GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: WilsonLR on August 10, 2020, 03:09:45 PM
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Yeah, so I love the gun but it's consistently shooting right. See attached. Yellow arrows mark aim points. Everything was at 10 yards and 90 degrees in the shade. I shot JSB MATCH EXACT JUMBO HEAVY 18.13g and JSB MATCH EXACT JUMBO 15.89.
The buckhorn rear sight only adjusts for elevation so I'm stuck for L/R correction. I checked for cant. Maybe it's the hard trigger on the 2260. Maybe it's me. I don't know and am not sure what to do next. After the first two groups, I decided to aim at points to the left and it put the shots near the original bull but eventually, this thing has to dispatch Iguanas.
Second problem is my old eyes. Need glasses to focus on front sight. Forget about rear sight. Saw a great but boring video on the history of sights where it made mention of how the military designed iron sights around the capable vision of 20 year olds. So as much as I like doing things the old fashioned way, it looks like I'm into adding optics. Not many choices in red dots for 11mm dovetails but I did find a couple REFLEX designs at $50 and there's always a Bugbuster at $110. But I wonder if a red dot will really solve the problem of not being able to focus on near things. What about rear peep with glasses?
What do you recommend?
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Try a rear aperature sight that you can adjust windage...
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Try a rear aperature sight that you can adjust windage...
Right. A peep sight. There's this one for $60 but says "Can be used on Daisy Match Grade Avanti models 853 and 953 target rifles but ONLY if you use a globe front sight." My front sight has no attachment mechanism I can see. Not sure what can replace it and that puts the dollars closer to a scope. Williams has an adjustable peep for a dovetail mount that's around $40 ... requires tools to adjust.
So for the same ballpark dollars, which is better for old eyes?
peep sight
reflex red dot
tube red dot
Oh screw it all, BugBuster Scope?
TIA
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If you are near sighted a rear peep sight should work well. Because of an optical phenomenon called the Camera Obscura effect the rear aperature acts as a lens and you can actually correct for near sightedness by adjusting the focal distance from the aperature to your eye. I find the large (3 minute or more) red dots to be too imprecise for the kind of shot placement necessary to kill small game humanely. My eyesight is so poor that any gun I intend to use to kill things wears a good telescopic sight.
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Thanks. Good to know. I used to have wicked great eyes but after 45 years of computer screens, it's farsightedness problem. Hence the hesitation with red dots and peeps.
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Please keep us informed when you start "relocating" Iguanas to the hereafter. I intend to make an Iguana Safari soon and I want all the tips I can get! ;D
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If you are near sighted a rear peep sight should work well. Because of an optical phenomenon called the Camera Obscura effect the rear aperature acts as a lens and you can actually correct for near sightedness by adjusting the focal distance from the aperature to your eye. I find the large (3 minute or more) red dots to be too imprecise for the kind of shot placement necessary to kill small game humanely. My eyesight is so poor that any gun I intend to use to kill things wears a good telescopic sight.
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I would recomend this sight below. I have one on my pistol and did not have to mess with my front sight. Or get a Wiliams rear peep sight.(Just pick the right one)
https://www.pyramydair.com/customer-product-images/a/crosman-lpa-mim-rear-sight-for-crosman-guns-with-a-steel-breech/4385 (https://www.pyramydair.com/customer-product-images/a/crosman-lpa-mim-rear-sight-for-crosman-guns-with-a-steel-breech/4385)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/williams-diopter-sight?a=2003 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/williams-diopter-sight?a=2003)
A Bug buster scope is an excellant choice as well.
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Yeah, so I love the gun but it's consistently shooting right. See attached. Yellow arrows mark aim points. Everything was at 10 yards and 90 degrees in the shade. I shot JSB MATCH EXACT JUMBO HEAVY 18.13g and JSB MATCH EXACT JUMBO 15.89.
The buckhorn rear sight only adjusts for elevation so I'm stuck for L/R correction. I checked for cant. Maybe it's the hard trigger on the 2260. Maybe it's me. I don't know and am not sure what to do next. After the first two groups, I decided to aim at points to the left and it put the shots near the original bull but eventually, this thing has to dispatch Iguanas.
Second problem is my old eyes. Need glasses to focus on front sight. Forget about rear sight. Saw a great but boring video on the history of sights where it made mention of how the military designed iron sights around the capable vision of 20 year olds. So as much as I like doing things the old fashioned way, it looks like I'm into adding optics. Not many choices in red dots for 11mm dovetails but I did find a couple REFLEX designs at $50 and there's always a Bugbuster at $110. But I wonder if a red dot will really solve the problem of not being able to focus on near things. What about rear peep with glasses?
What do you recommend?
Since you’re considering red dots but only have 11mm dovetail grooves, I found this on Amazon for my P-17, has several (I think five) levels of brightness so I can shoot in bright sunlight (I have old eyes too) and choice of red or green dot, or various other reticle shapes. Battery seems to last forever too. Good luck:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0160EFOKA?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title] [url]https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0160EFOKA?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title (http://[url)[/url]
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'Peep" sight would likely help....even with glasses. Problem being the apature/peep sights that would fit that one would also need a new front (taller) sight to work right...can't think of anything currently that would mount low enough to keep the front sight....so think in terms of BOTH the front and the rear sight.
