GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: mrbulk on October 09, 2020, 12:03:44 AM
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By now I managed to accumulate ten different airgun moderators from several makers, so today I compared their loudness with a basic (cheap) sound meter. All of them were fired with the same gun, in this case an Avenger .22 w/reg set at 1800psi and hammer spring turned inward 2.75 rotations.
At these settings the Avenger with JSB 18.13 diabolos was averaging mid-800 fps and you get over 90 useful shots. Close to 30 FPE and definitely not backyard friendly without an LDC.
For this test the gun was fired without pellets and the decibel meter was placed about even with the muzzle and 6 feet off to one side.
In the first photo below, the silencers are from Left to Right:
Zero DB 110
Tanto
Geo Short
Sumo
Rocker1
TKO Slim
Geo Long
HUMA 40 Std
Wolf 30mm (Poland)
Wolf 35mm (Poland)
And here are the meter’s dB readings in order of loudest to softest:
99.7 99.4 99.6 (99.57 avg) - Bare barrel (no LDC)
93.9 93.8 96.9 (94.87 avg) - Wolf 30mm
94.0 93.5 93.4 (93.63 avg) - Zero DB 110
87.9 87.8 88.0 (87.90 avg) - TKO Slim
87.5 87.7 88.1 (87.77 avg) - Wolf 35mm
87.8 87.8 87.0 (87.53 avg) - Rocker1
86.3 86.4 86.4 (86.37 avg) - Geo Short
85.3 85.3 85.0 (85.20 avg) - Sumo
84.7 85.2 84.8 (84.90 avg) - Geo Long
83.6 84.2 84.5 (84.10 avg) - Tanto
79.9 79.4 79.6 (79.63 avg) - HUMA 40 Std
It must be said that, with the exception of the two loudest units (although they did seem to take the edge off the gun's report) and the softest unit (the HUMA), the rest of them produced very similar levels of sound reduction, according to my ear. Meaning without the dB meter, they all sounded about the same and it would almost be a tie. And only if I was really listening. But the sound deadening is dramatic going from bare barrel to almost any of the units.
Again these are just relative comparisons that may be of use, no science was harmed (or even consulted!) in the making of this test.
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The Wolves are huge!
Can they be disassembled?
Impressive collection ;D
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Both Poland units failed to impress in spite of their impressive sizes.
Once again the Tanto outperformed its big brother. I was thinking it was an anomaly last time since I used a less powerful gun, and that the larger volumed Sumo would come into its own once the power increased further. But it was not to be, at least not at 30 FPE.
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The Wolves are huge!
Can they be disassembled?
Impressive collection ;D
It doesn't appear possible, they seem sealed and are finished over with either ano or thick paint.
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mrbulk,
Please line them up from the softest to the loudest and post a picture.
or
from the loudest to the softest.
This will show the size vs the sound.
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mrbulk,
Please line them up from the softest to the loudest and post a picture.
or
from the loudest to the softest.
This will show the size vs the sound.
Good idea. Will do in the morning. But be forewarned it may not always correspond how we expect, look at my comment on the Tanto vs Sumo.
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mrbulk,
What would be the results at 10 or 15 FPE?
Geo has made a lot of LDCs for the Daisy 880 and Crosman multi pumps that have 5 to 10 FPE.
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It is interesting to compare the amount of sound reduction of the LDCs.
99.7 99.4 99.6 (99.57 avg) - Bare barrel (no LDC) sound reduction 0.00
93.9 93.8 96.9 (94.87 avg) - Wolf sound reduction 4.70
94.0 93.5 93.4 (93.63 avg) - Zero DB 110 sound reduction 5.94
87.9 87.8 88.0 (87.90 avg) - TKO Slim sound reduction 11.67
87.5 87.7 88.1 (87.77 avg) - Wolf sound reduction 11.80
87.8 87.8 87.0 (87.53 avg) - Rocker1 sound reduction 12.04
86.3 86.4 86.4 (86.37 avg) - Geo Short sound reduction 13.20
85.3 85.3 85.0 (85.20 avg) - Sumo sound reduction 14.37
84.7 85.2 84.8 (84.90 avg) - Geo Long sound reduction 14.67
83.6 84.2 84.5 (84.10 avg) - Tanto sound reduction 15.47
79.9 79.4 79.6 (79.63 avg) - HUMA 40 Std sound reduction 19.94
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Here they are, Top to Bottom in order of loudest to softest:
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mrbulk,
It looks like the Tanto is the winner in the size vs sound reduction comparison.
What do you think?
What is the cost of the Tanto?
You said, "Once again the Tanto outperformed its big brother."
The Tanto is amazing.
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mrbulk,
It looks like the Tanto is the winner in the size vs sound reduction comparison.
What do you think?
What is the cost of the Tanto?
You said, "Once again the Tanto outperformed its big brother."
The Tanto is amazing.
Earl, it's hard to argue with success 8) 8) 8)
Should rename it "The David" ;D
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Note that the Tanto version I have sports the conical endcap. Just by virtue of its shape difference it is slightly longer than the bolt end cap (squared off) option, which means there is just a very slight lengthening/enlarging of the Tanto's initial expansion chamber volume when the pellet first exits the barrel. Perhaps this just might be creating that small difference in effectiveness? ???
