GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Air Arms Airguns => Topic started by: phoebeisis on December 24, 2020, 05:51:40 PM
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A TX 200 Left hand just arrived-walnut stock pretty- .177
Ebay-$610 delivered -new in box-doing my bit for the economy- pre-spending my Covid stimulus
Is a somewhat flopping cocking lever -floppier than the RWS 460- about right?
It shoots great-the trigger-YIKES- The 460 T06 trigger is very good by my standards-but this trigger-just touch it and think-FIRE- and it fires-
Very accurate-I never stack pellets-old bad eyes- impatient-but this thing will
Anyway is a floppy cocking lever how they are delivered?
It works fine-just not accustomed to so much play in a pricy gun
Could there be some reason they intentionally leave that play in it? Maybe to not put some sort of off center force on the piston-let it sorta self center ?
Thanks
Charlie
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I had a TX200 and as best as I recall,.. there was minimal free play after breaking the cocking lever free. (maybe down 2-3"????) If it is shooting fine,... I would say that it is fine.
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No slop in mine and it has been shot in excess of 20,000 times..
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I don't know what you mean by slop in the cocking lever. It should snap into place and stay whether cocked or not. When cocking the rifle, on mine when I unsnap the lever from its parked position it will drop less than an inch before the actual cocking action begins. If you have much more than that your cocking shoe may be cracked. If it goes too far you will be unable to cock the rifle. Now is a good time to order a replacement whether you think you need one or not. They rarely break on a 12 fpe TX 200. They commonly fail on a full power US version.
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If you are referring to little bit of side to side slop after unlatching, then yes....normal. But, just a tiny bit.
Steve
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Mine has some side to side. If you shake the gun the cocking rod rattles a bit. Really kind of annoying since I thought it was supposed to be kind of an “improved” HW97. My 97’s don’t have the same rattle. Their cocking linkage seems to be fitted better.
I thought about putting a couple very thin washers made of derlin or something to get rid of the rattle. But really it is kind of knit picking. Once I start shooting it, I totally forget about it. Such a fantastic springer.
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Thanks guys
I was a bit unclear.
It drops very little-maybe 1 " away when broken free
I meant the lever has side to side play-wiggling- BEFORE starting cocking- and at full cock -
The tip of the lever can be moved perhaps 3/4" to 1" side to side I noticed it because it arrived with the tip of the lever NOT SEATED-offset to side(yes seller had probably taken it out tested it-
he goes to airgun shows sells nice stuff-no shows-COVID 19 -so he sold this and tuned HW 97-too cheap really $540 was too little for tuning-but Christmas so $$ short
I am very satisfied--I was trying to buy-rebuy-another HW97 from Krale(euro is up-so it would have been about $440+ $62) but all out of stock-so for $80 more-got better
rifle with Walnut-much prettier-better finish too-STOCK NOT AS "STOCKY" looking as 97
Thanks all
Charlie
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The tip of the lever can be moved perhaps 3/4" to 1" side to side
Charlie, that is a lot of movement. A couple .005” shim washers will help take up some of that slop. When I said a tiny bit, I was talking maybe 1/8” or so. It won’t hurt anything in the performance of the rifle as long as it centers up and snaps properly into place.
Steve
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Nitro-thanks
Yes it does seem excessive for an otherwise very well made rifle with so much attention to detail
I think I will go the washer route
Before cocking-just remeved from spring loaded ball bearing it will flop-only 4mm one way 2 mm the other
and it only opens -just 16-17mm-not much plenty tight-it is only when in full down position it will wobble about 7mm-8mm either direction
Here-I think is a picture of it making the poor 460 look kinda plain
Thanks Charlie
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For you eagle eyed folks-the BBs in the pellet tin are for my crosman 1377 which can shoot BBs with a Magnet stuck to its frame-cheap barrel-maybe $20 so no big deal-and BBs are very cheap-like me Daisy 880 $36 walmart also a BB shooter by design somehow it takes BBs and pellets-but $36 so no one will complain about 1mm loss in accuracy
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Nitro-thanks
Yes it does seem excessive for an otherwise very well made rifle with so much attention to detail
I think I will go the washer route
Before cocking-just remeved from spring loaded ball bearing it will flop-only 4mm one way 2 mm the other
and it only opens -just 16-17mm-not much plenty tight-it is only when in full down position it will wobble about 7mm-8mm either direction
Here-I think is a picture of it making the poor 460 look kinda plain
Thanks Charlie
Good looking rifle Charlie!
