GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: leila on September 14, 2011, 02:08:35 PM
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I'm new to this forum and I'm just starting to learning basics about air rifles. Would anyone be able to give me any suggestions which riffles I should be looking into more for predator control. And by predator I mean starlings and sparrows that somehow exploded over this summer and destroyed what would have been a nice start of my Purple Martin colony.
I live in one of those newer subdivisions and don't have a very big yard, plus I would like to get something that is very accurate. I already tried one of my friends riffles and missed the birds everytime... I don't know the name of it but it was very basic looking type of air riffle (pump) and it didn't have a scope.
Thank you!
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Welcome to GTA, very nice to have you with us. There are quite a few rifles out there that would suit your needs. A good place to start is usually by defining how much $ you are looking to spend. Since you mentioned removing birds, starlings and sparrows, .177 caliber should do nicely, a fact that greatly increases your options. If you don't mind spending around $450 I would say get a Beeman R-7 combo... here's a link......
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/beeman-r7-elite-series-combo?m=1561 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/beeman-r7-elite-series-combo?m=1561)
To me this rifle is the ultimate backyard bird gun. It's a high quality rifle, is deadly accurate, it is a lower powered rifle perfect for backyard shooting where distances might be a bit "tight" and it's also a gun that will hold it's value. It's a classic :)
If you're not looking to spend that much then there are of course many other options.
Jeff
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+1 for the R7! :P
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Welcome to GTA leila! :)
There's lots of knowledgeable folks here, and they are helpful too. :)
All I've shot starlings and sparrows with (so far) is my Remington (Crosman) Airmaster77. It will do the job in my experience with 5 pumps, and is very affordable. That being said, I've acquired a couple of older springers in the past couple of months, and will be trying them out next spring when the S&S return to my martin houses. I suggest reading around the different forums and making yourself familiar with the terminology regarding different types of air guns. There's also a great GTA library with much good reading time to spend (top bar, right side of the page).
Again- glad you dropped in. ;D
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Welcome to the GTA. I would first say that you need to set yourself a budget. Then decide if that budget includes a scope or not. If it doesn't, figure your budget for optics and mounts too, don't forget them. Then with a $ figure in mind, many people can give you suggestions on what rifles you should consider. Also, what type of powerplant do you want? Spring, CO2, multi-pump. Each has positives and negatives. The R-7 is a great rifle as Jeff said, but if your new and/or unfamiliar to adult airguns, you maybe in for sticker shock. There are some good choices for less money.
Nathan
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couple of Questions.
How far away from the target site (infested purple martin habitat) are you planning on shooting?
-using height of the habitat and the distance from base: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_theorem)
How worried are you about noise pollution disturbing your neighbors?
Whats behind where you are aiming? (if you miss what will you hit/damage/hurt).
Is it feasible to install a backstop on the habitat? (or in the habitat).
if this the pump air gun you'd been using before? https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-760-pumpmaster?m=339 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-760-pumpmaster?m=339)
Have you checked to see what local ordinances are concerning air guns?
For starlings (aka yellow-beaks)
Just about any .177 rifle with over 6fpe should be fine as long as its accurate at 10-20m.
A .22 is almost overkill, or some would argue a guaranteed kill IF it hits.
Cheap:
7 fpe Daisy 880S ($45 at walmart)
8 fpe Crosman 2100b (airmaster 77 $85 at walmart or $39+ s/h refurbished from crosman)
People generally go for the crosman, more power, easier to fix, better receiver for a scope...etc.
http://www.crosman.com/outlet/9-2100BRM (http://www.crosman.com/outlet/9-2100BRM)
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Remington-Air-Master-.177-Air-Rifle/5913355 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Remington-Air-Master-.177-Air-Rifle/5913355)
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Crosman-2100-Classic-.177-Caliber-Carbine/15939531 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Crosman-2100-Classic-.177-Caliber-Carbine/15939531)
Moderate:
12 fpe Benjamin Sheridan 397/392/Blue Streak ($150)
Be sure you get .177 ammo for 397, .22 ammo for 392 and .20 for blue streak.
People have been using these for decades.
Specialized/Expensive:
Any springer that is well recommended (i.e look for ones that are reasonably quiet, not too hold sensitive)
Any PCP (i.e. the Dark Side)
Scopes are great on multipumps/pcps.
Also consider what you'll do for a follow-up shot.
At 10m and under you could probably use the following for head shots on starlings, zombies:
Crosman 1377 (AKA pc77, pc77b)
$55 - ~6fpe - http://www.walmart.com/ip/Crosman-Pumpmaster-Classic-.177-Caliber-Air-Pistol/15939540 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Crosman-Pumpmaster-Classic-.177-Caliber-Air-Pistol/15939540)
Beeman P17
$40 - ~3 fpe - http://www.walmart.com/ip/Beeman-Deluxe-Air-Pistol/17217811 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Beeman-Deluxe-Air-Pistol/17217811)
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I would say get a Beeman R-7 combo... here's a link......
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/beeman-r7-elite-series-combo?m=1561 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/beeman-r7-elite-series-combo?m=1561)
To me this rifle is the ultimate backyard bird gun. It's a high quality rifle, is deadly accurate, it is a lower powered rifle perfect for backyard shooting where distances might be a bit "tight" and it's also a gun that will hold it's value. It's a classic :)
If you're not looking to spend that much then there are of course many other options.
Jeff
Thank you! I've watched the video from the link and it sure is a super nice riffle... amazing actually! A little expensive, but I have till next spring budget for it, so in the end it will depend how well I've managed my finances... :D
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Welcome to GTA leila! :)
There's lots of knowledgeable folks here, and they are helpful too. :)
All I've shot starlings and sparrows with (so far) is my Remington (Crosman) Airmaster77. It will do the job in my experience with 5 pumps, and is very affordable. That being said, I've acquired a couple of older springers in the past couple of months, and will be trying them out next spring when the S&S return to my martin houses. I suggest reading around the different forums and making yourself familiar with the terminology regarding different types of air guns. There's also a great GTA library with much good reading time to spend (top bar, right side of the page).
Again- glad you dropped in. ;D
Lizzie, thank you again for recommending this forum! I've already found some good info and so much more left to read... and now you tell me there is also a library... :D
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Welcome to the GTA. I would first say that you need to set yourself a budget. Then decide if that budget includes a scope or not. If it doesn't, figure your budget for optics and mounts too, don't forget them. Then with a $ figure in mind, many people can give you suggestions on what rifles you should consider. Also, what type of powerplant do you want? Spring, CO2, multi-pump. Each has positives and negatives. The R-7 is a great rifle as Jeff said, but if your new and/or unfamiliar to adult airguns, you maybe in for sticker shock. There are some good choices for less money.
Nathan
Nathan, I'm not sure yet what "Spring, CO2, multi-pump" is... that's how much of a beginner I am! But since there is a library here I'm hoping soon I'll be able to answer that question. :)
I wasn't planning originally to spend over $200, but now I see that it could end up costing more.
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Welcome to the GTA. It looks like you have some time to do more research before you decide what to get. Good luck and let us know what you buy.
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just remember you get what you pay for! :P
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Nathan, I'm not sure yet what "Spring, CO2, multi-pump" is... that's how much of a beginner I am! But since there is a library here I'm hoping soon I'll be able to answer that question. :)
I wasn't planning originally to spend over $200, but now I see that it could end up costing more.
It can easily cost more than $200, but it doesn't have to. It's really all up to you and what you want. The most important factor (imo) is to get what you want, and practice practice practice. When I first bought my 77, I would sit at the bench for hours at a time (until it flared up my tennis elbow, then I learned to pump with my left arm, lol. ) :D
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just some reading for ya... (might wanna search for posts december-february and april-june for yellow beaks)
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,12957.0.html (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,12957.0.html)
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,11402.0.html (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,11402.0.html)
One Starling Hunting Guide--For the record
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,10424.0.html (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,10424.0.html)
Starling Observations
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,9732.0.html (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,9732.0.html)
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Leila, welcome to the GTA. We're family and we're glad you're here.
You've asked a truly loaded (LOL) question but this is the best place to get your answers. Do some searching and explore the library but most of all, talk to the fine folks here who are happy to help you. Of course, when all is said and done we want you to spend a lot of money on airguns and then tell us all about them!!!
joe
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couple of Questions.
How far away from the target site (infested purple martin habitat) are you planning on shooting?
It would be mainly my backyard, but exact distance I’m not sure, I’ll probably will measure later when I get home.
How worried are you about noise pollution disturbing your neighbors?
Whats behind where you are aiming? (if you miss what will you hit/damage/hurt).
Is it feasible to install a backstop on the habitat? (or in the habitat).
I think my most worry is not hitting my neighbors houses that are behind the habitat… Even though mostly I would be shooting up, because my purple martin gourds are on top of a pole and there is no way I can install a backstop.
if this the pump air gun you'd been using before? https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-760-pumpmaster?m=339 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-760-pumpmaster?m=339)
Yes it is… and I couldn’t hit neither sparrow, nor a starling with it… So I guess my problem is with accuracy. :(
Have you checked to see what local ordinances are concerning air guns?
I’m in Illinois and on another forum I’ve read that someone from Illinois as well uses air riffles to control sparrows/starlings, so I’m hoping I’m good, but I guess I’ll checked that out as well.
I thank you so much for the list and all the info!!!! :) Somethings I will have to look up because of my limited terminology but it’s great to know that there are so many options.
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just remember you get what you pay for! :P
Lot of times that is the case! ;)
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ahh illinios... i'm just west of you.
There is an airgun show in st. louis, missouri this weekend.
It might be best (cheaper) to buy something across the river. I just hope you aren't near chicago.
Um.. projectiles (bullets, arrows, pellets) are all gonna arc downward if u fire upward.
