GTA
Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => 3D printing and files => Topic started by: Scotchmo on August 28, 2020, 09:14:07 PM
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I started out almost three years ago with this little Monoprice Mini Delta.
For the past two years I've been using the Anycubic Linear Plus delta printer. I made a lot of parts on that printer.
I just got my Anycubic Predator delta setup. It's big. 36" high overall. 370mm dia x 450mm high for print volume.
You can see the Mini inside the Predator for size comparison.
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nice.. you can now print complete carbine stocks. ive never had a delta even after 10 or so diffferent printers.Ill have to try one eventually.the only thing that bugs me about them is that youre forced to use the autolevel.
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nice.. you can now print complete carbine stocks. ive never had a delta even after 10 or so diffferent printers.Ill have to try one eventually.the only thing that bugs me about them is that youre forced to use the autolevel.
The autolevel on the mini is easy enough to use but ubreliable. One on the Linear Delta is complex and a little confusing but works well. The Predator autolevel is physically the same as the Linear Delta, but simpler interface and works well. Unless you change the nozzle, head, bed, etc. you won't need to run the autolevel again.
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I got a decent deal on this Predator. I now think it was from old stock. Even though it said "2020 New Arrive". I paid $430. The cheapest I've seen for others lately is $500 on eBay and $520 direct from Anycubic.
The new ones are supposed to have anodized vertical rails. Mine definitely has painted vertical rails (like the 2019 release). I would have paid more for anodized had I known. But I don't like sending things back so I'm going to live with it. I was getting some artifacts on cylindrical tests prints. I traced that problem to a bad wheel/roller. The roller had a small rough/flat spot. I took the rail apart and cleaned up the wheel with some 320 grit wet/dry paper. While I had it apart, I also sanded the inside of the rail where the wheels run, removing/smoothing the painted finish. After reassembling, that carriage runs smoother than the other two. I might smooth out the tracks in other two columns later.
My first tests were with symmetrical parts. When I finally printed a non-symmetrical part, I noticed that it was reversed (mirror image). After a couple of test prints, I saw that all prints were mirrored. I opened up the top and checked the wiring. The Z and X wires for the steppers and end-stops were reversed. That was easy enough to fix but annoying.
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oh man i hate troubleshooting 3d printers even moreso than cnc.. I had my monoprice mini select at the point i was about to toss it.. Constant giant stepovers about 1/3rd into any print.. Switched slicers, files, sd cards , etc etc.. Finally i pushed the table by hand to pull a priint and noticed a " bump" mid travel.. The little linear rails under the table were dry , no lube , and locking up.. Some lube and all has been well for over a month,
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There are a lot of Predators for sale now for $430 (same as I paid for version with painted rails), and I assume that these now have the anodized rails. They said that they would send me the anodized rails for mine, but I'm not worried about it as I decided to do an extended height upgrade to my Predator using anodized 4080 c-beams. I designed and printed new tensioners, carriages, and corner pieces to replace the originals. The original rails used a 42mm spacing while the 4080 c-beam uses a 40mm spacing. I decided to go with 3 roller carriages rather than 4 roller. It reduces the mass some and simplifies adjustment The only parts I modified was the wiring which I extended a couple of feet.
I can now print parts up the 950mm (37") high. My plan is to eventually use it to print out gun stock models in one piece.
The stock Predator is limited to about 17.9" print height. I'm printing a torso model right now at 25" tall in order to test the taller size capability. It's about a 48 hour print time at my normal 50mm/second speed. I could cut that time to about 12hours at max speed and slightly lower resolution. I typically print at 50mm/second. The tall machine will likely need some additional bracing to avoid excessive vibration when printing tall items at higher speeds.
Predator XL with TX200 shown for size reference, and compared to Mini Delta printer.
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wow , awesome.. was there any firmware mods needed , or just changing max Z in the slicer?
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wow , awesome.. was there any firmware mods needed , or just changing max Z in the slicer?
No firmware changes needed. I just changed the Z setting in the slicer from 455mm to 955mm.
The firmware/programming in the printer slows down the homing and leveling travel before it hits the stop switches. Probably to avoid a serious crash if something went wrong. So, when homing, it travels the first ~400mm quickly and then slows down until it reaches the end stop switches (now at 955mm rather than 455mm. Other than that delay, it has no affect on other functions or on actual print speed.
