GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: oldpro on August 11, 2020, 03:38:09 PM
-
Cant find price or spec sheet for TJ liners, does anyone have it or a link?
-
Prices may be off a bit, just email what you want and they will quote or just send you a Quickbooks invoice...
(https://i.imgur.com/tCM21kc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GKiAsYF.jpg)
-
The .22 air barrel they have listed is very tight at .214 groove diameter and .208 lands (bore) diameter.
Isn't there also a .22 air barrel with .217 groove diameter and .213 lands (bore) diameter?
-
Thank You Mike!!!
-
Yes, that "standard" .22 bore TJ's barrel is quite a fast twist, however, at 16"....
Bob
-
Going to build a .177 slug gun!
-
Thank You Mike!!!
You're welcome Travis. I normally keep my communication with Todd very short and to the point. I simply ask for a price shipped for xx inches of xx barrel. He sends a Quickbooks invoice and I arrange payment. This seems to work very well for him and I've received several barrels in the same week by keeping things simple.
Payment is via bank draft so that is a hit awkward at first....
Bob, I've had such good luck with TJ's barrels in 257 1:14, .300 1:26, .and 357 1:26 that I really wanted to try one for my 22 pellet shooter(s). But based on all of my reading it just doesnt appear they offer a good solution for a .22 pellet shooter. For now I'm going to test by using s Crosman Fortitude barre and see how they works. I would much rather have one of TJ's hammer forged barrels if only due to stiffness/toughness.
-
Current pellet barrels are approaching twist rates of 100 calibers (the 22" in .25 cal and 26" in .30 cal are 87-88 calibers), so I agree TJ's does not currently have what I would expect to be a great pellet shooter.... I wish they had something in the 20-22" twist range.... I know that some of the benchrest shooters are experimenting with even slower twist rates to reduce spiralling at 100 yards....
Bob
-
Current pellet barrels are approaching twist rates of 100 calibers (the 22" in .25 cal and 26" in .30 cal are 87-88 calibers), so I agree TJ's does not currently have what I would expect to be a great pellet shooter.... I wish they had something in the 20-22" twist range.... I know that some of the benchrest shooters are experimenting with even slower twist rates to reduce spiralling at 100 yards....
Bob
On that note .... When I was at the NEVADA State FT championship a few months back, we had a gentleman from up in Oregon who is a Bench Rest shooter and was using one of his CUSTOM .177 barrels on his .177 FT rig.
During practice we were shooting along side one another at 50 yards seeing how well his .177 shot against my .20 .... Got my azz handed to me watching him stack pellet after pellet into an easy 1/2" or less.
This lead to me working him for info on what the barrel was ? Came to find out a LW special production 1-36" twist !! Shooting JSB 10.3's @ 910 fps IIRC
Was shocked and in seeing it first hand with my own eyes made me a believer that barrels we use are old school and outdated twist rates for power above 12 FPE which is where air guns had been for many decades !! ( Actually most > 12fpe )
PS. he won the match and set high score too.
-
for now I guess the FX liners are the better readily available solution.....
If I look at it from a business perspective, I assume .177 and .22 pellet shooters make up such a small portion of Todd and Mike's business that it hasn't been worth further investment.
Scott---cool story thank you for sharing.
-
I've been say'n. Ain't I been Say'n? Hello!!! Of course I was told by the guru that it wasn't so. Well, Its so!!! Now I'm testing the latest slug Heavy FX Superior and it is a very fast 1-16 twist. GRRRRR~!!!. My 1-20 Redman's liner will out shoot it all day, every day. a little disappointed but knew it was going to be an issue as soon as I slugged it at .213 choke with a 1-16 twist. I mean, I didn't division shooting a .213 slug. That is NOT a .22 or anywhere near it. Not by a long shot!!!
Add the fact that the Redmans is a .223 and gives much more surface to push against, it is giving much higher fpe with the near same air use and exactly same pressure. Not impressed with the .213/ or .218 with the choke removed so far.
FX before shipping, 109 bucks Redman, before shipping, 35 bucks, and almost the exact od so will work in the FX system just fine.
Knife
-
Yes, that "standard" .22 bore TJ's barrel is quite a fast twist, however, at 16"....
Bob
.217 groove diameter with 1 in 16" twist would be good for higher power slug or boat tail slug set-ups. (I am assuming the .217 groove with .213 lands 1 in 16" twist TJ's barrel (not shown on the price list) is what JSAR uses for the Raptor .22 slug barrel)
But yeah for JSB 18.13 (which has .217 head diameter*) something slower would be interesting.
