GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: mtsheron70 on July 11, 2020, 09:57:42 PM
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I have done a internet search and looked for when Benjamin began the second generation of the M-Rod. Anyone can definitely state and what were the changes?
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@ 4 years ago or so best i recall
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@ 4 years ago or so best i recall
Thank you. Any idea the changes they made to make it a Gen 2?
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Different stock, including choice between wood and synthetic.
Different trigger assembly
Bolt can be switched to left hand side.
Different breech design.
Different baffle design in shroud.
There may have been some valve design changes, but gen1 and gen2 valves are interchangeable.
Different trigger guard shape.
Rear air tube cap is completely different.
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From the Pyramyd Air site:
Upgrades from the original version of the gun: Factory-installed depinger changes the sharp "ping" to a dull thud. Improved valve (increases the number of shots: .177/.22=32 shots, .25=16 shots). Trigger moved back for better hand position. Optional reversible bolt for left- or right-handed shooters. Simplified breech design for assembly, service and to provide a more stable platform for larger scopes.
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From Crosman
https://www.crosman.com/discover/airguns/airgun-innovation (https://www.crosman.com/discover/airguns/airgun-innovation)
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The Gen 2 came out in 2013 according to Crosman Parts lists and files. The Gen 1 valve will not fit a Gen 2 unless you cut a channel or drill depressions for the trigger screws. Pics, Gen1 left, Gen2 right. Most of the trigger parts are interchangeable but the sears are different because the trigger location was slightly changed.
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Like the idea of keeping the chronology of a popular airgun....something that "we"don't really do well even with all the information scattered around here and there.
But it really boils down to what the ened users actually found to be "better"and not the marketing.
So a search though the posts of that time,with onwers wondering if they should "up grade"to the new versions, is probably the mother load of the data mine.
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Memory fragment:
First year of the Gen I, there was a trigger breakage problem.....they had an "almost recall" (don't think it every got to that status,but they did offer to up grade).
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Different stock, including choice between wood and synthetic.
Different trigger assembly
Bolt can be switched to left hand side.
Different breech design.
Different baffle design in shroud.
There may have been some valve design changes, but gen1 and gen2 valves are interchangeable.
Different trigger guard shape.
Rear air tube cap is completely different.
Thank you sir.
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From the Pyramyd Air site:
Upgrades from the original version of the gun: Factory-installed depinger changes the sharp "ping" to a dull thud. Improved valve (increases the number of shots: .177/.22=32 shots, .25=16 shots). Trigger moved back for better hand position. Optional reversible bolt for left- or right-handed shooters. Simplified breech design for assembly, service and to provide a more stable platform for larger scopes.
Thank you for the link. You must be cyclist with that screen name....LOL. I too road bike. Trek Madone carbon with SRAM Force/RED throughout and Fulcrum wheels.
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Like the idea of keeping the chronology of a popular airgun....something that "we"don't really do well even with all the information scattered around here and there.
But it really boils down to what the ened users actually found to be "better"and not the marketing.
So a search though the posts of that time,with onwers wondering if they should "up grade"to the new versions, is probably the mother load of the data mine.
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Memory fragment:
First year of the Gen I, there was a trigger breakage problem.....they had an "almost recall" (don't think it every got to that status,but they did offer to up grade).
True.
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From Crosman
https://www.crosman.com/discover/airguns/airgun-innovation (https://www.crosman.com/discover/airguns/airgun-innovation)
Thanks for the link.
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The Gen 2 came out in 2013 according to Crosman Parts lists and files. The Gen 1 valve will not fit a Gen 2 unless you cut a channel or drill depressions for the trigger screws. Pics, Gen1 left, Gen2 right. Most of the trigger parts are interchangeable but the sears are different because the trigger location was slightly changed.
There is a difference in those two for sure.
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The breech blocks are very different, as necessitated by the change to the bolt that allows for easy swap form RH to LH operation (easy, but disassembly of the upper is required). The leads to different pros and cons for both designs.
The Gen I has a three screw mount, and Gen I is 4 screws (two at the rear of the block, vs, 1 at the rear on Gen I). To get that rear screw out on Gen I, you have to remove a small cap (puts pressure on the bolt) and the bolt too - not a big deal, but annoying if all you want to do is get to the hammer retention screw.
On the plus side for the Gen I breech and bolt system, you can easily remove the bolt and then have straight access thru the bore for a rod or anything. Of course the plus side on the Gen II is the easy LH operation (if that applies to you) and arguably better mounting of the breech block to the tube.
One other difference between them not listed is the rear tube cap is different. I personally like the one on the Gen I better as it is a nice flat and comfortable place to put your thumb for good leverage while cocking the gun.
The Gen II has much better ergonomics than Gen I (stock wrist to trigger position) but many of us Gen I shooters that really cared "fixed" that with a Boyd's stock.
