GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: avator on January 16, 2021, 07:32:48 PM
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I thought I had already started a thread on this build but I couldn't find it so I guess I'll start again..
A few years ago I ended up with an SPA CP1 pistol. Some time later Mike at MRodAir came up with the stock and forearm kit to make it a carbine. Then the CP2 Master Blaster kit came out. This came with a long and short barrel and you could swap it from pistol to carbine. They were C02 guns. These SPA guns had the potential to become the next "lego" gun... IMO. And "tinker" I did.
Anyways... I was in a "tinker" mode a few weeks back and decided I wanted to convert a C02 pieces and parts pistol into a PCP pistol/carbine. I contacted our buddy WesBob up in Canada and he was happy to sell me what I needed.
The tube
The front half of the valve
The fill port, gauge and probe
And some various rings
Recent logistic issues really slowed deliverey.. I mean, to the point that I nearly forgot I had ordered these parts.
I was out getting muddy this morning at the ATV park and called Betty Lou to check in. She told me that I got a package from Canada. Took me a minute to remember what it was.
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Well, I got home this afternoon, scraped some of the mud off and headed for the tinker bench.
I gathered up the parts I had from the butchered CP1 and some CP2 stuff and went into assembly mode.
The tube from Wes took the upgraded adjustable trigger from the CP2.... nice, I have that.
I used the left handed breech and .177 barrel from the CP1. I also had a barrel band from the CP2 that gave me a weaver on the bottom for the bipod.... or whatever... light, laser.
I put it all together and put the air to it from one of my tanks..... WHOOSH... air coming from inside the gun. Yep, ya big dummy, you forgot to put the oring between the valve halves.
Tore it back down just knowing I was going to scrape orings up on the tube threads.... but I got lucky.
Put the air tank to it and viola... aired right up.
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Oh ya, pics or it didn't happen.....
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The Nikon P-223 scope is perfect for this little critter gitter.
The LDC shuts it right up and will get a flat black coat of paint.
It got dark on me but tomorrow will get some numbers and do some fine tuning.
Then we'll fine it's favorite food and check accuracy.
The worst thing about putting these things together is finishing them... then you start thinking about the next one... :-\
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So now you have a Bandit or PP800. I have some CP1’s, a PP800 and had a Bandit. SPA used the same hammer springs in all of them. I want to say all the TP’s were the same also. A bad/cheap decision on their part but it gives us lots of room to make the gun better. How they come out of the box a shot string looks like a tire going flat.
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Yep, zactly Frank.
The parts I got from Wes were PP880 stuff.
Tomorrow I'll get more into it... maybe more hammer spring and open that TP a bit.... we'll see once I get some numbers.
I'm happy with a 25yd accurate repeating .177 pistol carbine PCP.
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I got around 10 .177 mags. Shot count will also be what I'm after. Fill 'er up, grab a hand full of mags and head out. A buddy bottle and a pocket full of mags should give hours of fun.
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I’m trying to remember back when these pistols were a hot topic exactly what the main problem was. I think first off you have to be realistic with a short barreled .177 velocity. I would say sub 600fps. Then it’s dealing with too much spring and horrible hammer bounce. I believe once you get the spring under control and start to see somewhat of a bell curve, you can open the ports a little if the gun gets too slow. Some of us just wound up regulating ours. I get over 50 shots at 650fps with 7.3 pellets. My Altaros reg is set at 115b. Stock porting and a HDD.
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IIRC.. the issue was hard pellet loading and the breech bolt would snap off.
I dressed the leade for smoother pellet loading and I always close the bolt with my thumb on the back of it.
This one cycles pretty good.... no hang ups.
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I have a bunch of JSB 8.4 that I'm hoping work well.
Other than that, I got a boatload of .177 pellets to work with.
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Yeah the leade in those guns were pellet shredders. With that ironed out you can focus on air management. Have fun and good luck.
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TY Sir.
Fun is what it's all about.
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TY Sir.
Fun is what it's all about.
Bill, very interesting. Do you have the part numbers for all of the PP800 parts needed for this conversion?
Will these parts also fit the CP1's?
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Hey Bob... thanks for showing interest.
Yeah, I just looked and Wes didn't send me a packing list or I have lost it... :-\
Couple things...
First, I didn't order from a list. I called Wes and told him what I wanted to do. We talked about it and decided what I needed by part name and description. He gave me a price and I sent the money.
Secondly, I was left with the impression that these parts came from a stock PP800 so, he would need to order parts from China to replace them. I'm not sure how willing he is to do that continuously. You'll just want to call and speak to him. He's a great guy. Very "Mike Mellick" like only way younger... lol
As for the CP1...
The only issue there is the trigger group. The pin placement is different from the CP1 tube and the PP800 tube. You'll need the CP2 or the PP800 trigger parts. Everything else is interchangeable. My gun is a mix and match of all 3. Matter of fact, the front half of the valve is PP800 and the back half and guts are CP1.
As a courtesy to Wes, I'm not going to post what I paid. Like I said, these parts are not listed on his site for sale. However, I'm sure you can find the PP800 parts diagram and order the parts from China (or call Wes and get the part numbers). Shipping is slow and expensive from China.
Hope this helps... all questions are welcome.
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Ok, I went back in this morning...
The gun graciously held air all night... YAY !!
After processing the build overnight I couldn't help feeling like I may have scraped the barrel orings when I put the barrel back in the breech. I took it back apart and replaced them and was mindful of the TP alignment.
