GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => UK Airgun Gate => Topic started by: dave2288 on September 08, 2020, 11:36:16 AM
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Anyone here still got one? Mine is .25, it was tuned about 12 years ago by david slade. Power dropped about 100 fps so its down to 26 fpe, not sure if i want to have slade rebuild it again or get it gas rammed. Thoughts from anyone that had it done?
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I have a Beeman Kodiak in .25.
Same gun.
It is still packed from our last move,so dunno how it is shooting.
Takes 3 men and a small boy to cock the critter,tho............
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I don't have a Patriot, but I've basically dreamed of having one ever since reading about them in gun magazines in the late 80's. Turk Patriots have such terrible rep (guns self-firing during cocking etc.) that it's a no go.
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I don't have a Patriot, but I've basically dreamed of having one ever since reading about them in gun magazines in the late 80's. Turk Patriots have such terrible rep (guns self-firing during cocking etc.) that it's a no go.
I was always curious about the turk pats, but after a bit of research it seems that the spring hatsan 135s were a bit stronger and the 135 qe gas rammed guns are much better all around. I know some tuners wont even work on the turkish guns anymore because of the level of inconsistent quality and size of parts, so my curiosity has gone down a lot, but its still there a tad
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I have a Beeman Kodiak in .25.
Same gun.
It is still packed from our last move,so dunno how it is shooting.
Takes 3 men and a small boy to cock the critter,tho............
Is it a gun youre still hopong to hold on to?
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I have one. It was professionally tuned by the previous owner. I can't remember who tuned it nor who I bought it from. its picky with pellets. Some pellets are shotgun patterns. Others are very tight. Iirc, H&N hollow points do very well. I'm not willing to sell it because I really just got it for my collection of .25 cal springers. One issue I have with it is the barrel lock-up doesn't hold the barrel locked. I guess the chisel doesn't produce enough force to hold it in place. Just bumping the gun against the sandbag when I set it in place to take a shot is enough to dislodge the barrel/breech/chisel. I haven't figured it out. I'm open to suggestions. The barrel pivot bolt is tight. There's no horizontal movement of the breech block in the forks. Its just a loose/weak chisel.
I've also had a hard time finding an acceptable sighting system for it. None of the Williams peep sights work well in it. I should try a UTG scope now that I've found a pellet that is definitely accurate at 10m. I'd rather have a peep sight system. That muzzle attachement/front sight is just weird making it hard to find a peep system for it.
Mine is English. I wouldn't touch a Turkish made one; just get a proper Hatsan instead. A 125, 130 or 135 will do.
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I have one. It was professionally tuned by the previous owner. I can't remember who tuned it nor who I bought it from. its picky with pellets. Some pellets are shotgun patterns. Others are very tight. Iirc, H&N hollow points do very well. I'm not willing to sell it because I really just got it for my collection of .25 cal springers. One issue I have with it is the barrel lock-up doesn't hold the barrel locked. I guess the chisel doesn't produce enough force to hold it in place. Just bumping the gun against the sandbag when I set it in place to take a shot is enough to dislodge the barrel/breech/chisel. I haven't figured it out. I'm open to suggestions. The barrel pivot bolt is tight. There's no horizontal movement of the breech block in the forks. Its just a loose/weak chisel.
I've also had a hard time finding an acceptable sighting system for it. None of the Williams peep sights work well in it. I should try a UTG scope now that I've found a pellet that is definitely accurate at 10m. I'd rather have a peep sight system. That muzzle attachement/front sight is just weird making it hard to find a peep system for it.
Mine is English. I wouldn't touch a Turkish made one; just get a proper Hatsan instead. A 125, 130 or 135 will do.
I will definitely recommend you contact david slade, hes worked on these guns for decades and has tons of spare parts. It soulds like a weak detent spring and im sure he could tale care of that for you. My patriot shoots most pellets very well, its not picky at all. When slade first tuned it, it was shooting barracuda match pellets at 32 fpe and stacked em on top of each other so thats what i stuck with
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Yeah, I'm with ya, David and Tim - the Hatsan 135 took the wind out of the Patriot sails for me, too. My next gun will be one of those, unless someone sells me an English Patriot for similarish petty price - very unlikely.
