GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Projectiles => Boolit and Pellet Casting => Topic started by: scion19801 on December 05, 2020, 12:22:43 AM
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Just got my magnum hunter mold. Man do these things look mean. Just cast up 2 tins worth. These monsters Eat up the lead fast. Lol. I used the middle length pin. I’ll weigh them tomorrow and see what they come in at. Given the shape of these it almost seems like these should reach out a bit farther. Can’t wait to see what they do. I’ll get some pics up as well. More to come. Oh and I got the brass 2 cavity as per my usual.
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Dan those pellets in 34.5 grain are super heavy hitters and accurate from my guns !!!
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I'm curious to see how they will fly for you in the FX. I would like to cast pellets in .25 cal as well for mine. I'm only casting pellets for .30 cal currently, which are doing quite well lately. I'm still dialing in the slug casts in .25 cal. I haven't tried the HP slugs you sent me yet with rebuilding the AMP reg.
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thanks Wayne.. did a weight check on random pull from my tins. Seeing a bit more variance on these than my hunter mold. My average weight is 35 gr. these magnums are monsters compared to the hunters.
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Changed pins to the deepest (lightest) pellet for this mold. Cast about 3/4 tin worth. See if my groups get any better. I’ll do another weight check and put up some groups since I have my heavy liner installed and gonna bump up my speed and see where things land.
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That looks like a serious chunk of a lead head there with those magnums. I'm hoping they'll fly straight for you!
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so far these have been shotgunning. absolutely terrible. the weight check on the longest pin gives me 33.8 gr average. hoping these one do better. gonna try to get some groups on target today if i can stand the cold, white &^^& outside. that will be after i bump up my gun settings a bit more.
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I chronographed a few slugs and pellets yesterday with the .25 600mm Superior liner installed in my week old .30 Impact chassis. I have a Huma split port and one shim/hammer weight installed. Huma has been opened a bit and the stock bolt opened to match the split port. The test was at home so it's just under 10 meters. Yes its not an accuracy test, but if the ammo won't shoot a small clover leaf or smaller it usually won't group farther out either.
I tremble more than a little.
I got these numbers with this tune:
Hammer spring gap measure with wheel at max.
Reg : 138B VA: .340” / 8.64mm HS: .637” / 16.18mm
JSB 33.75 pellet: #5 926 fps 64 fpe
Cast 38gr NOE HPBT: #5 894 fps 68 fpe
NSA 38gr slug #5 863 fps 64 fpe
NSA 26.8gr slug: #5 992 fps 58 fpe
Cast 27gr pellet: #5 991 fps 60 fpe
NSA 29ge slug: #5 962 fps 60 fpe
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Dan I cast them with pure lead from Rotometals, when I use the longest pin on mine they're 34.5 grain. I did buy that mold as soon as it came out which is more than two years ago I think.
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I do believe you can get those pellets flying straight. I also believe you can add in a little tin to the mix (1% to 2.5%) to get them to fill out better, and to get them past the choke still shaped as designed with the added stiffness of the tin and burnished with the 10% Shock oil (thanks Knife). I cast some with pure sheet lead and the groups were a disaster for me compared to the ones cast with some tin. Like you said, these chokes are tight. This is just with my experience with the NOE .30 cal pellets, which started out as not grouping well at all and now single holers (ragged).
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Hi Dan I have the mold got it when it first came out... I had it doing .75" ish at 45 ish yards ladle cast at 795* with roto 2% out of the Mrod that I gave a leade and is only choked to about .2493" groove...
My other .25 Mrod is more heavily choked to about .2487" and has no leade work... It does not like them at all...
But...
it does not like the Benji Domes also...The Mrod that I gave a leade(mainly done because of the rear band of the 40g BBT) did not like the Benjis before the leade work... After the leade work the Benjis are tied for 2nd place with the Barracudas after the Kings... So I think once I do leade work the Benjis and the 34g RF will do better in the more tightly choked barrel also...
I had only tried the longest pin... and had only done a little testing...and then the whole last year has been horrid... And have not done much with my airsenal...But am getting back into things now... I do think they have more potential than my initial results...
