GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: chemclay on November 02, 2020, 09:09:06 PM
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Eventually, my HW 50 and 97 will need seals, gaskets, springs and whatever; how can I best learn about this?
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Eventually, my HW 50 and 97 will need seals, gaskets, springs and whatever; how can I best learn about this?
You can learn a GREAT deal here, both on the general forums and in the library. I also (being somewhat of a visual learner) suggest watching youtube videos on tuning. And of course....always feel free to ask questions or post your experiences at any time.
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Eventually, my HW 50 and 97 will need seals, gaskets, springs and whatever; how can I best learn about this?
In my experience and having gone through the various styles of HW's, I learned best by just going through the Internet and finding out all I can about how they are assembled. Be it schematics or videos, whatever, it's best to see how they are put together and view what someone else has done, then filter out the bad info and follow on with the good.
Bottom line is there is no real "best" way of learning until you do it yourself.
There is a lot of good info regarding the HW50 and 97 out there, and I'm sure that many of the GTA members will give you some very good advice.
One thing however, is that the main spring is under a LOT of compression. Some people are able to separate the rear block and release the mainspring, and also re-assemble it without a clamp, but I would not advise doing it that way. You will need some sort of bar clamp (with the appropriate amount of "throw", or "travel" on the clamp screw) in order to keep things under control. Even doing it with a proper spring compressor (https://www.opticsplanet.com/sun-optics-spring-compressor.html) or bar clamp involves a bit of trickery and fiddling.
When you get closer to actually doing a spring change or reseal yourself, post again and everyone here at GTA will help you through it. In the meantime, do all the research you can on how the gun is assembled.
You didn't state the age of your HW50 as that model changed somewhere in the mid to late '80's I think.
Here's a link showing a schematic of the newer style HW50. https://www.gunspares.co.uk/products/24565/HW50/ (https://www.gunspares.co.uk/products/24565/HW50/)
And here is a link showing the same for the HW97. https://www.gunspares.co.uk/products/24576/HW97/ (https://www.gunspares.co.uk/products/24576/HW97/)
They are each totally different animals in the way that they are built regarding the rear block.
Hope this helps.
:D
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My 50 I acquired in April and my 97 in July. I am a long time powder shooter, but have always taken my guns to well qualified gunsmith's for internal work. I've never met John in PA, but live in the same state; am I better off going this route when needed?
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In your situation, I would say yes, but with caveat.
That being - are you close enough to John to deliver in person (rather than the expense of post)?
I do not know John in PA personally but have read very good things about him.
For an overall rebuild and improvement, and lessening of investment of the required tools and such, that may be your best choice.
Give him a call, and also ask about his thoughts on Vortek HO spring kits. I've been putting them in all my new HW's and the transformation is indescribable.
:D
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I guess the first question to ask yourself is whether you're mechanically inclined at all. Airguns are pretty simple machines with few moving parts. If you have or build a spring compressor you've gone a long way toward doing your own minor maintenance. Only you can decide whether you WANT to or can financially afford to pay someone else to do it. As far as John in PA goes, he's a fine gentleman and tends to be very helpful. He's also in far eastern PA, Thomasville, I believe. Good luck either way.
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One big caveat of the YouTube learning route is that the disassembly / assembly videos there can and do have critical information edited out. When I was learning the ropes of dealing with my springers, I would search YT for disassembly videos for my particular airgun models. Many of them edit out the critical spring pre-compression part. This resulted in potentially disastrous accidents early on, as the mainspring and rear guide would shoot violently out of the receiver end, after I'd done everything exactly as shown in the videos.
By far the most useful & reliable resource was asking specific questions here.
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If you are mechanicaly inclined at all you can take these guns apart no problem. No teacher like first hand experience.
When you do take them apart, especially if its thier first time, deburring the whole reciever inside and out is very much reccomended. Small files and fine grit sand paper with acetone and a rag for cleanup.
I enjoy knowing how to work on all my guns, when I first started I picked up lots of info from the awesome folks here as well as YT. If you run into problems, especially with HWs and Diana's, run back over here and ask away.
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Some have posted in the past, get a real cheap springer and take it apart, then see if you can get it back together, we will do our best to help.
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I enjoy working on my spring guns and could not imagine sending them out to a gunsmith every time I was to change/adjust something. They would be gone a lot because I often adjust the springs or seals to change the shooting characteristics. That is part of the fun of shooting springers IMHO.