Over the years, I've had nothing but bad experiences with cheaply made stuff, in particular when it comes to guns & ammo. What I'd really like is a quality manufacturer to come up with a .25 cal, 40J+, classically styled springer, but that just isn't going to happen.
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No a 40J springer isn't going to happen. Physics. Although, I think Theoben made a model or two that may have come close. If you really want that power, then a pcp is what you need; accuracy will be easier too.
BTW: How do I contact this David Slade person? The name rings a bell and he may have been the one to tune my gun in the first place.
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No a 40J springer isn't going to happen. Physics. Although, I think Theoben made a model or two that may have come close. If you really want that power, then a pcp is what you need; accuracy will be easier too.
BTW: How do I contact this David Slade person? The name rings a bell and he may have been the one to tune my gun in the first place.
His website is airgunwerks.com. great guy
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No a 40J springer isn't going to happen. Physics. [...] If you really want that power, then a pcp is what you need; accuracy will be easier too.
No offense, but that's not remotely true. Webley Patriot with heavy pellets just barely reaches 40 J, as do Hatsan 125s, while Hatsan 135 goes some 10 % over that threshold. The most powerful Theobens and the Beeman Crow Magnum clocked around 45 J at best. Whiscombe JW80 put out up to 47 Joules. All of these are in .25 cal, obviously, and not makers' claims but outsider tested. Even Gamo today advertises its magnum models as putting out 45 J, but that's just hyperbole.
So, to recap, 40 J isn't even the upper limit of commercially produced springers - 45 to 47 J is.
I have a PCP, and couldn't care less to own another one. What I want is a perfectly realistic, upper end KE springer.
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No a 40J springer isn't going to happen. Physics. [...] If you really want that power, then a pcp is what you need; accuracy will be easier too.
No offense, but that's not remotely true. Webley Patriot with heavy pellets just barely reaches 40 J, as do Hatsan 125s, while Hatsan 135 goes some 10 % over that threshold. The most powerful Theobens and the Beeman Crow Magnum clocked around 45 J at best. Whiscombe JW80 put out up to 47 Joules. All of these are in .25 cal, obviously, and not makers' claims but outsider tested. Even Gamo today advertises its magnum models as putting out 45 J, but that's just hyperbole.
So, to recap, 40 J isn't even the upper limit of commercially produced springers - 45 to 47 J is.
I have a PCP, and couldn't care less to own another one. What I want is a perfectly realistic, upper end KE springer.
Oh man, i wish i had a crow mag, amazing guns
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And now i found a theoben eliminator for sale in a very recent post...hmm...idk if i want to drop a grand on a pellet gun, but it is definitely the gun i wish i got years and years ago...and i do love my magnum break barrels...
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Yeah, I would pay good money for a really good quality "ultra mag" springer, but a thousand bucks is just too much. And Whiscombes sell for up to 4000 USD, I hear...
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IMO theirs no real advantage to a .25cal spring gun over a .22cal spring gun givin the same pellet weight, once u go to a heavier pellet u might as well take advantage of it in a PCP gun to get the most out of a .25cal pellet, something that has enough to push the pellet to be of some advantage or use of the heavier pellets that's efficient ;)
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I have a Beeman Kodiac in 25. I would go the gas ram route, but I don't use it. Use PCP's now. Never did enjoy shooting the Kodiac.
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IMO theirs no real advantage to a .25cal spring gun over a .22cal spring gun givin the same pellet weight, once u go to a heavier pellet u might as well take advantage of it in a PCP gun to get the most out of a .25cal pellet, something that has enough to push the pellet to be of some advantage or use of the heavier pellets that's efficient ;)
What are those mythical .25 cal pellets that have the same weight as .22 cal pellets? The lightest commonly available .25 cal lead pellet weighs a little over 20 grains, which is almost 50 % heavier than average weight .22 cal pellets.
