GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Hunting Gate => Topic started by: Hotled on July 13, 2020, 11:18:00 AM
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That a little insane isn’t it?
Texas laws ....
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Yes. The process by which airguns became legal in Texas was a fiasco. You ought to be able to find some archived posts about it here. Texas had basically moved to adopt Florida’s permissive airgun rules. Then a well connected rancher, a vocal minority of (IMHO) snobbish airgunners, and possibly a company from the airgun industry, all lobbied to jack the requirements higher and the current rules are an attempted compromise.
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Yes. The process by which airguns became legal in Texas was a fiasco. You ought to be able to find some archived posts about it here. Texas had basically moved to adopt Florida’s permissive airgun rules. Then a well connected rancher, a vocal minority of (IMHO) snobbish airgunners, and possibly a company from the airgun industry, all lobbied to jack the requirements higher and the current rules are an attempted compromise.
Been search an hour, no luck yet.
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I never shot a coon or a muskrat when I lived in Texas. In those days air rifles were legal to use on public small game tracts along with .22 rimfires shooting BB or CB caps. I'm trying to think of a commercial .22lr cartridge that produces 215 fpe?
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I never shot a coon or a muskrat when I lived in Texas. In those days air rifles were legal to use on public small game tracts along with .22 rimfires shooting BB or CB caps. I'm trying to think of a commercial .22lr cartridge that produces 215 fpe?
39gr at 1576fps = 215.146fpe
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Well, that's gonna limit your airgunning :) :) LOL
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Well, that's gonna limit your airgunning :) :) LOL
Yep, maybe pin them down with near misses, while someone gets in position to hit them in the head with a brick. ::)
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Wow. So you need 60% more power than the average rimfire 22LR HV to hunt small game with airguns? Has 22LR been outlawed in TX for hunting now? Even the CCI Stinger @ 1,640fps does not get 215fpe. What genius came up with that number? Anyone can take the biggest raccoons using a mid-high power Springer (15 to 24 FPE) with a head shot, and many have, including myself and hundreds of others here over the years (don't even need a PCP).
Dan, I am not aware of a Hyper-velocity 39gr in 22LR, or any 22LR making 215fpe. Who produces this 22LR 39gr round? Or where you just showing what it takes to reach 215fpe? I am pretty sure you 'd need to upgrade to 22 WMR or 17 HMR to produce that much kinetic energy.
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Wow. So you need 60% more power than the average rimfire 22LR HV to hunt small game with airguns? Has 22LR been outlawed in TX for hunting now? Even the CCI Stinger @ 1,640fps does not get 215fpe. What genius came up with that number? Anyone can take the biggest raccoons using a mid-high power Springer (15 to 24 FPE) with a head shot, and many have, including myself and hundreds of others here over the years (don't even need a PCP).
Dan, I am not aware of a Hyper-velocity 39gr in 22LR, or any 22LR making 215fpe. Who produces this 22LR 39gr round? Or where you just showing what it takes to reach 215fpe? I am pretty sure you 'd need to upgrade to 22 WMR or 17 HMR to produce that much kinetic energy.
I am not aware of any either, I was just posting the kind of specs it would need!
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Fun fact: By german law the minimum energy required to take down game (that includes hogs) is 737FPE at 100 meters. (E100 = 1000 Joule)
A friend of mine is a hunter in my local area. He got his CZ bolt action in .22 hornet (approx 700FPE at the muzzle) for the "Sunday Rabbit" :D
Maybe his wife prefers the rabbits legs....
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Wow. So you need 60% more power than the average rimfire 22LR HV to hunt small game with airguns? Has 22LR been outlawed in TX for hunting now? Even the CCI Stinger @ 1,640fps does not get 215fpe. What genius came up with that number? Anyone can take the biggest raccoons using a mid-high power Springer (15 to 24 FPE) with a head shot, and many have, including myself and hundreds of others here over the years (don't even need a PCP).
Dan, I am not aware of a Hyper-velocity 39gr in 22LR, or any 22LR making 215fpe. Who produces this 22LR 39gr round? Or where you just showing what it takes to reach 215fpe? I am pretty sure you 'd need to upgrade to 22 WMR or 17 HMR to produce that much kinetic energy.