Ideally the slower the twist the better assuming there isn't any issue with gases upsetting the pellet at muzzle.
With that noted, I wonder how TJ's .177 1 in 22" twist would do with pellets? At 12 FPE (for field target) ? At 20 FPE (for field target)? ( 1 in 22" for .177 is proportional to 1 in 27" for .217)
* Unlike JSB Monster redesigned which has .219 head diameter. (The larger head diameter of the JSB Monster Redesigned is why FX made STX pellet liner B. STX pellet liner A is for JSB pellets with smaller head diameter like the 18.13 grain.)
-
NO Sir, it isn't. I Have tested the 1-16 anywhere from 800 fps all the way to 1180 fps and the 1-20 wins every time. EVERY TIME. Seems you are ignoring everything posted and tested by others.
I'm sorry, but theory is theory. Actual testing is the ONLY way to confirm data. Where is the palm slap to the forehead when you need it?
Get your nose out of the calculators and do some shooting for yourself.
Knife
-
NO Sir, it isn't. I Have tested the 1-16 anywhere from 800 fps all the way to 1180 fps and the 1-20 wins every time. EVERY TIME.
I'm sorry, but theory is theory. Actual testing is the ONLY way to confirm data. Where is the palm slap to the forehead when you need it?
Get your nose out of the calculators and do some shooting for yourself.
Knife
What range are you shooting at?
The reason I ask is because a bullet can be accurate at short range with a slow twist but then groups will open up as range increases.
-
I'm sorry, but theory is theory. Actual testing is the ONLY way to confirm data.
+1
-
Knifemaker,
This is the bullet (NOE .22LR mold) you used to compare Redman's 1 in 20" twist .223 to FX Superior Heavy 1 in 16" twist .218 (choke removed) right?
(https://noebulletmolds.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/223-38-RN_PB_CC1_Sketch.jpg)
(obviously sized down to .218 when used in the FX barrel)
P.S. One thing to consider is that when sizing down to .218 the parallel bearing surface will increase compared to when it is at the full .223 diameter.
-
Test to 200 yards. I have suggested to FX to make a loiner at .233 for the many casters. More base surface area for higher fpe. we'll see.
the point that you are missing is that most molds available are .224 and .225. The fx liner is for pellet Dia's yet is marketed as a heavy slug liner. HUH?
So yes, they have to be sized down. This is the point of the matter.
it would be very helpful if you would read the thread before commenting on what has been fully covered as if has not been pointed out.
Knife
-
Test to 200 yards. I have suggested to FX to make a loiner at .233 for the many casters. More base surface area for higher fpe. we'll see.
the point that you are missing is that most molds available are .224 and .225. The fx liner is for pellet Dia's yet is marketed as a heavy slug liner. HUH?
So yes, they have to be sized down. This is the point of the matter.
it would be very helpful if you would read the thread before commenting on what has been fully covered as if has not been pointed out.
Knife
Oop's, my bad, it was all covered in the FX SuperiourSlug Liner thread.
-
Test to 200 yards. I have suggested to FX to make a loiner at .233 for the many casters. More base surface area for higher fpe. we'll see.
the point that you are missing is that most molds available are .224 and .225. The fx liner is for pellet Dia's yet is marketed as a heavy slug liner. HUH?
So yes, they have to be sized down. This is the point of the matter.
it would be very helpful if you would read the thread before commenting on what has been fully covered as if has not been pointed out.
Knife
Oop's, my bad, it was all covered in the FX SuperiourSlug Liner thread.
I never saw 200 yards mentioned in the FX Superior Slug liner thread:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=176121.msg156003572#msg156003572 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=176121.msg156003572#msg156003572)
I have already stated that in testing, both myself and others that the 1-16 does NOT perform batter. Exactly the opposite results have been found. Have you read any of this thread?
Looking through this thread I only see short range testing. (and the choke wasn't even removed until reply #37)
It is common knowledge that using a slow twist rate can work (and even be more accurate) for short range......but groups can open up as range increases.
I don't think there are a lot of people shooting a 38 grain .22LR bullet that would want to be strictly limited to short range.....so checking at long range makes sense.
Highest range mentioned in the FX Superior Slug liner thread was 80 yards.