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finally got some time to mess with this mold some more. I needed to make up some more hunter noe pellets as my tin was about empty. After I did that, I had this mold pre-warming on the hot plate. I had some issues tonight with the one cavity next to my handles constantly holding onto the pin. So i stated checking casts. Hmmm... 800* pot pid temp. Seeing a lot of bad fill-out circles in the heads. Indicative of cold mold. Left the mold to warm on the pot as I cast. Next attempt. Still holding onto the pin, and almost 1/3 bad fill out. Ok...bump up temp set point and relearn the pid controller to 815*... well that didn’t seem to want to run right and was getting wild temp swings. Fine..did a small test sample. Now dropping off pin better, but temp way to unstable. Fill out getting less. So I bump to 825*. Relearn the new temp on full pot of lead, and run a good batch to test with. Seems like this might be where this mold needs to be. Drops after pour were easier and less need for banging them off the pins. Still getting a few bad fill-outs and it seems to be very random.
Gonna test what I ended up with for weight and see how these do. I know the other day I had shot some of the ones I did way back and could physically see the corkscrew into the targets. Not sure what speed they were going but my 29.2 gr hunters are right at 880 FPS on minimum with my impact. Then tested these on all settings and couldn’t get them slow enough it seems to get rid of corkscrewing. No mind you these have been shot thought a slug a liner as that is what is currently installed. Was playing with nsa 26.8 gr. And they’re smoking at 1023 FPS on max, but I pull back to paw 3 and they tame down to 990. And deadly in the slug a liner.
After some testing to see if corkscrewing is gone I’ll report back on my progress with this mold.
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so weight checked from last night's batch. still hitting the 33.8 gr average. bit more consistently at the 825* temp. still seeing spiralling and loopyness in them. could be the slug a liner. will have to change liners and retest. this is one the longest/lightest weight pin.
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Dan, did you just purchase that mold from NOE?.... The reason I ask is that is appears to be the older 35 gr. pellet I designed, which nobody had much luck with, corkscrewing was a common complaint.... Concensus opinion was that the nose was too long, which is why I redesigned it in 2018.... Here is a photo of some of the old design that Al sent me in 2017....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE Bobs Boattails/.highres/NOE 25 cal 32 gr_zpsmxy5wua8.jpg) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/rsterne/a/5c789c51-c7ee-4f35-866d-45f100c04ea3/p/68156ae6-3ebe-4520-a233-5c4cbc56213e)
The new .25 cal Magnum Hunter pellet has a shorter nose (that it shares with the Hunter) and a longer skirt....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE Airgun Pellets/.highres/NOE 25 cal Magnum_zpspc4kobh9.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/rsterne/a/1ac04542-ec7b-4001-8236-2bd6c43b7532/p/87f072b1-4c6c-4cd4-b891-d138731f6b2c)
I have one of the current design 250-34-RF molds, and the shape is as per the drawing above, and the drawings on the NOE website....
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/251/250-34-rf-br3-magnum-pellet/250-34-rf-br3-rg4-cavity-hb-magnum-hunter-pellet-brass/
If you purchased the mould recently, I would suggest you either got old stock, or they grabbed the wrong cherry when they made the last run of moulds.... :o
Here is a photo I just took of the Old (left) and New (right) NOE .25 cal moulds....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo221/rsterne/Old_and_New_25_cal_NOE_Moulds_Small.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/rsterne/a/1ac04542-ec7b-4001-8236-2bd6c43b7532/p/a02a0929-80cc-4aa6-bc35-7e31296d9f70)
You can clearly see the longer nose on the old, discontinued design.... which was Part # 250-35-RF.... I have never actually used that mould, because of the design change.... Enlargements from that photo below....
OLD - 250-35-RF - Long Nose, Short Skirt
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo221/rsterne/Old_25_cal_NOE.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/rsterne/a/1ac04542-ec7b-4001-8236-2bd6c43b7532/p/ee18ba24-e119-4e3a-8511-5c6bf36d3bb2)
NEW - 250-34-RF - Short Nose, Long Skirt
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo221/rsterne/New_25_cal_NOE.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/rsterne/a/1ac04542-ec7b-4001-8236-2bd6c43b7532/p/acfe0879-bb2a-433d-b87b-a4527ea2c0bc)
Bob
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it looks as if this is the old mold. i posted a pic a few post in. the one one the left is the magnum hunter mold i have. long head long skirt.
i bought this maybe 4 or 5 moths back. they had just come back into stock when i got it.