What basically happened is that Texas came up with a minimum FPE for deer and then that was applied across the board to varmints as well. All stemming from some people, including air gunners, trying to roadblock use of .30 calibers for deer or otherwise not being happy about airgun deer hunting at all. And them trying to whisper it all to a commission of non-airgunner rulemakers. The cloud that the anti-.30 and anti-deer hunting airgunners kicked up scared the commissioners so bad that one of them wanted to scrap the entire endeavor so minimum FPE requirements akin to a .22 mag were adopted as a compromise measure to keep air-gunning on the table.
This is why I get aggravated with the self-righteous types when it comes to FPE and caliber questions for airgun hunting. I’m all for people having differing opinions. But when the FPE/caliber Gestapo starts a whispering campaign its mucks things up for all airgun hunters that goes beyond hunting one particular species.
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Wow. So you need 60% more power than the average rimfire 22LR HV to hunt small game with airguns? Has 22LR been outlawed in TX for hunting now? Even the CCI Stinger @ 1,640fps does not get 215fpe. What genius came up with that number? Anyone can take the biggest raccoons using a mid-high power Springer (15 to 24 FPE) with a head shot, and many have, including myself and hundreds of others here over the years (don't even need a PCP).
Dan, I am not aware of a Hyper-velocity 39gr in 22LR, or any 22LR making 215fpe. Who produces this 22LR 39gr round? Or where you just showing what it takes to reach 215fpe? I am pretty sure you 'd need to upgrade to 22 WMR or 17 HMR to produce that much kinetic energy.
What basically happened is that Texas came up with a minimum FPE for deer and then that was applied across the board to varmints as well. All stemming from some people, including air gunners, trying to roadblock use of .30 calibers for deer or otherwise not being happy about airgun deer hunting at all. And them trying to whisper it all to a commission of non-airgunner rulemakers. The cloud that the anti-.30 and anti-deer hunting airgunners kicked up scared the commissioners so bad that one of them wanted to scrap the entire endeavor so minimum FPE requirements akin to a .22 mag were adopted as a compromise measure to keep air-gunning on the table.
This is why I get aggravated with the self-righteous types when it comes to FPE and caliber questions for airgun hunting. I’m all for people having differing opinions. But when the FPE/caliber Gestapo starts a whispering campaign its mucks things up for all airgun hunters that goes beyond hunting one particular species.
I remember that thread now from a couple of years ago. Thanks for shaking the memories loose in my brain :)
So Texas has probably become the only state to impose their big game airgun regulations to small game ::)
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I want to know what air gun manufacturer did this or had a hand in it, I’m betting the office is in Dallas Ft Worth.
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I want to know what air gun manufacturer did this or had a hand in it, I’m betting the office is in Dallas Ft Worth.
According to my sources, it was NOT Airforce and in fact Airforce was vocal about leaving the original permissive rule in place.
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I hope that Thurmond of T3P Ranch can respond to this, he followed it closely and actually went to the hearings.
It seems like it was just an attempt to shoe-horn airguns into existing legislation without too much bother. Now we add airguns to firearms, black powder, archery and crossbows.
The existing rules for game animals was simply stated as "any centerfire". So something like a 32-20 Winchester, also known as .32 WCF (Winchester center fire) could be used. The 32-20 is about 215 FPE (292 joules)
I think that rule was made long ago to prevent 22LR from being used for deer.
Keep in mind that legislators, and the interns who actually draft the language of the law may have little to no knowledge of hunting.
I recall that there was a hunt organized to demonstrate the effectiveness of airguns by hunting pigs, which are considered pest animals. Someone came with a 30 caliber springer that only wounded a pig and that only angered the lawmaker.
Many states went with the "40-400" rule. That is 40 caliber (10mm) and 400 FPE (542 joules). At the time that this was being discussed the only airgun that you could actually buy was the AirForce Texan. There were rumors of the Umarex Hammer, but it was not available to purchase.
All in all, I think that the lawmakers bent over backward to legitimize airgun hunting. I am pretty sure that they intend to amend this legislation when more data is available.
Hunter
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I hope that Thurmond of T3P Ranch can respond to this, he followed it closely and actually went to the hearings.
It seems like it was just an attempt to shoe-horn airguns into existing legislation without too much bother. Now we add airguns to firearms, black powder, archery and crossbows.
The existing rules for game animals was simply stated as "any centerfire". So something like a 32-20 Winchester, also known as .32 WCF (Winchester center fire) could be used. The 32-20 is about 215 FPE (292 joules)
I think that rule was made long ago to prevent 22LR from being used for deer.