I’m not mechanically inclined and found the learning curve to be relatively easy. Just read up here and ask questions, and study the various YT videos that explain how to strip down HW spring guns. Even if the video focuses on a model you don’t own, the concepts are very similar.
Spring tension is something to handle with care, but it can be managed easily by using the proper tools and technique. Wear safety glasses and use a quality bar clamp or build your own spring compressor.
Good luck
R
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I can only speak to PCPs, but it is a LOT easier if you have some mechanical and gunsmithing background before you jump in. Just to know the vernacular if nothing else. Also to sort the ??? from the help on the forums, YouTube, etc. Having the tools for doing pneumatic/hydraulic work and gunsmithing helped me. It appears now having the tools to do some light machining is going to be necessary as well. Also, these little beasts are completely different from PBs. They're not magic. I think anyone with some skills and desire could and should be able to maintain their own. Not that you have to, you should just be able to know when something isn't right, whether it's you, or the tool. It's like talking to your mechanic about your car, if you don't know how it works, your mechanic can tell you anything.
With all that said, this forum seems to be the best place to start. Ask questions, if you don't understand the questions, ask what you don't understand, if you don't know how the forum works, there is a section for that. There seems to be people who have done this before, so there is no need to re-invent.
The manufacturers and vendors (at least in my experience) have been a lot of help 50% of the time with their emphasis keeping you from breaking your purchase and hurting yourself or someone else. These aren't toys, especially when you get into the guts of a PCP or the business end of a airgun. It's just my humble opinion, but when someone brags about having shot themselves maintaining their airgun, it's time to find someone else for advice. Accidents happen, but when they do, it's time to figure out what went wrong, not continue to do the same thing and brag about how you did it.
Boy, I gotta leave the soapbox put away in the morning and stay on the Darkside ;).
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Eventually, my HW 50 and 97 will need seals, gaskets, springs and whatever; how can I best learn about this?
HW50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rCKzgY_-x4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rCKzgY_-x4)
HW97
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoSNSn4fP0Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoSNSn4fP0Q)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU7Bq7FVqkI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU7Bq7FVqkI)
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I didn't notice any mention of it but if you knew of someone near you who works on airguns and is willing to let you watch or advise in person while you do the work that would be a good option. Up close and personal has always seemed like the best way to learn these things.
I have watched a lot of YouTube videos to learn how to do some things. They can be very helpful. But as someone said above a lot of times critical information is missing or the video is not well done and you don't get a clear understanding of what is happening.
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When I started with ‘adult’ airguns I was so excited and an intensive shooter, testing different pellets, and so on. No experience, no forums, I didn’t have a clue about the usual maintenance needed for airguns. The first broken spring was a HUGE surprise.
An obligatory part of the learning curve is to know your airgun. For instance, and for a certain pellet, what is the normal “muzzle speed”? Then, a basic info of your gun’s health comes from a chrony .. abnormal speed variations? If you don’t have access to one, you should buy.
(by the way, for springers, another obligatory part will be to know your scopes..; a long chapter)
Not mechanically inclined and no tools, I’ve started with two air gunsmiths, told me at the shooting club. In short, both didn’t work as expected (at least, to me).
Then, already a member of GTA, I decided to risk in the disassembling adventure to see the internals. The schematics (exploded view) is a must. The spring compressor is a nced (GTA member, see above) style. I bought some wood pieces and paid a mechanic to build it.
If you go this way, the VERY FIRST basic thing is to be sure you have the PROPER screwdriver to the stock screws, in order you don’t damage the screws slots. To avoid my trials and errors.., I would ask here what size the screwdriver(s) to your HW.
Regarding spare parts (OEM or aftermarket) and suppliers, also ask here.
Any problem, at any step of the way, ask here.
My bottom line to you is .. when just replacing parts for the basic maintenance, breathe deeply and do it yourself. I don’t enjoy the work, but the full part of the bottle is the extra dose of freedom you get.. always very good.
It ends like replacing a damaged tire of your car. The same deep breath.., a spare tire, a jack and the proper tire iron.
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My 50 I acquired in April and my 97 in July. I am a long time powder shooter, but have always taken my guns to well qualified gunsmith's for internal work. I've never met John in PA, but live in the same state; am I better off going this route when needed?
