GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: subscriber on November 18, 2020, 03:17:39 AM
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The latest Leshiy has a lot to like.
But, is it "trying too hard", compared to the single-shot version?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRiFAqvSGA4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRiFAqvSGA4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m46SReVW_dA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m46SReVW_dA)
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Are those good groups ? ???
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Different guns. Not understanding the trying too hard comment... PCP airguns aren't cool kids buying clothes at the trendy Mall rock-n-roll store...
I've seen plenty of videos on YouTube the last 6 months of just how good the Leshiy 2 can shoot. I own the Leshiy and know how well it shoots. I blame the shooter first and foremost if the Leshiy 2 isn't grouping well.
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Are those good groups ? ???
Not understanding the trying too hard comment... I blame the shooter first and foremost if the Leshiy 2 isn't grouping well.
Gents,
The Leshiy is "trying too hard" to be what it has not yet pulled off: an accurate semi-auto. Groups fired off the mag are unimpressive. You can use the word disappointing, for such an expensive airgun; but we can all see the groups are bad.
Note how small the single shot groups are compared to those fired from the magazine? If Gregor was a poor shot, how does one explain the small groups fired single shot?. This is evidence that there is a problem with Gregor's L2 mag alignment (or something).
The odd thing is that Gregor starts the video stating that the production L2 is much better than the preproduction one he had; because that had been inaccurate. So, the better airgun shoots like carp?
Perhaps the L2 will do better with slugs, just like the Huben. They both shoot from the mag; except that the Leshiy 2 takes replaceable mags. The L2 is also not guaranteed to be good semi-auto, just because the L1 is a great piece of kit as a single shot.
I really want to like the Leshiy 2. It is a brilliant system design. But based on these videos, I would not buy one.
Gregor went to great pains to get his early Huben to shoot right, by adjusting the mag indexing and general aligned with the barrel. When he was done, he was shooting sub 25 mm groups at 75 meters with slugs. So, while Gregor is critical of his ability, mag VS single load groups with the Leshiy 2 suggest that his contribution to the scatter seen in the videos above is not significant.
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Question :
is removing the magnet a necessity ?.....can't the pellets just be loaded backwards from the front of the mag ?
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Don't know if the mag loading question is answered here:
https://www.edgunleshiy.shop/pages/leshiy-2-faq (https://www.edgunleshiy.shop/pages/leshiy-2-faq)
Perhaps such detail questions might be answered by asking the source: INFO@EDGUN.SHOP
I will speculate that if you tried to front load the mag, the pellet skirt would catch on the narrow outlet from the mag. I believe the "chambers" in the mag look like the chambers in a centerfire revolver cylinder - smaller at the front. My though process is that if the mag "chambers" had one diameter all the way through, then two cover plates would be required to prevent pellets falling out, and there is only one plate:
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0121/8193/0043/products/edgun_magazine_4.5mm_001_x1_1.01_2048x.jpg?v=1605717548)
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Are those good groups ? ???
Not understanding the trying too hard comment... I blame the shooter first and foremost if the Leshiy 2 isn't grouping well.
Gents,
The Leshiy is "trying too hard" to be what it has not yet pulled off: an accurate semi-auto. Groups fired off the mag are unimpressive. You can use the word disappointing, for such an expensive airgun; but we can all see the groups are bad.
Note how small the single shot groups are compared to those fired from the magazine? If Gregor was a poor shot, how does one explain the small groups fired single shot?. This is evidence that there is a problem with Gregor's L2 mag alignment (or something).
The odd thing is that Gregor starts the video stating that the production L2 is much better than the preproduction one he had; because that had been inaccurate. So, the better airgun shoots like carp?
Perhaps the L2 will do better with slugs, just like the Huben. They both shoot from the mag; except that the Leshiy 2 takes replaceable mags. The L2 is also not guaranteed to be good semi-auto, just because the L1 is a great piece of kit as a single shot.
I really want to like the Leshiy 2. It is a brilliant system design. But based on these videos, I would not buy one.
Gregor went to great pains to get his early Huben to shoot right, by adjusting the mag indexing and general aligned with the barrel. When he was done, he was shooting sub 25 mm groups at 75 meters with slugs. So, while Gregor is critical of his ability, mag VS single load groups with the Leshiy 2 suggest that his contribution to the scatter seen in the videos above is not significant.
All the stuff I watch, the semi-auto action works peachy and groups are tiny. And a similar sour-grapes thread on AGN even had Ed himself chime in :P Regardless, the videos I've seen of the Leshiy 2 display excellent accuracy.
I'm an EdGun fan (own 2 and will own more) and will be buying the Leshiy 2 at some point. Do you actually intend to purchase a Leshiy 2? If so, don't limit yourself you 1 video. Go watch Ed's videos chronicling this platform. IIRC, Brian at EdGunWest has some groups shooting semi- out past 200 yards.