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mrbulk,
What would be the results at 10 or 15 FPE?
Geo has made a lot of LDCs for the Daisy 880 and Crosman multi pumps that have 5 to 10 FPE.
I don't yet have any results from lower power guns; I could maybe turn down the Avenger's output but when it's way down but unbalanced (like turning the hammer spring all the way out but the reg pressure is still sort of high) the shot-to-shot output can get a little inconsistent. To turn the reg pressure down I would need to drain (de-gas) the gun and then experiment with what pressure to reset the reg to plus figure out the hammer spring tension, but I don't really want to set up the gun to shoot like that. And also at lower power it would seem many guns are not too loud anyway.
Also both Geo's units have proven effective at higher power (the Avenger was shooting at 30 FPE), yet his LDCs weigh almost nothing relatively, so there's definitely some magic going on in there.
I was going to try a CO2 gun but then I think the shots would all just be more quiet and the sound reduction may not be as apparent at low power, nor as useful.
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Geo's LDCs probably win the price vs sound reduction vs weight comparison.
I have one of Geo's on a Maximus and it is very good.
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Charlie, thanks for your very informative posting as you clear up a lot of questions that I or a lot of us had.
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Great Job! I've been interested in the Huma for a while now
I use both the Neil Clague (Two), DonnyFl Shogun (2 + 1 I can't talk about yet) , (The Shogun is a longer Sumo) and several
Rocker-1's. All are very good at their assigned jobs. 8) It is worth mentioning that I have AG's up to 200 fpe. in .257, 150 fpe in .250, and 94 in .22. 8)
Knife/Mike
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Great Job! I've been interested in the Huma for a while now
I use both the Neil Clague (Two), DonnyFl Shogun (2 + 1 I can't talk about yet) , (The Shogun is a longer Sumo) and several
Rocker-1's. All are very good at their assigned jobs. 8) It is worth mentioning that I have AG's up to 200 fpe. in .257, 150 fpe in .250, and 94 in .22. 8)
Knife/Mike
Hey Knife, very cool collection! Especially the one you can't talk about (and you could always PM me) ;)
And I got me a Neil C. incoming as well, told him to make it nice and big and quiet, awaiting it feverishly. 8) 8) 8)
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Great Job! I've been interested in the Huma for a while now
I use both the Neil Clague (Two), DonnyFl Shogun (2 + 1 I can't talk about yet) , (The Shogun is a longer Sumo) and several
Rocker-1's. All are very good at their assigned jobs. 8) It is worth mentioning that I have AG's up to 200 fpe. in .257, 150 fpe in .250, and 94 in .22. 8)
Knife/Mike
Hey Knife, very cool collection! Especially the one you can't talk about (and you could always PM me) ;)
And I got me a Neil C. incoming as well, told him to make it nice and big and quiet, awaiting it feverishly. 8) 8) 8)
Great work Charlie! If you get around to it, you may want to add an STO Falx to the test list ;) So far, out of all the LDC's I've messed with, NC and Huma are top of the list for me. I want to add STO to that "top of the list" claim too, but I haven't tested it enough to give it that claim just yet. I can say it appears to be very effective though. Knife, that STO Sarissa may worth a look for some of your guns with the bigger bark, although I'd consider how weight affects things if you have a "sensitive" barrel. Otherwise, I'd say you'd be quite happy with a Huma as well.
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[/quote]
Great work Charlie! If you get around to it, you may want to add an STO Falx to the test list ;) So far, out of all the LDC's I've messed with, NC and Huma are top of the list for me. I want to add STO to that "top of the list" claim too, but I haven't tested it enough to give it that claim just yet. I can say it appears to be very effective though. Knife, that STO Sarissa may worth a look for some of your guns with the bigger bark, although I'd consider how weight affects things if you have a "sensitive" barrel. Otherwise, I'd say you'd be quite happy with a Huma as well.
[/quote]
Donny---I was pleasantly surprised with STO's sound reduction. Some time ago I decided to roll the dice and try the extremely small/lightweight STO Brevitas. I've tried it on a plain barrel 30fpe .22 and it just a slight bit louder than the Tanto normally mounted on that particular gun. Where the Brevitas really shines is when added to a shrouded gun. I previously ran a Tatsu in addition to the OEM shroud/hair curlers/washers on my 45fpe P15. I replaced the Tatsu with STO's Brevitas and I can barely tell the difference.
I would say for any well tuned sub 30fpe >16" barreled application the Brevitas is probably one of the most (proportionately) effective, considering its weight and size.
The only critical comment I will make about the STO moderators is the relatively soft plastic construction. For example, the STO was delivered by USPS into a black mailbox on a hot sunny day. Upon opening the package, the plastic was unnervingly soft, I could squeeze it with my fingers. After it cooled down it became firm. it seemed to return to and hold its original shape, but I definitely question its long term durability.
here is a pic of it on my little P15, it is almost a perfect fit with the OEM shroud.