Next, that LDC is a tad oversized and I was afraid that poor alignment would result in pellet clipping. So, I cut a piece of blister pack plastic and made a round shim (insert). That worked great.
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I ran a mag and I'm getting hammer bounce. Not real bad but enough to address it.
After breakfast I'm gonna tinker with hammer spring. Might even look at a Bstaley oring mod. The poppet stem is way short so I'm not sure if it can be done.... maybe just one oring.
I have a butt load of springs to choose from.
Not going to open up the TP ports at this point.... lemme get some numbers first. Good news is, at some point I bought a sack of spare SPA parts from someone. Mainly valve parts and a couple TP ports. Just in case I go too big.... ;)
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Hold up.... I smell blueberry pancakes coming from the kitchen !!
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Cool outcome Bill. I thought when these guns came out there would be alot more Legoing going on with them, Seems to have fizzled out, and Crosman still the Leggo king, though FX became the high end Legos.
I have the .25 900, Diana chaser .22, and the PP750 .22 in my assortment, along with the .22 Dragonfly Pumper.
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I was all fired up on that Dragonfly when SPA announced it but, my desire for it fizzled as the wait time grew.
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Well, I did a bit of a shade tree mod to eliminate hammer bounce.
And remember kids, you CAN try this at home... 8)
I pulled the hammer spring out and dropped one oring down in the hammer. On top of that I dropped in a delrin (?) seal from a bleeder valve (spare from a compressor). Then the spring and finally the spring guide. Not sure which end of the spring the guide went it from factory but my sense tells me that the hammer would guide the spring at the hammer end. We would want the spring to have support outside of the hammer. At least that's the way it is with springer guns.
I have rounded up 6 mags. If my gozindas are right, I can shoot all 54 shots on a fill..... we'll see. You math heads can figure volume times pressure divided by shot count if you want. I have better ways to induce brain pain.
Either way, I like what I am seeing and I don't think numbers (when I get them) are going to make me want to change anything. It will most likely be what it is.
Sight in time. ;)
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Because of the tiny poppet stem and the way too long hammer spring, I used a bicycle inner tube patch instead of orings. Just cut a hole in it for the poppet stem, trim it to diameter, then peel and stick. Then I experimented with shimming the valve return spring with a washer or two. All the guns, from the CO2 CP1 to the HPA models waste way too much air out the barrel. Have to tighten things up.
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Good idea.... thanks
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Well now.... 30yds in a 10mph cross wind is not cooperating.
Given that... of what I've tried so far... CPHP at 7.9 are doing much better than anything heavier.
A bowl of home made taco dip and a bag of Doritos has slowed my progress.
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Frank.. at the risk of displaying my lack of tuning knowledge, I have a question.
What affect will a lighter valve spring have?
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Beautiful crisp morning out there. Sun shining bright and 0 wind.
I found what may be one of it's favorite pellets and it comes as somewhat of a surprise due to it's weight.
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I painted up the LDC with the only black rattle can I had on hand. Unfortunately it was gloss... not a fan of gloss. So, I let it cure for about an hour and ruffed it up. Gave me that warm and fuzzy well worn feeling... 8)
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Got my target set out to about 19 - 20 yds. I didn't hit it with the range finder.... yet.
Hey, these things take time... ;D
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Interesting....
This is why I asked about lighter valve spring.....
From 200 bar down to 100 bar.
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Just talked with Wes in Canada. What a guy. The hammer spring in the PP800 is much heavier than the CP1. He said he meant to send me one. I never ordered one so why would he? The thought never crossed our minds.
Anyhow... one is on e the way now.
Meantime, I'm a happy plinker.
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My Diana Bandit and mrodair Varmit PCP have the same hammer spring. All my Diana Chaser have weaker springs for running co2. I was getting bout the same numbers with a Chaser spring in my Bandit. Working on tuning my down to sub5 fpe. Working on keeping the pellet in the sparrow. And keeping the pellet in 1/2" cedar fencing.
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Frank.. at the risk of displaying my lack of tuning knowledge, I have a question.
What affect will a lighter valve spring have?
I’m sorry for abandoning this topic. The last thing you need with a short barrel is a weaker valve return spring. With the bulbous hammer in those guns, you want to shorten the dwell. Either lighter hammer or close that valve quicker by shimming the valve spring. That’s what I did. But I didn’t go shimming crazy. Just a thin washer or two made a difference. This winter if I run out of projects, I may revisit the hammer and put it in my lathe an lighten it. I lightened a hammer on my Kral Jumbo in increments and wow, that gun is a whole different gun.
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It's all good.. I got the HPA hammer spring coming...
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I just looked at your string. I wasn’t logged in before and couldn’t see it. You are still climbing in velocity at shot 54. That’s a good problem to have. When you swap springs, but control yourself from changing anything else, let’s see what that exact same string looks like. I’m curious. But it will be good data for the next step. One change at a time is key.
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That's a nice looking carbine. I've got a .25 pp800 coming from Wes. It's supposed to be delivered tomorrow. I've already talked to a buddy of mine about making a stock for me. Can't wait to tinker with it and turn it into a little thumper.
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I just looked at your string. I wasn’t logged in before and couldn’t see it. You are still climbing in velocity at shot 54. That’s a good problem to have. When you swap springs, but control yourself from changing anything else, let’s see what that exact same string looks like. I’m curious. But it will be good data for the next step. One change at a time is key.