"What goes up, must come down" - Isaac Newton, lil known brother of Fig Newton. j/k
The crosman 760 which is what you'd been using, doesn't surprise me that you weren't able to hit them with that. Its barrel is smooth bore (not rifled). Intended more for bb's at like 10m than pellets.
Save you're self a couple hundred bucks and try out a rifled barrel multi-pumper.
Daisy 880, Crosman 2100, Benji 397.
A lot of people in the past used Sheridan Blue Streaks, the ancestor of the current crosman benji 397/392/blue streaks, to protect their purple-martin habitats. There are a couple posts on this forum of people still using their 35 year old 342s to take out starlings.
Sheridan made the .20 blue streak 1958-1977
Benjamin (St. Louis Air Rifle Co.) made the 312/317,347/342, and bought out sheridan in '77, then they started making the 392/397/current blue streaks.
Crosman bought out Benjamin-Sheridan in 1995.
Daisy has been Daisy since... late 1800's. Not much new, innovative stuff from them.
RWS = Diana (think Nobel of Nobel Peace prize)
Anything else is likely made in China/Turkey under license.
The only problem, is that beyond 20m you'll want to use a scope (unless you've got naturally telescopic vision), and these aren't exactly scope friendly, you have to buy an intermount: https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-intermount-fits-benjamin-sheridan-multi-pump-rifles?a=2015 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-intermount-fits-benjamin-sheridan-multi-pump-rifles?a=2015)
to mount a scope, since these don't typically have a built in grooves for mounting scopes.
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Leila, welcome to the GTA. We're family and we're glad you're here.
You've asked a truly loaded (LOL) question but this is the best place to get your answers. Do some searching and explore the library but most of all, talk to the fine folks here who are happy to help you. Of course, when all is said and done we want you to spend a lot of money on airguns and then tell us all about them!!!
joe
Ha ha ha that’s funny and as long as it’s not all of my money and just lots of money then we good :D (you see I have to keep some for my other of hobbies) And thank you so much Joe!
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Welcome to the GTA. It looks like you have some time to do more research before you decide what to get. Good luck and let us know what you buy.
Thank you! And I will!!!
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Pyramyd Air Blog commentary
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/09/fix-your-benjamin-or-sheridan-pneumatic-at-home/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/09/fix-your-benjamin-or-sheridan-pneumatic-at-home/)
The Purple Martin Forums
http://purplemartin.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15363 (http://purplemartin.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15363)
http://purplemartin.org/forum/viewtopic.php?printertopic=1&t=19658&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0 (http://purplemartin.org/forum/viewtopic.php?printertopic=1&t=19658&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0)
http://www.purplemartins.com/RTC/showthread.php?t=108 (http://www.purplemartins.com/RTC/showthread.php?t=108)
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Just wanted to say welcome aboard! You got alot of good advice already on which guns. Scour pawn shops online forums garage sale too and ya might find something dirt cheap. Good luck.
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Welcome Leila to the GTA!!! You have been started in the right direction by the rest of the group so just wanted to say HI, an to add we hope we turn you into an AG junkie like we have done poor Lizzie when she stopped in with the same concern's about her bird's protection, LOL if you become as "good" as Lizzie at finding old treasure's PLEASE do stay around, we men folk can't find any deal's anywhere an she dig's a new one up almost weekly(we are hoping she start's selling some hehe).
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ahh illinios... i'm just west of you.
There is an airgun show in st. louis, missouri this weekend.
It might be best (cheaper) to buy something across the river. I just hope you aren't near chicago.
Um.. projectiles (bullets, arrows, pellets) are all gonna arc downward if u fire upward.
"What goes up, must come down" - Isaac Newton, lil known brother of Fig Newton. j/k
The crosman 760 which is what you'd been using, doesn't surprise me that you weren't able to hit them with that. Its barrel is smooth bore (not rifled). Intended more for bb's at like 10m than pellets.
Save you're self a couple hundred bucks and try out a rifled barrel multi-pumper.
Daisy 880, Crosman 2100, Benji 397.
A lot of people in the past used Sheridan Blue Streaks, the ancestor of the current crosman benji 397/392/blue streaks, to protect their purple-martin habitats. There are a couple posts on this forum of people still using their 35 year old 342s to take out starlings.
Sheridan made the .20 blue streak 1958-1977
Benjamin (St. Louis Air Rifle Co.) made the 312/317,347/342, and bought out sheridan in '77, then they started making the 392/397/current blue streaks.
Crosman bought out Benjamin-Sheridan in 1995.
Daisy has been Daisy since... late 1800's. Not much new, innovative stuff from them.
RWS = Diana (think Nobel of Nobel Peace prize)
Anything else is likely made in China/Turkey under license.
The only problem, is that beyond 20m you'll want to use a scope (unless you've got naturally telescopic vision), and these aren't exactly scope friendly, you have to buy an intermount: https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-intermount-fits-benjamin-sheridan-multi-pump-rifles?a=2015 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-intermount-fits-benjamin-sheridan-multi-pump-rifles?a=2015)
to mount a scope, since these don't typically have a built in grooves for mounting scopes.
I really want to thank you again for all this info, I'm going to have to really do my homework and learn about all of the rifles in your post. :)
I live west of Chicago in small town called Plano.
Before I shot at actual birds, I practiced in my basement and it took me forever to hit the target, but eventually I hit it... but then when I tried it on birds I was hitting everything but the them.
PS I really had fun while I was just a target shooting, it was stress relieving sort of thing... :)
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Just wanted to say welcome aboard! You got alot of good advice already on which guns. Scour pawn shops online forums garage sale too and ya might find something dirt cheap. Good luck.
Per Lizzies advise on the martin forum I did visit a pawn shop already once, where I almost bought Gamo Varmint Hunter .177 1200 in a case brand new looking for $100. But then when the guy started asking and finding out what I'm planning to use it for, I guess he thougth that I might be too dangerous with it, he told me that he didn't want me to hit anyone with it, because if someone got hurt it could come back to his shop. I really can't blame him and now since I've found this forum I know I will get better and will buy rifle (or two:)) that is perfect for me. Thank you for the welcome!
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Thank you for your welcome Jay!!!
I am not sure if I can be a good as Lizzie but I will try. ;)
And thank you to all, you have so helpful!!!
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Just wanted to say welcome aboard! You got alot of good advice already on which guns. Scour pawn shops online forums garage sale too and ya might find something dirt cheap. Good luck.
Per Lizzies advise on the martin forum I did visit a pawn shop already once, where I almost bought Gamo Varmint Hunter .177 1200 in a case brand new looking for $100. But then when the guy started asking and finding out what I'm planning to use it for, I guess he thougth that I might be too dangerous with it, he told me that he didn't want me to hit anyone with it, because if someone got hurt it could come back to his shop. I really can't blame him and now since I've found this forum I know I will get better and will buy rifle (or two:)) that is perfect for me. Thank you for the welcome!
Hello and Welcome!
Yea, that's the problem I have... I don't have much space and I'm sure that some of the high powered spring rifles would shoot through our wooden old fence if I didn't put a steel sheet up... I'd stick with something under the power of a Benjamin 397 in .177 or 392 in .22... A Crosman 2100 is still a good deal though for power accuracy and noise... Also, always be aware what's behind your target before you take the shot...
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Yeah forgot to mention that about the multi pumps.
They have variable power (due to the # of pumps).
Benjis are 2-8x pumps
Crosman/Daisy pumpers usually are 3-10x.
With a benji practice with 3x pumps, 5x pumps, and once you're reasonably certain that you could hit an apple.
Try out 6x pumps. I wouldn't try 7x-8x pumps unless you were trying to take out non-bird pests.
With a Daisy 880/Crosman 2100 try 5x pumps to start. then 7x pumps.
The point of impact will be slightly different, especially the farther out you go.
benji is almost 2x more powerful.
Unlike springers which are always at near their max power. They seem to fluctuate more velocity wise than pumpers.
A few months ago i got an old 1964 (45 years old) blue streak, stock as far as i could tell... and it still shot amazing, didn't have to replace seals (although i may have to it is a lil beat) the only problem was after 45's years the stock had a faded/bleached look, and after 5x coats of finish it looks good as new.
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Welcome!!
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Well I just had to read some more of those purple martin forums.
Seems that the top three recommendations (in no particular order):
Note: A lot of people were satisfied with their crosman 2100 (airmaster77), http://www.walmart.com/ip/Crosman-2100-Classic-.177-Caliber-Carbine/15939531 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Crosman-2100-Classic-.177-Caliber-Carbine/15939531)
just when that wasn't enough;
Benjamin Marauder Rifle (AKA m-rod) PCP - https://www.pyramydair.com/product/benjamin-marauder-air-rifle?m=1774 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/benjamin-marauder-air-rifle?m=1774)
- I wonder how effective the pistol version (AKA p-rod) would be. Shorter, Cheaper, 700fps.
Marauder pistol - https://www.pyramydair.com/product/benjamin-marauder-pcp-air-pistol?m=2367 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/benjamin-marauder-pcp-air-pistol?m=2367)
You'd have to find a way to charge them though, since they're PCPs (Pre-Charged-Pneumatic). Translation a lot more $$$.
Beeman R7 - https://www.pyramydair.com/product/beeman-r7-air-rifle?m=1899 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/beeman-r7-air-rifle?m=1899)
-Seems to be the springer, no question, for protecting purple martins.
Quiet, not hold-sensitive, not over powered...etc.
Sheridan Blue Streak
- I suppose, since the modern Crosman manufactured sheridan blue streak is essentially the same platform as the 392/397, any of the three would work.