(https://i.imgur.com/Cze6EBL.jpg)
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I like sleeving my LDCs with laser-cut foams:
(https://i.imgur.com/C4kIk9H.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/9cqR4RP.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/38uSrcj.jpg?1)
The TKO with a fake CF wrap does not look cheap anymore:
(https://i.imgur.com/xHNbaVQ.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/ldrSGaM.jpg?1)
The short one fits the Hugget Mini Belita:
(https://i.imgur.com/6ulrWxk.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/Jf9mHmN.jpg?1)
The OD is for a 1.22" tube on the last 2.
I dunno but my LDCs seem quieter with the thick foam sleeves installed.
Probably just my imagination, lol!
Quieter or not, it looks cool and it protects your not so cheap moderators, eh?
;D
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Great work Charlie! If you get around to it, you may want to add an STO Falx to the test list ;) So far, out of all the LDC's I've messed with, NC and Huma are top of the list for me. I want to add STO to that "top of the list" claim too, but I haven't tested it enough to give it that claim just yet. I can say it appears to be very effective though. Knife, that STO Sarissa may worth a look for some of your guns with the bigger bark, although I'd consider how weight affects things if you have a "sensitive" barrel. Otherwise, I'd say you'd be quite happy with a Huma as well.
[/quote]
Donny---I was pleasantly surprised with STO's sound reduction. Some time ago I decided to roll the dice and try the extremely small/lightweight STO Brevitas. I've tried it on a plain barrel 30fpe .22 and it just a slight bit louder than the Tanto normally mounted on that particular gun. Where the Brevitas really shines is when added to a shrouded gun. I previously ran a Tatsu in addition to the OEM shroud/hair curlers/washers on my 45fpe P15. I replaced the Tatsu with STO's Brevitas and I can barely tell the difference.
I would say for any well tuned sub 30fpe >16" barreled application the Brevitas is probably one of the most (proportionately) effective, considering its weight and size.
The only critical comment I will make about the STO moderators is the relatively soft plastic construction. For example, the STO was delivered by USPS into a black mailbox on a hot sunny day. Upon opening the package, the plastic was unnervingly soft, I could squeeze it with my fingers. After it cooled down it became firm. it seemed to return to and hold its original shape, but I definitely question its long term durability.
here is a pic of it on my little P15, it is almost a perfect fit with the OEM shroud.
(https://i.imgur.com/Cze6EBL.jpg)
[/quote]
The Falx and Sarissa are aluminum, and built very well, so I don't have any worries about their reliability. That Brevitas is really small and cool. I think STO made that little dude with the idea of just taking bark away with minimal size and weight. I've been really impressed with the Falx so far.
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Great work Charlie! If you get around to it, you may want to add an STO Falx to the test list ;) So far, out of all the LDC's I've messed with, NC and Huma are top of the list for me. I want to add STO to that "top of the list" claim too, but I haven't tested it enough to give it that claim just yet.
Thanks Donny, if you feel the effectiveness of your STO Faix is nearing that of your NC and Huma, then I'm becoming convinced of its quieting capability.
But I got something on order right now (arrives Friday) so I may have to wait a bit before acquiring ever more LDCs. ::)
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Sadly, I am not able to test the experimental ldc yet. It needs the DonnyFl adapter for my evenex sized tubes and threads. I was cleaning it and took a break. When I returned to the shop, some poltergeist hid it! I've looked everywhere!!! GRRRRRR!!!
Donny, how does one find a place that sells the STO Sarissta?
MIke/Knife
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Sadly, I am not able to test the experimental ldc yet. It needs the DonnyFl adapter for my evenex sized tubes and threads. I was cleaning it and took a break. When I returned to the shop, some poltergeist hid it! I've looked everywhere!!! GRRRRRR!!!
Donny, how does one find a place that sells the STO Sarissta?
MIke/Knife
Here ya go Knife:
https://www.silentthunderordnance.com/air/sarissa (https://www.silentthunderordnance.com/air/sarissa)
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thanks Guy! It is truly interesting to say the least!!! ;) 8)
Knife-Mike
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Roy Kasten makes some really awesome moderators too.
rapidroy2002 at yahoo.com
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Apart from shushing the report well, I like my Tanto over all others I have. Material, fit and finish are top notch, and it's easy on the eyes.
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thanks Guy! It is truly interesting to say the least!!! ;) 8)
Knife-Mike
The thing that has stood out most with the STO Falx is the tone it has. It has a much lower pitch than any other LDC I've heard. I think that is why I'm having a harder time determining how good it really is. It definitely works though.
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thanks Guy! It is truly interesting to say the least!!! ;) 8)
Knife-Mike
The thing that has stood out most with the STO Falx is the tone it has. It has a much lower pitch than any other LDC I've heard. I think that is why I'm having a harder time determining how good it really is. It definitely works though.
Donny, mine should be here Saturday (awaiting it with great anticipation) and the NC on Monday or Tuesday. Then another test (this time With pellets) shall be upcoming.
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Cool test! I'll be looking forward to the Falx review. That's one I've been very interested in myself. The Humas are very good also. Not the first time I've heard that the Sumo wasn't as quiet as one of the smaller DonnyFLs.
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I had a Sumo once and was far from impressed,...it also looked like a can of soup at the end of the barrel :) LOL
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I had a Sumo once and was far from impressed,...it also looked like a can of soup at the end of the barrel :) LOL
You're so subtle, and suave, LOL. :)
That's what I think about them, too. Just not cool enough to say it.