That's exactly the plan... I benched it and moved on to other things in the meantime.
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Someone once called me a bit 'chatty'. What an understatement that was !
I got the spring from Wes in the mail and scanned back my posts to bring this topic back to continue on it....
10 pages of MY posts back in 5 short days... :o
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Anywhich....
Like I said, the PP800 spring came in the mail from Wes today...
I got home from work and landed in the recliner for a couple more posts before I hit the gun room... After 'chatting' for 2 hours, I made it to the gun room... ::)
I stuffed the new spring in and put it back together. Loaded a mag and stepped out back. I had left the air pressure about half full in the gun and it was right where I left it..... 5 days ago.
I aimed downrange in the semi darkness of the yardlights.
BANG !!
Oh Yeah ! This is gonna be a fun one.
Too dark and late to do much testing but you can bet I'll be all over it in the morning.
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Ended up going to a buddy's ATV park yesterday for a very large event.
So this morning I got around 4am and put the coffee on. After Betty Lou and Rambo got up I headed for the gun room.
First on the list was filling my 30min tank from 3k to 4300. That went well and took about 10min with the temp rising to 134f and the 5gal tank water climbing from 72f to 80f.
I pulled the hammer spring back out of the "CP800" (for lack of a better description) and clipped 1 coil off. Then I bent and dressed that end of the spring. I would guess I reduced the length by 3/16?.
I got the shooting bench all set up with the laptop and chrono. Mags are filled and ready to go. Gonna finish this coffee and smoke and hit the shower.
Then I'll get some numbers and see where we are.
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Snowing and freezing here so I will be checking to see what your results are.
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Frank,
I put the PP800 spring in it and only got 2 mags so I knew it was shooting too hot for my purpose.
So I clipped a coil before I even went to the chrono.
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Nope, Nope, Nope.... I got work to do...
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I'm gonna coil bind set that spring before I cut any more off.
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Must be set. Coil bind didn't reduce it any to speak of..... Time to clip another coil.
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Yeah, but look at that first number. A short barreled pcp pistol shooting 798fps. Pistol sales will soar! Until a guy gets it home and tries to sight it in. It took a year but that’s how the Bandit finally earned its black eye. It can be fixed, but we have to be happy with the velocity in which that occurs. It’s fun for some and a return label for others.
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I’m gonna guess that when you get that first shot to be around 550fps, we are going to see a workable bell curve. But I won’t bet money on it. Just a hunch.
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How about 666 and a workable bell?
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Mind you.. that's a 10.49 Barracuda Hunter pellet. ;)
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2.5 to 3 coils off the spring.
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I kinda like a 10 to 13 fpe 20 shot .177 pistol..... ;D
OK, call it 18 shots.... that's 2 full mags.
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Would you go another half coil?
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That’s the million dollar question. Once you cut it off, it won’t grow back. Those 10 grainers are making use of the gun still being slightly overpowered. With such a small tube, I completely understand trying to work with a 3,000psi fill.
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This is when having 5 springs at your disposal comes in handy. Go too far? Oops, just grab another spring and keep testing.
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.... or shim.
I cut another half off.... we'll see. :-\
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Not much change but I think I'm at a threshold and I'm gonna leave it.
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I'm gonna do some accuracy shooting, find it's favorite food. If that turns out to be a big weight difference I'll check the numbers again.
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If you have time, let’s see a string with a 8.44 or 7.9. Something lighter. Let’s see what effects the pellet weight has on the curve.
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Got it.... hang tight....
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7.9 Crosman HP...
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That's a little hot.
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Bill
Very nice string, I am following along......... I have been looking at one of those pistol/rifle combo's also. ;)
I wonder if this will work in the Disco also?
3000psi fill down to approx psi??
Thanks,
Don
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Dang, I wish that poppet was long enough for a couple orings.... :-\
I don't want to hack into the stock for an SSG.
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Thanks Don..
3k down to around 1500.
I'm sure I'm getting some bounce... can't really hear it though.
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These guns are tricky to get a decent curve from. I threw in the towel on my .177 and put a reg. in it. 50 shots for 650fps.
My .25 gets about 8 shots in a pretty tight group down range, but the ES is not tight at all.
Good effort so far!
I think if it were possible, I'd try making a delrin hammer or something of the sort.
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Yeah, I don't have a lathe and my drill press/file skills are lacking.... lol
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Here is a little more info that may or may not make a difference.
Valve= back half, poppet and spring are CP2. Front half is PP800.
CP2 Hammer.
PP800 HS w/3ish coils clipped.
CP2 spring guide.
CP2 TP.
CP1 Reciever, bolt and barrel. (LH)
PP800 Tube and fill assy. w/gauge.
CP2 trigger group.
CP2 barrel band w/pic rail for legs.
And somebody's moderator... I got no clue. It came in a trade along the road.
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My next step would be a smaller TP. I know, I know, in the pcp world that’s almost profanity but it might be the key to stretching out that curve.
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My next step would be a smaller TP. I know, I know, in the pcp world that’s almost profanity but it might be the key to stretching out that curve.
Yup, considering the tube size....
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Here's my position....
I got more guns than any man needs... maybe not as many as any man wants... lol
But, I did this one with RV'ing/camping in mind.