- If you do happen to stumble accross an older model, a true Sheridan mfg one, it'll say "Made in Racine, Wi." and "5mm" (aka .20 cal)
$100 + s/h , modern 392 refurb : http://www.airgundepot.com/392-rm.html (http://www.airgundepot.com/392-rm.html)
And occasionally they'll have enough for their other site: http://www.airgunsdaily.com/ (http://www.airgunsdaily.com/)
Airgun Classifieds:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/ (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/)
http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/classifieds.php (http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/classifieds.php)
Of interest:
$195+s/h - 392 with intermount (about $30) and a VERY good air gun scope (a lil over $50+ in value) - http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1313270601/For+Sale-+Benjamin+392+%28-22%29+pump+rifle+combo (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1313270601/For+Sale-+Benjamin+392+%28-22%29+pump+rifle+combo)
$200 - Blue Streak + $100 walmart rs2 - http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1316008394/Sheridan+Bluestreak+and+Beeman+Sportsman+RS2...both+%24200.00+FREE+Shipping (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1316008394/Sheridan+Bluestreak+and+Beeman+Sportsman+RS2...both+%24200.00+FREE+Shipping)
$240 - One of the rare 392's that has the grooves to mount a scope - http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1315668943/FS+Benjamin+392+Limited+Edition--- (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1315668943/FS+Benjamin+392+Limited+Edition---)
$225 - Silver Streak (The good looking sheridan, same as the blue streak, just nicer looking)
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1315949733/Sheridan+ssssssSilver+sssssssStreak (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1315949733/Sheridan+ssssssSilver+sssssssStreak)
$300 - R7 - http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1315994617/WTS+R7+in+.20 (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1315994617/WTS+R7+in+.20)
Craigslist:
$100 - benji 342 - http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/spo/2590676943.html (http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/spo/2590676943.html)
$50 - airmaster77 - http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/tag/2570233350.html (http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/tag/2570233350.html)
I would recommend avoiding anything on craigslist that is vague, involves money orders, or like the 1st one i linked, asks for more than contact information. Seeing as how chicago is anti-airgun though i can understand why he might ask that, still its a little strange. Craigslist is great, sometimes. Also people don't seem to understand that if its used it needs to cost more than 20% less than a brand new one. Just be very very very careful. I wouldn't get the $50 airmaster77, when i could get the crosman for $55 brand new (or $39 refurbed directly from crosman).
Estate Sales:
NOTE about estate sale: ALWAYS GET THERE EARLY by 10-15 minutes, or someone else will get your coveted item.
http://www.estatesales.net/estate-sales/IL/ (http://www.estatesales.net/estate-sales/IL/)
Auctions:
a late 1950's possibly early 60's Blue Streak with hold-down safety, Freeport, Il (2hrs west of plano). Oct. 8th.
http://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=1998&aid=43467&lid=11371614#topoflot (http://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=1998&aid=43467&lid=11371614#topoflot)
There's an auction house up by addison,il. that's got a few airguns now and then, they have online bidding, but you have to make arrangements for pickup or s/h. Now and then they'll have some sheridans for auction.
http://www.estatesales.net/estate-sales/189792.aspx?highlight=gun+guns+bb (http://www.estatesales.net/estate-sales/189792.aspx?highlight=gun+guns+bb)
http://www.leonardauction.com/auctions/schedule.php (http://www.leonardauction.com/auctions/schedule.php)
gunbroker.com
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=251248524 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=251248524)
Searching estatesales.net, craigslist;
It helps to search for "air rifle", air gun, airgun, bb gun (as an example of what popped up this week)
http://pictures.estatesales.net/8525/215424/3402401.jpg?634514450925070000 (http://pictures.estatesales.net/8525/215424/3402401.jpg?634514450925070000)
Clearly that top air rifle is not a BB GUN, but a rocker safety, sheridan blue streak. My guess pre-1975's mfg (maybe someone who knows more about sheridans can take a look at the front sight and see if its a late model 1963). With an installed Williams peep sight, which definitely increases its value. My guess at a reasonable price for it ~$100-130. To bad its probably too far away for ya to get to it, its between Chicago & Detroit:
http://www.estatesales.net/estate-sales/215424.aspx?highlight=bb+guns (http://www.estatesales.net/estate-sales/215424.aspx?highlight=bb+guns)
Searching for 'pellet' is how I found my sheridan. It was mislabeled as a ".177 pellet sheridan", but I knew better :). The stock was in ugly shape, but when I picked it up and pumped it one time and heard the tell-tale "pfff" noise of a working pumper, I was willing to pay for it. They also had 3x tins of 5mm pellets on hand (1x in the metal tin, and two yellow boxes), I only got the one yellow pellet box that was nearly full.
When i took it apart later to clean decades of oil+dust, i was amazed at how well manufactured it was. Seriously the metal parts on it looked like it'd been made only a few years ago. Mostly made of brass and aluminum, the only things that are likely to rust are the stock rear sight (williams peep sight is aluminum), and the trigger (which has been blue-ed to resist rusting).
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I also looked at methods of eliminating starlings.
Several people ruined their martin houses using firearms, pellet guns, and even slingshots.
Some used baiting (especially in the winter and spring) at the base of the pole or a nearby tree and shot at a down ward angle from a window/door, using the ground/tree as their backstop. I'm personally not too keen on baiting as a practice, however considering the fact that its an invasive pest that kills off songbirds, wood peckers, purple martins... its probably necessary.
Essentially baiting involves putting out food (cat food, cheetos, corn...etc.) that starlings seem to LOVE and waited for them to come in to be terminated.
Some people also used traps to capture starlings and then eliminate them.
Unfortunately baiting will attract other pests.
It will significantly reduce damage to property and people. Which is a big plus.
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Dint for get the co2 guns like the 2240 pistol 2260 & 1077 rifles. I personaly use almost stock 2240 modded transferport,6.5" tko LDC & 4x32 scope. With this Ive taken pigeons & grackles out to 20yds. I just noticed starling in the neighborhood so ill start thinning them & the infestation of sparows I have.
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Thank for the tip about auctions althawk!
I use trap (Blains repeating) for sparrows, so far I got 61 of them and counting, I get between 3-5 a day. I really like that trap because I can let go the birds that are other than sparrows. Starlings are little bit harder to get with a trap, what I use is special type of entrace in my Purple Martin Gourds and House that suppose to prevent them from entering, but I heard that that entrance is not full proof.
Thanks also for idea of baiting starlings, it's way better than trying to get them and hitting the martin house.
So I narrowed it down (not really :)) in no particular order to these:
Daisy 953
Benjamin 397 .177
Beeman Ram .177 Caliber Air Rifle Combo RS Trigger
Crossman Sheridan Blue Streak
Beeman R-7 combo
Oh and Theoben Eliminator looks nice but I think it's a bit too much for a start up rifle. ;D
edit<to remove benjamin .22 and add daisy>
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I'm worried about you shoting up, and the pellet coming down on on eof the neighbors behind the habitat. responsible pesting requires your target to have a backdrop that deosnot put anyone at danger.
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Hmm... beeman elkhorn rs2...
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/beeman-elkhorn-air-rifle-rs2-trigger?m=1827 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/beeman-elkhorn-air-rifle-rs2-trigger?m=1827)
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Beeman174-Elkhorn-177-Cal-Air-Rifle/1196529.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dbeeman%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts&Ntt=beeman&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products (http://www.cabelas.com/product/Beeman174-Elkhorn-177-Cal-Air-Rifle/1196529.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dbeeman%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts&Ntt=beeman&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products)
^ has a nice scope for airgunning.
no open sights, so you'd have to have a scope on it.
I wonder what the difference is in performance compared to the Walmart rs2:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Beeman-Dual-Caliber-Air-Rifle-with-Scope/16686245 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Beeman-Dual-Caliber-Air-Rifle-with-Scope/16686245)
(this is a RS2, with 2x barrels .177, .22 and a mediocre scope)
If the difference is the 'fluted barrel' on the elkhorn, then this deal i posted earlier doesn't look too bad:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1316008394/Sheridan+Bluestreak+and+Beeman+Sportsman+RS2...both+%24200.00+FREE+Shipping (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/message/1316008394/Sheridan+Bluestreak+and+Beeman+Sportsman+RS2...both+%24200.00+FREE+Shipping)
You'd be getting an 'elkhorn' AND a 70's blue streak for the cost of an elkhorn+scope.
Oh and be careful, the Beeman R's are made in Germany, almost all other beemans are currently made in china.
Most of the R's are rebranded Weihrauchs (HW), so buy a HW## to save a few bucks. I don't know if the R7 has a HW## model.
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Using info from here...
http://www.@#$%^.com/Beeman-Air-Rifle-Parts-s/55.htm (http://www.@#$%^.com/Beeman-Air-Rifle-Parts-s/55.htm)
The $100 walmart rs2 with two barrels i posted earlier is a model 1073.
Looks to me like the 1073 has the same power plant as an elk horn (model 1067) and ram (model 1062/1064).
Just that the 1067 has the fluted barrel, checkering on the stock, no sights, and 3-9x32 scope.
I could be (likely) wrong.
Lots of people have liked their walmart rs2's with the .22 barrel at just around 700fps (935fps w/ .177).
Thats approximately 15-16fpe more power then i believe is necessary. Concerned that some people are saying these are hold sensitive and loud.
I forget exactly why, perhaps the .177 barrels are badly mfg. whatever the reason, the .22 just is more popular on rs2s.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,16179.0.html (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,16179.0.html)
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,808.0.html (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,808.0.html)
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+1 to what everyone else said. They've been very helpful to you. In MY opinion, if I were under the same circumstances as you, I would get a Crosman 1377 with the plastic stock upgrade. Plenty of power to control starlings up to 25 yards. Also quiet and user friendly for clustered neighborhoods. Plus you can control it's power. 3 pumps for plinking and 6-10 for starling removal :D
Anyways hope I helped and glad to see you've joined this excellent forum.
