GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Beeman Airguns => Topic started by: Back_Roads on February 07, 2021, 12:11:19 AM
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Had some extra barrels around from converting Daisy 880s to larger calibers, so got to thinking they may be a good match to a P-17, turns out to be a great barrel for modding a P=17. 8) The breach end has a nice lead so pellet inserting is much easier as an added bonus.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7709)
It is now shooting 177 caliber · 7.9 grains · Hollowpoint at 469 FPS, vs. stock at around 400 FPS ;D
[smg id=7708]
[smg id=7707]
It might be a tad more accurate too, at lest not worse ;)
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That looks pretty good, James
Do you use the full length of the barrel for cocking leverage?
Is any machining required to make the barrel swap?
Ed
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The barrel has nothing to do with the cocking, that happens from the rear of the action. Barrel length is limited to what I used due to the barrel hitting the trigger guard and not fully cocking, with out doing a few more mods anyway. If you call it machining then yes, I cut the barrel to length with a angle grinder with cutoff wheel, then chucked it up in my drill press, and used files to smooth out the ends. The added barrel length is a real speed boost for these pistols though.
There is a good thread here on GTA by Stalwart on many ways to mod these pistols.
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Another idea hit me last night so this am I set out to add the Daisy 880 shroud to the P-17 project to give things a more finished look.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7714)
PS I did have to sand some of the plastic off the bottom of the area where the larger barrel diameter was interfering with full cocking enough to let air in, only needed about 1/4" off to clear quick work with a Dremel and sanding drum.
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Looks good to me. I need to do that to my Marksman 2004. It would be nice to have a little more speed to anchor those stubborn sweetgum balls.
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James, im very interested in your 880 barrel swap to the p17... can you show a pic of how the barrel fits inside the pistol top? is it wide enough to be clamped down with the original bridge? does it line up with the back or is it higher (making it difficult to load...)?
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It is a snug fit pushing and turning from the front of the gun inward and one has to keep things aligned as one pushes and turns, at times i had to tap the barrel with a plastic mallet, the barrel lines right up to the exhaust port oring, I do polish the breach end to prevent o-ring damage, and slip a couple faucet washers drilled out to fit snug on the barrel to ensure a good seal, and I actually shim under the bridge clamp with a small oring or innertube like rubber to hold barrel firmer.
I will get some better photos and assembly tips by this weekend, I have just started another P-17 project tonight, darn things are addicting. ::)
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This one will take a few more mods to get it shooting, I may go as far as a small HPA charge to power it, I will have to read over some of RobM's tinkering's with his P-17s.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7717)
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SUBSCRIBED :)
This is my kind of thread.
Keep those mods coming and with pictures please.
Thanks
Ray
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I just read about a similar 880 barrel swap over on GEOs Airgun Universe web page, also been reading many of Stalwarts build threads, alot of tips and tricks, and what may not work to learn from as I go on these builds also.
I had to take a break reading to let it all sink in. tomorrow may bring some developments.
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That is so cool BR....you certainly have the tools and the talent...Ive got some 1322 barrels...could I make one work if I filled the transfer port...thanks
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Tonight I got the stock fitted and attached, shot a couple 7.9 gr. Benjamin HP over the crony, with just the carbon sleeved barrel, and disconnected safety, back draft mod, I got 397 FPS. I may not be getting full compression stroke, or the length of barrel is slowing the pellet down, More experimenting tomorrow, I want to figure a few things out before attaching the shroud. May add a scope and see how accurate it is tomorrow also.
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That is so cool BR....you certainly have the tools and the talent...Ive got some 1322 barrels...could I make one work if I filled the transfer port...thanks
From the looks of it a 1322 barrel will need thinned down to fit the P-17, I did an estimate on what it would cost to build the Back_Roads Sniper Edition, $35 for an 880, 30 for a P-17, 15 for the not sure what to call it CA compliant grip thingy, 10 for the 11mm to Weaver 10 degree doped mount" for long range, 30 for the high quality Optima scope. The rest is household scraps pretty much, so around $120. it can be yours LOL, Look out FX :)
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OK took some of my lunch break to fiddle with the Sniper Edition, mounted a cheap Hatsan scope, had to adjust down due to the drooper mount, I was shooting about a foot high but right on center, I just took this scope off my 2260, and swapped rings to weaver :o Many clicks brought it down right on target, the rest of the shots were a tiny ragged hole @20 yards 8)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7720)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7719)
I'm on the fence about the shroud, but will mess with it a bit tonight and make a decision ish tonight.