Reddot has helped...basically the immage is all in one focal plane. Same is true for "peep"sights (even with prescrition-eyes). It'sastill an "extraadd on",sticks up waiting to get knocked around, runs out of power at the worst possible moment.
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I see front sights that need a dovetail of some kind. Are there standardized bands or something I can replace the stock front sight with? Not sure what to search on. TIA
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BugBuster and UTG .22/Airgun to Picatinny/Weaver Low Pro Snap-in Adaptor. You'll love it! ;D
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The rear sight would work.
It's the height of the front sight that is the problem.
Simplest way to get a match type front sight on is to order the Crosman Callenger 2009 front sight base (CH 2009-029) and the little set screws (88-089). It's made to slip on that diameter barrel and has the grooves to attach the match type front sight.
But it will be long for a 2260 barrel....could always cut off the extra.
If you could live with a post front sight,then the front sight, then the one from the Crosman 1701 would work (didn't look up the part number). Also made to slide on that diameter barrel
They aren't giving away even the lower priced match sights....could scope it both easier and cheaper....or red dot it. Neither one has to be too complicated/expensive to work on a non-recoiling rifle that isn't going to be used at long range.
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Simplest way to get a match type front sight on is to order the Crosman Callenger 2009 front sight base (CH 2009-029) and the little set screws (88-089). It's made to slip on that diameter barrel and has the grooves to attach the match type front sight.
Is this the Challenger part? https://maverickcustomairguns.com/product/ch2009-front-sight-base-kit/
They aren't giving away even the lower priced match sights....could scope it both easier and cheaper....or red dot it. Neither one has to be too complicated/expensive to work on a non-recoiling rifle that isn't going to be used at long range.
Indeed. Replacing the cheap iron sights with adjustable peep sights is about the same as a basic Red Dot or a low end fixed power scope. The question do all three work with old eyes?
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OK...two PROOF OF CONCEPT ideas for peep/apatrure sights.
Either will cost nothing but alittle time.
#1. Glasses.
Use an old pair of glasses(preccritption or just safety glasses)
Small bit of black tapewith a hole poked in it (if you don't have black tape, then marks-a-lot whatever color it is to black).
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50213931728_e56aa28bd3_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jvewtA)DSCN2890 (https://flic.kr/p/2jvewtA) by Robert Dean (https://www.flickr.com/photos/144930793@N07/), on Flickr
(I'd use a smaller hole in the tape for rifles....turens out I like a slightly larger hole for pistols.)
HAve to fiddle around with the placement to get it in the natural spot your eye goes to when you aim the rifle, but it works like an oldmanuaol set camera's f-stop. Makes for depth of field.....so you actually see the rear sight/front sight,and target at once.
Another try for proof of concept needs a bit more stuff.
#2: temp. peep sight.
Leave the iron sights on the rifle,adjusted as they are.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50214667642_d4e7b4ee0c_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jviieL)DSCN2887 (https://flic.kr/p/2jviieL) by Robert Dean (https://www.flickr.com/photos/144930793@N07/), on Flickr
Object is to cut out that silver key-hole shaped bit from a softdrink/beer can.
Poke a small hole in the roundish part.
Color that roundish part black.
Bend it and tape it on (but allow ther bolt to cycle).
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50214691697_bea8d25b3d_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jviqov)DSCN2888 (https://flic.kr/p/2jviqov) by Robert Dean (https://www.flickr.com/photos/144930793@N07/), on Flickr
Likely tke a few trys, rebending and retaping,but eventually you;ll be looking though the hole and right down the aligned iron sights.
Can then remove the rear open sight and try a couple of groups.
If you don't knock the delicate little thing, can put the rear sight back on just as aligned as when you started.
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yes...your link is to the same Crosman front sight mount....but try the above to see how well it works for you.
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Here is the red dot I bought for my 2240xl. Best one I've had. 3moa dot. Holds position. A little pricey (for cheapo me) but I'm sure happy with it. Also tried it on my 850 and was great there.
Also this one is made for dovetails mounting.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/hawke-red-dot-sights-vantagerd-1x20-9-11mm-3-moa-dot?a=8971 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/hawke-red-dot-sights-vantagerd-1x20-9-11mm-3-moa-dot?a=8971)
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Here ya go...I put this on my 1975 Sheridan...this takes care of the front sight issue.. See "Track of the Wolf" site.
http://u.cubeupload.com/crazyhorse4/Quigley55Yardsightin.jpg (http://u.cubeupload.com/crazyhorse4/Quigley55Yardsightin.jpg)
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Great ideas all. I went to modify my safety glasses when I realized I had removed the peep sight from my vintage model 99 before sending it off to Baker Airguns for a refurb. With a 1.25 8-32 screw, I was able to attach it behind the breech. Voila. I shot 2 groups of 5 (18.13g and 15.89g JSP Exact Jumbo). I had to adjust the peep windage to it's extreme to get lined up on center. To get the elevation, I had to use the bull and front sight to make lower case "i". Fundamnetally the gun shoots right but for now I can shoot.
What can I do about the gun shooting right?
New problem, when I put a new CO2 canister in, there was a hiss when I dry fired it and felt it through the trigger. I quickly tightened the tube cap and got 11 shots. Is this a problem with me not tightening the screw holding the peep sight or just not tightening the tub cap enough?