If you are getting good groups at 200 yards with a 38 grain .22LR bullet (NOE CC1) using 1 in 20" twist .223 rimfire liner then I just have to attribute that to you having a super good barrel (reason: even for 50 yard bench rest .22LR shooters are only using 1 in 16.5" or 1 in 17" twist).
P.S. There was a .22 LR benchrest rifle called Suhl 150 that came in either 1 in 16.5" twist or 1 in 19" twist....the 1 in 19" twist was reported to be bad at long range and finicky with temperature for short range. I think if 1 in 19" twist worked well (on average) for .22LR bullets we would see it being used today...but it isn't.
NOTE: If shooting slower than .22LR match rimfire speeds Kolbe twist says rifling rate can be relaxed, but the twist reduction is 2.5" at most (for all practical purposes). For 950 FPS maybe 2" less twist.
-
Neither of these threads mention long range testing with NOE 38 grain and Redman's 1 in 20" twist .223 liner either:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=165121.msg155843752#msg155843752 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=165121.msg155843752#msg155843752)
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=159220.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=159220.0)
First thread mentions 60 yard testing here---> https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=165121.msg155843752#msg155843752 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=165121.msg155843752#msg155843752)
And the second thread mentions 80 yard testing here---> https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=159220.msg155912403#msg155912403 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=159220.msg155912403#msg155912403) (Accuracy is 1" at 80 yards with the worst slug and 1/2" with the best two slugs)
Still looking though.....
(Am very interested to see the 200 yard testing)
-
Lets say that someone gets a 1 in 20" twist barrel liner (either the Redman's .223 or the TJ's .222) and they found out that even at 900 FPS they don't have good accuracy with NOE 38 grain CC1 at 200 yards.
Then what?
Begin to the process of decking of NOE 38 grain CC1? Then test.....if still inaccurate then deck NOE CC1 further.
(https://noebulletmolds.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/223-38-RN_PB_CC1_Sketch.jpg)
P.S. With NOE 38 grain CC1 being a .22LR bullet its roundnose has a flat drag curve up to around 1000 FPS (see RA4 in chart below):
https://airgunguild.com/ask-bob/what-is-the-ballistics-coefficient/ (https://airgunguild.com/ask-bob/what-is-the-ballistics-coefficient/)
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Ballistics/Drag%20Coefficients%20Including%20ChairGun_zpskfyhpxvr.jpg)
So it really does make sense to shoot (and optimize) for at least 1050 FPS.
-
If you could eve actually hold one in your hands, you would soon realise it is a spire point. It has a very tiny point I will not eve use in on vermin as it is a pin ^#(*%, with animals running off to die slowly. I may send one of the molds out ot HP mold services for hp work. It is very accurate.
I know of no .22 rf round that has such a finely tapered point. None. So run the calculations as a Spire Point. ;) Not that sub-sonic makes much difference. LOL
-
I got TJ’s price lists for Airgun and fire arm barrels (https://airgunguild.com/the-garage/tjs-barrel-liners-current-price-list-and-carbon-fiber-tube-source/msg25531/#msg25531) from the source.
-
If you could eve actually hold one in your hands, you would soon realise it is a spire point.
I did find pictures of it here:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174560.msg155972501#msg155972501 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174560.msg155972501#msg155972501)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=174560.0;attach=318561;image)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=174560.0;attach=318568;image)
(It does look identical to the picture NOE uses for 38 grain CC1)
P.S. This bullet is a clone of the 38 grain mold from the .22LR reloader kit:
http://22lrreloader.com/design-details/ (http://22lrreloader.com/design-details/)
(http://22lrreloader.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/22-lr-reloader-bullet-molds.png)
Scotchmo casted some up and here are some pictures:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=159220.msg155899965#msg155899965 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=159220.msg155899965#msg155899965)
(http://www.scotthull.us/photos/Misc/22LR-SLUG-02.JPG)
(http://www.scotthull.us/photos/Misc/22LR-SLUG-03.JPG)
SIDE NOTE: 80 yard testing for your NOE 38 grain CC1 mentioned here--> https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174560.msg155972493#msg155972493 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174560.msg155972493#msg155972493)
-
I know of no .22 rf round that has such a finely tapered point. None.
There is a lot that look like NOE CC1.