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OK took some of my lunch break to fiddle with the Sniper Edition, mounted a cheap Hatsan scope, had to adjust down due to the drooper mount, I was shooting about a foot high but right on center, I just took this scope off my 2260, and swapped rings to weaver :o Many clicks brought it down right on target, the rest of the shots were a tiny ragged hole @20 yards 8)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7720)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7719)
I'm on the fence about the shroud, but will mess with it a bit tonight and make a decision ish tonight.
Mr. James
Did you figure out the low FPS with the longer barrel yet?
369 fps is quite a bit slower than the factory barrel.
Really like where you've taken the 17 so far :)
Ray
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I just finished getting back to factory + FPS 7.9 Benjamin HP. 433 FPS, tips to follow...
"Mr. James
Did you figure out the low FPS with the longer barrel yet?
369 fps is quite a bit slower than the factory barrel.
Really like where you've taken the 17 so far :) "
Ray
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OK so I was down some FPS, figured I could get more if I had a fuller stroke, so I removed some material from the pistol grip to allow a longer compression stroke.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7725)
Here is the faucet washer seal mod, I have to use a drill in steps to open them up to fit the barrel snug.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7728)
Here are my results so far, I plan to take a little more out of the bottom of the pistol grip to get a little more travel on the piston. I am working on making the shroud movable to allow the most compression with out having to remove too much from the bottom of the grip.
So these speeds are with less than fulll compression stroke.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7723)
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Here are a few more pictures of it in different poses ;) ;)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7724)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7726)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7727)
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Had a chance to do some pellet testing last night, I went along the lines of what shoots in an 880, and also a P-17, found the shroud no matter what I tried so far, tossed pellets in all directions. :-\
I did however find a couple pellets that do work, still a few more to try, open to suggestions also 8) 7.7 gr. Beeman Coated Wadcutters Are doing pretty good at 440 FPS, but the last pellet I have tested is the 8.2 gr. Poly-Mag Short at 420 FPS, I may want to save those for pesting due to not available for sale as of late. So testing continues to find a readily available pellet, or one I have on hand that are still available now.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7732)
Beeman groups are between 28th and 29th, and next to the 6th. The poly mag group is on the 17th, the rest are test sighters, and the random spray with the shroud on.
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Here is a Chairgun Chart with the 8.2 gr. PolyMags.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7733)
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I was going to add a link of where to get the featureless grip, but everywhere I looked they were sold out, even 2nd hand :o
https://www.vcdefense.com/hammerhead-featureless-grip/ (https://www.vcdefense.com/hammerhead-featureless-grip/)
(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-0zh6b/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/496/1211/41KRI9SxnuL._SY355___51581.1517263908.jpg?c=2)
Well I guess I have hijacked my original thread long enough so I may just divert my attention back to the 11.5 " barreled pistol for tomorrow, that and who knows what else LOL
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primary reason for the loss in FPS after about 10 inches is that the tiny shot volume is not enough to push past the added friction in a longer barrel.. the tipping point , is somewhere in the 10-12 inch range.
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primary reason for the loss in FPS after about 10 inches is that the tiny shot volume is not enough to push past the added friction in a longer barrel.. the tipping point , is somewhere in the 10-12 inch range.
On the long barrel sniper, I am not taking in a full piston of air also, I was thinking about increasing the throw, but I am liking the reduced closing force ATM, But you are right about being over max barrel length, and the 11.5" barreled one is smoking close to 500 FPS and possibly faster with the right pellet.
I will be doing some with that today, as I have not gone much past initial build testing yet.
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you have inspired me... time to re barrel my p17... 12 in will do... 480 fps with 7.9 is my goal to make a SSP hunter...then ill figure out a stock solution... :)
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Happy to enable :)
They sure are an adaptable product, the stock on mine surprisingly is held on with a stainless self tapping screw run into the back of the grip, the plastic used is quite strong, at first I thought I would have to use a blind nut "or is that squirrel" to make a solid attachment, in time it may.
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It is a snug fit pushing and turning from the front of the gun inward and one has to keep things aligned as one pushes and turns, at times i had to tap the barrel with a plastic mallet, the barrel lines right up to the exhaust port oring, I do polish the breach end to prevent o-ring damage, and slip a couple faucet washers drilled out to fit snug on the barrel to ensure a good seal, and I actually shim under the bridge clamp with a small oring or innertube like rubber to hold barrel firmer.