A compact little pistol/carbine to sit around the campground and pop small targets without offending or drawing too much attention from other campers. With the 30min scba 4500psi tank I get a boatload of fills. 6 mags will give me 3 fills of shooting before a reload... as it were.
And at 10 to 12 fpe, I can fend off a zombie sqwizzle apocalypse.
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JSB Diabolo 8.44 are proving to be acceptably accurate. They do beat out the 10.49 and the 7.9.
Well within campsite paintball shooting range.
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Oh gees.... Betty Lou just stepped out the back door to the shooting bench.
Hey, that's a cute little gun, lemme see that.
I fear I may have lost this one.... ???
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Yeah, I don't have a lathe and my drill press/file skills are lacking.... lol
I'm there with you, lol. But maybe you could just get a cylinder of delrin that is the correct diameter? Most all you'd need to do is thread it, and run a bolt thru for a cocking pin. Then remove upper threads and polish the bolt. I recon it might need a steel striker after a while, though. Not sure if the poppet would create an indentation over time. I think it would be doable with basic tools, though if you could find the cylinder.
Oh gees.... Betty Lou just stepped out the back door to the shooting bench.
Hey, that's a cute little gun, lemme see that.
I fear I may have lost this one.... ???
uh oh, lol
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Well since you seem to like to tinker, I just went down and turned you a smaller TP on my lathe. The stock CP is 9/64. I made this one 7/64. That gives you and your drill press the 1/8 bit if you want to go bigger but stay under the factory size. PM me your address and I will drop it in the mail tomorrow.
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I'll have a look around work.. we got all kinds of stuff.
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Well since you seem to like to tinker, I just went down and turned you a smaller TP on my lathe. The stock CP is 9/64. I made this one 7/64. That gives you and your drill press the 1/8 bit if you want to go bigger but stay under the factory size. PM me your address and I will drop it in the mail tomorrow.
Awesome...
PM incoming...
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I love this place and the fellowship.
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It will be in the mail tomorrow. I always felt guys went the wrong direction with these pistols because most can’t help themselves but to chase power beyond a certain platforms capabilities. Then they have to live with a horrible string. Maybe a smaller TP isn’t the way to go but we will find out now. I put a smaller TP in my buddies Xisico unregulated rifle because he lives in a neighborhood and doesn’t need to send 18grs of lead at warp speed. Very good results when that TP backed the gun down to 800fps.
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I've never messed with TP sizes for tuning.
I've always just went with the spring length and the orings.
I'm not a power monger. I prefer the shot count.
Might even take another whack at that spring after we see what the smaller TP does.
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It'll probabaly help some, but in my experience it's not THE answer. But it might be part of the answer. Either way, you won't know till you try! Coupled with a lighter HST, you might get a very flat curve.
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Over the last year or so I have changed my approach. I take what a gun will give me and try to fine tune it. If I need more power, I buy a more powerful gun. Guns have parameters. You have a Bandit but want more, buy a PRod. Have a Prod but need more, buy a Leshiy. All these guns are great fun, accurate and reliable guns if you stay within what the platform will give you. When you go outside the parameter, they get whacky, temperamental and inefficient. I will get off my stump now.
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I may visit this mod as well... ;)
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=182687.msg156082122#msg156082122 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=182687.msg156082122#msg156082122)
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Over the last year or so I have changed my approach. I take what a gun will give me and try to fine tune it. If I need more power, I buy a more powerful gun. Guns have parameters. You have a Bandit but want more, buy a PRod. Have a Prod but need more, buy a Leshiy. All these guns are great fun, accurate and reliable guns if you stay within what the platform will give you. When you go outside the parameter, they get whacky, temperamental and inefficient. I will get off my stump now.
I have stated time and time again on this forum.
If the gun I am holding at any given time is not up to the task at hand I will simply go in the house and get one that is.
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Like Dallas mentioned, the hammer might need to visit Weight Watchers. You can feel how heavy it is in all the guns, CO2 or HPA. It’s actually disruptive to the shot cycle. But one step at a time. Glad you’re a patient man Bill. I have been guilty of making two changes at a time and being unsure of which one was beneficial.
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I used to build custom PCs back in the day...
It was the same deal.... bigger and faster. We even water cooled them...
What? Water in a computer? Is you CRAZY?
I knew a guy that built a clear computer case... he literally had live fish fish swimming in it.
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That’s funny. But I believe it.
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Before shipping the TP off and while my CO2 pistol was apart, I figured I would try it. With the smaller TP the gun is almost 20fps faster and has a smaller ES. What we all have to take into consideration is who built the gun. SPA. Not the sharpest tools in the shed within the airgun industry. Like I’ve said before, put a big TP in it, show a high advertised speed and guys will buy it. Now my CO2 gun is not operating at 3,000psi. Let’s see how Bills gun does with more realistic unregulated porting. If I ever decide to start shooting my 2 CP1’s again, they are both getting smaller TP’s.
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It seems if you squeeze the air charge a bit before entering the barrel, you can increase velocity. That's just fluid dynamics at work. If the charge is inadequate for the port size, it will move lazily. My FX gun dumps into a .30 bore before being squeezed back down to .22 again. Pretty sizeable increase in speed there.... AND if you can smooth the transition, you get bonus points.
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Sorry guys.... got involved in some Betty Lou stuff.... food to be exact...
Thanks again... we'll revisit it when the port arrives.
