GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Vintage Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: 45flint on December 20, 2020, 02:13:53 PM
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I have in 5 years collected a pretty diverse collection of vintage air rifles. The rifles that stand out to me are all rifles built with no concern for power. I think current Airgun players are obsessed about power. How can I increase power, should I steroid my rifle etc. I understand the needs for hunters but most often our shooting is not at quarry? What this quest has done is made the PCP the Airgun of choice for manufacturers and buyers.
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Not better, just different.
I still use penetration as a measure of power. The Quest-1000 will put a pellet through fourteen cat food cans while the Sheridan will only do ten. (The 760 would go through 4 with a pellet, 6 with a bb.)
But, yeah. People always want more power. I once watched a dumbass ruin a perfectly good Colt .45 in his quest for 1400-fps. What a goober.
I'll take a hit over a high-power miss any time. Accuracy is important.
Say safe,
J~
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Question :
Average FPS of the Sheridan Model A Supergrade ?
(for comparison . . . )
regards
John
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There's exceptions, but I typically stick to airguns that I can take game with. It's a quirk of mine even though I don't do a whole lot of hunting, I guess it's a practicality thing. That being said it only takes 1.5 ft/lbs to harvest a starling and 6 for a squirrel....I find rabbits would take even less in theory, though I've never shot at one with anything doing under 12 ft/lbs. The past few years I've made the jump from strictly vintage to some modern magnum springers since moving more rural and ground hog sized game. PCP's just don't appeal to me.
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Question :
Average FPS of the Sheridan Model A Supergrade ?
(for comparison . . . )
regards
John
In a 1947 "American Rifleman" article a velocity of 770fps with 12 pumps was recorded firing a 15.3gr bullet (Bantam pellet).
From my own experience firing many Super-Grade and Sporter rifles, average velocity is 650fps with 8 pumps and a 14.3gr cylindrical pellet.
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I have in 5 years collected a pretty diverse collection of vintage air rifles. The rifles that stand out to me are all rifles built with no concern for power. I think current Airgun players are obsessed about power. How can I increase power, should I steroid my rifle etc. I understand the needs for hunters but most often our shooting is not at quarry? What this quest has done is made the PCP the Airgun of choice for manufacturers and buyers.
Remember that for a long time in the US at least it seems the attitude was " I had one of those bb guns when I was a kid ".
Once they started to market them heavily to adults they had to make them more appealing to the guys who might otherwise just go with rimfire instead.
Now it seems people just demand more power because they can have it and have gotten used to it, how many people do you think would get really good at stalking squirrels if the best they could get was a Sheridan streak with peep sights.
Think of the 12fpe limited folks in the UK who make some amazing head shots.
I can't tell people what they don't need and nobody will have it no matter what, but I know a lot of people are more obsessed with power than they have cause to be.
I personally do not get the whole idea of modifying a gun to get the absolute most efficiency and power out of it.
The whole reason I love my pumpers is because I can use as little power as possible to do what I need to with them.
I'll do things like sight upgrades and minor trigger work to improve shootability some, but if the gun doesn't have enough power I'll grab one that does.
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. . . from the Sheridan Handbook of the Supergrade Model :
“When you need more hitting power get out your .22 Long Rifle or .30-06”
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In the sixties I did a lot of pot-hunting for small game using a standard grade Sheridan blue streak.
It never failed.
Except when I blew a shot.
FPS was a thing of for hand loaders . . . and not for air rifles.
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So the Handbook is the last word as far as I’m concerned.
regard,
John
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Having grown up in the 50’s60’s era, I can’t recall anybody ever mentioning velocity or power. It was the ‘shot’ that mattered. If something took a second shot, then it was awfully tough or wasn’t hit in the right spot. Power is an internet phenomenon. Yes, we had heard of it, but not such a huge issue.
What was this thread about?
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I love all of my Ben's Dan's, and Crosmans, however, I bit the bullet and layed down $1700.00 for a PCP rig. Without ever shooting it, I took it to Tim and he replaced all the seals with Urethane, crowned the barrel, and did his trigger job!". Gun is so quiet, I can shoot in my backyard......something I can't do with my 180. Most accurate gun I own now....Tack Driver!