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makes perfect sense ..cant wait to see a full size stock printed! I think youre the first to do this on a large scale , if not its hard to find the people that have already done it (what i mean by large scale is addding more than 10-20mm z )
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It definitely opens up what’s possible. I’ve started modeling up an armada style stock for my synrod but will have to keep things ‘modular’ to be able to fit it on the ender 3.
Nice machine you got there. 👍
Dave
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The 654mm high test print completed successfully. I've got <$700 into this printer with the XL upgrade. And I can print up to 370mm diameter x 955mm high. There is a commercial grade Delta Wasp 4070 printer that can do 400mm dia x 700mm but lists for $10,000. If I wanted to print as high as my Predator XL can go, the Delta Wasp 3MT can do 1000mm dia x 1000mm but costs $23,000. I suspect that the Wasp commercial quality printers are better but I would not spend that much for my purposes.
The print quality of my Predator XL is not bad for it's size. There is some degradation/artifacts that become apparent as the print gets taller. I think stabilizing the rails will improve that. Long term, I'll probably replace the PLA corner pieces and carriages with carbon fiber PLA, and mount the frame inside a rigid enclosure which will also give me better temperature control.
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the print looks amazing , in a few ways (-;
and yes , on your old machine you haad some cross bracing up top , so id imagine anything that increases the rigidity from extrusion to extrusion will only improve the quality .. Just from the print you have done , this is a huge success IMO
questions.. layer height ?? duration of print ?? infill % ?
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Lol ... Form over Function
Love the Form of the first large print .. Function not so sure ???
Your going to have some serious fun no doubt !!
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the print looks amazing , in a few ways (-;
and yes , on your old machine you haad some cross bracing up top , so id imagine anything that increases the rigidity from extrusion to extrusion will only improve the quality .. Just from the print you have done , this is a huge success IMO
questions.. layer height ?? duration of print ?? infill % ?
.2mm layer height
52 hours (50mm/s print speed)
0% infill (0.8mm wall thickness)
Used about 650grams of plastic
I can imagine a large print with a dense infill taking multiple rolls of plastic. Fortunately, this printer has an out-of-filament indicator/pause, allowing me to change rolls mid-print.
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thats incredible , and awesome ! so a 1 kg print wont be an issue at all ( 80hrs or so
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thats incredible , and awesome ! so a 1 kg print wont be an issue at all ( 80hrs or so
That was at 50mm/sec. The max speed is 150mm/sec. I printed at max speed before I extended the rails and it was not all that bad. With some frame stiffening, it should still produce good prints at max speed.
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good point , with a larger print , there are more straightaways that are longer and can be accurately done at higher speed. I dont know the term , but in fusion cam its called feed optimization , which mekes sense (slowing down for corners, speeding up in the straights , not sure f a similar setting exists in the new cura.
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good point , with a larger print , there are more straightaways that are longer and can be accurately done at higher speed. I don't know the term , but in fusion cam its called feed optimization , which mekes sense (slowing down for corners, speeding up in the straights , not sure f a similar setting exists in the new cura.
I use a simple version of plain Cura 15.04.6 and I don't see any direct way to change the acceleration and jerk rates. Small prints with lots of direction changes (square corners) are speed limited by the default acceleration rates. Large, mostly circular prints are almost directly time related to print speed setting which I often change to suite my desires. The large test print would have been significantly faster if I had used a higher print speed.
I also have the most recent version of Ultimaker Cura (version 4.7) but rarely use it. It gives much more control if I want to optimize, but it's too complex for my needs. And the more complex Ultimaker Cura does not run so well on my older computer.
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yep, been running 15.04 for years now..I honestly feel like the newer versions added a bunch of nonsense.i DO have cura 3.5 ( some special edition) running in the shop which seems to work well and keeps things simple,, Whats niice about the delta format, you can print a fairly tall thin object like a gun stock without the sway at the top due to the table acting as an y axis. On my creality cr10 , that was a severe limitation with new ideas as id have to add huge rafts and slow the print speed after about 300mm height
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... Whats niice about the delta format, you can print a fairly tall thin object like a gun stock without the sway at the top due to the table acting as an y axis. ...