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I'm worried about you shoting up, and the pellet coming down on on eof the neighbors behind the habitat. responsible pesting requires your target to have a backdrop that deosnot put anyone at danger.
After reading what althawk wrote "what goes up must come down" and "Pythagorean theorem" I won't be shooting up, unless of course I become a pro :D at shooting and looks like that will be awhile.
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...Lots of people have liked their walmart rs2's with the .22 barrel at just around 700fps (935fps w/ .177).
Thats approximately 15-16fpe more power then i believe is necessary. Concerned that some people are saying these are hold sensitive and loud.
Ok I'm going to scratch that, I definitely don't want something loud and hold sensitive. :)
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+1 to what everyone else said. They've been very helpful to you. In MY opinion, if I were under the same circumstances as you, I would get a Crosman 1377 with the plastic stock upgrade. Plenty of power to control starlings up to 25 yards. Also quiet and user friendly for clustered neighborhoods. Plus you can control it's power. 3 pumps for plinking and 6-10 for starling removal :D
Anyways hope I helped and glad to see you've joined this excellent forum.
Thank you and this is an amazing forum with a lot of great information, everyone here has been extremely helpful!!!
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Per Lizzies advise on the martin forum I did visit a pawn shop already once, where I almost bought Gamo Varmint Hunter .177 1200 in a case brand new looking for $100. But then when the guy started asking and finding out what I'm planning to use it for, I guess he thougth that I might be too dangerous with it, he told me that he didn't want me to hit anyone with it, because if someone got hurt it could come back to his shop. I really can't blame him and now since I've found this forum I know I will get better and will buy rifle (or two:)) that is perfect for me. Thank you for the welcome!
[/quote]
Leila...
I have a 4 year old Gamo Varmint Hunter in .177, and it is indeed a hard hitting rifle. However, it's also an extremely accurate one. Mine came with a scope, small flashlight and a laser pointer. It's light weight, easy to cock and load and the shot cycle is smooth. It's a shame he wouldn't sell it to you. I'm NOT suggesting this but I suppose you could get a friend to buy it then "loan" it to you. Some newer Gamo's have quality issues so examine them closely. The older ones have a metal trigger and those are more desireable.
Good luck
Larry
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Benjamin 397 & Air Rifle Scope Combo $259.97
(https://www.pyramydair.com/images/Benjamin-392-Combo-Scope_Benjamin-392_rifle_lg.jpg)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/benjamin-397-air-rifle-scope-combo?m=1430 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/benjamin-397-air-rifle-scope-combo?m=1430)
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Greetings Leila, and Welcome to the GTA!
I have read everyones threads and your's most specifically. I understand you will be shooting at less than 25 yards (75 feet), at small birds. And U have neighbors. You want accuracy, which I think you are smart to put THAT first.
You don't need a lot of power for your needs. A lower powered airgun will be enough, and will be more comfortable for you to practice with too. And that'll make you want to use it more. You will get accurate only with practice, of course.
Illinois Law has airgun power restrictions too. So you may wanna look at 700fps or less in .177 calibre only. No .22 calibre. Just to stay away from legal questions. Birds only weighs ounces, and anything over 2lbs of energy (FPE), will handle them.
I didn't see it mentioned (forgive if I'm wrong), but there is a one cock pneumatic that is easy to shoot, very quiet, and lower power, and will be as accurate as you, with practice. Again, whatever you buy, you have to put the time into getting to know it. Check out the Daisy 953 and a good quality dome pellet combination. The Daisy 953 is target quality accuracy,most importantly. 500fps is more than powerful enough for your bird, or bust a squirrel occasionally, backyard shooting. At $72.00, it won't break the bank. There are many owners here at GTA who can help you with their thoughts on the 953. Here is a Link:
RIFLE - https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-powerline-953-targetpro?m=585 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-powerline-953-targetpro?m=585)
PELLET Any dome that is in the 7.9g weight or a little less. You can get these at Wmart as well, but I added the link so you could see them. Just a starting point. As you shoot it more, you may wanna try different pellets, that's a part of the fun! ;)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-premier-177-cal-7-9-grains-hollowpoint-500ct?p=318 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-premier-177-cal-7-9-grains-hollowpoint-500ct?p=318)
Sorry this got long...Welcome, and enjoy winter practicing for spring hunting! ;)
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I had considered mentioning the daisy 953 due to its accuracy.
To me it seems a lil on the low side for fpe. (but the accuracy...can't be ignored)
I have yet to buy a 953, but its definitely on my short list to get.
Its a single pump and therefore not a springer (not hold sensitive). Also supposed to be fairly quiet.
Similiar in function (but not design) to my single pump beeman p17 pistols (~2.6fpe , 389 fps) and at 10m i could probably hit a starling somewhere on the head/neck consistantly (8/10 times) with it if i take my time to aim properly, and the starling's head stays in position for more than 3 sec. A scoped 953 would increase my chances significantly at hitting that starling head at 10m-20m, its gonna be a bit more fpe than the pistol (~3.6 fpe based on 7.9gr 453 fps). So your right it should be considered.
However,
Reading the purple martin forums, several people were having trouble with 6fpe (5x pumps on a 2100), whereas there were very few having trouble at 8 fpe (8+ pumps on a 2100) when it came to starlings. Seems like 6fpe and less was working just fine on the other winged pest euro house sparrows just not so much on the starlings. Maybe its an issue with accuracy, pellets over penetrating (or not expanding on impact), extreme distance shots, or starlings are super resilient i don't know. They were having to double tap, when they wanted only 1 or having zombie fly offs at around 6fpe on starlings. Plus they didn't like how much louder it sounded when they pumped it up 8x. Some complained that was too loud, others didn't think it was loud *shrug*.
Crosman 2100 (airmaster77)
[pumps = about this much fpe generally]
1 1 fpe
2 2.43 << Beeman p17
3 3.6 << Daisy 953
4 4.75 ----5.5+ fpe 392/397/streak, stock, 3x pumps.
5 5.7 *quiet* << Crosman 1377, stock, 10x pumps,*loud*.
6 6.6
7 7.25 << Daisy 880, 10x pumps (more like 7.7fpe)
8 8 *loud* << Beeman r7 & 392/397/streak, 5x pumps. *quiet*
9 8.5
10 = 8.9 fpe --------------*LOUD*-----------------------
11 fpe << 397, stock, 8x pumps. *LOUD*
12 fpe << streaks, stock, 8x pumps. *LOUD*
13 fpe << 392, stock, 8x pumps. *LOUD*
15 fpe << Beeman RS2 *loud*
20 fpe << steroided 392, mod-steroid, 14x pumps.
+ Crosman Titan NP
Purple martin forum people suggest starting at 3x pumps (near 6fpe) on 392/397/streaks, moving to 5x pumps (8fpe) and very rarely going to the full 8x pumps.
On crosman 2100 they suggest starting at 5x pumps (near 6fpe), then moving to 8x pumps (8fpe). As you can see there isn't much reason to pump 9x or 10x times. only 10% more power, louder, and 2 more pumps, which are harder to pump then the previous 8x pumps.
Beeman R7 and 2100(airmaster77)) will get the job done. Benjamin/sheridans will get it done, with power to spare.
the R7 is REALLY quiet for a springer, soda can opening quiet at least according to this: http://www.straightshooters.com/documents/decibelrating.html (http://www.straightshooters.com/documents/decibelrating.html)
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kymike is right, pellets and finding the right pellet for your air rifle is the next hurdle.
Which reminds me: domed, pointed hollowpoints, and at close range wadcutters. Pointed pellets will most likely over penetrate on a starling. Domed (and wadcutters at close range) will really deliver a shock, basically make it really hard for them to fly away.
Domed:
RWS superdomes: http://www.walmart.com/ip/RWS-Superdome-.177-Pellets-Field-Line/17133143 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/RWS-Superdome-.177-Pellets-Field-Line/17133143)
Beeman FTS-Field Target Specials (aka H&N FTT): http://www.straightshooters.com/beeman/bpfts.html (http://www.straightshooters.com/beeman/bpfts.html)
Pointed Hollowpoints:
Predator Polymag: https://www.pyramydair.com/product/predator-polymag-177-cal-8-0-grains-pointed-200ct?p=352 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/predator-polymag-177-cal-8-0-grains-pointed-200ct?p=352)
Crosman Destroyer (Destroyer EX @walmart): https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-destroyer-177-cal-7-9-grains-pointed-250ct?p=532 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-destroyer-177-cal-7-9-grains-pointed-250ct?p=532)
Destroyer EX's and the crosman premier hollowpoints are both cheap, worth looking at first since you should be able to get them at walmart. The german made RWS, H&N beemans are pretty much better quality, slightly more expensive. Polymags are hunting pellets and priced high, probably to high.
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I was referring to the FPE at 25 yards, not the muzzle. I say that at 25yards the Daisy 953 should still have well over 2lbs energy with a quality 7.4 - 7.9g domed pellet. I like to look at FPE numbers at different ranges, rather than straight from the muzzle. The crosman pellet is just a starter pellet, and is cheap to practice with.
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Althawk, you need to go and get yourself a 953. You'll like it. The basic stats just don't do it full justice. I wonder about what the folks you speak about, are using for starlings. They are easy to take with a body shot. No difference to me.
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Greetings Leila, and Welcome to the GTA!
....Illinois Law has airgun power restrictions too. So you may wanna look at 700fps or less in .177 calibre only. No .22 calibre. Just to stay away from legal questions... Check out the Daisy 953 and a good quality dome pellet combination.
Thank you!!! Oh that Illinois and all its silly regulations ;), thank you for that tip btw! I'll check out Daisy as well! :)
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Yeah, it's a dumb thing, but it is what it is.
Leila, I didn't mention that the Daisy 953, also has a 5 shot clip so that you can use it as a 5 shot repeater! You can buy more clips, and they are dirt cheap (because they're pretty simple little things). Naturally, it can also be used as a single shot, if you want to.