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You're so subtle, and suave, LOL. :)
That's what I think about them, too. Just not cool enough to say it.
Yes, our own Manny can be so soo-wave and de-boner...just kidding Manny. ;D ;D
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I had a Sumo once.... it looked like a can of soup at the end of the barrel :) LOL
Manny, 😄
I like the look of the Sumo! 👍🏼
But then, again, I admit I also like bottle guns. — Yeah, there's that....
And in the interest of full disclosure — I like synthetic stocks a lot better than wood stocks.
Now, you may start throwing your rotten eggs.
Matthias 😄
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Cool test! I'll be looking forward to the Falx review. That's one I've been very interested in myself. The Humas are very good also. Not the first time I've heard that the Sumo wasn't as quiet as one of the smaller DonnyFLs.
I'm anxious to see what kind of db readings Charlie gets out of that Falx myself. Even though I have one, the tone is so different that I'm having a hard time telling if it louder or quieter on the peak. Also, I have the "high flow" Falx, and Charlie ordered the "standard" flow version, so it should be interesting for sure. I had a Sumo, and sold it rather quickly myself. It just did not work well on my gun. The build was great, but just a no go for me.
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Cool test! I'll be looking forward to the Falx review. That's one I've been very interested in myself. The Humas are very good also. Not the first time I've heard that the Sumo wasn't as quiet as one of the smaller DonnyFLs.
I'm anxious to see what kind of db readings Charlie gets out of that Falx myself. Even though I have one, the tone is so different that I'm having a hard time telling if it louder or quieter on the peak. Also, I have the "high flow" Falx, and Charlie ordered the "standard" flow version, so it should be interesting for sure. I had a Sumo, and sold it rather quickly myself. It just did not work well on my gun. The build was great, but just a no go for me.
Yes, and testing *with* pellets this time. ::) ::) ::)
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I had a Sumo once.... it looked like a can of soup at the end of the barrel :) LOL
Manny, 😄
I like the look of the Sumo! 👍🏼
But then, again, I admit I also like bottle guns. — Yeah, there's that....
And in the interest of full disclosure — I like synthetic stocks a lot better than wood stocks.
Now, you may start throwing your rotten eggs.
Matthias 😄
I guess if you like the looks of a large soup can at the end of your barrel it's fine by me, everybody has different tastes.
when I see a rifle with one of them LDCs it hurts my eyes :) :) so many beautiful rifles ruined by a large soup can hunging out front :) :) LOL
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At least they're Black cans of soup usually.
The new bright colored ones or those with the red or blue "accent" bands don't speak to me much.
I wonder if DonnyFL offers a conical endcap? He does for the Tanto, smoothes out the looks on slimmer barrels.
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Put some prices on them so the members see what there dollars buy and sizes, David
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Put some prices on them so the members see what there dollars buy and sizes, David
Mr. David is has posted, you must comply!! Hahaha, It's about time you make some posts in the LDC thread :D I haven't been seeing anything from ya in a while there sir... It is good to see you posting, and I'm not being funny ;)
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thanks Guy! It is truly interesting to say the least!!! ;) 8)
Knife-Mike
The thing that has stood out most with the STO Falx is the tone it has. It has a much lower pitch than any other LDC I've heard. I think that is why I'm having a harder time determining how good it really is. It definitely works though.
"The thing that has stood out most with the STO Falx is the tone it has."
That's an interesting statement in that last night I was watching a TV series on Special OP's, and in particular the Navy Seals.
Of special note was what they said about the "silencer". In the TV episode, they state that it was NOT intended to necessarily "silence" the sound, but rather to change the sound, which connotes to Mikes statement regarding the tone and pitch.
:-X
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The TONE of the sound....
Yeah, I'd agree. 👍🏼
There's fundamental difference between:
(1) lowering the volume of a shot —
so that your wife can sleep longer, or the other critters don't get spooked so you can take them out with your next shot — 8)
(2) and changing the tone of the shot as not to sound like a shot —
so that your neighbors don't get alarmed when you're on feral duty. 8)
(3) And then there is still the camouflaging of the tone by running a powertool while shooting, or dropping a metal container, as to cover up the sound of the shot —
again all for the benefit of the neighbors, of course. 8)
Matthias
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The TONE of the sound....
Yeah, I'd agree. 👍🏼
There's fundamental difference between:
(1) lowering the volume of a shot —
so that your wife can sleep longer, or the other critters don't get spooked so you can take them out with your next shot — 8)
(2) and changing the tone of the shot as not to sound like a shot —
so that your neighbors don't get alarmed when you're on feral duty. 8)
(3) And then there is still the camouflaging of the tone by running a powertool while shooting, or dropping a metal container, as to cover up the sound of the shot —
again all for the benefit of the neighbors, of course. 8)
Matthias
So, bottom line is, have compressor running in the background.
;)
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Odd saying the Sumo is looking like a can. I have the longer version, the Shogun and it is not large in dia. at all. Now the Ronin is very can looking.
The prototype I am testing currently is very soup can looking. LOL!
I did a little playing with it as it had a quiet but high pitched snap. I used some nice synthetic felt I hade here and it became a lower pitched muffled sound. Not offensive at all.