I will get some better photos and assembly tips by this weekend, I have just started another P-17 project tonight, darn things are addicting. ::)
Mr. James
when you say the 880 barrel is a "good fit" for the P17 are you saying you DID NOT have to remove any plastic at the front of the gun to get the barrel to
fit up in the end? Also did you sand on the outside of the barrel any or did it just fit perfect by tapping it in there? Do you remember or could you measure the
O.D. of your 880 barrel?
Reason I ask is I have an older benjamin legacy pump gun that's built like a 2100 and was wondering if the barrel from it would work in my P17
without a lot of grinding :)
Thanks
Ray
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It is a snug fit pushing and turning from the front of the gun inward and one has to keep things aligned as one pushes and turns, at times i had to tap the barrel with a plastic mallet, the barrel lines right up to the exhaust port oring, I do polish the breach end to prevent o-ring damage, and slip a couple faucet washers drilled out to fit snug on the barrel to ensure a good seal, and I actually shim under the bridge clamp with a small oring or innertube like rubber to hold barrel firmer.
I will get some better photos and assembly tips by this weekend, I have just started another P-17 project tonight, darn things are addicting. ::)
Mr. James
when you say the 880 barrel is a "good fit" for the P17 are you saying you DID NOT have to remove any plastic at the front of the gun to get the barrel to
fit up in the end? Also did you sand on the outside of the barrel any or did it just fit perfect by tapping it in there? Do you remember or could you measure the
O.D. of your 880 barrel?
Reason I ask is I have an older benjamin legacy pump gun that's built like a 2100 and was wondering if the barrel from it would work in my P17
without a lot of grinding :)
Thanks
Ray
the 880 barrel is actually an almost perfect fit for that front p-17 hole where the barrel steps down. theyre within a few thou of each other.same goes for the 1077 barrel , and likely a few others.
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It is a snug fit pushing and turning from the front of the gun inward and one has to keep things aligned as one pushes and turns, at times i had to tap the barrel with a plastic mallet, the barrel lines right up to the exhaust port oring, I do polish the breach end to prevent o-ring damage, and slip a couple faucet washers drilled out to fit snug on the barrel to ensure a good seal, and I actually shim under the bridge clamp with a small oring or innertube like rubber to hold barrel firmer.
I will get some better photos and assembly tips by this weekend, I have just started another P-17 project tonight, darn things are addicting. ::)
Mr. James
when you say the 880 barrel is a "good fit" for the P17 are you saying you DID NOT have to remove any plastic at the front of the gun to get the barrel to
fit up in the end? Also did you sand on the outside of the barrel any or did it just fit perfect by tapping it in there? Do you remember or could you measure the
O.D. of your 880 barrel?
Reason I ask is I have an older benjamin legacy pump gun that's built like a 2100 and was wondering if the barrel from it would work in my P17
without a lot of grinding :)
Thanks
Ray
the 880 barrel is actually an almost perfect fit for that front p-17 hole where the barrel steps down. theyre within a few thou of each other.same goes for the 1077 barrel , and likely a few others.
Well you boys give me a hour or so and I'll let you know if the Legacy multi-pump .177 barrel is a good fit :)
I'm not 100% but I'd be willing to bet its the same as a 2100 barrel.
So you are all in agreement that 10 to 12 inches is the maximum allowed length before performance starts to suffer?
Ray
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Guess I'm reading slow lately, just found the post, the daisy 880 barrel is .298 OD give or take a fraction for cheap calipers. As far as fitting i just pushed while turning and lightly wiggling the barrel and it makes a darn snug fit, if it seems not to go one could take a drill bit in that size and hand turn it to open it up but I have not had to do that as of yet.
11.5 " allowed the gun to fully cock without modding the grip or trigger guard, though under the gun there needs to be some plastic removed to allow full travel, where the barrel pivots.
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Well I bit the bullet and went ahead with the new barrel install. Total length of new barrel is 11 1/4 inches from end to end. Still have about 1/8 of an inch before hitting the trigger guard when cocked. And NO the legacy barrel is not a direct fit. It measured .310 and the P17 barrel is like .273 at the smallest place, being the turned down part on the muzzle end that keeps the barrel from flopping around. After cutting my barrel to length and polishing the ends I had to drill out the hole for my barrel to go. No amount of twisting or hammering was gonna put a .310 barrel through a .273 hole :(
I got it in and had to adjust slightly for a good fit at the loading end by the exhaust port o-ring. But it's in there and doesn't hit the trigger guard when fully cocked.