A final note: we're talking a semi-automatic that is hammerless and uses a magazine. Ed ended up choosing different barrel manufacturers for different calibers because no one manufacturer could supply all the offered calibers up to his own specs. And in his own words: he isn't making anybody buy his guns. We're all big boys and girls, so if you don't want to spend the money, don't be an armchair QB.
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Don't know if the mag loading question is answered here:
https://www.edgunleshiy.shop/pages/leshiy-2-faq (https://www.edgunleshiy.shop/pages/leshiy-2-faq)
Perhaps such detail questions might be answered by asking the source: INFO@EDGUN.SHOP
I will speculate that if you tried to front load the mag, the pellet skirt would catch on the narrow outlet from the mag. I believe the "chambers" in the mag look like the chambers in a centerfire revolver cylinder - smaller at the front. My though process is that if the mag "chambers" had one diameter all the way through, then two cover plates would be required to prevent pellets falling out, and there is only one plate:
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0121/8193/0043/products/edgun_magazine_4.5mm_001_x1_1.01_2048x.jpg?v=1605717548)
Well, that wouldn't make sense to me,..that way the pellet is seized as it's shot and would prevent the skirt expansion right ?
Other magazines of that type are loaded backwards from the front, pellets don't fall out because they have the action walls in front so the can't go anywhere.
he's showing the slugs falling out, so looks like you can load from the front.
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Manny,
Slugs don't have skirts, so the front of the mag only has to be slightly larger than the slug diameter to load from the front.
Depending on caliber and pellet used, skirt diameter can be over 0.004" larger than head diameter. So, I hate to argue for the sake of it; because that is not my intent. I want clarity, even if I use speculation as a vehicle.
I don't know for a fact that the mags "chambers" are stepped or taper down to the front. They must allow pellet skirts to enter, so they must have at least a flare at the rear (like a breakbarrel springer chamber at a minimum). If pellet skirts could enter from the front, that means the heads can cant over before reaching the barrel, on being shot. Starting the pellet at an angle to the bore is not good. So, I suspect that the mag chambers are a little larger than groove diameter, but smaller than unfired pellet skirt diameters.
Again, this is speculation.
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Peter,
I take your word that Gregor's experience with the L2 is not typical. I would absolutely gather more info before deciding to buy one of these. The risk of that is low, because my income is sporadic.
Truth be told, I started this thread before I had finished watching the videos. Then, I was a little disappointed and figured I need to "warn" readers. Else, it may seem like I am unconditionally promoting this very cleaver, extremely appealing new carbine.
To me it sounds like some people are getting good groups and others not. So, neither is predictive of your experience. It just serves as an indicator that Edgun may have debugging left to do.
I will search for happy customer videos and post them to this thread.
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Yeah, I'm hoping someone that actually got one will chime in,.... I'm very curious, and it's just plain curiosity since I will never get one :) :)
....even if I like the gun and manufacturer a lot.
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I too would like to see and unbiased review from a member here with real world data.
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Rather than seem to select videos of customers that are only happy or unhappy with their Leshiy 2, here is the full list of videos offered by youtube: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=edgun+leshiy+2.0 (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=edgun+leshiy+2.0)
The reason why I posted Gregor's videos is because I subscribe to his channel; and got a notification for them today. Not because I think Gregor is the best reviewer. My impression of him is that he is reasoning and honest; if long winded. He is willing to tear into new airguns to see what is going on. So, usually a good source for very specific info.
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So, this EdgunWest video provides some hints about the magazine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW3sOszwRZM&feature=youtu.be&t=273 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW3sOszwRZM&feature=youtu.be&t=273)
If I am seeing clearly, the chamber is parallel, with a small cone at the chamber mouth, like an (unrifled) breakbarrel springer chamber.
Further on in the video when the barrel is reinstalled, you can see a very shallow angle "forcing cone" at the barrel breech. This suggests that pellets are realigned with the bore axis by that cone, as they accelerate out of the mag under pressure, should smaller heads allow them to cant over in the mag's chambers.
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Are those good groups ? ???
Not understanding the trying too hard comment... I blame the shooter first and foremost if the Leshiy 2 isn't grouping well.
Gents,
The Leshiy is "trying too hard" to be what it has not yet pulled off: an accurate semi-auto. Groups fired off the mag are unimpressive. You can use the word disappointing, for such an expensive airgun; but we can all see the groups are bad.
Note how small the single shot groups are compared to those fired from the magazine? If Gregor was a poor shot, how does one explain the small groups fired single shot?. This is evidence that there is a problem with Gregor's L2 mag alignment (or something).
