GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Ribbonstone on September 14, 2020, 03:37:08 PM
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Simple questions.
How much power do you really need for short range practice?
Been rest,cross sticks, bi-pod,or off hand....how much difference does power make when you're shooting paper or plinking paintbals/spinners at 20-30 yards?
Is there some kind of big-recoil difference with higher power that makes practicing with them at full power a requirment?
Is there some way you make the faster/powerul airguns quieter than the slower/less powerful airgunswith the same noise-reduction set up?
Is there some way you get more shots per fill at high power than at low power?
Is there no pellet that can manage the short range accuracy from that barrel at lower power?
Does it make senseto keep one as a practice rifle or is anything that's not jacked-up in power useless to you?
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Outside my FT guns .... the lowley QB-79 in .177 gets shot the most. It is my go too yard gun for small pests and for fun plinking uses. At just @ 12ft lbs power it loves Crosman 7.9's shooting them 810'ish.
Tri seat and sticks and almost NEVER shoot off a bench with a fair amount of offhand being rifles so darn light.
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I live in a townhouse and I have 30 yds clear to shoot out back. Entire row has rear (common) driveways and garages. I am at the end of the row. shooting is not prohibited but I try to be subtle about it. My immediate neighbors don't care. I shoot int a champion trap with duct seal on the back.
lower powered guns allow much more quiet shooting. My most powerful is the Liberty at 39 -40 fpe, I can shoot it there but don't shoot it as much as others.
I have not detuned any of my guns but am happy to shoot what I have, mostly at stock power levels. My other Liberty and Freedom and now my Akela I will shoot with adjuster turned down.
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HW30 with lami stock with rowan layback trigger and a 3-9x32AO Leupold at 30yds on spinners is my best time shooting. That little gun is a tack driver with 7.33 AAs . Super clear glass helps big time. Most fun gun we own! 699-702 fps
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FWIW, imho, how much power needed for backyard practice depends upon three primary factors. How big is the backyard, what are you shooting at, and what's the desired outcome you're trying to achieve. All safety measures and precautions being taken should be
able to stop a projectile shot at higher energy levels of course.
As per noise and shot counts, I can't say. I guess it boils down to what's good enough for the individual shooter.
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also a 499b Daisy with a trigger job and ground shot shooting at jello shot paper shot cups at 20yds is a Hoot. 500fps with Red Ryder spring and back piston fork mod. Another tack driver for being a smooth bore
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Simple questions.
How much power do you really need for short range practice?
Been rest,cross sticks, bi-pod,or off hand....how much difference does power make when you're shooting paper or plinking paintbals/spinners at 20-30 yards?
Is there some kind of big-recoil difference with higher power that makes practicing with them at full power a requirment?
Is there some way you make the faster/powerul airguns quieter than the slower/less powerful airgunswith the same noise-reduction set up?
Is there some way you get more shots per fill at high power than at low power?
Is there no pellet that can manage the short range accuracy from that barrel at lower power?
Does it make senseto keep one as a practice rifle or is anything that's not jacked-up in power useless to you?
Simple questions that if contemplated too deeply unveils the fact that many of the exotic expensive high powered rifles thats we covet are not any more accurate or fun than the sub $200 "cheapy" rifles, especially if you have a backyard with say less than 35yards shooting lane. I have sub $200 QB rifles that on sandbags IMHO could go H2H with the more expensive rifles under 50yards. Granted, putting an LW barrel on it (Thanks Jason) makes it just that much funner! Although, I have to admit, my FWB300 is starting to take over! ;D Now if I can just find my old daisey 880. I cant remember where I put her!
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I have 48 yards i can shoot in my yard. I almost exclusively shoot my 7fpe HW30, or 7fpe 2400kt and they are both accurate enough to hit paintballs at that distance.
Also consider most quality guns will shoot any pellet accurate at yards so you can get away with plinking cheap pellets and still hit what your aiming at.
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Not really sure the best answer here but I will just answer my best :P
You only need what you need, and sometimes that's for plinking walnuts at 15 yards or sometimes thats testing accuracy out to 75.
I exclusively shoot my daystate huntsman for hunting/pesting and only shoot at targets to test a new tune/projectile combo or a test shot to check zero before going out. I do not plink or practice with it, and it it stays at "max" power tunes for those purposes.