In fact, here is the picture for which the RA4 drag model (shown in reply #20) is based on:
https://airgunguild.com/ask-bob/what-is-the-ballistics-coefficient/ (https://airgunguild.com/ask-bob/what-is-the-ballistics-coefficient/)
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Ballistics/ra4a_zpsjpnjy3tp.jpg)
-
RWS bullet shape:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.creedmoorsports.com/images/popup/RWS2134187-ROUND.png)
(https://www.krale.shop/media/catalog/product/cache/11/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/w/rws-lrn-5.56-mm-41.5-grain-200-stuks.jpg)
Lyman 225438:
(https://op1.0ps.us/365-240-ffffff/opplanet-lyman-rifle-bullet-mould-22-caliber-225438-2660438.jpg)
-
The ogive of the cci is long and quickly tapered. Not like shown above. It is much longer than a .22 long rifle. Shall I pull one of the factory .22 lr's and place it side by side so you can see the difference? this is gettinIf you could eve actually hold one in your hands, you would soon realise it is a spire point.
I did find pictures of it here:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174560.msg155972501#msg155972501 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174560.msg155972501#msg155972501)
Now show me a pic of a factory .22 slug with such a strong taper and tiny point. I'm tired of splitting hair with you.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=174560.0;attach=318561;image)
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=174560.0;attach=318568;image)
(It does look identical to the picture NOE uses for 38 grain CC1)
P.S. This bullet is a clone of the 38 grain mold from the .22LR reloader kit:
http://22lrreloader.com/design-details/ (http://22lrreloader.com/design-details/)
(http://22lrreloader.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/22-lr-reloader-bullet-molds.png)
Scotchmo casted some up and here are some pictures:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=159220.msg155899965#msg155899965 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=159220.msg155899965#msg155899965)
(http://www.scotthull.us/photos/Misc/22LR-SLUG-02.JPG)
(http://www.scotthull.us/photos/Misc/22LR-SLUG-03.JPG)
SIDE NOTE: 80 yard testing for your NOE 38 grain CC1 mentioned here--> https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174560.msg155972493#msg155972493 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=174560.msg155972493#msg155972493)
g old fast!
-
Notice the difference in the angle of the taper. The difference is even much more pronounced if the slug had not been sized down from .224 to .216 which greatly shortened the ogive. if you can see it, wonderful. If not, I agree to disagree. I'm thru with it.
Hard to believe you have argued this moot point on two different threads now. I have NO Idea why you hi-jacked this thread.
-
Notice the difference in the angle of the taper.
The ogive radius of the two bullets you posted is about the same.
But one bullet (the NOE CC1) is longer and roundnose and the other bullet is shorter because it is a flatnose (not a roundnose).
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=176856.0;attach=325795;image)
And here is the diagram showing the ogive radius of the HP NOE CC1 as 3.47:
(https://noebulletmolds.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/223-38-HP_PB_CC1_Sketch.jpg)
that is very close to the RA4 ogive radius of 4:
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Ballistics/ra4a_zpsjpnjy3tp.jpg)
-
Notice the difference in the angle of the taper. The difference is even much more pronounced if the slug had not been sized down from .224 to .216 which greatly shortened the ogive. if you can see it, wonderful. If not, I agree to disagree. I'm thru with it.
The ogive radius of the two bullets you posted is about the same.
But one bullet (the NOE CC1) is longer and roundnose and the other bullet is shorter because it is a flatnose (not a roundnose).
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=176856.0;attach=325795;image)
I would disagree with "about the same." I see a significant difference in the two.
Underpressure, In case you are unaware, it is obvious that you are going out of your way to give Mike a hard time here. I normally don't get involved in such, but I would really ask that you slightly alter your approach to online interaction by a few degrees. Your current path is not very productive.
We can all contribute here and in the past I've seen your posts bring value to this community. However the current back and forth of thinly veiled attempts at discrediting Mike is not one of those times.
-
Notice the difference in the angle of the taper. The difference is even much more pronounced if the slug had not been sized down from .224 to .216 which greatly shortened the ogive. if you can see it, wonderful. If not, I agree to disagree. I'm thru with it.
The ogive radius of the two bullets you posted is about the same.
But one bullet (the NOE CC1) is longer and roundnose and the other bullet is shorter because it is a flatnose (not a roundnose).
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=176856.0;attach=325795;image)
I would disagree with "about the same." I see a significant difference in the two.
There is certainly not a significant difference in ogive radius.