Yes I used Pellgun oil on the canister. :-) TIA
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I can support the tape on the glasses trick. I use it all the time .Takes a little fiddle to get it just right . Use as small a hole that you can make with a needle. Make it about a nickle in size. I have a second pair of glasses and just leave it for shooting. Use both eyes and it'll just come into focus.I used to shoot comp. and used it all the time , this dot thing is as old as time.
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Wilson:Just waiting...you already know which way the rear sight has to move to make it shoot left. But with that set up (good test), would be more of a pivot than a side-slide.
Never a fan of the slot in the fill cap...if finger strength won't seal it, then you need a new seal.
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Wilson:Just waiting...you already know which way the rear sight has to move to make it shoot left. But with that set up (good test), would be more of a pivot than a side-slide.
Never a fan of the slot in the fill cap...if finger strength won't seal it, then you need a new seal.
Yeah that model 99 Peep had to slide left and pivot a little for it to shoot straight. I put everything back and shot a group compensating with the buckhorn so if an Iguana shows up, I know I can shoot an inch group.
I only use finger tight. I didn't see your post until I started a new thread about the problem. Thanks for all the help. Which seal do I need to replace?
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Is this what I need?
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UPDATE: Something went wrong at the time I added that peep sight using the rear sight screw. I don't know if the 1/4" longer screw I used wasn't tight enough or somehow misaligned something slightly. Or maybe I didn't crew the CO2 cap enough and ruined the Valve Seal G397-012. I have another thread on that problem.
Moving forward on this thread, thanks for all the help on the iron sights. I found a deal on a Leapers UTG 4x32 AO True Hunter scope on Optics Planet. Unfortunately the only model remaining had the wrong rings so some BKL rings were an add on for a total $76 shipped. I'm excited to experience a scope with decent turrets and learn how to use mildots. A fixed scope with 15yds-infinity AO suites my backyard plinking/Iguana range perfectly. FWIW, Optics Planet has one left:
https://www.opticsplanet.com/leapers-utg-4x32-1in-ao-true-hunter-riflescope.html (https://www.opticsplanet.com/leapers-utg-4x32-1in-ao-true-hunter-riflescope.html)
As far as the gun shooting right 3" at 10 yards, can I loosen the tube side of the barrel band and twist it slightly to correct this? I'd wait till after I properly mount the scope. If the problem persists, is the band adjustment a valid "fix" or a dummy noob mistake?
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EDIT at bottom.
Not saying you have to buy from here....just wanted the picture. You could hunt up the parts numbers and order from Crosman (phone orders...and they pretty much deal in parts numbers).
https://www.@#$%^.com/Seal-and-Valve-Stem-Kit-for-Crosman-2240-and-1740-p/2240sealvalvestemkit.htm (https://www.@#$%^.com/Seal-and-Valve-Stem-Kit-for-Crosman-2240-and-1740-p/2240sealvalvestemkit.htm)
Think middle part(the valve stem) is the part leaking down the barrel.
Looking at the picture,the "peach"colored sealsare what the 12gr.nise is pushed into to deal.
The big o-ring goes between the two halves of the valve body.
Medium0-rings seal the transfer port.
Little o-rings are bolt probe.
I'll look around on-line. They used the same valve in the 2240 as the 2260, they interchange.
Not too picky about scopes....simple inexpensive ones generally work better than complicated inexpensive ones....I've used that scope and have no complaints. Several rifles do use 4X scopes,it's really a pretty good match to the rifle.
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Read 2nd thread at last:
OK...tube got cold...yep, that's likely the peach color seal. MAking a substitute is a whole lot of trouble, so I'd buy the reseal kit (I'd still want a spare valve stem). For that matter, could get a complete 2240/2260 valve (they are the same) if the price was reasonable (haven't checked in awhile).
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Great timing @ribbonstone. I decided it was likely the peach valve face seal. I just now have a shopping cart at "archerairgun" with a replacement valve and seal kit so I have a quick fix if/when the valve stem goes. That seal kit also has the TP seal so if/when ... Looking at Alliance next. Thanks again for all the help.
Now, what about the barrel band adjustment tweak for the shooting right problem?
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Take the band off then try gently moving the barrel and see if it wants to just stay wherever you move it or if it want's the spring back to it's original place.
Part of that is how the breech end is tightened down....but for goodness sake don't strip the little front breech screw (And as you're going to have to take apart the rifle to get to the seal you need to change, don't do anything now you'll have to re-do later?).
Generally, would rather have the barrel in it's neutral spot, then put on the barrel band, and just deal with a scope adjustment.....forcing it into a stressed alignment hasn't worked out all that well.
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Awesome. Will do. I added a stainless steel breech screw to my cart at alliance. Getting a valve and seal kit.