Now we're into areas that I know nothing about... ;)
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Received the new TP from Frank (TY kind Sir).
I don't know what I was thinking last Sunday... I gassed the gun up at the end of the shooting session all the while knowing I wasn't going to shoot it again until I put the TP in.... :-\
My next dumb move was to start breaking the gun down without remembering I did fill it.
The high pressure in the tube had the TP 'locked' into the gun so, I had to put the receiver back on and dry fire the pressure off by pulling the bolt back and releasing it several times... like a lot of several times... to the point I wore a blister on my index finger.
Why didn't I just put the trigger back in? Because if I did, I wouldn't have had the experience of my third idiot move.... :o
Got the gun all back together and went off to lick my wounds.
Hopefully Saturday or Sunday, depending on work schedule, we'll get to fill it up and do some more testing.
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Oh Hey !!! I just remembered why I filled the gun last Sunday..
I wanted to check for slow leaks.
Trust me, there were no leaks... It was totally full... lol
I did however find the two barrel orings damaged again... good thing I ordered 47,002 of them... ???
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Had a few minutes before work this morning so I trodded off to the gun room. I used a section of foam pipe insulation as a cheek riser and stretched an elastic shotgun stock cover over it. The void in the stock is a perfect place to store my 6 mags. The shotgun shell holders on the passenger side of the cover provide places to store plastic vials of various pellets. And the coolest thing is... when you remove the stock to convert it to a pistol you will see a hole in the grip to store a C02 cart... this is a perfect place to store the fill probe.
A padded backpack can carry gun (broken down) and 30min scba tank.
The swivel stock screw makes for a great single point shoulder strap.
All this makes it a very versatile RV/Camp/ATV gun.
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Let's just start out with...
It's cold and damp out here !!
I'm under the roof of the deck and I got some hot coffee so I guess I'm good.
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Pressing on...
As reported, I got the custom TP from Frank... Thank you Sir.
Topped the gun off and ran a few 7.9 CPHP 7.9 over the chrono.
I did nothing more than install the TP....
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Refilled the gun and switched to the 8.44 JSB domes...
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Frank..
I have a couple spare valve body back halves. Think I'm gonna steal your inner tube buffer idea on one of them.
Besides, that will give me time to warm up a bit..... lol
BBS.
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Poop! I should have made that TP smaller. My bad.
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It's all good.. I kinda like where we are.
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BTW.. those two spare valve bodies I have are wrong. The valve retainer holes and the stock screw holes are reversed. That's ok too because my glue wasn't gonna hold the rubber on... :o
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Good news is.. I had the gun stripped down and the valve out twice and I still have no leaks... lol
That's a first for me.
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Been following this thread while tinkering on my own also. I did the pp 800 .25 cal. to Diana chaser stock/grip switch, and was thinking of uses for the spare CO2 slot, and bingo Bill figured it out for me, yes nice place to stash a fill probe 8)
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Sending you another TP with a slight twist on the design. Let’s see what effects it has and go from there. I think that once we find the TP size that shows promise, then it might be time to look at the valve. At least with having some extra TP’s, you have some more tuning tools.
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Thanks again Frank.. I insist you let me at least pay the shipping.
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Nah, that’s ok. It’s not like I’m shipping a rifle.
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Well, if you need anything just give a yell.
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Well, tracking showed the new tp estimated delivery was to be Friday (today). Betty Lou wasn't feeling well and never made it to the mailbox yesterday. Apparently it arrived a day early and it's out in the mailbox now..... lol
Anyhow, it's here and we'll get it in the gun and continue testing tomorrow.
I'm thinking I might put a ring of hot glue on the back of the valve to act as a buffer. Once on I can adjust the thickness.
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Ended up with a few extra minutes this morning. Tore the gun down and installed the newest TP from Frank.
At this point I could probably do it in my sleep.... :o
Is it my imagination or is there a tall step and a low step? If so, does the low step go up? I can't remember the orientation, if there is one, from original.
Either way, I put, what appeared to me, the low step up. Musta done it right because I can't detect any leaking.
I also decided to do all further string testing with a tin of Crosman .177 10.5 Piranhas. None of my guns like these pellets and 10.5 is most likely the weight of the pellets I will be using in this gun.... Ultra mags or H&N Hunters.
So, why waste the good ones on testing?
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I built the TP with a tapered hole. Big hole goes down towards the valve, little hole to the barrel. The step I think you’re referring to was to remember it’s orientation, which I already forgot. I think little step is down. Don’t worry it won’t leak. It’s OAL is within spec.
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lol... I didn't even notice the taper.
I'll pull it back apart and check... like I said, I can do it in my sleep now.
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Story of my life...
If there is a 50/50 chance of getting something right or wrong I'll get it wrong every time.
I had the TP in upside down.... :o
Flipped it and put the gun back together.
I gotta say, as many times as I've had this thing apart and back together, I'm simply amazed it ain't leaking.
I got it gassed up and sitting. Gotta make a store run so I'll double check for leaks and get the stuff out for testing when we get back.
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Dang, it's damp and chilly out here.....
Got back from the store and the gun appears to be holding air well.
Loaded up 2 mags of 10.5 Piranhas and gave it a go.
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Looks like we flattened that bell out pretty good.
I'm good with 2 mags per fill and an average of about 10 fpe.
Pretty awesome 25yd. camp gun.
10 fpe with a 10.49 H&N Hunter pellet at 25yds. Should keep the zombie sqwizzels at bay.