The ogive radius on the NOE CC1 becomes smaller as it approaches the nose.....but comparing the same length of nose it is very similar. (see charts I posted in reply #28)
Diagram showing the ogive radius of the NOE CC1 HP as 3.47:
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/224/223-38-rn-cc1/223-38-rn-cc1-4-cavity-hb-w-hp (https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/224/223-38-rn-cc1/223-38-rn-cc1-4-cavity-hb-w-hp)
(https://noebulletmolds.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/223-38-HP_PB_CC1_Sketch.jpg)
Drag model RA4, the form factor reference for a .22LR bullet shows ogive radius of 4:
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Ballistics/ra4a_zpsjpnjy3tp.jpg)
In any event, I see a lot of bold claims made in reply #12 (which was written as reponse to my post in reply #11 to resterne) but I have see no evidence that back up the claims made in reply #12 or reply #16. I have been very nice in this thread trying to get to the bottom of this.
Testing to 80 yards (by one person with one barrel liner) is the only evidence I have seen so far, but that is not grounds for making bold claims about 1 in 20" beating 1 in 16" twist when it comes to .22LR bullets. It ignores long distance shooting and the mounds of evidence we see in the .22LR world. We are, after all, discussing a true .22LR bullet being shot from a .22LR barrel liner (the only difference is one uses air for propellent and the other uses powder. Velocity is the same....or at least should be the same. Lower velocity wastes the potential of the RA4 form factor aerodynamics)
-
Most all modern .22lr bullets look like the RWS bullet and the one Mike photoed. That NOE bullet is not the same, different nose shape, less bands and no cup base.
-
Most all modern .22lr bullets look like the RWS bullet and the one Mike photoed.
Most .22LR bullets are not flat nose like the one Knifemaker and you posted:
Even looking at Eley I see 8 round nose bullets and only 3 flat nose:
https://www.eleyammunition.com/rifle-ammunition-22lr/ (https://www.eleyammunition.com/rifle-ammunition-22lr/)
P.S. The Lyman 225438 you posted is not a .22LR bullet.
-
Most all modern .22lr bullets look like the RWS bullet and the one Mike photoed.
Most .22LR bullets are not flat nose like the one Knifemaker and you posted:
Even looking at Eley I see 8 round nose bullets and only 3 flat nose:
https://www.eleyammunition.com/rifle-ammunition-22lr/ (https://www.eleyammunition.com/rifle-ammunition-22lr/)
P.S. The Lyman 225438 you posted is not a .22LR bullet.
Narrated pictures are nice but I actually have some bricks of Eley club here and the shape is exactly the same as RWS. 225438 is not .222 in size but there are sizing dies for that and it matches .22lr shape. Get off the computer, grab some .22lr ammo and see yourself.
-
That NOE bullet is not the same, different nose shape, less bands and no cup base.
It might be different, but it is a genuine .22LR bullet.
As I pointed out earlier in the thread NOE 38 grain CC1 is a clone of the 38 grain mold from the .22LR reloader kit shown below:
https://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.myshopify.com/products/22-reloader-kit
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0824/4621/products/cast_1024x1024.JPG?v=1475862954)
That means it has been designed and optimized for 1 in 16" twist barrel.
-
Most all modern .22lr bullets look like the RWS bullet and the one Mike photoed.
Most .22LR bullets are not flat nose like the one Knifemaker and you posted:
Even looking at Eley I see 8 round nose bullets and only 3 flat nose:
https://www.eleyammunition.com/rifle-ammunition-22lr/ (https://www.eleyammunition.com/rifle-ammunition-22lr/)
P.S. The Lyman 225438 you posted is not a .22LR bullet.
225438 is not .222 in size but there are sizing dies for that and it matches .22lr shape. Get off the computer, grab some .22lr ammo and see yourself.
225438 is for a .22 Hornet.
Yes, a person could size down and the overall length bullet is about right.....but even if the heel were the right diameter is still way too short. That means when installed in a .22LR case the OAL of the catridge will be too long.
It is not a .22LR bullet.
The NOE 38 grain CC1, on the other hand, is a .22LR bullet.
-
Most all modern .22lr bullets look like the RWS bullet and the one Mike photoed.
Most .22LR bullets are not flat nose like the one Knifemaker and you posted:
Even looking at Eley I see 8 round nose bullets and only 3 flat nose:
https://www.eleyammunition.com/rifle-ammunition-22lr/ (https://www.eleyammunition.com/rifle-ammunition-22lr/)
P.S. The Lyman 225438 you posted is not a .22LR bullet.
Narrated pictures are nice but I actually have some bricks of Eley club here and the shape is exactly the same as RWS.