John in Pa is a good 150 miles from you. If you are mechanically inclined, start the teardown yourself. Get a spring compressor. Watch the U-tube videos. Get a properly small torque wrench, get some proper gunsmith tools(regular screw drivers will screw up your screws), buy an extra set of stock screws and seals.
Then if you get stuck, come back for advise or take all your parts to John...
-Y
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Get a spring compressor
Where is the best place to find the right one?
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if you knew of someone near you who works on airguns
Within 100 mi radius of my home, there is an exceptionally high density of shooting clubs with many shotgun, pistol, and rifle facilities and events; this area is a long time powder burning community. I have yet to find one with air gun support; wish I could.
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Get a spring compressor
Where is the best place to find the right one?
I made a link to one in my first post. Read above and click on the blue words "spring compressor".
:D
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PA sells a compressor that clamps to the scope rail. It's about $100 and doesn't take up much space when stored. I built my own but now it takes up a lot of room in my shed but didn't cost me anything but my time. Now, anytime I want to tare into my Diana 48 I just remove the action from the stock, set it in the compressor and compress the spring. I use dummy pins to replace the pins that hold the trigger assy in and just back the C-clamp screw off until there's not more pressure that it's holding. I have never worked on a HW so I'm pretty sure what I did would be different to what you would do but it really isn't rocket science. Roadworthy talked me thru the first time of disassembly which really helped. There are a lot of good people here who can step you thru the process.
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Eventually, my HW 50 and 97 will need seals, gaskets, springs and whatever; how can I best learn about this?
Hey Chemclay,
I'm sure you don't need another opinion ... but here goes ::).
Weihrauch springers are made to very exact specifications, hence they come apart and go back together like a tight fitting puzzle. Take pics with your phone the first time through a gun. If a part doesn't seem to want to fit easily, it's not in right - don't force anything.
Buy or make a spring compressor - I made mine from pine from the Charlie Da Tuna website back in 2013 for $20. I had scrap wood laying around which wasn't counted.
Watch video's on tuning your gun - Ed has posted some good ones. Buy some lubricants from ARH or use Krytox as many here do.
Remember, if taking the gun apart and reassembling doesn't seem fun to you - send it out to a Tuner.
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Remember, if taking the gun apart and reassembling doesn't seem fun to you - send it out to a Tuner.
Thank you. This is great advice for me. I enjoy trouble shooting my computers to a certain point, after which, I call the Geek Squad. Though I understand alot about the workings of my guns, the meticulous work, to me, goes to a 'smith. I quit reloading years ago--no fun--so I shoot what's on sale. My shooting buddies and I like to shoot. When a gun problem overwhelms us, it goes to a 'smith. All the info above is great, I really appreciate it and I'll archive it; and hope to be back with more questions--like, which magnum .22 springer should I get next?
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Whatever gun you get, learn how to clean the barrel and check that stock screws are tight.
-Y
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Remember, if taking the gun apart and reassembling doesn't seem fun to you - send it out to a Tuner.
Thank you. This is great advice for me. I enjoy trouble shooting my computers to a certain point, after which, I call the Geek Squad. Though I understand alot about the workings of my guns, the meticulous work, to me, goes to a 'smith. I quit reloading years ago--no fun--so I shoot what's on sale. My shooting buddies and I like to shoot. When a gun problem overwhelms us, it goes to a 'smith. All the info above is great, I really appreciate it and I'll archive it; and hope to be back with more questions--like, which magnum .22 springer should I get next?
Well there's the .22 Long Range Hunter HW80K and the .22 HW95 or HW95L that shoot the .22 quite well and very accurately. I like the HW95L .22 out of the pick the most and it has plenty of power. 8)
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Whatever gun you get, learn how to clean the barrel and check that stock screws are tight.
-Y
Yes. I do that each time I shoot.
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Well there's the .22 Long Range Hunter HW80K and the .22 HW95 or HW95L that shoot the .22 quite well and very accurately. I like the HW95L .22 out of the pick the most and it has plenty of power. 8)
Since I have a 97k, I'm thinking about 20 fpe in .22; I've been researching and discussing this, but still unsure. Would the HW 80 be better than a N-tec , a RWS 48, or an ASP20?
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Whatever gun you get, learn how to clean the barrel and check that stock screws are tight.
-Y
Yes. I do that each time I shoot.
The only time I clean my barrels is upon initial delivery to get rid of whatever manufacturing or shipping (especially Russian gun) gunk might be inside.