Just cock, index and shoot again! Very handy for them pesty ones.
Also, you may wanna check out the "JSB Exact" pellets for it.
Glad you Enjoyed! Mike
Link to Daisy 5 shot Magazine (5 for $5.00):
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-magazines-for-daisy-match-grade-avanti-853c-and-953?a=337 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-magazines-for-daisy-match-grade-avanti-853c-and-953?a=337)
Link to JSB Diabolo Exact Pellets:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/jsb-match-diabolo-exact-177-cal-8-4-grains-domed-500ct-4-52mm?p=261 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/jsb-match-diabolo-exact-177-cal-8-4-grains-domed-500ct-4-52mm?p=261)
Edit: If you order from Pyramid Air and your total order is $100.00+ ; S/H is free. Also, when you order pellets, if you order 3 tins, (mix or match), you also get 1 additional tin (1 of the lowest priced in your order), for free. I figured I'd throw that in, as you may not know about it. It's a good deal.
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Hey guess what everyone ;) I already got Crosman 1377! This morning I was on my way to the office and I saw a garage sale, so I stopped and this guy was selling all these different guns, mostly they were paint guns (I wouldn't know but he told me... lol), so I about to leave but then I saw pistol type of looking gun that he wanted $10, so I bought it. I guess now I have an after shot covered. ;D I'll try it out probably on Sunday!
Then on line I found "100 shot benjamin bb air rifle" for $50, ad says that it's probably 45 years old. I don't know much about it, but I think it be would fun to just have it. :)
(http://images.craigslist.org/3m33p63lc5Q05Z35R2b98e4fde8e28bdc13bc.jpg)
(http://images.craigslist.org/3mf3o93l55W15U35P1b98ce0fadd0c95d1c94.jpg)
And Beeman rs2 for $75 no pic though...
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I've skimmed this thread and one thing really stands out. You live in very close proximity to your nieghbors, especially those in the line of fire. As unpopular as this will sound, I would NOT recommend trying to shoot pest birds at any angle other than where a sufficiently large backstop will intercept the pellets. You MUST stop the pellets from crossing into your neighbors' yards, be they clear misses or, in the case of birds, pass-throughs. Hit someone or a house and you can find yourself in court. Then who will feed the birds?
They recently passed a state law in Virginia which over-rides local laws prohibiting shooting air guns on your own property. BUT, so far as I know, the local ordinances against hitting someone's house (and in my county that's a firearms felony!) still carry weight, since the law states you must have a reasonable backstop.
If you feel that you must shoot the predatory birds, please use a ground-based backstop, preferably a good sized lean-to that will redirect pellets into the ground. Especially shooting anything that's over 600 fps.
OK, guys, you can flame me now, but it's better safe than sorry in the back of a cruiser. Think I'm too wary? Go check out the thread on the Back Room where a fellow wound up exactly in this predicament.
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This is my martin housing set up, would be able to do something to make it safer? :)
(http://www.purplemartinresearch.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=13&pictureid=151)
(http://www.purplemartinresearch.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=13&pictureid=152)
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Just got a Daisy 850... seems like the 1982-84 version of the 953, w/o the muzzleweight(brake).
Supposed to get 480 fps on par with the 953, think its safe to assume same (or very similiar) power-plant as 953?
Only thing I'm worried about is it had like 30x copper bbs and 6 steel bbs, still in its bb magazine.
Checked out the rifling as best I could, it does not seem to be worn using the ol'eyeball test.
Took the stock off already to clean, and the biggest surprise for me was that the plasticy seeming receiver was actually metal.
Might scope it later.
Cleaned it up, oiled the piston, going to give it a whirl sometime this week. Very nice build quality. The stock's a plastic joke, but the assembly is well thought out.
Also picked up an old, new looking 2100 for $20. Gonna have to give that one an inspection, cleaning and also test it out.
The prize accusation, a pre-1975 crosman mk II.
Now i just need time to figure out what i've got and after that I'll be able to go after a nice silver streak and maybe be satisfied then (til I catch PCP fever?).
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Leila,
The 1377 for $10 is nice. even if its not functional, you got a great deal there.
The benji is nice. This is the point where I should tell you that you've caught air gun fever. BB guns are usually not too accurate.
The rs2 for $75. Theres the risk the owner has dry-fired it a few times, a big no-no on springers. Usually people selling on an airgun classified will know better than to dry-fire. Plus i thought you'd decided against a rs2 series due to loudness.
Also, maybe i'm missing something here, but I think for the most part people on this forum have steered you: away from shooting upward, being aware of whats behind your target (and potentially could be hit), the importance of having a backstop (be it ground, pellet trap), and in general better safety for both you and your neighbors.
At least you're on the right track. Oh by the way on the subject of safety... safety glasses. Get a pair $4-15. Even pellets can ricochote (bounce back, boomerang). Had one land at my feet somehow one time (think it hit a pellet already in the pellet trap, got deflected at an angle and arced towards me), i was glad i was wearing glasses and a lil spooked.
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Hey guess what everyone ;) I already got Crosman 1377! This morning I was on my way to the office and I saw a garage sale, so I stopped and this guy was selling all these different guns, mostly they were paint guns (I wouldn't know but he told me... lol), so I about to leave but then I saw pistol type of looking gun that he wanted $10, so I bought it. I guess now I have an after shot covered. ;D I'll try it out probably on Sunday!
Then on line I found "100 shot benjamin bb air rifle" for $50, ad says that it's probably 45 years old. I don't know much about it, but I think it be would fun to just have it. :)
...
gracious- leila's caught the bug! ;D
Just kidding you- welcome to the club. ;D
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Now look what you did, Lizzie. ;D
Leila, welcome to the GTA. I just want to add that you can legally have any speed .177 cal in IL, (yes, over 700fps is fine) just not a .22 without a FOID card here in IL. Easy enough to get, just 12 bucks and 30 days time to process. It sounds like you're leaning towards the lower power rifles, and I see Lizzie and others have steered you in the right direction. Nice find with that 1377, and the Benjamin looks great!
We'll be looking forward to your posts on how well it goes, and these guys and gals are a wealth of information here, as you know by now. ;)
Stephen
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An older coleman crosman 2100.
Pumping it is alot like my sheridan, and seems heftier (heavier) then the airmaster77's i've shot.
Giving it some pellgunoil overnight to see if it'll shoot or need a reseal. Design hasn't changed significantly in ~30 years, thought the materials used has.
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Used to own a old 397 .22 pump and that darn thing was a tack driver and had some good power at 6 pumps.. kind of miss it heck I even miss my ruger air hawk I had before my bigcat
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Yeah, it's a dumb thing, but it is what it is.
Leila, I didn't mention that the Daisy 953, also has a 5 shot clip so that you can use it as a 5 shot repeater! You can buy more clips, and they are dirt cheap (because they're pretty simple little things). Naturally, it can also be used as a single shot, if you want to.
Just cock, index and shoot again! Very handy for them pesty ones.
I really like that idea, not having to reload! And maybe by the fifth time I'll be able to hit the target too. :)
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Leila,
The 1377 for $10 is nice. even if its not functional, you got a great deal there.
The benji is nice. This is the point where I should tell you that you've caught air gun fever. BB guns are usually not too accurate.
The rs2 for $75. Theres the risk the owner has dry-fired it a few times, a big no-no on springers. Usually people selling on an airgun classified will know better than to dry-fire. Plus i thought you'd decided against a rs2 series due to loudness...
At least you're on the right track. Oh by the way on the subject of safety... safety glasses. Get a pair $4-15. Even pellets can ricochote (bounce back, boomerang). Had one land at my feet somehow one time (think it hit a pellet already in the pellet trap, got deflected at an angle and arced towards me), i was glad i was wearing glasses and a lil spooked.
Thank you! And I am going to get safety glasses today! I already had a pellet bounce back at me while I was trying my crosman in the basement. My basement is not finished, so put a cardboard box in front of cement wall and tried to see if I could hit the black and orange sticker targets. I was hitting every where but the target for a while and one must have hit above the cardboard because it came back right at me, it sure scared me. So then I decided to hang a blanket onto my pull up bar that I have bolted to the ceiling and put the cardboard box in front it. That ended up working well! At the end I've found pellets stuck everywhere, in the blanket, in the box, and eventually in the target. ;D I even managed to hit a bulls eye twice and quite a few times close to the bulls eye... yay! So you are right I definitely caught an air gun fever! :)
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Now look what you did, Lizzie. ;D
Leila, welcome to the GTA. I just want to add that you can legally have any speed .177 cal in IL, (yes, over 700fps is fine) just not a .22 without a FOID card here in IL. Easy enough to get, just 12 bucks and 30 days time to process. It sounds like you're leaning towards the lower power rifles, and I see Lizzie and others have steered you in the right direction. Nice find with that 1377, and the Benjamin looks great!
We'll be looking forward to your posts on how well it goes, and these guys and gals are a wealth of information here, as you know by now. ;)
Stephen
Thank you!
Yep, it's all Lizzies fault, ;) when she invited me here she 'must've forgot' ;D to mention that this air gunning business is highly addictive... jk I think FOID card is in my near future, sounds easy so I might as well have it. I've also looked into shooting ranges and it looks like there are seven of them near where I live, I'll have to look into them on Monday!
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Secret for a quiet pellet trap and at least for me has made collecting used pellets very easy.
Duct Seal (don't confuse it with duct sealant, found in the plumber's aisle)
Duct seal is used by electricians, so look for it in that aisle at Home Depot, Lowes, Ace hardware...etc.
Duct sealant can work too, but its dries up in about a month, whereas Duct Seal dries at a much slower rate.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100212441/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 (http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100212441/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)
Basically get a box, but in a square piece of metal/wood that covers the bottom, then lay the bricks of duct seal on top of the metal/wood (10-30 bricks).