Ernest Rowe has stated that memory foam makes them even deeper sounding. I can't wrap my head around how. Acoustic foam yes, but memory foam has no way for air to pass into it. How it works is a mystery I have not yet investigated.
The Prototype device I Am testing at the moment is odd in that it is VERY Heavy. Which for a bench gun is just the ticket. Not a hunter at all. I am , but the device is not.
Secondly, I wish it had a conical rear cap. It is flat and reflect the light back into my Zeiss making the image when testing or varminting at night difficult.
what it does do is wring out the very last bit of accuacy by taming any harmonics. Ah - You say? ;) ;D 8)
Knife
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I'd have been curious to see how the Huggett Astille would have compared. My recent Prod purchase had me scrambling for a means to quiet it down.
I added a Rocker 1' extended barrel shroud with baffles. It did quiet it down but I needed more. My neighbors were commenting on the "report". I had seen "Andy's Airgun Reviews" moderator comparison and the Huggett Astille was his winner. It also has add on extensions you can add if need be. I bought the Astille and an extra extension. First I tried using the Astille + the Rocker 1 shroud but it was still too noticeable, so then I added the Huggett extension and that really did the trick. Now I can sighting my Prod from my window to my rat target w/o my neighbor's noticing. I bought the .25 version to be sure I had no clipping issues. While I'm not totally keen on it's looks I am totally happy with how well it works.
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That is the first I've seen about the Astille. I'm not gonna lie, it is ugly as sin to me. But... If it works, it works. I saw another review where it bested the Ronin and the Ramus, and that is some solid competition I'd say. On that review the person kept saying the dild*, I mean Astille, hahaha! Andy was looking for where batteries go when he received it as well, lol.
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Yeah, I thought that was pretty funny too, especially coming from Andy. It's a bit toy-ish looking, but I didn't want to take a chance on something and not have it work as well as I needed. The price was right and it did offer the add-on feature which I wanted as well. The nice thing is the effectively lengthened barrel (shroud) allows me safer sighting since; the small target area, the steep shot angle, the height and depth of the table I'm shooting from, and only being 5'9" height, all combine to limit my effective sighting range. I've been very careful to check before I shoot, that I won't clip the window frame on a shot, but life isn't perfect and no longer is the window frame. The effective longer barrel (shroud) now allows me to more easily see any possible "frame issues."
When I have to "sight in" the scope/Prod, I have a cardboard box fitted with a big telephone book and rat silhouettes. This is placed at the bird feeder where the rats come to feast. Now, the Prod is so quiet that the birds in the nearby bushes or squirrels in the yard barely react to a shot. I think they're reacting more to the sound of the pellet hitting the target.
This whole "sighting in" thing is still a bit of a mystery to me, especially now that my PCP's exhibit the same behavior as my nitro-piston's. But that's a discussion for a different forum.
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I've been very careful to check before I shoot, that I won't clip the window frame on a shot, but life isn't perfect and no longer is the window frame.
This cracked me up. I like how you slipped that in there. :D
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I think its a good thing to compare ldcs, thing that gets me they always compare sound they do not consider the size or the dollars spent, A honest comparison is sound, size, for the dollars spent . David
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David the only LDC's that I use besides the stock ones that came on my Sentry's and Airmax Dominator are yours, they work fantastic and I've never had a complaint.
I use this one on my Benjamin Cayden, I did drill the baffles big enough for .25's too so out of the two like this that I have I'll be using one on three different rifles and my Prod.
(https://i.imgur.com/5yXrxs8.jpg)
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I think its a good thing to compare ldcs, thing that gets me they always compare sound they do not consider the size or the dollars spent, A honest comparison is sound, size, for the dollars spent.
David
David,
I gladly include your silencers in my Silencer Specs Table! 😄
Just send me the specs to fill in the table.... 😄
Do you have several different "standard" sizes? What are they?
Also, are there different colors available, different materials, end caps, etc.? 👍🏼
And some photos, of course. I suspect there a quite a few people that do not just care about the performance, but the looks....! 😄
Matthias
Atttachment: Silencer Specs Table
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I have several Rocker-1 ldc's. I
use them in my pcp hand guns. Love-em! ;)
The light weight is a real + for them.
Knife
Wish I could show what I am testing now It is only apx 5 1/2" X 2" in dia. reall lookng like a can. LOL, and "HEAVY!"!! But works so very well. Love it! Talk about increasing accuracy. :o ;) 8)
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I do like my own one version of the Rocker, slim and light and suppresses about as well as most among the entire pack, great value for money *Plus* you can take them apart for cleaning and general maintenance. 8)
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After shooting with Privateer, I was sold on the Donny FL.
But the Emperor was so dang big... and the Shogun isn't much smaller.
Because of this thread (and others) I just ordered a Tanto. ;)
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1875/7837/products/Tanto1_0f718131-3d19-4348-bce0-44387c4d097d_1024x1024@2x.gif?v=1537327957)
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After shooting with Privateer, I was sold on the Donny FL.
But the Emperor was so dang big... and the Shogun isn't much smaller.