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UPDATE:
Moving forward on this thread, thanks for all the help on the iron sights. I found a deal on a Leapers UTG 4x32 AO True Hunter scope on Optics Planet. Unfortunately the only model remaining had the wrong rings so some BKL rings were an add on for a total $76 shipped. I'm excited to experience a scope with decent turrets and learn how to use mildots. A fixed scope with 15yds-infinity AO suites my backyard plinking/Iguana range perfectly. FWIW, Optics Planet has one left:
https://www.opticsplanet.com/leapers-utg-4x32-1in-ao-true-hunter-riflescope.html (https://www.opticsplanet.com/leapers-utg-4x32-1in-ao-true-hunter-riflescope.html)
As far as the gun shooting right 3" at 10 yards, can I loosen the tube side of the barrel band and twist it slightly to correct this? I'd wait till after I properly mount the scope. If the problem persists, is the band adjustment a valid "fix" or a dummy noob mistake?
Here is something old school to help with the mildots, great handy slide rule, that gives you accurate range estimates using your scope and the charts.
https://www.amazon.com/Mildot-Enterprises-Master/dp/B008WTWKEA (https://www.amazon.com/Mildot-Enterprises-Master/dp/B008WTWKEA)
And yes I would center the scope , if new should be close enough, shoot and adjust the Barrel Band to get on POA. then fine tune with turrets.
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I have a 2260MB. Got old eyes also. Never shot it with open sights. You really need to scope it.
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Scope shipped today. Magazine arrived and I tried it out. Totally obscures the iron sights. You have to go to a higher rear and front sight, red dot or scope.
The magazine works like a charm.
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Scope arrived but the rings I ordered were for a 30mm scope so I am waiting for an exchange. Opticsplanet is great that way. As easy to return and exchange as Amazon.
In the meantime, I installed a power adjuster and a Pro-Top valve seal to replace the brain dead Crosman face seal. The Pro-top pierces the the canister when you tighten the top instead of waiting till you cock and shoot. The later is problematic when you don't tighten enough and the seal blows or vice versa, tighten too much and the seal is damaged. IMHO the 2260 is fundamentally flawed that way. Pro-Top should be standard.
I now have a working gun. The 2260MB iron sights are useless. The gun fires 2-3" right at 10 yards and there is no windage adjustment. At least the Crosman 2260LE comes with a rear better sight at the cost of a plastic breech.
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What is that magazine and where did you get it?
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That is a GRAVmag 9s. It only supports specific pellets. I got the Croosman bersion that has an extra tube for Crosman pellets. It comes from the UK but you gotta grab one while they are available. Works like a charm. FIts under Standard/Medium rings.
https://www.airgun-parts-shop.co.uk/collections/all-crosman-products (https://www.airgun-parts-shop.co.uk/collections/all-crosman-products)
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Did get the old protop sealed....a little toughter than the orginal,so I have to screw down a bit harder,but it works. Used what I think is a Discovery valve stem.
Still looking for a little bit more "squishy"seal material.
Never did polish it...cleaned it,but the dull oxidized brass from years of being in storage doesn't bother me.
Did shoot a bit faster than the orginal...likly due to less clutterand the smaller valve stem. Which is NOT what I wanted,but adjusted the spring tension a bit and it got back to the energy level I was looking for.
You would not have been thrilled with the plastic breech and the clamp on scope mount that that required. That plastic breech works well enough with the issue rear sights of the time,but consider that the barrel is just pushed into the plastic breech,NOT secured with set screws,just the metal transfer port interlocking the barrel in place.
Considering th shape of the feeding systemof that mag...it's likely to be a bit pellet picky.....keep an open mind testing, likely there is something that will both feed and shoot well.
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I think the Sheridan 2260MB should have come with usable open sights. You pay more but is usable out of the box. The sights from the LE would have been fine. Or a rear sight with windage. Or a gun that shoots straight.
Anyway, is the advantage of the Discovery valve stem that its smaller and therefore allows more air to be used in the valve per shot?
These are the approved pellets for the standard GRAVmag magazine tube:
JSB Exact Jumbo Diabolo (15.89)
Air Arms Diabolo Field
RWS Super H Point
Webley VMX
H&N Baracuda Hunter
Weihrauch FT Exact
For $5 more you get a "Crosman Tube" which supports these:
Crosman Premier 14.3gr
Crosman Premier Hollow Point 14.3gr
Crosman Premier Ultra Magnum 14.3gr
Webley Accupell
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why are you going nuts with all the after market producers that resell crosman parts?
go to crosman's web site and look at the exploded views and parts lists and call them to place an order, they have the lowest prices for the parts that they make...
order a cheap bottom of the line kt2400 from the custom shop and you'll get open access to order everthing they offer there too...
the REAL question STILL hasn't even been considered....why does the barrel shoot so far right?
look on this site for info on how to clean, check and crown an airgun barrel....use a dowel to push some pellets through the barrel to check for smooth passage (requires some easy disassembly to get the barrel off)...
and welcome to what we call the Lego Gun series...aka the crosman 22xx and 13xx platform based airguns that range form the 1377 and 2240 at the low end up to the Fortitude rifle and Marauder pistol at the higher side
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Could well be a jacked up barrel....but they do sell them with what is basically 1/2 fixed sights (elevtion,m but no windage)....and put a plastic front sight that hides the muzzle/crown.
If the barrel were off, one good roll on a clean glass table top would pretty well show if the barrel was seriously bent.
Couple of pushed though pellets could confrim if there is a bugger on the barrel port.
A crtical visual and a stright edge (or a dead straight 3 foot rod/dowel) would give clues to the alignement (often foced cock-eyed by the barrel band). If you don't have that, a string and a weight (plum bob).