One can easily dig up a half-dozen quotes by experienced airgun hunters that state that the .25 cal offers a tangible edge over the .22 cal.
Here are some:
"To me the jump from .22 to .25 is decisive in grand slam result even at lower velocity."
"The .25 is interesting to me because even if that pellet is going 450 fps it is a killer."
"I would not hesitate to take a Cometa shooting in the 680 fps range with a quarter bore and take a hunting shot at 50 yds."
"The .25 cals provide a bit more reach, and if a head shot isn’t possible requiring the body to be targeted, the larger caliber is more effective."
"So why did I say I believe the .25 cal is the best all-around caliber? Because it hits with authority and creates an excellent wound channel making it a very effective caliber for taking almost all airgun appropriate game. And that broad statement is the crux of the matter, a .25 is not too much for a squirrel or a rabbit, killing quickly without ripping your quarry up. On the other hand it is perfect for bigger stuff like turkey or raccoon, and if a coyote comes up, while not the perfect option, it is still a valid one for these larger animals."
"The .25 is strong medicine on the longer range shots, carrying lead further, and being less effected by wind."
"If a springer can propel a 24 grain Field Trophy pellet at approximately 750 fps, it is getting close to the velocity one expects out of the typical .22 caliber magnum springer. Therefore the trajectory obtained is pretty close to that of a standard .22, but my-oh-my, what a difference in terminal performance! A jackrabbit hit at fifty yards will be knocked clean of its feet. A .25 pellet moving at this velocity is more than adequate for raccoon sized game out to forty yards, which I would not recommend a .22 (and definitely not a .177) be used for."
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I have one. It was professionally tuned by the previous owner. I can't remember who tuned it nor who I bought it from. its picky with pellets. Some pellets are shotgun patterns. Others are very tight. Iirc, H&N hollow points do very well. I'm not willing to sell it because I really just got it for my collection of .25 cal springers. One issue I have with it is the barrel lock-up doesn't hold the barrel locked. I guess the chisel doesn't produce enough force to hold it in place. Just bumping the gun against the sandbag when I set it in place to take a shot is enough to dislodge the barrel/breech/chisel. I haven't figured it out. I'm open to suggestions. The barrel pivot bolt is tight. There's no horizontal movement of the breech block in the forks. Its just a loose/weak chisel.
I've also had a hard time finding an acceptable sighting system for it. None of the Williams peep sights work well in it. I should try a UTG scope now that I've found a pellet that is definitely accurate at 10m. I'd rather have a peep sight system. That muzzle attachement/front sight is just weird making it hard to find a peep system for it.
Mine is English. I wouldn't touch a Turkish made one; just get a proper Hatsan instead. A 125, 130 or 135 will do.
Wonder if you could take the spring from behind the chisel and stretch it or put something behind it to shim it.