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Speaking of H&N Hunters...
Lemme warm my fingers up a bit and we'll load a couple mags and sight it back in.
BRB
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I don’t have many nice things to say about these pistols but the first time I took one apart, I admired the transfer port. It’s a beefy TP with large orings and large nice fitting breech block. After working on many Crosmans where everything is tiny, TP swaps were easy on the SPA’s.
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I wouldn't have even ventured into this if I hadn't kinda fallen into these two pistols. There wasn't anything special about the CP1 or CP2 that impressed me enough to pay full price for them. I got the CP1 in a deal and Mike sent the CP2 kit to Betty Lou as a gift.
I really like what came out if them. Also looking forward to shooting it in it's pistol form with the holographic red dot.
I totally appreciate your contributions and guidance.
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Next time I tear it down I'm going to put all new fresh orings in it just for gits n shiggles.
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The little carbine will get it's first outing for it's intended purpose today.
We're loading up the RV and ATVs and headed to the trails for the weekend.
Got my 30 min scba tank topped off and the kit ready to go.
I got a gallon zipper bag full of green paintballs and a couple bags of army men for targets.
A month or so when we were there I gave the owner's 6 year old grandson (Carter) a classic metal/metal 880.
Maybe Carter and I can hook up for some plinking fun.
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Enjoy the weekend. Hope the gun meets your goals.
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Thanks Frank... I'm sure it will.
I really want to thank you for the interest and contributions.
Oh, and Don... I didn't mean to ignore your generous offer on the delrin hammer. I appreciate it.
I think we are good where we are.
I hope readers get inspired and do some of this simple stuff of their own.... and share it with us... that's kinda why we're here... :P
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I have a CP1...never even shot a mag thru it...just used single shot tray....but it is the stepchild in my collection.
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Update..
There were just too many people at the ATV park for me to feel comfortable busting out a gun and start shooting.
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Bumping..
A new camo shirt and pants coming Saturday..
Stay tuned...
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Bumping..
A new camo shirt and pants coming Saturday..
Stay tuned...
Muwahahaha...awaiting some pics when your lovely new camo stock is on. ;)
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I guess you and me both are waiting for Saturday... ;)
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My black one was supposed to be delivered today, but alas I got the arriving late notice on the tracking this morning.
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Got mine today. It fits me a lot better than the wood stock. I like it.
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Wow, time is fun when you're having flies.... I reckon.
During our recent move I noticed a pistol case and I took a peek inside.
Well, there you are.... I closed it back up promising myself I would get back to it once we settled in.
Today I went home for lunch and thought about it again. And there it was, all snug in it's case in the corner of the mancave.
I got it out and attached the stock, slipped in a mag and let one rip out the back door.
DANG, I forgot how loud this little guy was.
Welp, 10 days shutdown coming beginning Friday and the weather promises to be in the mid 70's with plenty of sun.
This one will be moving to the top of the list to play with.
I'll get those pictures I forgot to take... ;)
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ARISE DEAD THREAD!!!
How did you all end with this carbine? I am having really poor performance with mine, about 200 fps.
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Mine is a .25. It will push my 22 grain wadcutters just over 550 fps.
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To be honest.... Crosman messed everything up with the drop of the C362. It's still sitting on the bench side table patiently waiting for me.
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To be honest.... Crosman messed everything up with the drop of the C362. It's still sitting on the bench side table patiently waiting for me.
Golddamnit! I got a .22 Chaser with a Safepac charged to almost 3k and it's pituing out pellets. ;D
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To be honest.... Crosman messed everything up with the drop of the C362. It's still sitting on the bench side table patiently waiting for me.
Golddamnit! I got a .22 Chaser with a Safepac charged to almost 3k and it's pituing out pellets. ;D
It might be the hammer spring. Mine has the same one that's in my Stormrider.
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To be honest.... Crosman messed everything up with the drop of the C362. It's still sitting on the bench side table patiently waiting for me.
Golddamnit! I got a .22 Chaser with a Safepac charged to almost 3k and it's pituing out pellets. ;D
It might be the hammer spring. Mine has the same one that's in my Stormrider.
I cant find a Stormrider spring, any ideas?
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My best guess would be wesbob at Airgun Archery Fun. He built my .25 Bandit.
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My best guess would be wesbob at Airgun Archery Fun. He built my .25 Bandit.
"Out Of Stock" :(
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Just a bump...
Today is a mandatory work day so I put in for 4 hours vacation time. I'll get out of here at noon.
The recent influx of pumpers has put this little 'in your face' project on the back burner.
Altho I have a few other things i want to do with the C362 pumpers, I'm going to go back to this one this afternoon.
It's sunny out but breezy and cool. I will fire up the bottle heater and open the side door to the mancave and spend some time with this one. (Lack of a cool nicname yet).
First order of business is to locate the holographic red dot I have stashed away someplace for it.... by 'stashed' I mean, I have no idea where I put it during the recent move :-\
Anyways, we'll get to it in a couple short hours.
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I’m trying to remember back when these pistols were a hot topic exactly what the main problem was. I think first off you have to be realistic with a short barreled .177 velocity. I would say sub 600fps. Then it’s dealing with too much spring and horrible hammer bounce. I believe once you get the spring under control and start to see somewhat of a bell curve, you can open the ports a little if the gun gets too slow. Some of us just wound up regulating ours. I get over 50 shots at 650fps with 7.3 pellets. My Altaros reg is set at 115b. Stock porting and a HDD.