Evidently, he's going to scope it....which is what most of us would do....which might solve all his problems.MIght solve none of them.
Figured we'd deal with them after that point.
ProTop does worek....it also limits the ability to hot rod a 2260. Whatever gas gets into the valve has to move though that tiny-tiny hole in the middle of the piering nipple. Willpoke a good sized hole in a 12gr.,but it'sthe little hole in the middle of that fixed nipple that passes the co2 along.
Really no problem...can't cycle the bolt fast enought to NOT have the vlave get filled between shots.
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2260 rear sight is adjustable (cough) for windage....you just have push firmly, pry on or take a hammer to it...
your milage may vary, but it worked for me....
ans while nearly everything i own has scope on it, i'm begining to think open sights are less hold sensitive in the eye relief and cheek weld areas...
i don't group well with open siights, but in practical situations, i hit what i am aiming for with far less deliberation...
that said, come on y'all help me lead this guy down the rabblt hole...hehehahahehe...(counting my 13xx and 22xx series airguns, all modified by me...7....8...9....oh and this pile of parts will be....)....you won't believe what my 2260MB looks like now...
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Don't really like leaning/rotationally challenged, sights.
But were it mine, it would get the sight bald cut off to a stump....an adjustable leaf spring sight low temp. silver soldered onto the stump...and would "clciky-clicky" my way to zero.
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I think the Sheridan 2260MB should have come with usable open sights. You pay more but is usable out of the box. The sights from the LE would have been fine. Or a rear sight with windage. Or a gun that shoots straight.
Anyway, is the advantage of the Discovery valve stem that its smaller and therefore allows more air to be used in the valve per shot?
These are the approved pellets for the standard GRAVmag magazine tube:
JSB Exact Jumbo Diabolo (15.89)
Air Arms Diabolo Field
RWS Super H Point
Webley VMX
H&N Baracuda Hunter
Weihrauch FT Exact
For $5 more you get a "Crosman Tube" which supports these:
Crosman Premier 14.3gr
Crosman Premier Hollow Point 14.3gr
Crosman Premier Ultra Magnum 14.3gr
Webley Accupell
The Disco valve stem is not so much smaller, but rather harder than the OEM 22xx co2 stem. The advantage is it lifts easier, and quicker with less force. So you can get more power with less striker spring pressure. Also works very well with a lighter striker.
The downside is that it does not always give a good seal with the OEM brass 22xx valve body, unless you lap it in. I always recommend using the higher quality Disco valve body, and stem mated to the Pro-Top.
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Did get the old protop sealed....a little toughter than the orginal,so I have to screw down a bit harder,but it works. Used what I think is a Discovery valve stem.
Still looking for a little bit more "squishy"seal material.
Never did polish it...cleaned it,but the dull oxidized brass from years of being in storage doesn't bother me.
Did shoot a bit faster than the orginal...likly due to less clutterand the smaller valve stem. Which is NOT what I wanted,but adjusted the spring tension a bit and it got back to the energy level I was looking for.
You would not have been thrilled with the plastic breech and the clamp on scope mount that that required. That plastic breech works well enough with the issue rear sights of the time,but consider that the barrel is just pushed into the plastic breech,NOT secured with set screws,just the metal transfer port interlocking the barrel in place.
Ribbonstone if you reduce the bore for the stem to 1/8"using the "Hobby Shop" brass tube bushing I think you will find the 13xx stem to be somewhere between the Disco, and the 22xx stem as far as hardness goes.
Considering th shape of the feeding systemof that mag...it's likely to be a bit pellet picky.....keep an open mind testing, likely there is something that will both feed and shoot well.
Ribbonstone if you reduce the bore for the stem to 1/8"using the "Hobby Shop" brass tube bushing I think you will find the 13xx stem to be somewhere between the Disco, and the 22xx stem as far as hardness goes.
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why are you going nuts with all the after market producers that resell crosman parts? ... the REAL question STILL hasn't even been considered....why does the barrel shoot so far right?
Yeah, to be fair, I started this thread with a couple directions for which I was seeking advice. And I clearly had the wrong expectation that the top of the line 22xx model should put down 1" groups on target at 10yds out of the box. Silly me.
But along the way to removing me and my old eyes, from the equation of a new rifle shooting 2-3" to the right that in spite of being the series top model, was the discovery it doesn't allow windage adjustment (Strike 1) and in experimenting, I ran across the problem of CO2 cartridges letting off half their load due to the finicky design of the valve face seal (Strike 2). Being the dang seal is 10" down the tube and hard to see, the question became: "Return it or fix it?" Pyramid said "send it back or replace the seal, my call." So I took the advice here, bought what I needed to tear it down and fix (including bore cleaning stuff). I opted for a more sure footed design that didn't depend on the non-universal definition of "Finger Tight". But I still had to get past the hairy brain dead .050 Allen Key breech screw (Strike 3) paying $5 shipping for $1.50 stainless steel Torx replacement.
So now the gun will take a cartridge reliably and following the assembly advice here to make sure the barrel was assembled correctly, it shoots exactly the same. But at least it takes cartridges at will, adjusts for power and I can tra la la along with lego a solution to my eyes when the rings come in, clean the barrel and see what other chocolates are in the 2260 box. One thing I know thanks to the Pro-Top/Adjuster fix is that at full power and 18.13g pellets, it will kill a think skinned hard headed iguana at 2 yds (albeit) off the kill shot to the right (Home Run on second time at bat). ;D
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duplicate post deleted
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I have to say, I'd love to see HYspd's tricked out 2260MB. Who's with me?