Some of the newer Cartesian printers are good like that too. The Ender 5 for instance. The coreXY configuration that they use has a bed that moves vertically only. That eliminates the XY accelerations on the printed part.
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also a very good point.. something interesting that might take off at some point for non coders
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmePlcU0TRw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmePlcU0TRw)
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As a reminder folks please remember this is a family oriented forum please refrain from posting lewd pictures.
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I printed a simple stock for my P15/Skyhawk bullpup. The stock is PLA and the Buttpad is flexible TPU. It's the first pass and it took a little grinding on the inlet, trigger guard, and hole locations. It usually takes me a couple of design/print iterations to get it right. This one is usable but it won't be the last.
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thats awesome scott.. Youre a pioneer in 3d stocks.. And yes , i always need to make minor adjsutments to a 3d part, so if its big i print the rev 1 at 10 % infill to get it over with knowing ill be printing a second 1.
the gun likely lost 2 lbs , easily.
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Scott has still not used up all the Neon green material ... dang thats LOUD !!!
pretty darn cool tho being able to print up those parts you can where FLEX don't matter ??? ... not sure i would want a stock that flexes however ?
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Scott , Pla is very rigid as far as plastics go.. It really wont flex easily.. Its like carbide , it wont flex , just cracks when the time comes.. ( its more rigid than abs , but the ultimate yeild is less ) I think youre referring to the buttpad he added, thats a flexible filament
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love the stock
love the color!!
gotta get back to my own projects.....
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Very nice be mindful PLA dose not like UV light. I had some parts I printed out warp when exposed to direct sunlight.
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Very nice be mindful PLA dose not like UV light. I had some parts I printed out warp when exposed to direct sunlight.
I don't leave guns outside so UV is not too much of an issue. But PLA melts at a fairly low temperature as far as plastics go. I normally start with PLA as it prints easily and is very forgiving as far as printer setup. I left a gun case in the hot sun, and the gun inside had a PLA scope wheel. The wheel ended up permanently deformed and out of round. I replaced it with one printed from ABS which is significantly better in the heat. I start with PLA and will use the part until it becomes an issue. Than I'll reprint it in ABS. Most PLA parts work fine for me. I have black ABS, and I ordered some spools of ABS/PLA alloy, as well as some PLA/Carbon. The PLA/Carbon will be used to replace the PLA carriages and corner parts on this printer. The ABS/PLA is to experiment with and see if it is a good alternative to straight ABS.
I have some PLA parts on my airguns that I have been using for a couple of years.
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Scott has still not used up all the Neon green material ... dang thats LOUD !!!
pretty darn cool tho being able to print up those parts you can where FLEX don't matter ??? ... not sure i would want a stock that flexes however ?
The stock is PLA and is rigid (1.6mm wall and 20% interior infill). The buttpad is TPU and is soft (0.8mm walls and 20% interior infill).
I got a great deal on the neon green PLA a while back. I have about 1.5 kg remaining.
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thats awesome scott.. Youre a pioneer in 3d stocks.. And yes , i always need to make minor adjsutments to a 3d part, so if its big i print the rev 1 at 10 % infill to get it over with knowing ill be printing a second 1.
the gun likely lost 2 lbs , easily.
This printed stock is about 1.5lbs lighter than the laminated stock.
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thats awesome scott.. Youre a pioneer in 3d stocks.. And yes , i always need to make minor adjsutments to a 3d part, so if its big i print the rev 1 at 10 % infill to get it over with knowing ill be printing a second 1.
the gun likely lost 2 lbs , easily.
This printed stock is about 1.5lbs lighter than the laminated stock.
thats really good.. whats the Z height on the green part of the stock ?/ just curious
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thats awesome scott.. Youre a pioneer in 3d stocks.. And yes , i always need to make minor adjsutments to a 3d part, so if its big i print the rev 1 at 10 % infill to get it over with knowing ill be printing a second 1.
the gun likely lost 2 lbs , easily.
This printed stock is about 1.5lbs lighter than the laminated stock.
thats really good.. whats the Z height on the green part of the stock ?/ just curious
487.3mm
The extended rails that I installed allow me to go up to 950mm high.