Because of this thread (and others) I just ordered a Tanto. ;)
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1875/7837/products/Tanto1_0f718131-3d19-4348-bce0-44387c4d097d_1024x1024@2x.gif?v=1537327957)
Hey Scott that looks just like mine! Except I got the tapered endcap is the only difference. But in low- to mid-powered guns at least, the Tanto (in my tests anyway) seemed to quiet things as well or better than some of the larger cans... ???
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I bought the tapered endcap as well... along with the 11mm to 1//2-20 thread slip on adapter.
Maxine has hated to be stifled... If this doesn't work on her it will go on the Kratos. ;)
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I bought the tapered endcap as well... along with the 11mm to 1//2-20 thread slip on adapter.
Maxine has hated to be stifled... If this doesn't work on her it will go on the Kratos. ;)
The DFL 11mm adapter won’t fit your 22xx barrel—it will be too tight.
The 1 that you need to order is for the Disco, which has a belly undercut in DFL’s site.
The right adapter is 11.05mm..
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OH SNAP!!!
I researched and measured...TWICE.
I thought the 11mm is what I need.
Guess some reaming is in order. ::)
Do you think the .05mm interference may work if I put the adapter in the oven and the gun in the freezer?
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Not worth the trouble, sir.
There was 1 gent who asked me about it but still ordered the 11mm, so, IIRIC, he returned it.
Good thing DFL is a super accommodating gent.
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YES HE IS!
I emailed him with my order number and asked he replace the 11mm adapter with one for the Crosman #A30.
He answered me back first thing this morning and is going to make the correction.
THANK YOU RICH!
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YES HE IS!
I emailed him with my order number and asked he replace the 11mm adapter with one for the Crosman #A30.
He answered me back first thing this morning and is going to make the correction.
THANK YOU RICH!
Alrighty ;D
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It arrived, It's wonderful!
High quality, easy on the eyes, quiets the "Bark" to a "Ping" and POI did not change!
WINNER!
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Great thread! I didn't see any of the ones I own in this list, so will add that the the Emperor on a big bore works very well. Also, the Shogun on a .30 cal Impact, and the Reflex on the Marauders. I am very pleased with these. I did purchase another that wasn't pleasing, but will leave the name out. Rocker1 has always received good reviews, but have never owned one.
Forgot to add: Something I was told by one of these LDC manufactures is that the more you push them, the better they work...
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I think its a good thing to compare ldcs, thing that gets me they always compare sound they do not consider the size or the dollars spent, A honest comparison is sound, size, for the dollars spent . David
David, the Rocker1 did especially well in this most recent thread:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=179339.new#new (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=179339.new#new)
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I'm sold on the STO Falix, good price, relatively small, well built, works great, have two will buy more.
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I got a Tanto on my 600
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Cool! And the little Tanto looks positively Monster on that 600! 8)
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Where do you buy those GEO LDC's? Those look good for the size.
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Where do you buy those GEO LDC's? Those look good for the size.
Airgun Universe, he’s been closed up for awhile. Wish he’d start back up: https://www.airgununiverse.net/wp/store/ (https://www.airgununiverse.net/wp/store/)
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I love the humas and have 2 30mm ones and just got a 40mm to try on my kral jumbo. Giant shroud that ends right at the end of the barrel so basically and barrel tensioner with no sound reduction. Should tame it down nicely. I have been using my .25 cal 30mm ones in three segments and they still do great. I bought 4 section ones. The machining is so nice and they can be stripped down and cleaned very easily. The modularity is key for me.
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I have a LDC I bought for my Origin about a month ago. When googling around I found this info. Is this info current cause it seems like it's not in effect as far as buying one?
Are airgun suppressors legal?
Assuming you live in the United States, you can't just go out and buy a silencer for your air gun. Instead, you first have to write to or reach out to your federal government and request their permission for the silencer. If you get turned down for any reason, then that's it, it's game over for you.
Found this here
Air Gun Silencers: Everything You Need to Know - AirGun Insighthttps://www.airguninsight.com › air-gun-
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Found this also on site in previous post;
We don’t want to present any misconceptions here and make it sound like getting a silencer for your air gun is easy. It’s very often anything but.
Assuming you live in the United States, you can’t just go out and buy a silencer for your air gun. Instead, you first have to write to or reach out to your federal government and request their permission for the silencer. If you get turned down for any reason, then that’s it, it’s game over for you. No air gun silencer.
Why all the red tape, you ask? Unlike owning a firearm, which is written into the US Constitution, there’s nothing in there about silencers. Thus, any state can decide to decline your request of owning one if they so choose.
Certain states do allow for silencer ownership on a private level. These are as follows:
Wyoming
Wisconsin
West Virginia
Virginia
Utah
Texas
Tennessee
South Dakota
South Carolina
Pennsylvania
Oregon
Oklahoma
Ohio
North Dakota
North Carolina
New Mexico
New Hampshire
Nevada
Nebraska
Montana
Maryland
Maine
Louisiana
Kentucky
Indiana
Idaho
Georgia
Florida
Connecticut
Colorado
Arizona
Arkansas
Alabama
If you count ‘em all up, those are indeed 36 out of 51 states. Okay then, so what’s the problem? Well, here’s where things get a little tricky.
Allowing for private ownership of an air gun silencer just means that you don’t risk any legal penalization if live in a state on that list of 36 and you’re caught using your silencer in say, your backyard. That’s all.