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The breech blocks are very different, as necessitated by the change to the bolt that allows for easy swap form RH to LH operation (easy, but disassembly of the upper is required). The leads to different pros and cons for both designs.
The Gen I has a three screw mount, and Gen I is 4 screws (two at the rear of the block, vs, 1 at the rear on Gen I). To get that rear screw out on Gen I, you have to remove a small cap (puts pressure on the bolt) and the bolt too - not a big deal, but annoying if all you want to do is get to the hammer retention screw.
On the plus side for the Gen I breech and bolt system, you can easily remove the bolt and then have straight access thru the bore for a rod or anything. Of course the plus side on the Gen II is the easy LH operation (if that applies to you) and arguably better mounting of the breech block to the tube.
One other difference between them not listed is the rear tube cap is different. I personally like the one on the Gen I better as it is a nice flat and comfortable place to put your thumb for good leverage while cocking the gun.
The Gen II has much better ergonomics than Gen I (stock wrist to trigger position) but many of us Gen I shooters that really cared "fixed" that with a Boyd's stock.
Thank you much for the information.
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There are differences on the inside of the valve also... https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=109507.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=109507.0)
Scott usually knows his stuff...probably did not look at notes this time...I knew it had to be at least 5 years... I have two .25 mrods... one is 4/15 other is 6/16... Both are Gen II and GM barrels... now we just need to find out exactly when they went to the in house barrels rather than imports(.177& .22) and Green Mountain(.25)...
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Both my Gen 2s were dated 2012. Released in early 2013.
Bob
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The use of Green Mountain .25 cal barrels for Mrods and Armadas stopped some time around the end of 2018.
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How would one know what barrel is on his Marauder .25?
(Not that it makes much difference because the one I have is deadly.)
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The GM had an indent on the muzzle end. At least mine did on the 25.
Bob
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Thanks, Bob. I am going to check mine tonight.
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Green Mountain Has 10 lands and grooves...Crosman 6 and is supposed to be slower twist...
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Thanks, Bob. I am going to check mine tonight.
When I say indent it looks like someone slid a barrel inside a shroud and he is right about the lands and grooves being 10.
Bob
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Green Mountain Has 10 lands and grooves...Crosman 6 and is supposed to be slower twist...
+1 to K.O., yup 10 as opposed to 6.
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Have read of being a tighter choke but know no specific diam mentioned...For that matter bore and groove specs...
the new .22 barrel available in the custom shop they say is 20 twist and not choked..
back when Bob was designing the BBT .25 40g for Mrod and L.W. I said that the G.M. barrels on mine were .250 bore and .252 groove...I think nobody else spoke up...well I now think I was close to right but think the bore is closer to .2497+ and.2498 and .252 groove... the choke on one seems to be .2493-.2494 ish what I was calling .2495 back then... the other seems to be choked to ~.2488... would love to know how they are choked...The L.W. choked section shows a tapered O.D. indicating it is a swaged choke... while the GM the O.D. stays parallel... The .2488 barrel likes lubed H&N Grizzly... the .2493 choked barrel does not... the Grizzly mic to .2495... So there does seem to be some variation over the two years... probably two different buttons at different life/wear..?
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Do these pictures help to determine what manufacturer made this barrel?
My eyesight is not good enough to be able to count lands and grooves.
But I would like to know which barrel this one is.
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Bicycleman,
Hard to tell without removing the air stripper/shroud spacer. You can ‘slug’ the barrel and count the lands and grooves.
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That is an 'Ah Ha" moment. Thanks Dennis.
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And while you have it off, you could drill out those vent holes in the mount a bit and the gun will be noticeably quieter . . .
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I just shoot a pellet into a bucket of water.
I can count grooves this way. I can measure the size, but not very well.
Hunter
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And while you have it off, you could drill out those vent holes in the mount a bit and the gun will be noticeably quieter . . .
Do you mean the holes visible in that last picture???? What diameter would you drill them?
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3/16 is a goo number at an angle down. Be easy as they are hard to come by.
Bob
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On a previous thread, someone had mentioned something about drilling some holes at the other end of the shroud. Anyone here actually try that?
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On a previous thread, someone had mentioned something about drilling some holes at the other end of the shroud. Anyone here actually try that?
Yes sir did all mine years ago.more air flow down shroud. less noise
Bob
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Good to know, Bob.
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I forgot... here is a thread about the new Barrels... and a pic of the lands and grooves that I snagged from it...reply # 68...
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=159630.60 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=159630.60)
pic is thru an optical comparator... can see the bore is about .250 and groove is about .254 and bore groove ratio is about 25/75 on the new Crosman barrels... The Green Mountain Barrel bore groove ratio is more like 50/50...Mrod .25 G.M. muzzle pic in this thread reply # 79... also muzzle pic of an XL 725 barrel (not choked)...
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110616.60 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=110616.60)
differences with slugs can be more significant than pellets IMHO...