Keep in mind that legislators, and the interns who actually draft the language of the law may have little to no knowledge of hunting.
I recall that there was a hunt organized to demonstrate the effectiveness of airguns by hunting pigs, which are considered pest animals. Someone came with a 30 caliber springer that only wounded a pig and that only angered the lawmaker.
No, with respect, that isn’t what happened at all. I remember the testimony. There was no .30 springer involved that was mentioned. Supposedly some rancher hosted a PCP hog hunt with all manner of big bores including .45s and described all sorts of wounded pig carn-agewith a range of guns we would all recognize as being adequate if not overkill for hogs. In listening to the testimony, it was likely exaggerated to the point of being fabricated. The witness was the rancher’s guide and he sounded as sleezy as he could be. They obviously just had an anti-airgun agenda, and none of it had to do with deer anyhow or would have been effected by the change in regulations because hogs were already fully open to airguns and the new regs didn’t change how hogs could be hunted.
Let me put it this way. As having over a decade’s experience as a trial attorney and after have won many dozens of jury trials, if that ranch hand would have been my star witness for trial, I would have dumped the case. He presented as a total sleezebag and any experienced airgun hog hunter on this forum who listened to his testimony would have found it to be a load a bunk. The rancher really sounded like Boss Hog and the guide like Rosco. It was Southern good’ol boy politics at its worst.
But the real issue wasn’t just some rich rancher who had the back-door ear of one of the commissioners. You had a minority of airguns writing and calling in saying “dang right that ain’t enough gun for deer hunting.” And so it gave the anti-airgunners something to latch on to. That’s my biggest beef with how it played out.
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All of that being said, I’m not sure that the 215fpe rule applies to furbearers in Texas. As I look at the Texas administrative code, it looks like the rule is that an airgun used to harvest furbearers must be .30 or larger. I don’t see where the FPE rule applies.
I presume coons and muskrats are furbearers and not game animals in Texas? The 215fpe rule applies to game animals. Such as turkeys (where it is demonstrated to be ridiculous).
No such caliber rules apply to hunting furbearers in Texas with firearms. The .30 rule was written specifically for airguns. So it cannot be said to be a leftover of an earlier rule.
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Okay, yes you are right Travis, it was a rancher, not a lawmaker that sponsored the hunt. Hogs were the target because they are varmints, and could be legally taken with airguns. It's been a while. I do recall that the testimony was cheesey.
I am still curious about the input from AirForce. I vaguely remember that there was someone representing AirForce present, but I don't know the thrust of their testimony.
I should pay attention.
Do you have any knowledge of the AF stance?
Hunter
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I hope that Thurmond of T3P Ranch can respond to this, he followed it closely and actually went to the hearings.
It seems like it was just an attempt to shoe-horn airguns into existing legislation without too much bother. Now we add airguns to firearms, black powder, archery and crossbows.
The existing rules for game animals was simply stated as "any centerfire". So something like a 32-20 Winchester, also known as .32 WCF (Winchester center fire) could be used. The 32-20 is about 215 FPE (292 joules)
I think that rule was made long ago to prevent 22LR from being used for deer.
Keep in mind that legislators, and the interns who actually draft the language of the law may have little to no knowledge of hunting.
I recall that there was a hunt organized to demonstrate the effectiveness of airguns by hunting pigs, which are considered pest animals. Someone came with a 30 caliber springer that only wounded a pig and that only angered the lawmaker.
No, with respect, that isn’t what happened at all. I remember the testimony. There was no .30 springer involved that was mentioned. Supposedly some rancher hosted a PCP hog hunt with all manner of big bores including .45s and described all sorts of wounded pig carn-agewith a range of guns we would all recognize as being adequate if not overkill for hogs. In listening to the testimony, it was likely exaggerated to the point of being fabricated. The witness was the rancher’s guide and he sounded as sleezy as he could be. They obviously just had an anti-airgun agenda, and none of it had to do with deer anyhow or would have been effected by the change in regulations because hogs were already fully open to airguns and the new regs didn’t change how hogs could be hunted.
Let me put it this way. As having over a decade’s experience as a trial attorney and after have won many dozens of jury trials, if that ranch hand would have been my star witness for trial, I would have dumped the case. He presented as a total sleezebag and any experienced airgun hog hunter on this forum who listened to his testimony would have found it to be a load a bunk. The rancher really sounded like Boss Hog and the guide like Rosco. It was Southern good’ol boy politics at its worst.