Once you start getting more accurate you'll notice a crater of lead pellets in the center. Either smack another brick on the center or press the duct seal back into a level surface.
When I first made my own pellet trap, I went out and got some duct sealant and poured it into an old aluminum pie pan. Which i then placed on top of some 2x4's with duct tape. Didn't take very long for the back of the pie pan to look like a volcano and for the wood to get full of lead.
That wasn't going to work for me so, still using duct sealant, i made another trap.
This time i tried having layers of sealant reinforced with cardboard paper, to thicken the center, and have some metal sheeting in the rear. It held up a lot better, but still after awhile the sealant had started to dry up and I was getting a crater in the center. My options were buy more duct sealant to fill in the crater, or make a new trap.
*Believe this was the trap that was involved in the ricochet that landed near me*
So 3rd time around, went out and got duct seal.
It cost about as much in material costs, but its already out lasted my other pellet traps.
Plus duct seal is much easier to work with (kind of like moist clay).
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Leila,
If you haven't already, cram that box full with junkmail, phonebooks, newspapers, things like that. This will keep the pellets inside the box, so they stay there, instead of whizzing right through it.
Try to keep the power level down to just 3-4 pumps on that for now, until you get the sights adjusted, and start hitting the target consistently. The 1377, if it has iron sights, you can adjust up or down, and left to right to get the pellet on target. Small screw on the back is for elevation, and the large screw that looks like it only holds the site on the tube is the left/right adjustment, as that hole is slotted somewhat. Simply loosen a tiny bit, and it should move.
Yes, get safety glasses.. Try them on if you can, as many are uncomfortable. Home Depot, etc. have several kinds, and gun stores will raise the prices on things like that, so it pays to look around. Your target already shot back once! 8)
Stephen
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2nd the used phonebooks.
You remember seeing all those free newspapers at the entrances to restaurants and grocery stores? Next time you're out on the town, grab a stack.
Agree with Cliffhanger, ya don't really have to pump a 1377 all the way up.
When we say safety glasses, we don't mean those ones you used in chemistry or biology.
Think we can ALL agree those safety goggles were annoying. (see the 1st pic)
You want polycarbonate something or other... hard lenses. Quite a few of the newer ones have uv coating. I think i saw somewhere some fancy ones online that looked like sunglasses and could be used as such in a pinch.
http://www.coopersafety.com/safetyglasses.aspx (http://www.coopersafety.com/safetyglasses.aspx)
These are the ones crosman and others sell cheap, only this is cheaper (if you ignore s/h):
http://www.coopersafety.com/product/aosafety-virtua-safety-glasses-1185.aspx (http://www.coopersafety.com/product/aosafety-virtua-safety-glasses-1185.aspx)
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Leila, welcome to the GTA. I just want to add that you can legally have any speed .177 cal in IL, (yes, over 700fps is fine) just not a .22 without a FOID card here in IL.
Stephen
Stephen, Leila, and Illinois GTA Members:
Here is the Illinois State definition of a firearm, provided by the I.S.P. It is quite clear on the .177 & 700 fps issue. Stephen, you have to take notice of the 700FPS maximum.
What is the definition of a firearm according to the FOID Act?
"Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding however:
(1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or B-B gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;
(2) any device used exclusively for signalling or safety and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission;
(3) any device used exclusively for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition; and
(4) an antique firearm (other than a machine-gun) which, although designed as a weapon, the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.
If it is FASTER than 700fps, in the .177 size,,,then it IS a firearm. The owner must possess or get a FOID. Also the firearm must be registered with the I.S.P. Let's make sure our posts are accurate for everyone.
Here's the Illinois State Police Link concerning FOID questions:
http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm (http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm)
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.177, under 700 fps at the muzzle?
With light weight pellets, isn't that fairly easy with even a crosman 2100?
Had not realized it was so bad in Illinois.
Does canada have 495 fps limit or an fpe limit (like britain/germany)?
If 700 fps is your max, you might have to get an underpowered, canadian version of an airgun.
Is the R7 safe for use in illinois?
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2010/09/the-beeman-r7-part-2/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2010/09/the-beeman-r7-part-2/)
RWS Hobby, 7.0 gr was getting "spread went from 661 to 687"
A second chronograph of the same gun, same pellets gave a spread of "649 to 666 fps"
I would imagine it'd be easy to break 700fps with those 5.4gr Gamo Raptors.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/gamo-raptor-pba-177-cal-5-4-grains-round-nose-100ct?p=399 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/gamo-raptor-pba-177-cal-5-4-grains-round-nose-100ct?p=399)
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Sounds like the Crosman 1377 is right up your alley then :)
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That 1377, with a stock a new barrel, a muzzle brake for recoil, and a scope and you'll be safely killing birds inno time.
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Recoil? Muzzlebreak? What do you think this is, a Smith & Wesson 500 Magnum? Lol
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Well considering the 700 fps limit...
I'll reconsider the Daisy 850/853/753/953 platform that kymike and others recommend highly.
Even with a mediocre 4x15 crosman scope I was able to get the below with crosman premier hollow points on the Daisy 850, over 10 shots.
With a better scope, better pellets I should be able to tighten the grouping up even more (pennies vs quarters).
Should be able to reliably get head/neck shots on starlings at 10m with any of these, since they are essentially the same (the 853/753 have better barrels, are they worth the cost for pesting? no). Just get a better scope then what i used. This things annoying to look thru.
Plus as others have said, its quiet. I was expecting p17 quiet, but this things quieter.
The 1377 you have is under 700fps. So you're good to go there.
There is a carbine version sold in Canada, 1389 Backpacker (the .22 version is 2289).
Its at I believe 495 fps limit.
http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews89778.html (http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews89778.html)
You could convert your $10 1377 into a 1389...
Just need a longer crosman barrel, 1399 shoulder stock, 1389 pump arm (or stick with the 1377 pumparm), maybe a crosman steel breech.
http://www.crosman.com/gear/custom (http://www.crosman.com/gear/custom)
There u can see the shoulder stock and steel breeches.
Theres currently a 15% off online coupon code in the bargain gate.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,18274.0.html (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,18274.0.html)
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Recoil? Muzzlebreak? What do you think this is, a Smith & Wesson 500 Magnum? Lol
Not at all, but if youaim at my faceand hit me in the belly with the S&W you still kill me. With a pellet on a 3 inch bird, you better be on target. They make brakes for a reason and it's not just becausethey look cool. Certainly not nessesary, but it'll help, especially with a slightly longer barrel and a stock.
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Its always funny to me how much more then the gun the normal mods are for the 1377.
Kind of why I've given up on mine.
Its a great gun, modular... just for specific tasks there are better.
Now the 1322 when it finally comes back this fall... If its priced near the current 1377, i'll probably pick one up plus a shoulder stock. Unless crosman re-releases the 2289 in the U.S. *drooL*(no fps limited version).
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I've got a Daisy 953. It chonos at around 400 fps. That might be marginal for birds by the time they're 10 yards away or further. I googled it up before buying mine and found a post in a New Zealand airgun forum and one bloke said it was pretty good for birds at short range, so maybe it'd be OK! It's a really great little gun for target shooting, even if it doesen't pan out as a pest killer.
The 1377 is a great little gun too. I think Leila should invest the $25 or whatever and get a shoulder stock for it right away. Be aware that to properly mount a scope on it requires that a steel breech be ordered from Crosman, and they're out of stock quite often... Also, this is a 500 fps gun with real world pellets. (despite Crosman's marketing claim of 600 fps) Skenco's 4 gr. pellets work pretty well and I believe are over 600 fps from this. But then it requires 10 pumps to get to that level. I don't know if Leila's up for that. She'd have to sight in at one range for 10 pumps and bird shooting, and 3-5 pumps for target shooting. Don't get me wrong, I like mine, but all that pumping can get old in a hurry.
The Crosman 2100 is a neat little gun, but again with all that pumping. 3 pumps for target shooting at close range isn't bad. But they'll shoot about the same with 3 pumps as the Daisy 953 with it's single pump. They may not be easy to find in IL, since they're advertised as a 725 fps gun. Too bad, because realistically, they're not that fast.
Some is selling a pair of scoped Crosman 1077s in the Classifieds right now; one of those might be perfect, if Leila doesn't mind buying CO2. I think they shoot around 600 fps, right?
I think we're probably over-analyzing things now. (as usual, hehehe)
Leila and I are going to meet up at the local airgun range and she can try my rifles in a couple of weeks. Maybe she can hold off buying any more guns (it's hard, I know!) until she tries out a few rifles in the different categories at the range. I bet she's going to LOVE the 953.
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Yeah I would imagine she is gonna love it.
Have you taken the plastic stock off yet and seen the assembly in its entirety?
Did that on my 850... was very impressed (open mouthed shock). Daisy needs to bring that kinda engineering, quality control back to their other airguns.
Its like eating at Fuddruckers when all you've ever had for a burger joint is a White Castle.
About the only con with respect to design in a 953 is that flat hand grip in the stock. Why is it like that?
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Leila and I are going to meet up at the local airgun range and she can try my rifles in a couple of weeks. Maybe she can hold off buying any more guns (it's hard, I know!) until she tries out a few rifles in the different categories at the range. I bet she's going to LOVE the 953.
That is soooo cool! ;D
leila is my buddy from one of the purple martins, and I think it's great of you to take her under your wing. Kudos to you Jeremy. :)
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The 1377 you have is under 700fps. So you're good to go there.
You could convert your $10 1377 into a 1389...