Today, I used these bore whips as they were the only ones I could find in stock. They are difficult to feed into the small breech of the 2260. The line gets hung up on the TP. After three pulls with Ballistol, there was no change to accuracy.
Attached is the factory crown on the barrel. What is the cotton swab test?
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That is a GRAVmag 9s. It only supports specific pellets. I got the Croosman bersion that has an extra tube for Crosman pellets. It comes from the UK but you gotta grab one while they are available. Works like a charm. FIts under Standard/Medium rings.
https://www.airgun-parts-shop.co.uk/collections/all-crosman-products (https://www.airgun-parts-shop.co.uk/collections/all-crosman-products)
Les, if you don't mind would you happen to know if the GravMag would fit a QB78? Mine is a steel breech. Thanks for any opinions.
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Just my quick take, but you should expect to be within a dime sized groups @ 10 yards with that rifle. It should be more than capable of it. My 2260 out of the box was with plastic breech and open sites. If not, I'd send it back for replacement.
I would go with the bug buster and forget open sights. More money, I know, but once done, your done. Plus the compact size fits it well.
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Les, if you don't mind would you happen to know if the GravMag would fit a QB78? Mine is a steel breech. Thanks for any opinions.
I don't know what the differences are between the 2260 and QB78 steel breeches. The GRAVmag clips to the 11mm dovetail. It's feed tube extends into the breech and rides on the probe. A spring in the GRAVmag pushes the tube into the open breech when the bolt is pulled back to cock the gun. The space between the end of the tube and the bottom of the breech is the right size for a pellet. When the probe pushes that pellet into the chamber, the tube recedes (against its spring) and the probe prevents another pellet from loading. Rinse and repeat.
Only certain pellets are supported due to the shape of the bore in the feeder tube. For example, the standard tube works for JSB Match Exact Jumbo 15.89g pellets but not the 18.13g variant of that pellet. Ditto the Crossman tube ... specific pellet shapes.
Once the plate at the top of the tube is adjusted properly, it deflects enough to let a pellet pass when under finger pressure while loading but does not allow the pellets to slide out. There are registration marks on that piece to help repeat the setup if/when you want to dump the magazine.
Here's some closeups.
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why are you going nuts with all the after market producers that resell crosman parts? ... the REAL question STILL hasn't even been considered....why does the barrel shoot so far right?
Yeah, to be fair, I started this thread with a couple directions for which I was seeking advice. And I clearly had the wrong expectation that the top of the line 22xx model should put down 1" groups on target at 10yds out of the box. Silly me.
But along the way to removing me and my old eyes, from the equation of a new rifle shooting 2-3" to the right that in spite of being the series top model, was the discovery it doesn't allow windage adjustment (Strike 1) and in experimenting, I ran across the problem of CO2 cartridges letting off half their load due to the finicky design of the valve face seal (Strike 2). Being the dang seal is 10" down the tube and hard to see, the question became: "Return it or fix it?" Pyramid said "send it back or replace the seal, my call." So I took the advice here, bought what I needed to tear it down and fix (including bore cleaning stuff). I opted for a more sure footed design that didn't depend on the non-universal definition of "Finger Tight". But I still had to get past the hairy brain dead .050 Allen Key breech screw (Strike 3) paying $5 shipping for $1.50 stainless steel Torx replacement.
So now the gun will take a cartridge reliably and following the assembly advice here to make sure the barrel was assembled correctly, it shoots exactly the same. But at least it takes cartridges at will, adjusts for power and I can tra la la along with lego a solution to my eyes when the rings come in, clean the barrel and see what other chocolates are in the 2260 box. One thing I know thanks to the Pro-Top/Adjuster fix is that at full power and 18.13g pellets, it will kill a think skinned hard headed iguana at 2 yds (albeit) off the kill shot to the right (Home Run on second time at bat). ;D
just a quick reply haven't had time to read more than first 2 lines..
the discovery, fortitude, maximus are the upper tier of the 22xx line...the 2260MB is a discovery crossed with a 2240...
and at 10 yards you should be stacking 3 out of 5 pellets once you are used to the airgun...groips over an inch to the right at only 10 yards high lights an issue
a vague possiblity is that your hold is not straight up and down (my personal nemisis) when sighting...
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I do feel I checked for cant in my testing. I was considering spending twice the 2260MB money on a Discovery plus another $50 for China pump thinking I'd have less fiddling with the power plant. LOL. But I wouldn't have the budget for other fun stuff like reactive targets, possible red dot or scope, etc. Really, for me, I needed a nice plinker with enough power to dispatch the occasional iguana. I expected iron sights to do the trick but in the end, old eyes made that difficult. Maybe tomorrow the weather will be good and I can lock it down for a test.
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Just judging by the pictures....the crown of that one looks a lot nicer than many Crosman barrels.
Get a scope on it (and I'll bet right now there will be some minor issues with that), shoot slow in a temp.stable enviroment,and see what it can really do.