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H&N Barracuda pellets 21.1gn, but theirs not any of these pellets exactly the same weight between the 2 calibers, usually +_ 1gn weight, but any way it go's in a spring gun the .22cal has a lot more to offer, as I have stated in other posts I have a Ruger Air Mag at the present time that use to belong to another member here, the only reason I have it is because he passed away, but none the less I have owned several RAM's in .22cal and several .25cal spring guns in the past, My Beeman Kodiak in .25cal was tuned by BILLY KIZZY, it shot the 20gn FTT's @805fps accuracy was very good out to 50yds, the down side to to these rifles is their big and heavy! MY AIR ARMS PRO ELITE in .22cal was big and heavy! anyway my point is the bigger the power plants like these rifles mentioned is their hard to shoot consistently accurate and usually require heavier pellets to do so, back to the RAM, I have tried a lot of different 14 to 18gn pellets thru this rifle. My buddy has a sticker on this gun that indicates he was shooting the 21.1gn H&N Barracuda pellets, which he told me awhile back that this rifle was very accurate with these pellets, I have not tried them because I do not have any, but I have not found a lighter pellet that will shoot out of this gun! so at 21.1gns I'm in the same weight range of the .25cal in a spring gun, I'm sure if I tune it for max power I will also be in the velocity range of the other guns in this class of power, I say this because I had another RAM yrs ago in .22cal after deburring and lubing it properly it shot the 14.3gn pellets @900fps, I'm not trying to sound like a know it all on this subject but I have owned tuned and shot a lot of .25cal spring guns to tell you IMO their just not worth it over a .22cal, yes they are fun to shoot and have that WOW factor! but so does a heavy .22cal ;D
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https://www.ebay.com/c/23027199070?iid=313177671207 (https://www.ebay.com/c/23027199070?iid=313177671207)
https://www.ebay.com/p/1102637750 (https://www.ebay.com/p/1102637750)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-arms-diabolo-field-22-cal-5-51mm-16-grains-domed-500ct?p=573 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-arms-diabolo-field-22-cal-5-51mm-16-grains-domed-500ct?p=573)
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I have owned tuned and shot a lot of .25cal spring guns to tell you IMO their just not worth it over a .22cal
n=1.
I appreciate your opinion. But just upthread I quoted a bunch of guys who think a .25 cal is a much more effective (in many connotations of the word) hunting weapon than a .22 cal. Guys who have killed lots of different game with both, and compare their results.
As far as "worth" goes, I already have quality .22 cal springers, and have had more. There is no intrique to me left in how a .22 cal springer performs. Why would I get another one?
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I under stand how u feel about the .25cal, I had the same thoughts yrs ago about these rifles in this caliber, I also hunt with my air guns and not just squirrels and rabbits, I also like to shoot at distances 50yds and beyond, that's about as close as I can get to some of the ground hogs I shoot! and the best springer I have found for this use is a .22cal Diana 460mag, shooting good ole Crosman HP's or the Pointed Hunting pellets which are sub dime size group accurate @30yds from my rifle, @850fps, I have shot G-Hogs @ 75yds with this combo and some of the shots went thru both sides of the scull at that distance, a .25cal is not going to do that! Pellet offerings in 25cal are to soft unless u use the Crosman pellets and that's if they will shoot from a givin gun? and with serious power, ;)
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Mark, good info there!
Smaller pellets and bullets and even arrows penetrate deeper than bigger ones, but penetration isn't everything. I have hunted all my life, and I definitely prefer massive internal damage, broken bones etc. to swift, clean pass-throughs on small game. The recovery is much easier and more certain in the first case.
The .25 cal pellet makes a hole 32 % bigger in area than the .22 cal pellet, so it cuts those arteries and breaks them bones that much more likely. Even those tough groundhogs will drop dead in an instant with a 1/3 larger piece of lead that only manages to enter and mash up the brain, but not exit the skull. Mafia hitmen know that, too :D
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I browsed through search results for British-made Webley Patriots, as full-blown Brexit is right around the corner. I found one for sale for little money (100 GBP) at an English country sports shop. Asking if they deliver out of the country and at what cost, I was told sure - the shipping cost is 450 GBP, or 583 USD!!!
I told them that the S&H for an airgun from Spain, Germany, Holland etc. is c. 20 - 40 euros, and I can get an airgun even from the U.S. as Priority for around 80 euros, so the 500 euros is a bit steep. Thanks were thrown around and that was that.
More often than not, it's the S&H costs that make or break an airgun-related deal to me.
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I am in the process of getting a theoben eliminator and bsa lightening grt xl se from the uk, ill be paying the crazy export price to get em. But they are guns ive wanted for a very long time
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How did u buy a gun from England? according to their laws their not allowed to sell air guns directly to the U.S.! ::)
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How did u buy a gun from England? according to their laws their not allowed to sell air guns directly to the U.S.! ::)
He has to go through an exporter, which is where the crazy cost comes from. Its a process. I probably wont get my guns for months
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So, I found a nice Theoben Eliminator .25 cal from the UK, and contacted the (commercial) seller. Based on the earlier Patriot quote, I was ready to hear about huge S&H costs. Instead, they replied that they don't have the export license to ship the rifle my way, sorry.