I keep some .005” thick 1/4” ID 316 stainless shim washers from McMaster Carr in stock and they work great for this. They tuck nicely into the slot for the cocking lever pivot and will take up some of that slop.
Steve
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Steve
Thanks for tip-Mc Master Carr .005" 1/4 od 316 SS I will get some-yes that walnut worth $100 more-I always buy thinking resale-someday-cars trucks motorcycles bicycles guns -eventually
I sell almost everything-except pretty little beretta nickel plated .22 M21 wood grips=too pretty to sell-maybe Walnut ??
In any case to sell an oddball-left hand-you need something extra to have it stand out-great looking wood-don't picture selling this rifle-easy to cock-looks great-shoots much better than I ever
will-but who knows
Thanks
Charlie
PS in the TX 200 vs HW97 I would vote for the german barreled citrus lovers rifle -just too pretty with such a trigger-and feels better too -easy to cock despite savaging the zinc pellets-
with carefully layered papers-and packing plastic-only 1/4 .177 reusable-I do better with the 22 out of 460 -
TX 200 .177 Daisy ZINC alloy PELLETS probes to 15mm in pine 2x4 actual tip maybe 2-3 mm more-they are flat tipped -about $12/250 delivered on sale-ebay walmart amazon
RWS 460 .22 SSP CROSMAN(not made anymore for some reason-they were just $10/250 walmart- probe to 9mm- maybe tip-pointed tip another 3 or so mm
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Wow-I got ID mixed up with od
1/4" ID .005 THICK 316 SS-
had no idea there were so many shims readily available -so many materials
Thanks
Charlie
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My TX developed a floppy cocking arm. When I sent it to Motorhead for tuning, he discovered that one of the holes was hogged out, and replaced it. Tight once again. Pretty easy diagnosis and correction. Also, he recommended something better and thicker than TriFlow for lubrication, he recommended Lucas Break-In Lube. Hangs in there better.
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-Yard dog
Lucas break in lube?
Good idea-
I probably have some break-in lube-lotta Molydenum disulfide in it-left over from my motorcycles-yeah just looked for it I have it-never throw anything away
described as EXTREME PRESSURE MOLY GRAPHITE assembly lube-great lube maybe but would never get that off my clothing
I will give lucas a try-
Thanks
Charlie I have thin shims on the way-or at least ordered
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Now it is perfect-or will be once I get the .005" shims in-thanks to steve nitrio for the shim info-McMaster Carr-which must be a famous supplier oof fasteners because my computer dial them up
I took off trigger guard- 3mm rear 5 mm front allen screws
A screw 1/4 turn Clockwise -adding trigger weight-think it is a 2mm allen-hard to read-allen came with rifle
C screw 1/4 turn Counterclockwise adding 1st stage travel-I think it is 1mm allen which came with rifle
For my purposes the extra travel and extra weight are perfect
The as delivered weight and travel were waaaaay less than any trigger I had ever had-literally startled me the first 30 shots-
but great for accuracy-I use the press trigger by timing wobble method I shoot freehand standing-A LOT-so wobble always there-as delivered when I thought trigger-BAM-barely a touch after 1st stage-literally I seemed to just THINK squeeze-BAM-
Thanks all
Charlie
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When Scott discovered the flop, he did not pass go. His perfect solution was to simply replace the part. I absolutely concurred.
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Yarddog
Yes that is what I will do-once I figure out just what is "wrong"
But after shooting it more-and becoming more familiar with it- what I described as FLOP- which is left to right "wiggle" of the cocking lever in fully back position
Is probably not caused by poor shimming.
Looking closely there are 2 flat linkage links-about 7 cm long-They DON'T line up in full cock
More telling-and easier to see-when you break cocking lever loose from spring loaded ball bearing- it is OFFCENTER-relative to the ball bearing by about 3-3.5mm
So my original complaint-too much WOBBLE FLOP-is wrong- probably not too much-
The hole in the lever-when it is within 0-30mm of ball bearing-is at LEAST 3mm off-making the lever well to the right of the rifle-until you lock it in- the hole os dead center-
The problem is in those links-maybe hole drilled incorrectly-or one is too long too short-
A BIG HINT was there when I unboxed it-the lever was NOT locked into the ball bearing-it was pushed to the side-not locked in at all
I noticed this right away-hard to not-but I assumed it had been pushed out during packing or enroute(box-2 boxes) arrived in perfect shape-and end of rifle was sorta "boxed" separately
so I should have immediately put 2+2 together-and known it was a slight misfit from factory-
these parts are sturdy and stiff-box perfect-so it was poor-QC on this single aspect-
Yard dog- thanks for the mention of the hogged out holes-mine might have a hole drilled slightly "off" on the 7 cm long links - too far or too short one way or the other.