I believe it's most commonly known that once thoroughly cleaned, the only other barrel cleaning required is an occasional (and I mean about maybe each 500 or so rounds) of a bit of light swabbing.
Airguns do not suffer the build-up that powder burners accumulate. In fact, there is a sort of VooDoo thought that airgun rifles need to be "seasoned" to a particular pellet, and that less cleaning will keep them accurate for that particular pellet.
As I said, it's all VooDoo, at least to me.
After an initial cleaning, I only clean my barrels if I start to discern some inaccuracy, and even then only after sighting through the bore to see if there are any obvious visual issues.
Other than that, you should be able to shoot thousands of rounds through it, however that is considering that it's in regular use.
If I know that I am going to store a rifle away for a time I will do a final barrel wipe with a protective oil.
On the other hand, I could be doing things completely wrong.
:D
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Well I am going to start in the next few days by building a spring compressor.
I went to the hardware store today for materials and I have tune parts inbound.
In the end I hope to have a buzz free HW95.
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Well I am going to start in the next few days by building a spring compressor.
I went to the hardware store today for materials and I have tune parts inbound.
In the end I hope to have a buzz free HW95.
I meant to mention this before, but hopefully you bought the correct items for making you own spring compressor.
The very main thin to consider is that the clamp has enough screw travel or "throw" to fully allow the spring to decompress. You will need one with at least about 6 inches of screw travel for this. More would be better.
Here is one example.
https://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-10-Inch-Malleable-C-Clamp-4035/dp/B000NY4TAU (https://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-10-Inch-Malleable-C-Clamp-4035/dp/B000NY4TAU)
If you do not have enough travel on the screw of the clamp, the spring will still be under compression and "pop out" uncontrollably.
HTH
:D
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Well I am going to start in the next few days by building a spring compressor.
I went to the hardware store today for materials and I have tune parts inbound.
In the end I hope to have a buzz free HW95.
I've used a "store boughten" padded Groz sash clamp for a few years now. Heavy duty, long ram screw< can bolt to a bench, so on and so forth..........
https://www.amazon.com/Groz-39102-bar-Clamp-Length/dp/B01DAPPY20/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=Sash+Clamps&qid=1604446208&sr=8-4 (https://www.amazon.com/Groz-39102-bar-Clamp-Length/dp/B01DAPPY20/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=Sash+Clamps&qid=1604446208&sr=8-4)
(https://i.imgur.com/xWypFzNl.png)(https://i.imgur.com/0lCRsSfl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/oXjhY2Kl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/h8XXEK5l.jpg)
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I’ll use the bolt out of my flywheel puller threaded into a two jaw puller yoke bolted to a board. With wood blocks bolted strategically I will be set. I’ve read most of your threads Ed. Thank you for all of your input and sharing your experience. I am starting 30 years late, but I will have a nice shooting 95 when I am done.
I tried to scrounge, but I had to go buy fasteners. That big clamp is nice.
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Well there's the .22 Long Range Hunter HW80K and the .22 HW95 or HW95L that shoot the .22 quite well and very accurately. I like the HW95L .22 out of the pick the most and it has plenty of power. 8)
Since I have a 97k, I'm thinking about 20 fpe in .22; I've been researching and discussing this, but still unsure. Would the HW 80 be better than a N-tec , a RWS 48, or an ASP20?
If interested at all , I have d460 in 22 ill be selling soon. It smokes the jsb hades out there over 800 fps and laser accurate
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I'd get a wheeler FAT wrench so you can torque the stock screws to the proper tightness. The bits that come with it work, but if you look up Chapman, they give you exact dimensions of the blade of the screwdriver and can find one that's a better fit (extra insurance to not mess up the screws). I've never used a compressor, but I'd recommend it, if you lose your grip with the spring compressed, you'll probably lose a few teeth. I'm looking into building one, when I put in a PG3 last winter my wife had to lean on the rifle while I turned the breech plug back into position. She was not thrilled when she found out how hard it is to get moly grease off her hands. John in PA does good work, and I'd definitely talk to him if you wanted to tune, but replacing a seal or spring you should be able to do yourself.
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Best way to learn is take in as much info as possible and dive in.
My spring compressor and barrel bending jig adventure went pretty well as outlined in my recent thread “Mr. Home.”
I am very glad I did it myself, though I am sure a real tuner does much better work. This will not be the last time I go inside an air rifle.
I have about 400 shots on my HW95 with PG3 kit. So far I feel it was worth the time and money.