What it doesn’t mean is that your application for a silencer will naturally be approved just because you call one of the above states home. Remember, those permissions happen on a local or federal level, not a personal level.
Okay, well you at least want to try to see if you can get approval to buy an air gun silencer. What kind of form would you have to fill out? Can you just write an informal letter? You can write a letter if you really wanted to, but you’d also need to accompany it with ATF Form 4.
You can take a look at the form online right here. Download the PDF, print out the form, and complete it at your leisure. As the form says, you’re reaching out to the National Firearms Act Division through the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Colorado.
You need to include your own personal information, such as your full name, home address, phone number, and email address.
There’s also a section asking for information about the gun in question. Such as; the manufacturer, where the gun was imported from, its model, barrel length, overall length, and serial number as applicable. If you transferred the gun or bought a transferred one, you’d need to add that info in as well.
Besides the completed ATF Form 4, you also need to send along a $200 check (oh yeah, this isn’t free) and passport photos. Your local police office will get your fingerprints, which are part of your application as well.
Once you send in all your materials, it’s a waiting game. As we said before, you could get turned down for any reason and even a reason that’s never revealed to you.
It doesn’t seem like you can appeal the rejection, so you’re stuck. You could always wait and then try applying again or apply with a different air gun. You could still get turned down every time, though. It happens.
The good news is that if you do win the approval to own an air gun silencer, that’s it, you’re all set. You never have to apply for that silencer again. While it’s quite a time-consuming, pricy, and exasperating process then, it will be worth it if your silencer gets approved.
Where Can You Find Air Gun Silencers?
Alright, so you’re all ready to buy an air gun silencer because your state allows you to own one. Congratulations! Now you’re on the hunt to buy one.
Due to the tight legal restrictions with air gun silencer ownership, you’re not going to find them all over the net. That limits your options, but it can’t really be helped in this case. Here are some sites you can try researching to find the perfect silencer for your air gun.
Pyramid Air
If you already bought your air gun from Pyramid Air, then you might as well get your silencer from them, too. They have single suppressors as well as whole kits. Their silencers include brands like JBU, Air Venturi, AirForce, and more.
Airguns of Arizona
You can also find a slew of silencers for your air gun on Airguns of Arizona. This retailer sells air pistols and rifles, scopes and mounts, ammo, and accessories like bipods and air cylinders.
Admittedly, the silencers here aren’t exactly cheap, as they cost upwards of $200 and more. The range of silencers is a little better than those at Pyramid Air, though.
Palm Beach Air Guns
Like Airguns of Arizona, Palm Beach Air Guns is a retailer of air guns and accessories. They have about 15 suppressors available on their website as of this writing. These too are on the pricier side, with the cheapest option $100.
Palm Beach Air Guns mostly stocks DonnyFL silencers, including models like the TANTO, SUMO, TATSU, RONIN, EMPEROR, KOI, and SHOGUN.
Krale
If you don’t want to spend a lot of money on your silencer considering you dropped $200 for an application fee, another inexpensive place to shop is Krale. Their silencers are as cheap as $23 and as costly as $155, so whatever fits your budget, you can find it here.
Can You Make Your Own Air Gun Silencer?
If the legalities of buying an air gun silencer didn’t trip you up, then perhaps you found it difficult to track any down a silencer for purchase. You still want to muzzle your air gun, but you’re starting to run out of options. Could you possibly make your own air gun silencer at home?
Crafty gun enthusiasts have indeed done such a thing using common household items like pillows filled with foam, plastic water bottles, and PVC pipes. These are known as improvised silencers.
If you live in the US, these improvised silencers are still liable under the laws that govern manufactured silencers. Don’t think you can bypass the law by going the DIY route, then.
In fact, given that knowledge, there’s almost no need to ever make your own homemade silencer. Given the materials you’re working with, you can’t guarantee the safety of the silencer. If a part catches on fire or moves out of place, it could be very dangerous to operate your air gun. You could get severely injured, possibly even fatally.
If you absolutely must have an air gun silencer, then it’s much better to go the manufactured route if it’s legal where you live.
Conclusion
Air gun silencers reduce the noisy impact of firing your pellet through the gun, and they can even reduce recoil somewhat. While silencers sound like something handy that every air gun owner should have, there are strict laws about ownership. You have to fill out a form, pay an application fee, and hope your silencer is allowed. If it is, you never have to reapply again.
While there are a handful of air gun retailers that sell silencers, you do want to make sure they’re legal in your state before you order one. Best of luck!
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Interesting.
A very long post.
I don't see any U.S government information here at all. Just the website "insight".
Where is the truth?
Hunter
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That's what I am thinking. Maybe someone else will commit.
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If what was shared about silencer legality were absolutely true and enforceable, most airgunners would forfeit their units and be charged with some type of crime, and the silencer mfrs who sold the units to them would be in jail.
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BTW this outdated silencer testing thread is going on two years old now, and much of the testing data has been superseded by additional, more accurate procedures and results.
See the latest silencer test (this time with 20 different units) here:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=182738.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=182738.0)
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The stuff I've read concerning US laws seems to me that...
- An airgun is not a firearm, so your silencer isn't breaking silencer firearm laws if you don't have any firearms (PBs).