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Dan, did you just purchase that mold from NOE?.... The reason I ask is that is appears to be the older 35 gr. pellet I designed, which nobody had much luck with, corkscrewing was a common complaint.... Concensus opinion was that the nose was too long, which is why I redesigned it in 2018.... Here is a photo of some of the old design that Al sent me in 2017....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE Bobs Boattails/.highres/NOE 25 cal 32 gr_zpsmxy5wua8.jpg) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/rsterne/a/5c789c51-c7ee-4f35-866d-45f100c04ea3/p/68156ae6-3ebe-4520-a233-5c4cbc56213e)
The new .25 cal Magnum Hunter pellet has a shorter nose (that it shares with the Hunter) and a longer skirt....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/NOE Airgun Pellets/.highres/NOE 25 cal Magnum_zpspc4kobh9.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/rsterne/a/1ac04542-ec7b-4001-8236-2bd6c43b7532/p/87f072b1-4c6c-4cd4-b891-d138731f6b2c)
I have one of the current design 250-34-RF molds, and the shape is as per the drawing above, and the drawings on the NOE website....
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/251/250-34-rf-br3-magnum-pellet/250-34-rf-br3-rg4-cavity-hb-magnum-hunter-pellet-brass/
If you purchased the mould recently, I would suggest you either got old stock, or they grabbed the wrong cherry when they made the last run of moulds.... :o
Here is a photo I just took of the Old (left) and New (right) NOE .25 cal moulds....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo221/rsterne/Old_and_New_25_cal_NOE_Moulds_Small.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/rsterne/a/1ac04542-ec7b-4001-8236-2bd6c43b7532/p/a02a0929-80cc-4aa6-bc35-7e31296d9f70)
You can clearly see the longer nose on the old, discontinued design.... which was Part # 250-35-RF.... I have never actually used that mould, because of the design change.... Enlargements from that photo below....
OLD - 250-35-RF - Long Nose, Short Skirt
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo221/rsterne/Old_25_cal_NOE.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/rsterne/a/1ac04542-ec7b-4001-8236-2bd6c43b7532/p/ee18ba24-e119-4e3a-8511-5c6bf36d3bb2)
NEW - 250-34-RF - Short Nose, Long Skirt
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo221/rsterne/New_25_cal_NOE.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/rsterne/a/1ac04542-ec7b-4001-8236-2bd6c43b7532/p/acfe0879-bb2a-433d-b87b-a4527ea2c0bc)
Bob
I just purchased my mold from NOE. From looking at your pictures, I think I have the old design too. Accuracy has been terrible.
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Mine is stamped 250-34-RF but it sure looks like the old design to me. I just got this mold a couple weeks ago.
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Wow that does not even look like an accurate pellet :o Get your $ back or the right style mold as a replacement !
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I can't hit the broad side of a barn with this thing. I'll be calliing Al tomorrow. I'm not a happy camper right now.
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Same here. Calling Al to get this fixed.
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Same here. Calling Al to get this fixed.
I'm more than a little disappointed.
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Eddie it appears that the mold that you bought was mis-stamped from old inventory of the 250-35-RF to 250-34-RF, I have that old mold and it's absolutely worthless for accuracy. I would definitely get hold of Al at NOE and tell him the situation because you're probably never going to be able to get those to shoot accurately. That mold was supposed to be discontinued long ago I think.
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I wonder if decking it to shorten the head to the new style length would work. Not that I have the equipment to do so with accuracy. Granted it probably would have a larger meplat area, but it would probably hit with authority.
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Thanks, Wayne. That appears to be the case. I can confirm that it's horribly inaccurate. I thought it was something I was doing wrong, but I tried everything I knew to no avail.
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I wonder if decking it to shorten the head to the new style length would work. Not that I have the equipment to do so with accuracy. Granted it probably would have a larger meplat area, but it would probably hit with authority.
I have a friend with a mill. I could ask him to try it.
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we'd have to have bobs or someone with the knowledge on how much to try to take off it. It is already at the same length as the redesign. so figures would need to be known on what the cg and pressure center would end up at, so as not to affect it in a negative way and hopefully improve it.
sure it would no longer be at the magnum weight, and maybe put it in the 30 gr area with the lightest. and hopefully still be heavier than the 29.2 gr I get off my hunter mold.