If you say so, but the pictures say it is roundnose:
(https://eley.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/tenex-pistol-technical-banner.png)
And the box even says it is round nose (with picture of it being roundnose next to it):
(https://www.eleyammunition.com/wp-content/uploads/ELEY-club-22lr-ammunition.jpg)
And here is picture of the real thing:
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimage.sportsmansguide.com%2Fadimgs%2Fl%2F2%2F296654i2_ts.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
It is round nose.
-
And yet in real life it's a really good match ;D
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50237700696_12cb8c26de_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jxkmao)225438 (https://flic.kr/p/2jxkmao) by abbababbaccc (https://www.flickr.com/photos/11843711@N08/), on Flickr
-
(https://www.krale.shop/media/catalog/product/cache/11/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/r/w/rws-lrn-5.56-mm-41.5-grain-200-stuks.jpg)
According to rsterne those RWS 41.4 grain 5.7mm bullets (from Krale--> https://www.krale.shop/en/airgun-pellets-rws-5-7-mm-41-4-grain/ (https://www.krale.shop/en/airgun-pellets-rws-5-7-mm-41-4-grain/)) actually like 1 in 14" or 1 in 15" twist rather than 1 in 16" for 100M (109.3 yards):
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=176555.msg155997750#msg155997750 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=176555.msg155997750#msg155997750)
You are correct, they are too large for typical airgun barrels.... The guys in Europe are running 14-15" twist .224" barrels for that bullet.... It can work in a 16", but they seem to prefer slightly faster.... That bullet is 0.224" diameter, slightly larger than the RWS .22 rimfire bullets (likely why it is heavier)....
Bob
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=176555.msg155997633#msg155997633 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=176555.msg155997633#msg155997633)
They shoot like this in a good rifle....
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/224%20Long%20Range%20PCP/.highres/17mm_at100M_DrummenSinner223.jpg) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/rsterne/a/d1bff802-f964-4c41-a782-96dec323f3cf/p/1dc37b11-fb75-48c2-bb2b-2c09f665c81a)
That target was shot in Europe, at 100M, outside, tethered.... Group size is 17mm (0.67")....
-
The TJ didnt shoot Nicks ammo well but the LW standard choked is AWESOME!!!!
-
Would be good to see 200 yard testing for the 1 in 20" twist Redman's rimfire liner.
-
The Lyman 225438 is NOT a .22 rimfire bullet.... It is intended for a gas check, not heeled to fit inside a rimfire case.... Heeled bullets (like the NOE 225-38-RN-CC1 or the RWS and Eley bullets have a MUCH longer stub to fit inside the rimfire case, and it is smaller in diameter as well.... 0.199" instead of 0.211" like the GC stub on a centerfire bullet....
Bob
-
The Lyman 225438 is NOT a .22 rimfire bullet.... It is intended for a gas check, not heeled to fit inside a rimfire case.... Heeled bullets (like the NOE 225-38-RN-CC1 or the RWS and Eley bullets have a MUCH longer stub to fit inside the rimfire case, and it is smaller in diameter as well.... 0.199" instead of 0.211" like the GC stub on a centerfire bullet....
Bob
For airgun use it's closest mold to .22lr bullet that we have in shape. 0.005" longer, 0.003" bigger in diameter and a bit different shank.
That said there are better .22x bullets out there so why copy .22lr when you can do better?
-
For the TJ's 1 in 20" .222 barrel the Neilsen 36 grain .223 (after sizing, of course) would be interesting. Same with Redman's 1 in 20" twist. Reason: the Neilsen 36 grain .223 is only .388" long and it is flatbase with smaller than normal meplat for an HP.
So perhaps that might be the beginning of an upgrade program for Huben K1......provided 1 in 20" also works at long range and in lower temps*. (Remember Huben K1 has a short magazine.....so the .223 bullets it uses are at most .428" long)
Other improvements Huben K1 needs is the regulator. Matt Duber has shown even in .22 caliber the stock regulator has too low of a refresh rate---> https://youtu.be/i807-jyVF70?t=318
Then there is the issue of getting Huben K1 filled to 350 bar (5076 PSI). (Cheap compressors like Tuxing exist that claim to be able to go to 400 bar....but then there still appears to be a widespread problem with people using non HP compressor oils like Royal Purple compressor oil in cheap chinese 2 stroke compressors......or even worse than Royal Purple compressor oil things like motor oil, ATF or ISO 46 hydraulic oil in cheap chinese compressors.)
*lowering temperature increases twist rate requirements.