On my cr600 same as cp2/chaser etc. I did the Bstaley o ring mod after doing all internal clean up and shims , 2stage mod, transfer port cdeburred and chamber smoothed and polished, it gets 50 shots between 490-500 then drops off a ledge. The debouce from the bstaley was a drastic improvement.
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That poppet stem is pretty short. What size oring did you use?
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That poppet stem is pretty short. What size oring did you use?
I failed with the B Staley mod... No fire with 4, 300 fps with 3, 500 fps with 2, 1 just hung up, 800 fps without any but there is an audible bounce. Perhaps a section of thin walled silicone tubbing?
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Yep, if you read up you'll see what Frank did.
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If I remember... the hammer is shaped as so and oring will slip over the end of it making it null. The other issue would be that the hammer drags the oring back with it when the gun is cocked. Memory ain't what it used to be... :o
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If I remember... the hammer is shaped as so and oring will slip over the end of it making it null. The other issue would be that the hammer drags the oring back with it when the gun is cocked. Memory ain't what it used to be... :o
Correct, making it awful for that mod. Hmmmm, maybe I'll turn another hammer and give it a flat face them I can use silicone square shoulder rings. ;D
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Picked up a little bling...
These are so much better than the SPA mags.
No more fiddling with rotating that plastic cover.
The flip out SST is nice as well.
The hunter orange is a great addition to the new RealTree camo stock.
Hope to get some time soon to post some more updates.
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Search in YouTube for "CP2 Bolt Saver".
Awesome upgrade for the CP2 that will prevent your bolt from snapping and also
make the pellet loading much smoother!
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The way I got a bstaley stack to work was by chucking up the hammer and using an emery wheel in the Dremel to abrade the nose down just a bit until it would pass through the O-rings. On my original CP1-M, the shot count and total energy almost doubled.
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The way I got a bstaley stack to work was by chucking up the hammer and using an emery wheel in the Dremel to abrade the nose down just a bit until it would pass through the O-rings. On my original CP1-M, the shot count and total energy almost doubled.
That's a good idea. I might tear my Bandit down and do that. I'm using a couple of shims on the face of the valve body to limit how much the valve opens. It doesn't help much but did give me a couple of extra consistent shots.
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Photo markups of the hammer prep:
(https://i.imgur.com/1WVL9Cp.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Fyo66rt.jpg)
And the way I dealt with hard chambering:
(https://i.imgur.com/g61F87K.jpg)
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Thank you! I think I'll give it a try.
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Good stuff Jason, thanks for adding.
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Jason, thanks for the suggested upgrades. You just encouraged me to dust off my CP2 and installed these mods.
These are great and fun guns to shoot, now that warmer weather is around the corner.
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Well, it's been over a year since this little monster was created. It was a fun project and I appreciate all who contributed.
Recently I revisited Willie G. Stubbs and His Twisted Sister, 2 Crosman 2240 stubbies in .22 and .177 respectively. It seemed to have sparked a run of stubby creativity... or maybe it was just cooincidence. But several have built them recently. These are basically tool shed builds that anyone with a Credit card, Paypal account the prowess to seek out discounts and deals online and a few home shop tools can put together and have fun creating and shooting on the cheap. After all, ain't that what it's all about?
That said, if you followed this thread or are reading it for the first time you'll see that the Crosman 2240 is not the only fun little project gun. These SPA guns can be just as rewarding to 'lego'. However, they have a couple advantages over the 2240 platform. One of them being that they are repeaters. I mean, think about it... who wants to single load a pistol?
Another being year round use for you Northern folks. The 2240 is a C02 gun. C02 is affected by cold temperature and I don't recommend converting a roll stamped 2240 tube to HPA. Yes, you can add an HPA kit if you like. But if you're a little more adventurous the SPA CP1 was a really fun and rewarding project for me.
Sure you can buy one of these PCP pistol/carbine guns already made but what if you already have a CP1 or CP2 and the driven desire to 'tinker'?
Anyways, like I said... it's been over a year so I thought I would play a little "Where are they now?"
So here it is today..... the SPA Cp1/CP2/MrodAir AirMax Target Master/SPA PP800 backyard critter gitter.
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Happy tinkering.
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Those look to be fun, it was a toss up between them and qb, but the qb series won as I like blued/ wood best, been learning about those recently. Bought a 79 and a guantlet, no mods yet just a lot of reading lol.
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I recently gave a co worker a Diana Chaser, extra barrel and scopes, he has been getting the tinker bug slow but sure :)
I did refer him to GTA today for mods for his gun, as he developed some valve lock in the record temps this late week.
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Moving forward...
As I stated in the "What arigun related did you do today" here:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=148550.msg156454809#msg156454809 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=148550.msg156454809#msg156454809)
I had the need for a short lightweight critter gittin PCP. One that I could mount a 2.5 lb. optic on and not have to drag it around behind me. This gun seemed to fit the bill... almost. As you can imagine, this gun is loud.
I normally don't have a problem with loud but in this case, I need to be a bit more stealth for possible kin folk lurking nearby. But as you can see... not much barrel sticking out there to put anything on. I needed another few inches.
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Some years ago I got an AirMax Master Blaster (Target Blaster) pistol/carbine kit from MrodAir. The pistol went through several changes including being a donor for this gun.