Just need a longer crosman barrel, 1399 shoulder stock, 1389 pump arm (or stick with the 1377 pumparm), maybe a crosman steel breech.
http://www.crosman.com/gear/custom (http://www.crosman.com/gear/custom)
That looks nice! Thank you for the idea... I think like it! ;D
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Its always funny to me how much more then the gun the normal mods are for the 1377.
Kind of why I've given up on mine.
Its a great gun, modular... just for specific tasks there are better.
Now the 1322 when it finally comes back this fall... If its priced near the current 1377, i'll probably pick one up plus a shoulder stock. Unless crosman re-releases the 2289 in the U.S. *drooL*(no fps limited version).
I wonder why they no longer offer 2289?
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The 1377 is a great little gun too. I think Leila should invest the $25 or whatever and get a shoulder stock for it right away. Be aware that to properly mount a scope on it requires that a steel breech be ordered from Crosman, and they're out of stock quite often...
Sounds good to me! :)
Also, this is a 500 fps gun with real world pellets. (despite Crosman's marketing claim of 600 fps) Skenco's 4 gr. pellets work pretty well and I believe are over 600 fps from this. But then it requires 10 pumps to get to that level. I don't know if Leila's up for that. She'd have to sight in at one range for 10 pumps and bird shooting, and 3-5 pumps for target shooting. Don't get me wrong, I like mine, but all that pumping can get old in a hurry.
Since I have a such limitations on what type of air gun I can own due to my residence, my idea is to have many air rifles, :) have them all ready pumped up and then shoot when the birds show up, usualy very early in the morning! Unless that is too silly, and I don't know what I'm talking about...
Some is selling a pair of scoped Crosman 1077s in the Classifieds right now; one of those might be perfect, if Leila doesn't mind buying CO2. I think they shoot around 600 fps, right?
I don't know anything about CO2 ;D I'll try library...
Leila and I are going to meet up at the local airgun range and she can try my rifles in a couple of weeks. Maybe she can hold off buying any more guns (it's hard, I know!) until she tries out a few rifles in the different categories at the range. I bet she's going to LOVE the 953.
It's not just hard, it's super hard ok...;D, but I know I totally should wait, even though I want to have an air rifle collection right now, I should not go crazy and buy every available of the Craig's list no matter how reasonable the price is!
Before I joined this forum, anyone could have convinced to buy just about any type of air rifle. But just a few days on this forum and already it would not be that easy. So, thanks everyone!!!
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Leila and I are going to meet up at the local airgun range and she can try my rifles in a couple of weeks. Maybe she can hold off buying any more guns (it's hard, I know!) until she tries out a few rifles in the different categories at the range. I bet she's going to LOVE the 953.
That is soooo cool! ;D
leila is my buddy from one of the purple martins, and I think it's great of you to take her under your wing. Kudos to you Jeremy. :)
I know! I really lucked out to find someone nearby in the same state and be able to test the rifles. But you did actually tell me this part, that everyone here is pretty amazing and always willing to help. ;)
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I know! I really lucked out to find someone nearby in the same state and be able to test the rifles. But you did actually tell me this part, that everyone here is pretty amazing and always willing to help. ;)
Yes ma'am- this is a good place to be. :)
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If you haven't already, cram that box full with junkmail, phonebooks, newspapers, things like that. This will keep the pellets inside the box, so they stay there, instead of whizzing right through it.
Try to keep the power level down to just 3-4 pumps on that for now, until you get the sights adjusted, and start hitting the target consistently. The 1377, if it has iron sights, you can adjust up or down, and left to right to get the pellet on target. Small screw on the back is for elevation, and the large screw that looks like it only holds the site on the tube is the left/right adjustment, as that hole is slotted somewhat. Simply loosen a tiny bit, and it should move.
Stephen
Stephen,
Thank you for the tip about filling up the box, I get so much junk mail and all kinds of catalogs, now all that junk can be actually useful to me. :)
And I did noticed the screw in the back, when the guy was selling it to me he told me that everything should be in a line and the middle part that what should focus on the target, he never told me about moving it, maybe I'll play with it and if I can't get it then I'll just put it back the way it is now.
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Ahh gosh... Co2 guns...
one word: seals. (no not the endangered baby seals)
two words: weather dependent (work well in warm weather, not well in winter)
youtube:
three words: buy co2 (carbon dioxide).
Pistols---------
Crosman 2240 (best value co2 pistol, .22 cal., single shot)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y49p_OCxUoI&feature=related#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y49p_OCxUoI&feature=related#ws)
Benjamin EB22 ( c02 pistol, .22 cal., single-shot)
what not to do with an air gun...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUsVCX5VWF4#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUsVCX5VWF4#ws)
don't shoot glass... should be obvious why.
Crosman 357 (repeater, c02 pistol, .177 cal, 10x shots per clip)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iED19_-BGhw# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iED19_-BGhw#)
Theres alot of co2 pistols, some are bb only, some are bb/pellet smooth bore, some are bb/pellet rifled bore... Daisy and Gamo make some models that are ok, but i can't remember which model #'s are the good ones.
Rifles-----------
Crosman 160 & its clone QB78/TF78:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/tech-force-tf78-gold-series-air-rifle?m=2324 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/tech-force-tf78-gold-series-air-rifle?m=2324)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDzkAEPnZ6g# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDzkAEPnZ6g#)
Crosman 1077 (repeater, c02 rifle, .177 cal., 12 shot clip)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-1077-air-rifle?m=204 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-1077-air-rifle?m=204)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVI_KnVKpMg&feature=related# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVI_KnVKpMg&feature=related#)
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Daisy 953:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJGOG6IUxsg#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJGOG6IUxsg#ws)
interesting voice.
Crosman 1389:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYLiZ65nsVI# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYLiZ65nsVI#)
Cringed at the nutcracker scene...
Watch this guys other videos!!! This guys got-a-lot-a airguns :)
Crosman 2100 / Airmaster77
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCP2o8SikPE# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCP2o8SikPE#)
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That is soooo cool! ;D
leila is my buddy from one of the purple martins, and I think it's great of you to take her under your wing. Kudos to you Jeremy. :)
Tyler (Tpatner412) took me under his wing not too long ago. Time to pay it forward.
Great videos you dug up, Althawk. Thanks. The Norwegian fellow has a nice collection indeed. I enjoyed his take on our cheap American airguns. I just left him a comment on his channel that he should try out the Daisy 953 and Benjamin Marauder to sample some of America's nicer airguns. ;)
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Thank you for the video althawk! :)
Daisy 953:
.....
Daisy 953… trainer gun… basement… acorns (that look like sparrows), that sounds really good! He says that it has an internal trigger modification, I probably would want to do it, but then he says that if you do it wrong rifle won’t work… The other part that I didn’t get is that on his rifle he had “Daisy d…. sight” and not factory installed, not sure what that is…?
Crosman 2100 / Airmaster77
.....
What is interesting about this Crosman 2100, if I’m understanding it correctly you can put not one but many (17/18) pellets at one time…?
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Leila, generally, those pellet rifles that load many pellets in a tube feed, usually only work with flat nose (wadcutter) type pellets. Domes or hollowpoint or Pointed pellets can create a feed problem. My vote is still with the 953. And a 5 pack of extra magazines. ;)
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Daisy Diopter Sights
they're almost as much as the rifle:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-match-grade-avanti-precision-diopter-sight?a=1212 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-match-grade-avanti-precision-diopter-sight?a=1212)
They come on the fancy 853CM
http://www.amazon.com/Daisy-Avanti-853CM-air-rifle/dp/B001BS7G0M/ref=pd_sbs_sg1 (http://www.amazon.com/Daisy-Avanti-853CM-air-rifle/dp/B001BS7G0M/ref=pd_sbs_sg1)
put diopter sights on a 953, and its look a lot like an 853... at less then half the cost.
Add: http://www.amazon.com/Daisy-Globe-Front-Insert-Dovetail/dp/B0036JZ3BS/ref=pd_sbs_sg9 (http://www.amazon.com/Daisy-Globe-Front-Insert-Dovetail/dp/B0036JZ3BS/ref=pd_sbs_sg9)
Add: walther barrel... ~$60+
And your 953 is now a 853.
another sighting option is the Daisy 5899 peep sight:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-5899-peep-sight?a=320 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-5899-peep-sight?a=320)
similiar concept to the diopter, cheaper. I've seen some photos online of a peep-sight with an old black plastic film cannister glued to the peep...try to find those photos for ya..
Notice how similiar the peep is to the diopter in design and function, but is half the cost...
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here it is... simple diy mods to a peep sight: http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1226788119/Simple+cheap+improvement+for+Williams+peep+sights (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1226788119/Simple+cheap+improvement+for+Williams+peep+sights)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diopter_sight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diopter_sight)
If u get diopter sights you should get a front sight that works well with it.
I'm sure someone can pipe in with why peeps/diopters are so popular/effective.
(no, not marshmallow peeps)
Still you might just get a scope, cause of that zoom feature most models have. Especially beyond 10m.
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The trigger mod he's refering to is i believe called "Pilk guns trigger mod"
(aka pilk-trigger)
http://www.pilkguns.com/daisy853tm.shtml (http://www.pilkguns.com/daisy853tm.shtml)
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The crosman 2100 is single-shot with pellets.
It does have a BB-magazine... so it can carry a bunch of BBs (20?30?50?100?) at one time. I have never shot bb's out of an airmaster77 so i can't tell you if its possible to trick a few extra into the barrel and shot it like an airshotgun. Its not really a repeater.
The crosman 1077 is a repeater though. It functions very similiarly to a revolver (in fact i'm gonna go ahead and say it is a rifle-revolver).
Notice how quickly that british kid went thru the pellet clip on his 1077 (normal 1077 has 12 pellets in a clip).