The odd thing is that Gregor starts the video stating that the production L2 is much better than the preproduction one he had; because that had been inaccurate. So, the better airgun shoots like carp?
Perhaps the L2 will do better with slugs, just like the Huben. They both shoot from the mag; except that the Leshiy 2 takes replaceable mags. The L2 is also not guaranteed to be good semi-auto, just because the L1 is a great piece of kit as a single shot.
I really want to like the Leshiy 2. It is a brilliant system design. But based on these videos, I would not buy one.
Gregor went to great pains to get his early Huben to shoot right, by adjusting the mag indexing and general aligned with the barrel. When he was done, he was shooting sub 25 mm groups at 75 meters with slugs. So, while Gregor is critical of his ability, mag VS single load groups with the Leshiy 2 suggest that his contribution to the scatter seen in the videos above is not significant.
Yea I would never own one. I opted for the LCS SK-19 for the money they is alot better PCP. I don't care for edgun at all.
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I waiting to hear back if the L2 will be offered in Canada. If they pass the RCMP inspection , I will get one in .25 cal. It won’t be a bench gun but used to hunt game within 50 yards. Just like all air rifles , they perform better one the barrels are seasoned for a specific projectile, and speed is adjusted to maximize accuracy with that same projectile. Shooting 3/4” groups at 50m with the same basic settings with more than one type pellet at what I would call way too fast a velocity is acceptable to me. I’m absolutely certain this can be improved with some basic tuning and testing. 40 FPE from a 350mm barrel is a lot to ask. I’d like to see the barrel specs , that usually dictates the speed.
Either way , good groups or bad , I’m still drooling .
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Yea I would never own one. I opted for the LCS SK-19 for the money they is alot better PCP. I don't care for edgun at all.
Everyone can and should make up their own minds.
That said, I am unfamiliar with the LCS SK-19. I see it looks the result of a Huben K1 and an FX Impact spending a weekend together in the safe :)
https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/precharged-pcp/lcs-air-arms-sk-19-automatic-air-rifle/ (https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/precharged-pcp/lcs-air-arms-sk-19-automatic-air-rifle/)
Full auto my be fun for a week, but how accurate is this beast?
https://youtu.be/NGirAlHLvzw (https://youtu.be/NGirAlHLvzw)
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hmmmmm... :D
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I’ve got a 30cal from the first one hundred in country. Took it with me this week down to where I go deer hunting. Here’s some pictures of my fifty yards groups. I have not adjusted anything on this rifle yet. It came to me shooting 800 FPS. I have ordered the nozzles for adjustment of power, but will not be adjusting until Ed makes the video on this topic. The paper at top was first group shot in semi-auto, not really single shots. The trigger doesn’t work like that, can’t really explain why but you don’t get accurate shots! Maybe what is going on in the video as I didn’t watch? Oh ya, I have a three power Steiner on mine because like I said it shoots semi-auto, not single shot.
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Thanks Luke
At what range were the paper targets?
If you did not adjusts the scope, I wonder if the scope has a zero parallax distance of 100 yards, and you were shooting at 25 or 50? Or perhaps you held off for wind that had died down during the second group.
Coolhand Luke is a classics movie. Have seen it more than half a dozen times.
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Fifty one yards. The scope is a Steiner M332 battle sight, straight 3 power. Could be better with scope but not how I use this rifle in my hunting woods. Was a windy day when I shot, no excuse though. I think I have hung 5 squirrels since getting this gun. Head shots are not an option or you go hungry.....lol. I have shot it at longer ranges, not paper, and have got good results. Seems to shoot in a straight line just need to learn my hold overs. I know that my accuracy can get better with my home pours. When I insert them in magazine some are perfect others are tight, same as Gregor in video, with same results.
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Fifty one yards. The scope is a Steiner M332 battle sight, straight 3 power. Could be better with scope but not how I use this rifle in my hunting woods. Was a windy day when I shot, no excuse though. I think I have hung 5 squirrels since getting this gun. Head shots are not an option or you go hungry.....lol. I have shot it at longer ranges, not paper, and have got good results. Seems to shoot in a straight line just need to learn my hold overs. I know that my accuracy can get better with my home pours. When I insert them in magazine some are perfect others are tight, same as Gregor in video, with same results.
So I have a question, I'm curious ;
Can you load the magazine from the front ( pellets/bullets backwards ) without taking off the magnetic back part ?
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Nope, appears to be cone shaped? They only load from transfer port side, that is why you need the extra magnet to pull off the black plate that holds the pellets in magazines. I attached some pictures of the magazine and pellets going into it, the center pin goes towards the target when shooting.
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Thanks, I was curious about that,
....so the magazine seizes your pellets as you shoot them.
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....so the magazine seizes your pellets as you shoot them.