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I would imagine that the sprue surface could be milled off to shorten the mould.... Mike (knifemaker) does that frequently with slug moulds to shorten the base.... The pellet would end up like a heavy wadcutter.... The current "Target" pellets from NOE are the "Hunter" design with a shorter nose.... made with the same Cherry, but not cut as deep.... Modifiying the mould would mean you could not return it, of course....
I would doubt that the moulds you have received are old stock and remarked.... I would think it much more logical that Al simply grabbed the wrong Cherry from the discontinued version.... Too bad they didn't just chuck it to avoid a mixup.... I'm sure once Al is made aware of this issue he will replace the moulds you received, no questions asked.... once they can get the correct ones made....
Bob
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lets see if copy from an old thread works...
Did not work post 93 shows the .30 version and what it would look like with a 75% meplat...
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=127363.80 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=127363.80)
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just talked to Al. The molds for this are going to get remade. He thought the old design cherry had be destroyed and done away with. he is going to correct the issue.
Also asked about getting the .249-39-rf to drop at .251" he said that could be doable.
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That's good news. I left him a voicemail.
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That's good news. I left him a voicemail.
how'd you do that? it told me that his mailbox was full on the number I called. I told him he should make a few as I knew of at least one other off hand that has the same mold issue.
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That's good news. I left him a voicemail.
how'd you do that? it told me that his mailbox was full on the number I called. I told him he should make a few as I knew of at least one other off hand that has the same mold issue.
I think I must have his cell number. He called me from it one time and I saved it.
Were you able to get one of the 4-20 pots from Midway? They were in stock when I sent the link early this morning.
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No I’m gonna call to verify they actually have it. If they do I’ll get it. If I recall, the last time I checked with them they didn’t have one even though the site said they did.
I did however cast up 60 lbs of my lead into ingots last night. 40 one pound ingots an 40 1/2 pound ingots. All through my 10# lee pro pot.
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I do have the newer mold when checking my cast of these.
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I do have the newer mold when checking my cast of these.
I'm glad you got the right one. I've been about to lose my mind trying to get these things to shoot. At least I know it's not me or the gun now.
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I do have the newer mold when checking my cast of these.
I'm glad you got the right one. I've been about to lose my mind trying to get these things to shoot. At least I know it's not me or the gun now.
At least there is a fix. You've had some bad luck lately...Hoping for some good luck as well for you.
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hey keith. how's the single shot loader doing for you?
Yeah kinda suxs that i got a bum mold for the 34gr , but i know Al will do this right. i'm happy with his goods even whn i got to wait to get them. Well worth the wait.
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I am sure anyone who is in this situation will be treated fairly.... Al is a stand-up guy.... Mistakes happen sometimes, customer service is putting things right, IMO....
Bob
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👆 very true.
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Al is definitely an asset to this community, and he's always been courteous and helpful when I've talked to him. Hopefully this we be resolved soon.
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hey Keith. how's the single shot loader doing for you?
It's the single shot loader to have! I now have my modified Side-shots working well, so mainly been using those.
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Glad to hear it. I just got a firefly on order. and waiting for my Orion cam to come up as I'm on the list to get one. Looks like a lot clear glass than the side-shot.
Was gonna get the phone one then convert it for firefly, but this just dropped and a touch cheaper to boot. can't wait to start getting footage of this loopy pellet craziness and get my slugs dialed in better with the slow-mo footage as an added tool.
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I talked to Al this morning. He's going to remake the molds and get them out as soon as possible.
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yeah, that's what he said when I talked to him the other day. Can't wait to get the new and proper mold in hand to try out.
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yeah, that's what he said when I talked to him the other day. Can't wait to get the new and proper mold in hand to try out.
Think he will make 1 for me too? ::) 8) 8) ;D
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Think he will make 1 for me too? ::) 8) 8) ;D
Call and ask him. I'm sure he's planning to do a run while he's redoing ours.
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Were you able to get one of the 4-20 pots from Midway? They were in stock when I sent the link early this morning.
I did finally get a chance to call midway. they have 62 minus my order for one of the 4-20 lee pot. cant wait to get that beast and my new 34 gr pellet mold.