But the real issue wasn’t just some rich rancher who had the back-door ear of one of the commissioners. You had a minority of airguns writing and calling in saying “dang right that ain’t enough gun for deer hunting.” And so it gave the anti-airgunners something to latch on to. That’s my biggest beef with how it played out.
You can tell even on forums that there's airgunners that just because they view airgunning as a .17 .22 only thing and know nothing of how efficient actual bigger bores are just keep trying put them down out of basically pure ignorance.
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I hope that Thurmond of T3P Ranch can respond to this, he followed it closely and actually went to the hearings.
It seems like it was just an attempt to shoe-horn airguns into existing legislation without too much bother. Now we add airguns to firearms, black powder, archery and crossbows.
The existing rules for game animals was simply stated as "any centerfire". So something like a 32-20 Winchester, also known as .32 WCF (Winchester center fire) could be used. The 32-20 is about 215 FPE (292 joules)
I think that rule was made long ago to prevent 22LR from being used for deer.
Keep in mind that legislators, and the interns who actually draft the language of the law may have little to no knowledge of hunting.
I recall that there was a hunt organized to demonstrate the effectiveness of airguns by hunting pigs, which are considered pest animals. Someone came with a 30 caliber springer that only wounded a pig and that only angered the lawmaker.
No, with respect, that isn’t what happened at all. I remember the testimony. There was no .30 springer involved that was mentioned. Supposedly some rancher hosted a PCP hog hunt with all manner of big bores including .45s and described all sorts of wounded pig carn-agewith a range of guns we would all recognize as being adequate if not overkill for hogs. In listening to the testimony, it was likely exaggerated to the point of being fabricated. The witness was the rancher’s guide and he sounded as sleezy as he could be. They obviously just had an anti-airgun agenda, and none of it had to do with deer anyhow or would have been effected by the change in regulations because hogs were already fully open to airguns and the new regs didn’t change how hogs could be hunted.
Let me put it this way. As having over a decade’s experience as a trial attorney and after have won many dozens of jury trials, if that ranch hand would have been my star witness for trial, I would have dumped the case. He presented as a total sleezebag and any experienced airgun hog hunter on this forum who listened to his testimony would have found it to be a load a bunk. The rancher really sounded like Boss Hog and the guide like Rosco. It was Southern good’ol boy politics at its worst.
But the real issue wasn’t just some rich rancher who had the back-door ear of one of the commissioners. You had a minority of airguns writing and calling in saying “dang right that ain’t enough gun for deer hunting.” And so it gave the anti-airgunners something to latch on to. That’s my biggest beef with how it played out.
Travis nailed it on the nose. It was a bunch of politics started over a hunt of non-game pest animals aka feral hogs by out of state hunters and had no bearing whatsoever on game animals. The Hammer crowd was at the meeting too talking about killing Cape Buffalo with the mighty hammer. Psssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhht! It was a basic dog and pony show but at least we got the rule reinstated after the "famous or is that infamous HOG TRAPPER" killed it AFTER it had passed the first time.
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Thank you Thurmond for representing real airgun enthusiasts, and thank you for responding to this thread.
Do you think that the new airgun rules are just?
I really would have liked to have attended the meeting. I listened to the meeting online, but it's not the same as being there. I don't have big bore experience, and a 7 hour drive each way, I just couldn't make it.
Hunter
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The original rule was just fine without any of the dual ft-lb / caliber minimum rules.
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I don't know the original rule.
Hunter
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I don't know the original rule.
Hunter
.30 and up for deer. Possibly .20 and up for turkey but don’t quote me on that. No FPE minimum. Generally mimicking Alabama and Florida’s rule (and now Georgia’s).
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I could see it going back to that because law enforcement must have a method to verify that the hunters equipment is compliant. If they don't have that then the law is unenforceable. If the game wardens need to buy muzzle speed meters, with traceable calibration certification then it becomes a matter of economics.
Hunter
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I am missing something here, where do you see that furbearers can only be taken with .215fpe airguns?