Don't give a hoot-n-*(&^ where the groups form at first...if it wants to cluster pellets,we'll figure out how to get the clusters where you need them.
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I have to say, I'd love to see HYspd's tricked out 2260MB. Who's with me?
Today, I used these bore whips as they were the only ones I could find in stock. They are difficult to feed into the small breech of the 2260. The line gets hung up on the TP. After three pulls with Ballistol, there was no change to accuracy.
Attached is the factory crown on the barrel. What is the cotton swab test?
here's a pic of her kt1300..and [edit] my 2260MB in it's current non pcp configuration
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=5719)
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Nice guns big buddy.
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That is a GRAVmag 9s. It only supports specific pellets. I got the Croosman bersion that has an extra tube for Crosman pellets. It comes from the UK but you gotta grab one while they are available. Works like a charm. FIts under Standard/Medium rings.
https://www.airgun-parts-shop.co.uk/collections/all-crosman-products (https://www.airgun-parts-shop.co.uk/collections/all-crosman-products)
Les, if you don't mind would you happen to know if the GravMag would fit a QB78? Mine is a steel breech. Thanks for any opinions.
that would be a no, the bolt body diameter of the QB is huge compared to the 13xx/22xx bolt body diameter...
[edit] as in approx 9/16" on the QB and 1/4" for the crosman....
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here's a pic of her kt1300..and [edit] my 2260MB in it's current non pcp configuration
Have you ever shot that non-pcp configuration with iron sights? DOes it shoot right by chance? :-)
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those pics i posted are old...both are built on 2260 tubes currently running co2, with 18" barrels hers is .177 mine is .22 (awaiting a pcp update) and have Discovery bolt handles...
the Muddy Girl has the kt series adjustable trigger group and the black has a 1701T trigger group with an alchemy airwerks hammer...
fitting the kt1300 pumper fore end to the 2260 tube required an adapter hacked out of a piece of aluminum angle stock....
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Got tired of waiting for Optics Planet exchange so I picked up some junk low height rings on Amazon. Boom. Zero'ed the scope and the attached group at 10yrds was right in the middle of the left/right range (the high one was me). With low height rings, the turrets have to be forward of the GRAVmag magazine which puts the eye relief a little forward than I'd like and I scuffed a finger on the ring while working the bolt. I can learn to deal with that.
HOWEVER, since I had to remove the rear iron sight if I wanted to use the scope flip up covers, I leveled the gun using the steel breech and threw a level on the barrel's rear sight seat. I'm thinking that's not right:
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If you want the Gravmag behind the turrets you could try an offset mount/ rings. If that's to close to the eye, a slip over recoil pad could help and give a little more pull length. Options?
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With low height rings and this scope, the gravmag forces the position. But the height is maxed out even with a shim so medium height rings means a lot of holdover shooting for my backyard range. I’ll look at the off set rings again. Thx.
What does everyone think about The rear sight seat not being in the same plane as the breech?
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Back at the rear end, the ports should line up....so the hole in the barrel lines up with the hole in the breech and lines up with the transfer port which lines up with the port in the valve body.....basically 4 holes.
If that is happenin,can consider that flat to have been machined wrong.
IF that alignment isn't happening, then the barrel is somewhat rotated and that flat may have been machined level.
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Thanks Robert,
I'm counting three things cause the lineup.
1) 1322-015 lines up the tube center axis and breech center axis rotationally
2) 1322B027 makes breech center axis and tube center axis parallel
3) TP aligns rotation of barrel with rotation of tube
Because the breech and tube are aligned via 1322-015, therefore the barrel center axis is aligned with the breech center axis subject to the tolerance of the TP. Man that seems like a very important alignment to depend on such a small mechanical connection. Am I missing something?
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True that little interlock of the transfer port is an important part of the design,but the barrel set screw probably does most of the holding in place.
Quite possible the flat for that sight was not made quite right....considering the the two choices....prot lined up or sight flat level and true....would prefer the transfer port to be right.
Thinking about that Crosman barrel and that rear sight flat....it's something they only do on tht one model,but the barrel is common to several rifles...suspecting that that is a later step done to already existing barrels.
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well therez yer problem(picks teeth)
i would believe that much barrel rotation in the breech would prevent the fitting of the transfer port in any functional fashion, so i'm voting for bad machine work...when you assemble the barrel into the breech you use the transfer port as an alignment gauge...the tport has a tapered end with i think it's a 3/16" od that snug fits into a counter bored counter sink (a shallow cylinder with a tapered bottom) that has to match to work...the tport's main body is i think 1/4" od and that snug fits into a hole in the underside of the breech that is also a match ...it's a jig saw puzzle, it only goes together one way, all the parts match and fit or they don't fit at all...
crosman would likely replace that barrel, but if it shoots well, i would keep it....so far that 10 yards group looks good but with airguns the proof is in the distance and good means it shoots well at the longest range you plan on shooting it at and then maybe a bit farther just be sure...
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Thanks for the idea HYSpd. I think I'll contact Crosman. PA is swamped and exchanging emails is a 48 hour thing. They haven't posted my review yet either.