Chrony readings coming soon.
Thanks
Ray
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8) Waiting to see your results. I just tried some Beeman silver bear.177 11. some gr., in both my p-17s, just shooting cans but did not crono yet but they do leave deeper dents ???
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I just got an Xisico 120d from Mike. It's only doing 250 fps with the 22 barrel but it's plenty accurate. I've got a spare 2240 barrel laying around that might get stuffed in there.
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Okay finally found time to run some pellets over the chrony after the barrel swap.
Using the same 7.9g CPHP's I used with the original barrel.
Original barrel = 390 fps
New longer barrel = 414 fps
The new barrel seems to be tighter fitting using these pellets so may have to try a few
different others to see if FPS changes or accuracy changes as well.
Pleased with the results so far.
Thanks
Ray
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Hmm yeah if the pellets seem too snug it may slow them down, also make sure you are not getting blow by on the breach seal.
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I've got a couple 2240 barrels around here. I may do some tinkering of my own.
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Hmm yeah if the pellets seem too snug it may slow them down, also make sure you are not getting blow by on the breach seal.
I thought of that. When I first got it back together and shot it a few times the upper side or top side of the breech seal seemed like it wanted to come out of its cutout each time I opened the gun. I thought at first it was the end of the barrel rubbing on it and trying to roll it out but now I'm thinking it may be blowby trying to push it out caused by the barrel not being snug enough up against it?
Didn't I read where you added a faucet washer or something to your barrel on the breech end to aid in sealing?
THanks
Ray
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Yes I drilled out 2 tapered faucet washers to be a snug fit to the barrel, and fit up to the breach tp oring. on one I think I shimmed with a small oring first to make the faucet washer sit just proud of the breach end of the barrel, and only rubber to rubber contact with the tp oring . The wider surface of the washer also seems to help with pellet loading.
Tip on keeping the barrel tight in the barrel clamp is a small piece of sandpaper to give it a gritty bite, or thin rubber like innertube works also.
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James, Do you have a picture of the two washer and o-ring set-up?
Thanks
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James, Do you have a picture of the two washer and o-ring set-up?
Thanks
I have my original idea pictured, just imaging that washer flipped tapered end facing the direction of pellet travel on both washers, oring in-between them may work as well also. you can see how I have the washer just past the end of the barrel.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=7728)
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Got it, Thanks
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Well I bit the bullet and went ahead with the new barrel install. Total length of new barrel is 11 1/4 inches from end to end. Still have about 1/8 of an inch before hitting the trigger guard when cocked. And NO the legacy barrel is not a direct fit. It measured .310 and the P17 barrel is like .273 at the smallest place, being the turned down part on the muzzle end that keeps the barrel from flopping around. After cutting my barrel to length and polishing the ends I had to drill out the hole for my barrel to go. No amount of twisting or hammering was gonna put a .310 barrel through a .273 hole :(
I got it in and had to adjust slightly for a good fit at the loading end by the exhaust port o-ring. But it's in there and doesn't hit the trigger guard when fully cocked.
Chrony readings coming soon.
Thanks
Ray
So if I wanted to turn down a 2240 barrel (.22 or .177) would I go to .273 or .298? Isnt the original barrel is thicker and turned down at the points of attachments? Always wondered about that because I'd like to get a little more out of the p17.
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Guys, if its of any help to you, I played extensively with improving power with increased barrel lengths on a HW40 and HW75 about 10 years ago.
My initial tests revealed that both guns hit a wall at approx 9 inches where diminishing returns started to take a real effect after a barrel of approx 8.5 inches. Seeing good gains going from 6.75 inches to 8.5 inches, giving me approx 40 fps and then dropping off this good rate of climb very rapidly. In the end, settling on 1.75 inch longer in the HW75 as it allowed me to not have the barrel protruding beyond the muzzle. (This gun have a none functioning void ahead of the barrel)
The HW40 saw a remarkably similar improvement, where again 8.5 inches seemed like a nice stopping point, because anymore only increased by approx 7 fps per inch thereafter...so I stopped.
I utilising a small off the shelf compensator to slip over the Inch it protruded from the muzzle of the gun...