From Texas Means and Methods:
Air Guns and Arrow Guns
Alligator, game animals, furbearers, squirrels, and non-migratory game birds (except Eastern Turkey) may be hunted with air guns and arrow guns provided:
1. alligators, bighorn sheep, javelina, mule deer, white-tailed deer, pronghorn, and turkey (except Eastern Turkey) may be taken only with pre-charged pneumatic arrow guns, or pre-charged pneumatic air guns.
a. pre-charged pneumatic air guns must fire a projectile of at least .30 caliber in diameter and at least 150 grains in weight with a minimum muzzle velocity of 800 feet per second or any combination of bullet weight and muzzle velocity that produces muzzle energy of at least 215 foot pounds of energy.
2.squirrels, pheasant, quail, and chachalaca may be hunted with air guns that fire a projectile of at least .177 caliber (4.5mm) in diameter producing a muzzle velocity of at least 600 feet per second.
3.arrows or bolts used with an arrow gun must conform to the same standards for projectiles for archery.
arrow guns may not be used to hunt deer or turkey during archery season.
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Look up the regs for nongame, non protected species. All varmints fall into that category.
For varmint hunting in Texas (from collared doves to feral pigs) I am pretty sure that you can use “ANY MEANS OR METHODS”.
Only big game species requires the 215 fpe/30 cal minimum. Turkeys and peccaries just happen to fall into the big game category.
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There ya go Ken, get out your airgun.
Sometimes the hunting and fishing laws are kinda confusing to me.
Hunter
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Also I feel that a 215 fpe and 30 cal minimum for deer is pretty dang conservative. If you step up to 45 or 50 cal there are plenty of economical options that make 215 fpe. To include the best known Korean single shots. It’s like the law was set there just so you could use the light hunter and dragon claw, but allowed 30 caliber so you can use the Air Force Texan and other really hard hitting .30 caliber guns.
Not every Joe Schmoe that steps into the woods fully understands the need for a perfect broadside shot in the ribs to kill with an air rifle.
Ever heard of a “Texas heart shot”? I would not attempt that shot with the most powerful PCP rifle on the market.
The vast majority of Texas hunters don’t believe in head shooting anything. Head movement and the potential to blow off a jaw or something makes it too worrisome. So for CNS shots a typical Texas hunter uses neck or high shoulder shot. That high shoulder shot being the most common of all on deer. I would never expect anything short of a .243 Winchester in both velocity AND energy to make it a high percentage kill shot.
I don’t know if an airgun has been built that can consistently anchor deer sized game with a high shoulder shot. It’s either DRT or it’s long gone.
As far as personal beliefs, there are a lot of hunters in Texas that use 5.56 FMJ on pigs (because it is the cheapest and they have no respect for pigs) and a whole lot of hog doggers too. I imagine most big bores with a good heavy slug would be a more humane option for pigs than either of those.
ANYWAY my point being, the 30 cal/215 fpe rules are for what is classified as “big game” in Texas.
For exotics and varmints you can use just about anything that will kill them.
Here is a fun fact- Elk are considered exotic species in Texas. They have been considered extirpated for a long time. They have been taken on Texas ranches with just a .30 cal FX air rifle... I know FX are not powerhouses.
At the same time there are elk herds in New Mexico that range deep into West Texas regularly.
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I found it on the website under Texas Fur-bearing Means and Methods. I wonder if it is actually written in the code or this is a someones interpretation?
https://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outdoor-annual/hunting/fur-bearing-animal-regulations/means-methods
Fur-thermore, pun intended, the regs add this:
Landowners or their agents may take nuisance fur-bearing animals in any number by any means at any time on that person's land without the need for a hunting or trapping license. However, fur-bearing animals or their pelts taken for these purposes may not be retained or possessed by anyone at any time except licensed trappers during the lawful open season and possession periods.
So the above .30 cal limit is only limited to Fur Traders from my understanding.
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Ok minimum .30 cal for fur bearers.
Before this caveat I believe that fur bearers were Not yet airgun legal in Texas.
Thanks for pointing that out.
FYI fur bearers are a separate category from the nongame non protected species. Just because it has fur does not make it a fur bearer
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I had previously posted that I looked at the administrative code, which is the actual regs, and it appears all furbearers require .30 or up. Which seems to include coons and muskrats.
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In fact the closest to a Varmint I can think of in the list of fur bearers is the raccoon. Possums skunks coyotes etc any means or methods
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All of that being said, I’m not sure that the 215fpe rule applies to furbearers in Texas. As I look at the Texas administrative code, it looks like the rule is that an airgun used to harvest furbearers must be .30 or larger. I don’t see where the FPE rule applies.