Thanks all-sorry for my original description of too much FLOP was wrong - it actually is deviated to one side-so you have to PUSH it too the center to lock it in the ball bearing
Thanks all-very useful resource.
PS
I am old-69 -so a minor defect in an otherwise GREAT and GORGEOUS rifle -does not really put me off
Heck-when I was a kid(1965)-my very frugal dad bought a used 1964 MG1100- a tiny boxy 1100cc boxy FWD 2 door 5 passenger Brit-mobile-
REALLY FUN to drive despite not being a MG sportswear and accelerating much more slowly than our 1965 318 Plymouth Fury 3 station wagon (go MOPAR)
It was from the GOLDEN AGE OF HORRIBLE BRIT QC- real Lucas electrics Sir Lucas PRINCE OF DARKNESS parts (they won the war with spectacular RELIABLE motors-Merlin -then...)
The points NEVER wore out-the literally BROKE IN HAlf-not kidding-broke in half!
Sorry to run on-thanks-I was wrong about wobble-actually probably something like Yard dogs "holes" being off-drilled off probably because it arrived lever not seated on ball bearing-and I have to
steer it onto the ball bearing-it wants to go 3mm to its right side
Charlie
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Charlie, Thanks for the additional details. When viewing rifle from the muzzle end does it appear as if the outer shroud/cocking handle lock-up block is centered correctly?
Also, when rifle is cocked, does the cocking handle appear to be off to one side? If those holes are drilled off center it will affect the alignment the entire way through.
Is it possible that the pivot brace at the base of the lever is bent?
Pictures would help. There are several possibilities based on your description.
Steve
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Steve thanks for the help-
I am a complete neophyte in respect to the actual workings of air rifles -I have fooled with (pun about 50/50 intentional) many with mechanical things-cars trucks motorcycles firearms
bicycles DIY house repairs plumbing -I have broken many things -ruined lots of material had to redo many "fixes" in the pre-intenet age
but since 2000 -internet age- then U-TUBE AGE I don't break things-these forums are just GREAT
Your question
NO the shroud cocking handle is NOT CENTERED- here is a crude picture-son's cell-that might show that
and another picture-lever fully cocked-shows that the tip of one link-is about 1-2mm farther toward the muzzle-something is "off" drilled "some hole" wrong place
I weill post this-then load up pictures-might be one response down if it won't allow me to insert it after fact
Thanks
Charlie-
PS still shoots great-really does not bother me too much-Brit QC -we owned a 1964 MG1100 boxy fun little 5 passenger car-lotta fun-but the points never wore out-they literally BROKE IN HALF
Prince of Darkness Sir Lucas-but it was FUN car-real wood dash-with toggle switches just like James Bond's Bentley
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The links-problems uploading
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From that picture it looks like the pin isn’t the entire way though. It looks like it is sticking out the one side. That press pin should not be sticking out on either side.
Steve
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second pict-I hope
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Charles, See my reply above. Unless I’m looking at it wrong, the cocking handle pivot pin is not the entire way through the base pivot bracket of the handle. Take a close look to make sure. If it’s out, remove your stock and using a proper sized punch and small hammer, carefully line handle up and tap that pin the whole way in.
Steve
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That pin will have a tight, press fit in the action. It should not feel loose in any way.