The only gun that comes close to it would be my 14 pump Blue Streak with heavy pellets. Last time I spent this much coin was for a SVD Russian Dragunov 30 years ago! No regrets...worth every penny! 8) dave
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I love all of my Ben's Dan's, and Crosmans, however, I bit the bullet and layed down $1700.00 for a PCP rig. Without ever shooting it, I took it to Tim and he replaced all the seals with Urethane, crowned the barrel, and did his trigger job!". Gun is so quiet, I can shoot in my backyard......something I can't do with my 180. Most accurate gun I own now....Tack Driver!
The only gun that comes close to it would be my 14 pump Blue Streak with heavy pellets. Last time I spent this much coin was for a SVD Russian Dragunov 30 years ago! No regrets...worth every penny! 8) dave
And with that money you could have bought a classic Supergrade and had something, sad? My 180 on low power is fine for my backyard? Like that tank with the Velcro handle for easy carry? Pease all in good fun, I’m sure it’s a great rifle.
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I think that much of this quest for more & more power has come from Springers being advertised to shoot at such high speeds. 1000, then 1200, then 1500 fps in large print on the boxes has many expecting those speeds. Good luck with that !
I don't see a need to " beef up " a vintage firearm to gain more fps, either. But, it is your rifle & you can do what you want with it. I don't even like to hear the term, " Steroided."
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I think that much of this quest for more & more power has come from Springers being advertised to shoot at such high speeds. 1000, then 1200, then 1500 fps in large print on the boxes has many expecting those speeds. Good luck with that !
I don't see a need to " beef up " a vintage firearm to gain more fps, either. But, it is your rifle & you can do what you want with it. I don't even like to hear the term, " Steroided."
I fully agree.
The funny thing is that I used to shoot my blue streak on 8 pumps every time, I always felt it was a waste not to use it on max power.
Eventually I realized I'm just plinking and that was nonsense.
The streak still has a bit more power than others, but really it just does in 4 pumps what some of my others need 5 for.
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There were many more places to shoot and hunt with firearms (in the US, anyway) in years past, gun regulations/restrictions were far fewer, and common ammo was inexpensive. We had .22 shorts and CB caps for low power shooting.
Consequently, there was less use for airguns other than teaching youngsters how to shoot. Past that, many folks only thought of airguns as disposable toys.
I didn't have any friends who had a German, English, etc. made one. I'd seen them in the gun rags, but such things were kinda "rare and exotic" to me back then. Dad wouldn't even buy me a Crosman 150, saying that the Co2 and pellets for it were nearly as expensive as .22 lr ammo.
With things much different today, many people want airguns that can take the place of (or at least supplement) their firearms.
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I think back very fondly of my first airguns. As for power? I didn't have a chrono, but long before there was an internet, touch tone, or even cable tv in our area anyway I was on the hunt for power.
I used to hassle the manager of the coast to coast hardware looking for better sealing material and heavier springs when I was 12.
We rifled through small engine, plumbing, and even electrical departments looking for parts together.
I remember blowing the seals on more than a few pumps and being back at the same hardware store often for my mistakes.
For me, power was about distance. Accuracy was a given.
I do wish I still had those airguns today.
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. . . on second thought . . .
there were chronographs available for vintage air rifles : pictures one and two .
regards,
John
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Vintage guns for me still need to have some speed.
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Surely they were better before the chronograph. Before the PCP they had no competition. 50 years later, the Benjamin pumper is still 630 fps. Don’t know much airgun history but I guess springers evolved more powerful models.
I agree that nice vintage pumpers are better off “unsteroided”.
The late model 392PA is where the power potential is at. Add a high power scope and it makes a nice all around package.
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Our chronograph was a 3lb coffee can. A Benjamin 312 would shoot through one side and heavily dent the other side at 6 pumps. That was our standard until I got my first Sheridan, which punched through both sides.
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They weren't better because we didn't have ballistic chronographs, but because they were just flat-out made better. Like the near match-grade barrel on my 160 Pellgun variant one. Not to mention, the quality of pellets and variety of same is into the stratosphere by comparison to the Crosman flyin' garbage cans we were stuck with. Too much use of plastic these days. They were all wood-n-steel in those days.