I'm pretty sure those FAC-requiring Theobens and Patriots sit quite tight on the shelves in the UK, as reflected in the modest asking prices (this particular gun was even on special sale). But foreigners willing to pay are still shown the door, one way or another.
Dave has an expensive work-around, but that wasn't even on the table in my case.
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Its so weird that the UK can't sell airguns to the US. I've gotten airgun parts and even pellets from the UK without any issues or expensive s&h.
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Sorry to hear this Duke >:(
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Thanks, Mark. No biggie - there's plenty of airguns in the sea :D
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Well i stopped hearing from the vendor, so idk if this is still going to happen >:(
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I have not long ago myself tried to purchase a BSA Lightning SE not the XL SE or standard Lightning from a vendor who has a third party importer here in the U.S. They took my money and backed out on shipping the gun, due to restrictions on shipping air guns here to the U.S., I got my money back but I was disappointed with the out come >:(
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I have not long ago myself tried to purchase a BSA Lightning SE not the XL SE or standard Lightning from a vendor who has a third party importer here in the U.S. They took my money and backed out on shipping the gun, due to restrictions on shipping air guns here to the U.S., I got my money back but I was disappointed with the out come >:(
Why is it so difficult? I would love to get a lightening xl grt se but i think i have a better chance at getting pregnant, myself, via immaculate conception than i do buying a new one from a vendor and getting it to my door
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Any thing over 12ftlbs in an air rifle is considered a fire arm in England, so if u want a full powered air gun u have to thru getting an FAC license, almost like purchasing a fire arm here in the U.S. back ground checks and an approval to purchase, and for what ever reason and I think its an export Law there that they cannot ship any type of gun to the U.S. I know at 1 time Chambers who just sells parts was restricted to even selling FAC parts such full power spring {ETC} to the U.S. so England has some funky LAWS!!!! ::)
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Any thing over 12ftlbs in an air rifle is considered a fire arm in England, so if u want a full powered air gun u have to thru getting an FAC license, almost like purchasing a fire arm here in the U.S. back ground checks and an approval to purchase, and for what ever reason and I think its an export Law there that they cannot ship any type of gun to the U.S. I know at 1 time Chambers who just sells parts was restricted to even selling FAC parts such full power spring {ETC} to the U.S. so England has some funky LAWS!!!! ::)
That is very frustrating. At one time we used to be able to get full power break barrels from england over here...i wish i jumped on em back then, because i would definitely love to have a few of them now
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I’ve got several Kodiaks, 1 is still NIB.... 1 of the worst thing about these UK built springers are parts availability. Many parts are extremely hard to find & very costly. Neat springers but ones i rarely use
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Interesting thread. I only have one cheap Hatsan .25 Striker but I love killing cans with it. Out to 30 yards it’s very accurate with the H&N 28.4 gr BHE.
Just a thought, but could they ship one of those guns from the UK with no spring in it this disqualifying it as a fire arm ?
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Guns coming thru a distributor like GAMO U.S.A. can be sold in full power configurations, tho their made in Spain, with some U.K. parts, and IMO not worth the money! because the build quality is not the same as the 100% U.K. guns at all! not even close! believe me I have purchased a few in the past few yrs and they have too many issues! >:(
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Yeah, with Gamo, sadly, "Made in England" stamped on the breech does not a British gun make.
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Have .22 Patriot. Wouldnt ram it, youll need to saw off piece on endcap iirc
Unless its a turk Patriot, than its not worth much anyway lol
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I’ve got a couple left, 1 still NIB. Haven’t shot the .25 in years, the NIB .22 will probably be passed on to a friend