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Wow
You are dead on
At first -my bad eyes-I saw shiny on both sides-but on closer inspection-
One shiny was about 7mm of shiny chromed pin sticking waaay out
The other shiny was not a pin at all-it was the shiny curved out HOLE that was supposed to be FILLED by the shiny chromed pin
Steve Nitrocrusher-how in the world you could see that from those crummy pictures-I was looking at REAL thing and did not notice that the pin had not been pressed through
all I noticed was the lever did not "want to lock up correctly" it had to be steered in-arrived cockeyed in package that appeared to be not disturbed much-except for ebay pictures
and on looking more closely I saw the links seemed to be "wrong length" never noticed the pin which is about 7-8mm from fully inserted
Thanks you guys- great resource
Without this I would have just continued to shoot it-and be happy about it-soooo pretty such a nice trigger-such nice wood- points free hand soooo well(relative to HW97)
Thanks again
I will attend to it after I finish some continuing education stuff-typical for me-due 12-31-2020 midnight-12 more hrs of work
Charlie
PS Looked on U-Tube before buying-really easy to work on-might de tune it to "recycle" my 5-6 cents each NOT LEAD pellets-these flat nosed .177 daisy zinc or aluminum pellets are destroyed much worse than the pointed zinc aluminum pointed pellets in more powerful RWS 460 .22- the flat ones penetrated deeper in paper and 9mm vs 14mm deeper-via probe-in pine-not sure 460
is actually more powerful-50% more frontal area-but pointed-and 50% deeper penetration-seems a wash in respect to crushed pine
Oh-my TX200 still gives off that burned fuel smell-dieseling-I have been very careful-no oil anywhere near chamber or barrel-slightly sharper report than I expect too-maybe it is igniting oil-boosting velocity
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It is PERFECT now-thanks to all you-great resource-I would have broken far fewer cars pickups motorcycles firearms fancy bicycles plumbing "stuff' -
If I had had a resource like this 69 -so no internet until about 1998 for me
I removed stock -4 allen screws- 5mm and maybe 3mm-
carefully wrapped action in blanket and towel-carefully used LOTS of blue painters tape
3 1/4 lb 10" long maul-just 8"actually protruding- sturdy punch
Took several HARD HITS- gentle raps-no movement
Yes I shaved a tiny 1/10mm thin ring of metal-my bad-but not visible and plenty of metal there-yes I firmly supported that barrel extension-padded but supported so not likely to bend it
Guessing something was mis-aligned at factorybest bet the link hole drilled "off" center-slightly
In any case-works fine now-dead center cocking arm-locks up dead center too-ZERO WOBBLE in any position
Yes the pin is a TIGHT fit-I can "feel" the increased friction from it rolling in links
Thanks all- STEVE CHRIS FRANK IN KY THOMAS and others I missed- great resource-don't let my ham handed-ness offend you too much-I am impatient-always was-
PS best guess how why was this missed by factory QC ? Stunning machine-looks- function-power- best undercover best springer if I had paid full online dealer price-$820 with tax-it would
still be worth it-paid $602 EBay-new in box MUCH MORE THAN ABOUT $360 delivered -Krale I paid for HW97K 3 years ago-or the $340 for Dianna 460 5 years ago-GRABAGUN-TX FIREARMS ONLNE DEALER
It is 2x as "good" as they are-based on looks and trigger and pointing-forearm feels right-HW97 it did not-too big klunky for normal free hand standing shooting
i don't use artillery hold-not how I would self defense hold-I kid myself that I do this for self defense-FUN is real reason!
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That is GREAT news😁 Regarding the QC.....Well I’ve seen quite a number of QC issues coming from Air Arms in recent years so nothing surprises me. I have quite a list of things found, some rather dangerous.
They are still my favorite springer, but you really have to look them over closely when you get them. The old saying “just put a couple tins through it before doing anything” could be risky😉 My recommendation is to check them over very closely before shooting.
Steve
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Steve
Thanks again
You are right you should look CLOSELY very closely at all new air guns-and of course-FIREARMS
You would think it would arrive-PERFECT -such a good rifle-so beautiful-so much attention to detain
Now I had a BIG hint right away-the cocking rod was NOT locked in when it arrived-it was pushed to side-despite the muzzle being packed in another separate little triangle box
But I was anxious to shoot it-so just a quick eyeballing-figured it was just slightly mis-shimmed
Good thing I contacted you guys- and posted better than my average pictures- my eyes-I saw 'SHINY about equally-on both sides-
I shoot both hands-was born lacking one aspect of depth perception according to air force ROTC(they were right-despite my insisting they were wrong)
In any case until you pointed it out-it looked to me like the pin was protruding equally on both sides
Instead it should have been BARELY-maybe 1mm PROTRUDING both sides
Yep-you are right-even very good-gorgeous guns-need a through going over before shooting them-
Thanks again-one heck of a rifle-
Charlie