This makes sense only if the barrel groove diameter is smaller than the mag chamber mouth (as the pellet skirt is sized down too). Else, the skirt diameter would enters the barrel a lot smaller than groove diameter.
The above makes me wonder what fired pellet bearing surfaces look like, if they can be recovered gently...
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....so the magazine seizes your pellets as you shoot them.
This makes sense only if the barrel groove diameter is smaller than the mag chamber mouth (as the pellet skirt is sized down too). Else, the skirt diameter would enters the barrel a lot smaller than groove diameter.
The above makes me wonder what fired pellet bearing surfaces look like, if they can be recovered gently...
That is exactly why I though it would be like Sumatra and AR6 magazines where the end part is flared open so the pellet skirt can expend,....I think that would be a better design
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I wonder if the sporadic reports of "inaccuracy" with these airguns might be due to people removing the barrels, and on replacing them, really cranking down on the generous number of retention screws. The result being springing the bore oval, and then causing the pellets to be swaged down as they pass that section of bore, never to be completely stable in the bore again.
The force on the barrel driving it forwards is equal to the projectile friction trying to drag the barrel forward (on loading and shooting, whichever is highest). If there is a breech O-ring at a diameter larger than the bore, then that annular ring of barrel area will also generate some forward thrust on firing.
My point is that the force trying to "shoot out" the barrel is actually rather low, and that resisting the cantilever drooping moment in a free floating barrel is actually more challenging. In the case of the V2 Leshiy, the barrel support and centering appear excellent, even with the screws completely loose - see video from this time stamp: https://youtu.be/eW3sOszwRZM?t=472 (https://youtu.be/eW3sOszwRZM?t=472)
So, generating a barrel clamping force of 500 lb per screw might be "manly", but it is completely unnecessary. Some might even call it stupid...
"How tight do you do it? Tight": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW3sOszwRZM&feature=youtu.be&t=600 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW3sOszwRZM&feature=youtu.be&t=600)
Yes, the above is speculative, but I am looking for an explanation why some of these airguns shoot great out of the box. Perhaps the clue is that happy owners tested them extensively before taking them apart. Any that are then less happy after disassembly and reassembly may blame themselves, rather than what appears to be a precisely crafted machine.
Confucius might have said; first establish a baseline, before "improving" your new airgun...
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I haven't removed barrel on this gun, but had both my gen-1 Leshiy apart many times. The original is in long 22, the second is in 30. Both are great shooting guns, the thirty is hold sensitive. Ed said that is the choke on the V1, and stated that the new barrels were unchoked, so could be as you stated. Really fun gun like it is, can't wait for next fall when the chestnuts fall as it is a shooting gallery.
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I spent several hours today shooting my Leshiy2, 30cal 450mm barrel today. I had trouble getting anything to group at 50 yards. I have many different slugs and pellets that I tried. I started to notice that changing between different slugs and pellets seemed to affect the group size. I found one Griffin slug (39grn SLDC) that shot well and the 47.2 grn NSA slug. I would notice a weird flyer from time to time and I wonder if it is some inconsistency in the velocity (I did not crony any shots) like Gregor had in his updated testing video. It seemed the more I shot one thing the better and more consistent it was. I think I attached two of my targets below. All groups were with the 47.2 NSA except I did stick one mag of the 39grn Griffins in and for some reason the first round flew high and right then the rest were close. Wondering what you guys think?
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Sorry I attached the same target twice. Here is the other one.
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I guess this thread is to old for anyone to see. It gave a warning when I posted, but I thought writing in it would bring it back to the top. Guess it doesn’t do that anymore.
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Bill,
I wonder if this video about accuracy improvement will help you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX7sM1ZjE7k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX7sM1ZjE7k)
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Bill,
I wonder if this video about accuracy improvement will help you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX7sM1ZjE7k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX7sM1ZjE7k)
I watched his up date and wonder if some of my odd flyers are due to what he said was happening to him while using 30 cal. He said every now and then a shot would have a 30 fps deviation shot. I may need to put the crony in front of it at some point just to see. But I was happy with most of those groups I got above at the end of the day. I should be able to hit some ground hogs in the head out 50 yards anyway. Was hoping some other Leshiy 2 guys would tell us how theirs are doing.
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I don't know if this is pertinent, but I do recall seeing a post by Mr. "Edgun" himself stating that he AP barrels do require a bit of leading in to get their full accuracy. I have found that to be true with the AP barrels I have too.
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I don't know if this is pertinent, but I do recall seeing a post by Mr. "Edgun" himself stating that he AP barrels do require a bit of leading in to get their full accuracy. I have found that to be true with the AP barrels I have too.
That probably is very true. I shot a good amount through my 350 mm before it started tightening up, and then switched to the 450mm and by the end of the day it started to get better.