I presume coons and muskrats are furbearers and not game animals in Texas? The 215fpe rule applies to game animals. Such as turkeys (where it is demonstrated to be ridiculous).
No such caliber rules apply to hunting furbearers in Texas with firearms. The .30 rule was written specifically for airguns. So it cannot be said to be a leftover of an earlier rule.
See above.
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I had previously posted that I looked at the administrative code, which is the actual regs, and it appears all furbearers require .30 or up. Which seems to include coons and muskrats.
Only if your a Fur Trader. Nuisance fur-bearing animals can be taken by any means. You just can't sell the pelts.
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No I believe that the 30 cal minimum is across the board for fur bearers. Again, not all furry animals are “fur bearers”.
Also consider the difference between raccoon hunting or dispatching a nuisance.
If you are in the woods hinting raccoons with a air rifle it better be .30 cal or above. Regardless if you are a fur trader.
Dispatching a nuisance in your garden or trash is a different subject. It is not even hunting, by the law.
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Travis my man I owe you and many other an apology.
Here is a link to fur bearers regs straight from TPWD:
https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_br_w7000_0065.pdf
Here is the definition of for bearer according to TPWD:
“Fur-bearing animals: badgers, beavers, fox, mink, muskrat, nutria, opossum, otters, raccoons, ring- tailed cats, skunks.”
Nuisance fur bearers regs:
“Landowners or their agents may take nuisance fur-bearing animals in any number by any means at any time on that person’s land without the need for a hunting or trapping license. However, fur-bearing animals or their pelts taken for these purposes may not be retained or possessed by anyone at any time except licensed trappers during the lawful open season and possession periods.“
Even for nutria! A nuisance by any definition in Texas.
No mention of air powered weapons anywhere in these regs. You must find them under the regular hunting regs.
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Travis my man I owe you and many other an apology.
Here is a link to fur bearers regs straight from TPWD:
https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_br_w7000_0065.pdf
Here is the definition of for bearer according to TPWD:
“Fur-bearing animals: badgers, beavers, fox, mink, muskrat, nutria, opossum, otters, raccoons, ring- tailed cats, skunks.”
Nuisance fur bearers regs:
“Landowners or their agents may take nuisance fur-bearing animals in any number by any means at any time on that person’s land without the need for a hunting or trapping license. However, fur-bearing animals or their pelts taken for these purposes may not be retained or possessed by anyone at any time except licensed trappers during the lawful open season and possession periods.“
Even for nutria! A nuisance by any definition in Texas.
No mention of air powered weapons anywhere in these regs. You must find them under the regular hunting regs.
Apology for what? I take what you’re saying to be the correct interpretation of Texas law. For general sport hunting, .30 and up for furbearers. No FPE minimum. For nuisance furbearers, any means may be used by the landowner or his agent. “Any means“ should include any air rifle. You just can’t keep the animal if out of season.
So if you are deer hunting on the lease and you decided to pop a coon with your air rifle, it better be a .30 you use if its not a legitimate nuisance and you aren’t the landowner’s agent. If the coon is raiding your chicken coop on your land behind the house, you can break out the .25 Condor. That’s the way I take the regs.
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Apology for my soapbox, lol.
Also apology for rolling my eyes when I just saw nutria on the furbearers list.
If you only knew the hassle we have had with the nutria at my mom’s place.
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My interpretation of a nuisance racoon is one within 50 yards of my deer feeder. Matter of fact anything on that list is a nuisance in my book.
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Coons will take a deer feeder over completely and run everything else off. I think raccoons or anything else unwelcome near the feeder is well covered in the regs.
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So reading through this, I'm imagining my Pitbull which will sling a 108gr HP slug at 952FPS.
What exactly is going to happen to that raccoon if I nail him with one of those? :o
Isn't that a tad...overkill?
Lol...then again, I was searching for a 400FPE rifle to take out some turtles, so I really shouldn't talk.
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Not overkill at all. Huge gap between “enough” and overkill.
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We had this 'overkill' discussion a LONG time ago. If you are trying to dispatch an animal for meat or hide/fur, then there is a possibility of too much damage.
On the other hand, if the desired result is removal of a pest, then dead is dead, whatever FPE one uses. (You might even try dynamite to get that job done.)
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Yes, exactly what I'm shooting for. Perfect pun.