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The trigger mod he's refering to is i believe called "Pilk guns trigger mod"
(aka pilk-trigger)
http://www.pilkguns.com/daisy853tm.shtml (http://www.pilkguns.com/daisy853tm.shtml)
Ok that looks a little bit too complicated for me, plus I don' even have some of the tools needed for the project... :D
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The crosman 2100 is single-shot with pellets.
It does have a BB-magazine... so it can carry a bunch of BBs (20?30?50?100?) at one time. I have never shot bb's out of an airmaster77 so i can't tell you if its possible to trick a few extra into the barrel and shot it like an airshotgun. Its not really a repeater.
The crosman 1077 is a repeater though. It functions very similiarly to a revolver (in fact i'm gonna go ahead and say it is a rifle-revolver).
Notice how quickly that british kid went thru the pellet clip on his 1077 (normal 1077 has 12 pellets in a clip).
Thank you, :) I understand it better now!
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yeah I don't think I'll be doing that trigger mod either. I'd mess something up somehow.
Usually a trigger mod involves, messing with a spring (shortening it slightly) or sanding a bit off the sear, in order to simulate the natural wear that occurs with thousands of trigger pulls.
Basically you want your new trigger to be like that of an older, well-used airgun's trigger.
a little resistance, not too much, not to little.
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have you tried the peep sight on your 1377? See that part in the rear sight thats vertical and screwed in, well it can be flipped 180 degrees and that little hole in it becomes your peep.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/index.php?topic=16004.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/index.php?topic=16004.0)
Another airgun to consider, if moding isn't your thing is Crosman's Benjamin HB17 multipump airpistol. Its basically very similiar to the 1377, except all metal/wood. The Hb22 is the .22 cal version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3bavc6AxU# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3bavc6AxU#)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/benjamin-hb17?m=232 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/benjamin-hb17?m=232)
Main reasons people don't get this is, a) they can get a 1377 for less.
b) its not more powerful than a 1377.
c) there are very few ways to mod./improve it.
(Whereas a 1377 is has a lot of mods out there)
d) tons of reports claim pumping it is hard.
It has been my experience that after about 60 shots at 3-5x pumps (150-300 pumps), the pumping ceased to be stiff/hard and more like that of a 1377, so i don't think d is a valid con.
I think in stock form the benji is better, but the 1377 is to easy to mod to outperfom the benji.
Animal control uses the benji platform though...
http://www.gunauction.com/closed/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9300011.0 (http://www.gunauction.com/closed/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9300011.0)
http://shop.pneudart.com/air-activated/ (http://shop.pneudart.com/air-activated/)
Don't think the general public can or should get one of those...
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Don't get concerned about a stock 953 trigger just yet. It's not like the cheap springers, where it is guaranteed to have a heavy and gritty pull. I think the folks who complain about it are coming from target rifles costing a LOT more than the 953. To me, it is just a bit better than the trigger on the 1377 when you pump the 1377s. It is MILES better than the stock triggers on the less expensive Chinese-made guns.
I read all the reviews from users at Pyramyd on the 953 before buying mine. There were several who said they did the trigger mod and that it is a massive improvement. (i.e. from good to great) I may try it soon. The key with these kinds of mods, in which one removes material from mating surfaces in trigger mechanisms is to go slowly. Remove just a bit of a material at a time, and test the fit as you go. When you get the right fit, throw it back together and you're good to go.
By the way: diopter, peep, and aperture all mean the same thing when talking about sights.
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have you tried the peep sight on your 1377? See that part in the rear sight thats vertical and screwed in, well it can be flipped 180 degrees and that little hole in it becomes your peep.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/index.php?topic=16004.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/index.php?topic=16004.0)
Another airgun to consider, if moding isn't your thing is Crosman's Benjamin HB17 multipump airpistol. Its basically very similiar to the 1377, except all metal/wood...
No I haven't tried the peep sight on my 1377, but I will later today, because I finally got it how to do it ;D. In your link it says to shoot with both eyes open, I shoot by closing one eye... Benji HB17 is a nice pistol! :)
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I think in stock form the benji is better, but the 1377 is to easy to mod to outperfom the benji.
Animal control uses the benji platform though...
http://www.gunauction.com/closed/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9300011.0 (http://www.gunauction.com/closed/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9300011.0)
http://shop.pneudart.com/air-activated/ (http://shop.pneudart.com/air-activated/)
Don't think the general public can or should get one of those...
Now aren't these the Bomb......What fun I could have....... :)
I think we should all chip in an get Johnny Quest one of these set-ups...... :)
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Leila, nothing wrong with one eye closed. Just do it as you are ready to squeeze. EDIT: I say this so you get the maximum time from your peripheral vision, so it's for safety sake.
If you wear glasses, you can try blocking the lense of your other eye which will get you a little more used to not using that eye. Again, practice is more important now for muscle memory. If you are happy with 1 eye, go for it! (I do)!!! :)
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Did i post this already or not?
This a fairly well organized look at some diy mods for a daisy SSP (850/853/753/953)
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1203365739/Daisy+Powerline+953+problem-+Need+help (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1203365739/Daisy+Powerline+953+problem-+Need+help)
someone else posted this a year ago, as well as this:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,2176.msg38894.html#msg38894 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,2176.msg38894.html#msg38894)
new link for the daisy 853 repair powerpoint mentioned can be found here:
http://www.odcmp.com/Training/CoachingResources.htm (http://www.odcmp.com/Training/CoachingResources.htm)
http://www.odcmp.com/Training/CR/853Repair.ppt (http://www.odcmp.com/Training/CR/853Repair.ppt) - 36.2 mb power point file
Just watched the power point... wow... thats some nice take-down + photos.
Now i think i want a wood stock.
Also i ran across this... fellow claims in there he was taking starlings with his p-17 at 15yards... :O them some steady hands. Maybe if i jury-rigged some kind of shoulder stock and scoped one of mine i could get that kinda accuracy.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,921.msg37169.html#msg37169 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,921.msg37169.html#msg37169)
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Finally this guy put out a video on his P17.. FINALLY...
Have watched a few of his other videos (S&W R8 revolver, Airmaster77) fairly decent reviewer w/ a plinking bias. Its longer than it needs to be... but indicates what shooting one is like, load, close (pump), aim, shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUIF8Z4m2-4#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUIF8Z4m2-4#ws)
This is what he is shootin:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/skenco-poly-match-177-cal-4-0-grains-pointed-lead-free-150ct?p=797 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/skenco-poly-match-177-cal-4-0-grains-pointed-lead-free-150ct?p=797)
wadcutter version :
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/skenco-green-poly-match-177-cal-4-20-grains-wadcutter-lead-free-150ct?p=924 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/skenco-green-poly-match-177-cal-4-20-grains-wadcutter-lead-free-150ct?p=924)
"pew" matic review
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3q-70928qU&feature=related#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3q-70928qU&feature=related#ws)
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Did i post this already or not?
This a fairly well organized look at some diy mods for a daisy SSP (850/853/753/953)
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1203365739/Daisy+Powerline+953+problem-+Need+help (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1203365739/Daisy+Powerline+953+problem-+Need+help)
someone else posted this a year ago, as well as this:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,2176.msg38894.html#msg38894 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,2176.msg38894.html#msg38894)
new link for the daisy 853 repair powerpoint mentioned can be found here:
http://www.odcmp.com/Training/CoachingResources.htm (http://www.odcmp.com/Training/CoachingResources.htm)
http://www.odcmp.com/Training/CR/853Repair.ppt (http://www.odcmp.com/Training/CR/853Repair.ppt) - 36.2 mb power point file
Just watched the power point... wow... thats some nice take-down + photos.
Now i think i want a wood stock.
Also i ran across this... fellow claims in there he was taking starlings with his p-17 at 15yards... :O them some steady hands. Maybe if i jury-rigged some kind of shoulder stock and scoped one of mine i could get that kinda accuracy.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,921.msg37169.html#msg37169 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,921.msg37169.html#msg37169)
Good info on Daisy reseal, and very nice powerpoint presentation! So are you going to modify to wood stock? ;)
I was wondering if I should get different pellet, I see that many like JSP Exact Diablo... Mine are just basic Crosman .177 that I got at Gander Mountain.
So this morning I decided to test the peep site on my Crossman 1377 and I love it, I was able to consistantly hit the bulls eye area on my sticker targets :)... whoohoo... yay!!! :D I had great time shooting before, but it is way more fun when I was able to hit the target every time. I also no longer focused with one eye and used both, and I think on pistol it worked real well. Plus I also think using both eyes while shooting will be beneficial for me later when I actually start targeting the birds, just incase the bird that I'm focused on would decide to fly off before I shot at it I would have better view of my next target. This is just for 1377, I'm not sure how it would feel shooting different air rifle though. :)
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Finally this guy put out a video on his P17.. FINALLY...
Have watched a few of his other videos (S&W R8 revolver, Airmaster77) fairly decent reviewer w/ a plinking bias. Its longer than it needs to be... but indicates what shooting one is like, load, close (pump), aim, shoot.
....
"pew" matic review
....
Not bad for the price... no recoil and very accurate, nearly impossible to miss, would've been perfect for me few days ago... lol
I like those self-made target drawings he has and I'll be drawing mine too, right after I use up my stickers! ;D
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Yeah P17's aren't bad for the price.
I'm starting to like the scope + Daisy 850. Very accurate at 10m. Even with the mediocre scope.
Tried out my 850 & older crosman 2100 (at 3x pumps). Definitely liking the Daisy more, its liking the cheap cros. premier h-points! almost penny sized shots at 20x shots, where as the crosman is a lil larger spread (especially with the odd flyer). Which just means I probably need to find better pellets for it.
my 'new' C02 MK II works... sure was loud, even at the lowest setting. Reminded my why I didn't like C02.
Its just such a nice looking piece of metal, despite the paint loss. I'll probably shoot my p17s more than this though, similiar performance, w/o C02 to worry about w/ the p17s.