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21 hrs not too shaabby for a drop in stock. very cool
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21 hrs not too shaabby for a drop in stock. very cool
That 21 hours was at 50mm/s. That's my normal default speed that I use for the slicer. I was not sure how it would do with the tall skinny stock. I think it could run OK at a higher speed. It's usually better to run it slower. I often use the control panel on the printer to increase/decrease the speed after the print starts. For TPU, I set the front panel to 50% on my smaller Delta printer with the longer Bowden tube.
I just got a set of hardened steel nozzles. I bought them mostly to use with PLA/metal and PLA/Carbon. Sizes: 0.4, 0.6, 0.8, 1.0, 1.2, 1.5mm.
I like to use either 25% to 75% of nozzle diameter for the layer height. Up until now, I have used only a 0.4mm brass nozzle. I often use the 0.4mm nozzle and 0.1mm layers for small parts. 0.2mm layers seem fine for others. I'll be experimenting with the 0.6mm nozzle and 0.3mm layer heights when I make the new printer parts in PLA/Carbon. I will lose some of the smaller details with the increased layer height.
It's possible to cut that 21 hours down to a several hours if I ran at higher speeds and was OK with a larger nozzle diameter and increased layer height.
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yep/. Ive never run a nozzle above .4 , but ive seen printers on youtube running as high as 1 mm layer height , printing full size chairs and so on. I think the finish on that stock is really good , so a .3 layer height might also look good. Especiaally if your printing something the sie of a marauder stock.
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I'd like to try printing a stock that was more traditional like for a Marauder. If someone has a model of a more traditional airgun stock, and they are willing to share the model, I'll print them a stock for no charge (except for the cost of plastic). I have a roll of brown PLA coming for that purpose, but could do any color.
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I'd like to try printing a stock that was more traditional like for a Marauder. If someone has a model of a more traditional airgun stock, and they are willing to share the model, I'll print them a stock for no charge (except for the cost of plastic). I have a roll of brown PLA coming for that purpose, but could do any color.
Someone did scan and post a file if a entire stock not long ago. It's no mrod stock but the scan is quite nice.
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Really cool print, just one thought on material. All composites are a give and take, you lose one attribute to gain another. 3d printing is no different, addition of carbon in filament can increase stiffness (if you get carbon fiber not the cheap carbon dust stuff) with a loss in layer adhesion. Pla and petg are not good carriers for carbon fiber, they become brittle and will have poor layer adhesion. The pla carbon and petg carbon filaments are just a marketing ruse. The materials will perform better in every way on their own without the addition of carbon.
That being said some materials make for a decent pairing with carbon fiber filaments, nylon and pc/pc blends make a pretty decent composite. A majority of my prints are using carbon nylon composites and have turned out quite well. Just a tip the nylon x is the best out there for functional parts, I have tried them all. Good luck, it's a fun hobby on its own
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my take on different materials is a simple equation
Hassle X potential gain / PLA = and thats why pla fits the bill for most prints.. Most materials being sold , the gain is fairly small versus the hassle of printing with them. I have seen some carbon fiber based stuff that was very impressive , but a stock on a pcp sees no stress or imact.. ( unlike a pumper, springer etc
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Really cool print, just one thought on material. All composites are a give and take, you lose one attribute to gain another. 3d printing is no different, addition of carbon in filament can increase stiffness (if you get carbon fiber not the cheap carbon dust stuff) with a loss in layer adhesion. Pla and petg are not good carriers for carbon fiber, they become brittle and will have poor layer adhesion. The pla carbon and petg carbon filaments are just a marketing ruse. The materials will perform better in every way on their own without the addition of carbon.
That being said some materials make for a decent pairing with carbon fiber filaments, nylon and pc/pc blends make a pretty decent composite. A majority of my prints are using carbon nylon composites and have turned out quite well. Just a tip the nylon x is the best out there for functional parts, I have tried them all. Good luck, it's a fun hobby on its own
I've been fiddling with settings for the PLA/carbon using the 0.6mm hardened steel nozzle. After some trial and error, I'm getting decent looking parts but very poor layer-to-layer adhesion. I'm running another part right now with the print temp at 230c and turned off the part cooling fan. After all this trouble, it makes me appreciate PLA even more. I have gotten good parts using ABS filament. What do you think about a PLA/ABS composite?