Per chance there were others with this problem, I read the user reviews of the Sheridan 2260MB on PA and found others that also experienced the CO2 leakage on the second or third canister and some others that mention iron sights out of kilter. Pretty much everyone put a scope or red dot on and never hit the barrel problem. Everyone says the gun is accurate and that's true shot to shot but not as a whole. That barrel alignment is a problem I'd think would hit either every unit or some percentage that came from a bad machine/person/batch.
I did a proper zeroing yesterday with the gun locked down and windage is less than 2 turns from its extreme leftward compensation. That's against the spring correct?
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If it shoots well (and that last target was 4 out of 5 goodness) with the scope, I might let the matter rest rather than start over....and maybe end up with a nice level sight slot, but one of the poor barrels (it's pretty much a lottery ticket).
Yes...the spring that runs the internal adjustments is on the left lower side (to be able to tension both up and down with one spring).....so the turret adjustements "in" increase that spring tesnsion.
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Thanks Robert. I think I’ll stick with what’s working.
So, I had to adjust the reticle to the right which means it’s nearing the end of its tension. Will keep an eye on that. Pardon the pun. :D
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Since Crosman's iron sights are useless, the nice wooden stock which was the driving reason to get the Sheridan 2260MB is too low for anything else. It's now a Frankenstein gun with a neoprene riser but I can pick it up and shoot at 10 - 20yds with crosshairs on the bull. A little heavy but at least it works.
The trigger is over 4lbs so I picked up the Baker kit that lowers that and makes it a little adjustable. Is there a hammer bounce MOD to eek out more shots per fill? I already have a power adjuster.
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I felt the report of the Sheridan 2260MB was too loud. Its crack reminded me of slapping two pieces of lumber together. Anyway, I felt it was going to be annoying so I set out to reduce it.
Having a background in audio/video production, here's the scoop:
- Sound is measured in terms of distance from the source not unlike FPS (at muzzle vs POI).
- City/Neighborhood regulations, if there are any, are usually defined in terms of a maximum sound reading at the property line.
- At a given moment, there is sound that is the background noise plus the sound you are adding with your airgun.
- The sound level of a report is the total sound minus the background level. That is, the additional sound added by the report is the loudness measurement of the gun.
- When you measure the effectiveness of a muzzle brake or whatever, you want to first remove the background noise at the time of the shot and then compare the two resulting measurements.
Sheridan 2260MB (power adjuster at max, OEM valve body with Pro-Top, OEM TP):
- WITHOUT TKO 5.5" MUZZLE BRAKE AT 4 feet: Background 55db, Report 110db. Net sound level = 55db
- WITH TKO 5.5 AT 4 feet: Background 53.5db, Report 91.1db. Net sound level = 37.6
- Sound reduction of TKO 5.5: 55 - 37.6 = 17.4db
It's much improved. Being useless, the fixed front sight has to be removed. The TKO instructions provide various techniques for the various barrels it fits. For the Sheridan 2260MB plastic sight, a tap on the ramp with hammer and screw driver pops it off. A solid piece of wood will save a scrape of the barrel. The TKO slides on but requires a little elbow grease and twisting back and forth. The instructions provide guidance for how far to slide it on for different guns. For some, the PCP tube is the determining factor. For the 2260, you slide it to the specification in the instructions (1.185"). I suggest marking the barrel so you know when you've hit that point. Tightening two grub screws with the provided allen wrench finishes the job (the instructions are so complete they specify the opposing screws be positioned at 9 and 3 o'clock).
I have some work to do on the trigger so I will test for any changes in accuracy after doing the Baker trigger upgrade. That's going to be great.
In the "for what it's worth" category, I checked the level of the seat in the barrel for the front sight. With the breech level, both front and rear seats are out of level wrt the breech. With Scope, rings, magazine, moderator and comb riser, the formerly featherweight backyard plinker clocks in at 6lbs even.
Still looking for a hammer bounce mod.
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Try This > https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110145.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110145.0)
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Thank you Betong. Interesting. Looks like it had 3 seals by the end of it. Anyway, I forgot to include this photo in my TKO installation post and can't add it now. I am not seeing any accuracy problems but I ran out of pellets before doing a legit string.
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Today was Stainless Steel Breech Screw and Baker Trigger Kit day. I'm glad I got the new breech screw. In pulling the Crosman OEM screw out, I could tell the soft metal of allen screw was starting to give way. I picked up a stainless steel TORX #8 replacement at Magnum Power and installed it. I hope the shorter length is OK.
The Baker Airgun Trigger is wonderful. The instructions are good but there's a fantastic YOUTUBE video for it from Baker Airguns. I used a syringe of Mil-Comm TW25B which made the lube of all the small bits easy. The hardest part of the whole thing is the spring. Really tricky and stressful as one slip and that spring is going to go flying to who knows where. In the end, I had 10 pellets left to try it out and I love it.
However, after reassembly, I noticed the front scope ring was not fully seated on the breech. It had a .5mm gap caused by a lock down screw in the ring. After fixing that, I noticed I no longer had a gap between scope and GRAVmag. Fortunately, a little filing down of the GRAVmag left a paper thin gap and the scope seated nicely. The .59mm shim in the rear ring is still needed.
The gun shot so far left it missed my trap and about 3 inches low. Three turns worth of windage plus a dozen clicks of elevation and I was back on target at 20yrds. No surprise the scope is no longer zero'd but the Florida rains came and that will have to wait for another day.