My R9 I use for plinking and practice shooting, as well as pesting and hunting. I have played with tunes for lower power and have found that the accuracy of the gun is enhanced when kept at full power tune. It is easier to be accurate with the faster lockup times and shorter pellet dwell, and since i use it to pest/hunt the downrange energy and flatter trajectory of higher power are wanted.
I have detuned the daystate for shot count in the past as well and found it to be less accurate at 50+ yards with same pellets vs higher power. I'm sure that has many factors like more wind effect and dwell time on the slower projectile that don't help me be more accurate with the gun.
In short, I dont think its higher vs lower power guns that makes accuracy any different, but rather that a particular platform is most accurate at its peak power range vs being detuned. That's my findings anyways and thus, I keep all my guns at full power for thier platform.
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Is there some way you make the faster/powerful airguns quieter than the slower/less powerful airgunswith the same noise-reduction set up?
1. A shorter higher pressure pulse of air should be quieter than
2. a longer lower pressure pulse.
By pulse I means valve dwell.
So, at the same power # 1 would be quieter. If you could double the starting pressure and shorten valve dwell further, it may be possible to increase power, yet be quieter.
Why is that?
If you keep shooting a PCP off the regulator (or unregulated) it gets louder and louder as the reservoir pressure drops. This is because the valve is staying open longer and longer, trying to compensate for the lower pressure.
But, closing the valve "late" results in a higher muzzle pressure - thus more noise. So, do the opposite to reduce the noise: Start at a much higher pressure, but take a very small "sip" of air. To achieve most of the projectile acceleration in the first quarter of the barrel length.
Obviously you can't just double operating pressure, unless the system was designed to handle that safely. Also, pumping to 4000 PSI is much harder than pumping to 2000 PSI.
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Is there some way you get more shots per fill at high power than at low power?
As a matter of principle that sounds very unlikely. Total power per fill equals number of shot multiplied by average power per shot. So, 100 shots at 10 FPE = the same thing as 50 shots at 20 FPE.
The devil is in the details. So, the actual efficiency depends on the design choices made by the manufacturer. And how power is adjusted. I suspect that an airgun designed for 30 FPE might not be very efficient at 5 FPE. But it might be much more efficient at 20 FPE.
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We're real picky about setting up "prefect" long range rifles, and it seems to pay off to match the rifle to the requirmenets....seems like being just as picky about the short range rifles does as well.
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Have 30 yards but have a self imposed 12 fpe limit for my back yard... so have a small fleet of 13xx carbines and pistols... Two Daisy 953 (1985 L.W. barrel & 2004 Daisy barrel) and a Crosman 2100... That is my back yard airsenal
My Bud that had an small orchard sold and moved to be near his parents back east... for all my PCP rifles I now go about 5-10 miles and 1500-2500 ft up the canyon...
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Do have that mental divsion....
Rifles that do shoot well,but are harder to shoot well. Do these actully make better practice rifles becasue they force you to seriously consentrate to get everything right? They magnify errors,which might be a good thing for practice.
Could go with low vel. springers ...which can shoot really well when you manange to do every thing just right all the time.....how is that a bad thing?
Or easy to shoot short range rifles, that mimic the long range PCP's in ease of shooting, just with redreduced ballistics? They minimalize errors,which might give a false sense of long range ability.
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For my current yard, I can go to 60 yards. Even with that, the majority of my shooting is sub20fpe. Yes, that's the field target power limit, but also is just about right for the distance I have to shoot at home.
The exception is if I happen to have a review gun on-hand that is capable of bigger fpe.
Will likely be moving in the next 6 months (post-remodel) to a new-to-me house with 130-150 yards off the back porch, creek behind that, and nothing on the other side of the creek. Long range paper punching and plinking will be much more convenient, but I still predict most of my "yard" (read property) shooting will be with sub 20 fpe. The pellet price, air conservation, noise factor, etc just make 20fpe and below the sweet spot for getting to shoot a bunch.
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I’m lucky to have federal property boarding my property have a small house on mine ,can shoot up to 100yds.+- .All my arms are modified quite . I also harvest animals with my Bulldog but head shots “ only” .I have neighbors on the other 3 sides of my lot they never know I’m shooting.