Edit: The layers stuck together much better, but the surface was rough looking and the part dislodged from the plate about 1/3 of the way through. I'm going to try some straight ABS next for the printer carriages.
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It's been a while since I used straight ABS. I did not like it. Except for ABS having better temperature resistance, I prefer PLA. I then tried the PLA-F (PLA/ABS blend). The PLA-F prints almost as good as the PLA but feels less stiff. For the printer parts, I want stiff. OK, back to PLA. I'm running 3 roller PLA carriages right now with PLA effectors. I'm going to print some 4 roller PLA carriages that use the original Predator aluminum effectors. Theses carriages will be a little heaver and there will be two rollers each to adjust, but they should be more stable.
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Really cool print, just one thought on material. All composites are a give and take, you lose one attribute to gain another. 3d printing is no different, addition of carbon in filament can increase stiffness (if you get carbon fiber not the cheap carbon dust stuff) with a loss in layer adhesion. Pla and petg are not good carriers for carbon fiber, they become brittle and will have poor layer adhesion. The pla carbon and petg carbon filaments are just a marketing ruse. The materials will perform better in every way on their own without the addition of carbon.
That being said some materials make for a decent pairing with carbon fiber filaments, nylon and pc/pc blends make a pretty decent composite. A majority of my prints are using carbon nylon composites and have turned out quite well. Just a tip the nylon x is the best out there for functional parts, I have tried them all. Good luck, it's a fun hobby on its own
I've been fiddling with settings for the PLA/carbon using the 0.6mm hardened steel nozzle. After some trial and error, I'm getting decent looking parts but very poor layer-to-layer adhesion. I'm running another part right now with the print temp at 230c and turned off the part cooling fan. After all this trouble, it makes me appreciate PLA even more. I have gotten good parts using ABS filament. What do you think about a PLA/ABS composite?
Edit: The layers stuck together much better, but the surface was rough looking and the part dislodged from the plate about 1/3 of the way through. I'm going to try some straight ABS next for the printer carriages.
I think you will have to get away from pla all together. Kind of not worthy when you get to this point because it is a really good plastic, with good mechanical properties and piece of cake printing. It just doesn't do well with uv or heat. I have no experience with delta printers, but looking at the design it appears like you will be limited to 250degree and under temperatures do to the bowden tube set up. I would suggest one of two things, either try petg or annealing the pla in a bed of crushed salt. There will be no free lunches, your going to have to live with flex or dealing with some amount of warping do to the length of print.
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Another thought, I have 3d printed breaches before. I was able to do it semi successfuly by putting threaded rod linearly down in the sides and using aluminum inserts for the pressurized sections. You may be able to come up with something along those lines to add stability to the stock. Good luck
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Scott, seems like im the only one who thinks the stock doesnt flex.. I CANT see where it would flex?? maybe i missed something ?
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It won't flex with pla, but it will deteriorate over time with uv exposure and heat. It will flex with abs. If he wants a stock that will last he will have to get away from pla, doing that will create other challenges. If he is fine just printing another stock in pla when his warps/breaks then ignore the suggestions I made.
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I used standard 4080 v-slot c-beams to make my extended height Predator. That required new corner brackets. The first set was made of PLA and worked good but I wanted more stiffness. I did not have have much luck with the PLA/Carbon composite filament so I went another route for making the brackets more rigid. My friend John Bergquist has worked out his lost PLA investment casting process. I printed some thin wall PLA brackets with about 1.5% allowance for shrinkage. I think 1% allowance might be better in this case but it will depend on your materials and tolerances. John cast the brackets for me in aluminum alloy. I finished and painted the brackets. I'll install them on the printer tomorrow.
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those look perfect , hes obviously an expert
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those look perfect , hes obviously an expert
There are visible defects in the brackets. Though not perfect, they seem structurally sound.
We tried doing some Marauder valve bodies and they almost worked. The casting process that he uses has micro-porosity. At high pressures, they would leak. We tried sealing them which helped up to about 500psi but at 1000+ psi, they leaked a lot. He did cast scope rings and scope wheels. A breech might work since there is not much area to leak and it does not need to retain pressure over time.