The long barrel side of it has spent this whole time as a carbine C02 gun rarely ever used. So I snagged the barrel off of it and took it to the chopping block (4" grinder with a cut off wheel). I never measured it, I just whacked it off where it looked good enough. Then I cleaned up the end and put a crown on it with a drill bit and a Dremel with a fine cone grinding tool. After that I polished things up.
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Next was to try it out and see how that workbench crown did for accuracy.... bingo... right on the money.
Now to quiet things down...
I was sure I had something here that night fit without leaving another gun nekid. I found what looks to be a Buck Rail threaded silencer in a drawer... I don't even know where it came from. What I do know is the screw on deal wasn't going to work.
Ok, here's a first for me.. the threads in that silencer were actually a helicoil. Once I got ahold of the end of it with needle nose it came out like a stretched spring. And with just the right drill bit I was able to open the hole just enough that I needed to tap in onto the barrel with a rubber mallet.
Another accuracy test with a red dot on the gun to check for any sighs of clipping and to see how well things got quieted down.
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Ok so, accuracy is still there, no signs of clipping and even though it's not the quietest gun I own it's suitable for my needs.
BY the way... the skies opened up and the thunder, lightning and rains came. Our power has gone off and come back on 3 times now. So I don't have pics yet but I will soon. I also need to find my CARM mags.. I'm sure they were left on other guns.
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WOW... that was a gully washer!!
The sun is back out after several hours of solid rain. We lost power a total of 6 times and the longest episode was just over 10 minutes. After the 3rd time I told Betty Lou to stop running around resetting clocks until we knew it was over for sure. Luckily I had the Nascar race on record at FUBO. Bad thing is, we are expected to get severe thunder storms overnight tonite.
After the rain stopped I slipped out to the Red Shed to snap a sneak peek pic of the carbine barrel and silencer.
Forgot to put the barrel back on but that's no biggie... it ain't done 'til it's done ;)
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Do you still have the original "muzzle brake"/sight holder that comes with the CP1? It should have a sight blade screwed in along with a set screw. I think Buck Rail sells a quietener for that brake.
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Do you still have the original "muzzle brake"/sight holder that comes with the CP1? It should have a sight blade screwed in along with a set screw. I think Buck Rail sells a quietener for that brake.
Yes I do but you can't use them once you cut and crown the barrel. The stock ends of SPA barrels are machined for them. ;)
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You might want to break the news to Twisted Sister. That hood rat ran off and left my man Willie G. A lonely man.
He wandered the the Red Shed all hours of the night Until one night he heard a sound. Over and over and over again. He smelled the distict perfume in the night air... C02. Willie G. would know that fragrance anywhere because he, himself wears the men's cologne version of it.
Out of the darkest corner where the workbench sits, a form begain to take shape....
Long and slender and dark as midnight. Now Willie G. generally likes his girls smaller but he was on the rebound. He could feel her red dot on him but couldn't quite see where it was coming from, almost as if it were a holograph. ;)
Then he heard that sound again "Lil' Bertha.. Lil' Bertha.. Lil' Bertha". And finally, there she was in all her cut and crowned glory.
Willie G. couldn't beleive his pistol scope. The gun Gods sent him.... a replacement.
Willie G. asked "What is your name"?
She replied "Lil' Bertha.. Lil' Bertha.. Lil' Bertha".
Willie G. said.... "You know, if it weren't for that stutter, you would be prefect".
Again Lil' Bertha spoke "It's not a stutter, I'm a repeater.. repeater.. repeater".
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You might notice the bolt on the left side. This is actually the receiver from the CP1/CP2/PP800 carbine I've been tinkering on for NV/Camera (ATN X Sight HD) gun. I swapped it out with a right hand receiver which is better suited for the carbine. It's also fitting that the right hand receiver is from a "Varmint" and is stamped as such.
So that gun pretty much named itself... "Varmint Gitter".
We're just having all kinds of fun here in the Red Shed.
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Well, that was a short lived endeavor... for now.
I was rudely reminded why that Varmint was laying in the parts bin... The grub screw holes for the barrel were totally striped out. I do have a .177 Plinkster in mint condition (less than 100 shots through it) but I ain't gonna rob it.
Instead I probably tap those holes for slightly bigger grubs. I'll make a trip to the local hardware to see what they have.
This ain't over yet. 8)
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I found a small screw and tap with the same thread. I don't know the size because I can't see things that small. It was easy to rethread the hole. The screw is just a shade too long but I think I'm going to leave well enough alone. Basically it just a 'lego' and more likely than not it will be a donor for the next must have idea I come up with.
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;D 8)
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I would have just broke it back down into parts but I didn't even get to shoot it yet.
That will happen tomorrow.
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I recently gave a co worker a Diana Chaser, extra barrel and scopes, he has been getting the tinker bug slow but sure :)
I did refer him to GTA today for mods for his gun, as he developed some valve lock in the record temps this late week.
Thought I would post an update, Nick Chaser pistol SBR is now a bottle gun with 1800 psi regulator, 525 fps for many shots.
https://youtu.be/wOtyMHOPqUE
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That's pretty sweet James. Bottled guns are one thing I have yet to tinker with. Maybe I should look into it for my next project. The subject gun of this thread may just be a right candidate.
That would be a great story to track the journey of this CP1 all the way through C02 to a bottled regulated HPA carbine.