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Simple questions.
How much power do you really need for short range practice?
Been rest,cross sticks, bi-pod,or off hand....how much difference does power make when you're shooting paper or plinking paintbals/spinners at 20-30 yards?
Is there some kind of big-recoil difference with higher power that makes practicing with them at full power a requirment?
Is there some way you make the faster/powerul airguns quieter than the slower/less powerful airgunswith the same noise-reduction set up?
Is there some way you get more shots per fill at high power than at low power?
Is there no pellet that can manage the short range accuracy from that barrel at lower power?
Does it make senseto keep one as a practice rifle or is anything that's not jacked-up in power useless to you?
You're asking too many questions at once.
1) Not much 6-12 FPE is plenty
2) Apples and oranges on positions
3) No
4) No
5) No
6) Yes, look at Olympic shooting
7) You can't have too many airguns (as long as your wife doesn't know or care)
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How much power do you really need for short range practice? I'm with the "not much" school of thought. Although I've not shot an air rifle with "much" power, and in reality the power we're speaking of is only relative to other air rifles. 20-30 yards I think 12 fpe is plenty.
Been rest,cross sticks, bi-pod,or off hand....how much difference does power make when you're shooting paper or plinking paintbals/spinners at 20-30 yards? Makes a bigger "plink" or splatter. With paper, the pellets splatter on the steel backstop instead of "flower."
Is there some kind of big-recoil difference with higher power that makes practicing with them at full power a requirment? Not in my experience.
Is there some way you make the faster/powerul airguns quieter than the slower/less powerful airgunswith the same noise-reduction set up? No.
Is there some way you get more shots per fill at high power than at low power? Don't see how.
Is there no pellet that can manage the short range accuracy from that barrel at lower power? Don't see how.
Does it make senseto keep one as a practice rifle or is anything that's not jacked-up in power useless to you? I think it makes sense to keep a rifle ready to go with ammo, targets etc. so that it doesn't take more that a grab it and go to the range. If that means a dedicated rifle so be it. Right now, both my pellet rifles are ready to go hunting or to the range (zeroed the same). I'm a turret turner, so range doesn't matter. If something is jacked up in power so that it is useless to me, it doesn't make sense to me.
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For those (most of us) that doen't have the set up some do,would be careless to bang away with a high powered PCP in subrubia. For that matter,would be careless to shoot any airgun in some locations (And one "oops" would be all it takes).
Just thinking of airguns as a tool box....each made for a specific job...not just a box of hammers.
Doug:
Pretty much agree.
#2. Wasn't worded well enough to get to the two main points.
IF you know that you'll be shooting at 20-30 yards,how mmuch trajectory/windage differnce is there going to be between 600fps and a 900 FPS if both sighted dead on at 25 yards?
EDIT: And how is that difference a bad thin in practice?If anything,it makes short range practice more like longer range simulation.
How much power does it take to punch a hole in paper, spaltter a paintball, of flip overcut down a tall weed?
EDIT: the quiet things you can do...metal targets tend to "ting" pretty loudly and cast off spatter.
#7. Does come a point were you will spend as much time in basic mantainece as you do actually shooting.....past that number of airguns,are becoming like the "crazy cat woman" and have too many to reasonably take care of.
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How much power do you really need for short range practice?
The three best groups I've ever shot at 25 yds are basically .4" CTC (sub-dime) with these three rifles:
19.3 fpe GAMO Urban .22
12.2 fpe Brocock Bantam .177
8.5 fpe Hammerli 850 .177
Oddly enough, the one that shoots most consistently at 85 yds is the Hammerli.
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In back yard area I can shoot my XP air guns ranger .45 with around 800 FPE .... ;D my neighbors' say it sounds like a nail gun ... ;D ;D ;D PERFECT !
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Just gotta ask....what stalks your back yard that needs 800foot pounds to kill?
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Just gotta ask....what stalks your back yard that needs 800foot pounds to kill?
Plywood ... ;D up to 7 spaced sheets of 3/4 .. :o :o or anything that annoys me crawling across the property , and we got everything here ... The .45 stuff in my pic is what I use plus many others ...