Crosman 160 Pellgun variant 1, 1955-56;
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/yam0M2.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnyam0M2j)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/oHEejQ.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmoHEejQj)
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Better depends on what is important to you. I prefer vintage guns because they are smaller and lighter than todays. I like them because they do not have automatic safeties. I like them because some are dependable. My 1948 Benjamin 317 still works perfectly. They are better if a deep blue and figured wood please you. If I want power I use a firearm. If I want relaxed shooting in my driveway I use a vintage gun.
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A couple weeks ago we went out as a family with the some of the typical targets, 12 oz soda cans (full), 18 pack of eggs, and some spinners.
We take turns when we shoot, usually making a competition out of it. If someone chooses a target and misses the next person has a chance an so on.
Well we were getting ready to leave and there was a 12 oz Orange Crush that was left. It was by far the farthest target set out by the kids.
I was going to take a shot at it just as we were picking up when my 13 year old daughter sweetly reminded me "IT WAS HER TURN!"
She was using her fully restored 1965 Crosman 140 that I mounted a fixed power 2.5 x 30 NC Star long eye relief scope scout style. She took a couple shots,
at full power and missed. I told her to aim just over the top of the can. She said "I can hardly see the can!"
She took another shot and the can exploded! It was far, and up hill from us on the jeep trail we came down. I paced it there, then back it was almost a 70 yard shot,
200 ft. (I do pace distances for a living, I'm a Surveyor). Needless to say she was happy and we were all amazed. That was a good amount of power and accuracy at that distance!
Have fun!
Merry Christmas All!
Rich
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I'm just an old guy that appreciates the 1950's American craftsmanship! My Benjamin 310, 317 and 130 all work great
and represent that era well! If I want to shoot a flea off my dog's toenail, I'll have to upgrade my technology!
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"" She took another shot and the can exploded! It was far, and up hill from us on the jeep trail we came down. I paced it there, then back it was almost a 70 yard shot, 200 ft. (I do pace distances for a living, I'm a Surveyor). Needless to say she was happy and we were all amazed. That was a good amount of power and accuracy at that distance! ""
I know that brought a smile on everyone's face !
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I love the old shool airguns I shot in NRA youth shoots with a crosman 160 I still have that old co2 gun and it still is a tack driver. I like steel and real wood. I have many old girls in the safe old hw 55 2of them, a nice old hw 50, 3 FWB 124s and a old FWB150 and a couple others.
These air rifles have soul kind of like a old Harley motorcycle does. Today its politically incorrect to love to shoot but the heck with what other people think !! At my age I don't need an excuse to enjoy what I enjoy.
I have this very old Remington single shot bolt action 22 rifle my grandfather gave me. I still shoot it to this day. The rifle speaks to me in ways I cannot put into words. My old scool springers are the same way. I learned responsibility shooting at a young age and I learned to respect others. I will not conform. Old school is good !! I mean look at me, (GRIN) LOL
kindly
ron
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I have in 5 years collected a pretty diverse collection of vintage air rifles. The rifles that stand out to me are all rifles built with no concern for power. I think current Airgun players are obsessed about power. How can I increase power, should I steroid my rifle etc. I understand the needs for hunters but most often our shooting is not at quarry? What this quest has done is made the PCP the Airgun of choice for manufacturers and buyers.
Steve, I'm a Vintage Co2 buff from the'60's...... but I have to ask, Have you ever benched a PCP Benjamin Marauder before? The Technology on many of these newer guns days is INCREDIBLE!
Just saying! ;) dave
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I have in 5 years collected a pretty diverse collection of vintage air rifles. The rifles that stand out to me are all rifles built with no concern for power. I think current Airgun players are obsessed about power. How can I increase power, should I steroid my rifle etc. I understand the needs for hunters but most often our shooting is not at quarry? What this quest has done is made the PCP the Airgun of choice for manufacturers and buyers.
Steve, I'm a Vintage Co2 buff from the'60's...... but I have to ask, Have you ever benched a PCP Benjamin Marauder before? The Technology on many of these newer guns days is INCREDIBLE!
Just saying! ;) dave
I hear you but I have no interest in PCP. Have you ever shot a 1920’s BSA light?
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To me with the older guns it’s more simple technology but machining and wood art?