440 fps typically with decent weight domes ...not bad.
You could probably add 10 fps to my above method for the P17 as had a slight edge in compression volume above these 2.
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(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=184110.0;attach=348945;image)
This should explain it for you.
I apologize for copying another posters picture and if that's not permitted please remove.
THanks
Ray
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BR
Curious as to how you connected the stock
Been stocking this platform since 2016 (according to the notes) and feel that the plastic at the “heel” of the “lower” IS NOT thick enough or strong enough for a setup like you show in the pics. Also have to say I never tried it either..... SO I hope my assesment is wrong :)
couple pics in the thread ( https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=166194.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=166194.0) ) show my mounting.
great to see others pushing the limit on these cool pistols!!
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(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=184110.0;attach=348945;image)
This should explain it for you.
I apologize for copying another posters picture and if that's not permitted please remove.
THanks
Ray
Nice work, reminding me of when i ran with the same sort of numbers when those 1377 barrels were always available for such tasks.
I just cut off ahead of the TP , faced and chamfered the end and took it from there
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BR
Curious as to how you connected the stock
Been stocking this platform since 2016 (according to the notes) and feel that the plastic at the “heel” of the “lower” IS NOT thick enough or strong enough for a setup like you show in the pics. Also have to say I never tried it either..... SO I hope my assesment is wrong :)
couple pics in the thread ( https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=166194.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=166194.0) ) show my mounting.
great to see others pushing the limit on these cool pistols!!
I ran a self tapper into the back of the grip, assuming that I was just going to make a locating hole and add a blind nut behind to make the final attachment point, to my surprise it has held firm, with normal use so far, but if one is a bit ham fisted I would go with the blind nut inside the grip.
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Not sure where you got the drawing, Ray,,, but that will certainly work. Drill/ream the muzzle to .398 to .400 or so and then secure the front of the barrel with a setscrew.
D/T'd 8-32 and use two setscrews (one on top of the other) so they are locked...
(https://i.imgur.com/KdjHuWG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4xJM5H7.jpg)
I've skinned this cat a few different ways but most of them started with a LW barrel for a 2300s. First thing is to part off the breech port:
(https://i.imgur.com/P0VOiBz.jpg)
A couple different designs...
(https://i.imgur.com/hcieO8l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QGzSKCO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hGULzLx.jpg)
And lastly, a modification to the lower frame...
(https://i.imgur.com/VNGsMcf.jpg)
That provides the clearance for the longer barrel at the end of the intake stroke.
All of the .177s barrels ended up at about 9.7" after the breech TP was removed. I did a .22 that was 11" (un-choked LW) that made nearly 4 fpe. Lots of fun..
(https://i.imgur.com/ayjDoJd.jpg)
But agree with Clarky, the biggest gains are in the first couple inches...
More (shameless plugs of) info here, and here:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=122164.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=122164.0)
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=166452.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=166452.0)
Wyo
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Not sure where you got the drawing, Ray,,, but that will certainly work. Drill/ream the muzzle to .398 to .400 or so and then secure the front of the barrel with a setscrew.
D/T'd 8-32 and use two setscrews (one on top of the other) so they are locked...
(https://i.imgur.com/KdjHuWG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4xJM5H7.jpg)
I've skinned this cat a few different ways but most of them started with a LW barrel for a 2300s. First thing is to part off the breech port:
(https://i.imgur.com/P0VOiBz.jpg)
A couple different designs...
(https://i.imgur.com/hcieO8l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QGzSKCO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hGULzLx.jpg)
And lastly, a modification to the lower frame...
(https://i.imgur.com/VNGsMcf.jpg)
That provides the clearance for the longer barrel at the end of the intake stroke.
All of the .177s barrels ended up at about 9.7" after the breech TP was removed. I did a .22 that was 11" (un-choked LW) that made nearly 4 fpe. Lots of fun..
(https://i.imgur.com/ayjDoJd.jpg)
But agree with Clarky, the biggest gains are in the first couple inches...
More (shameless plugs of) info here, and here:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=122164.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=122164.0)
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=166452.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?PHPSESSID=e954948fe94de2ab9cf24294ace04a00&topic=166452.0)
Wyo
Gary
Your the only guy I know who can get away with "shameless plugs" cause yours are always super detailed, informative and flat out remarkable most of the time.
Ray
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“flat out remarkable”.....
aint that the truth :)