- What it's made of is unimportant. If it's made out of steel, plastic, or pasta, and it's supposed to make a PB quieter, it's a silencer. Laws are enforced on intent, not effectiveness.
- If your airgun silencer doesn't fit your PB guns, then you're not breaking any laws, e.g. 1/2-20 silencer vs 1/2-28 on the PB, or your 12-gauge doesn't have a fitting.
- If your airgun silencer does fit your PB, or you have the parts handy to make it fit, then you're breaking the law.
However IANAL, and we need to scare up a lawyer to look at it.
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I agree with pretty much everything in the post above, but it speaks to the US - aka the Federal government. Some states have their own laws that are different (and more strict) than that, including the fact that some of them consider airguns firearms too . . .
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Found this also on site in previous post;
{*}
Les, I would like to know where you found that info.
If it was a forum, I would like to see the rebuttal.
Air gun silencers aren't serialized like fire arm silencer are for registration purposes. ::)
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Scott here's the web site I found;
https://www.airguninsight.com/air-gun-silencers-everything-you-need-to-know/ (https://www.airguninsight.com/air-gun-silencers-everything-you-need-to-know/)
See what you think.
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Scott here's the web site I found;
https://www.airguninsight.com/air-gun-silencers-everything-you-need-to-know/ (https://www.airguninsight.com/air-gun-silencers-everything-you-need-to-know/)
See what you think.
There’s some pretty crazy stuff on that website. Seems anyone can have a website or a blog with no repercussions. I’d personally not visit there again. Kinda like a restaurant with a nice sign, poor service and bad food.
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Agree completely that the info on that site is bad - somebody just wrote what they thought was fact without checking any of it. Just a bunch of random made up BS, with a few things in there that by dumb luck are actually correct - but most of it is just plain wrong.
But I disagree with your analogy - that page is not like a restaurant with a nice sign that turns out to be bad. It is more like a building that looks like a restaurant, and with a nice sign saying so, but when you make the effort to walk in you find out that it is a sewage treatment plant . . . .
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Scott here's the web site I found;
https://www.airguninsight.com/air-gun-silencers-everything-you-need-to-know/ (https://www.airguninsight.com/air-gun-silencers-everything-you-need-to-know/)
See what you think.
I read the article. The guy is a complete idiot!!! I live in Tennessee, silencers for PBs ARE legal. Class 3 background check and $200 transfer fee, just like a fully automatic weapon. As far as having to have the gummint's permission to buy an AIR GUN suppressor, NO WAY!!! I don't know where he got his misinformation, but it is wrong!!
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The true dark side of the internet. Any idiot (like this guy) can put up &^^& like this for everyone to see.
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Did you read his post on shipping airguns with USPS. :o
https://www.airguninsight.com/can-you-mail-an-air-gun/ (https://www.airguninsight.com/can-you-mail-an-air-gun/)
According to USPS procedures and policies, some air guns can be mailed, but they must not count as a firearm per the USPS definition.
Even if you can mail your air gun, remember that a Federal Firearms License is necessary for the recipient.
People... People... PEOPLE!
PA-LEEZE
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Nice GIF!!! I may need to use it in a video of a song I wrote. Where did you find it?
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Reading more... This guy is so full of poop his eyes are brown!
And no way to reply or contact him without giving more info on myself than I want him to have.
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How did a thread about the effectiveness of moderators turn into a legality issue on ownership? Some people just got to derail a good train.
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I like sleeving my LDCs with laser-cut foams:
..... I dunno but my LDCs seem quieter with the thick foam sleeves installed.
Probably just my imagination, lol!
Quieter or not, it looks cool and it protects your not so cheap moderators, eh?
;D
It's not your imagination.
As I posted in MrBulk's original test-thread, after I got my DonnyFL Shogun, I was less tha impressed. Then I realized that the aluminum housing itself was ringing. (or "pinging" or whatever you want to call it.) This was a VERY noticeable ping, at maybe 2 - 4 KHz. (I didn't measure it, but I'm an audio engineer so I can pretty much hear pitches accurately.) Imagine your neighbor hitting a thick steel plate with a hammer. - That kind of sound, just not as loud.
I wrapped mine in duct tape, and the ping dissappeared. I emailed this info to the company, recommending that they make some kind of "rubber" wrap for their units, but it doesn't seem that they listened. I would imagine that most aluminum moderators exhibit this problem to some extent. Aluminum is an excellent transmitter of sound energy.
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Interestingly, after I read about the Sarissa moderator on this (And MrBulk's newest) threads, I went to their site and did some reading. They actually have a section that talks about shroud dampening, and how raw metal can ping. (And yet they make their own housings out of aluminum, go figure..)
They also state that "escape holes" in both moderators and shrouds are actually a bad idea, doing either nothing or even actually increasing volume. Evidently they've done a lot of testing on this. VERY interesting, to say the least. This actually jives with something a respected online guy said about the Hatsan shrouds: He found that, after adding a short moderator like the Tatsu, the gun was quieter if the shroud's hole was blocked. (Personally I found no difference, but I use a Shogun.)
When I wrapped my Shogun with duct tape, I left its holes open, but now I'm gonna' try it with tape over them.