GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Vintage Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: 45flint on July 01, 2020, 02:00:21 PM
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Have had fun comparing a 1920’s Crosman 101 to the 1949 Kringle paint arguably the last one. The 1920’s rifle has more of a hand made feel probably cause there was more hand labor in it. By 1949 Merz had modernize production. It is arguably a better rifle but does lack some of the grace of the early ones. Going into the 1930s the receiver was beefed up the barrel is higher off the tube. The final touch was the Diablo cocking knob at the end of production. 25 years.
https://imgur.com/gallery/CqwB1GW (https://imgur.com/gallery/CqwB1GW)
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Steve
when in the 1930's did they raise the barrel ?
i have an early with the barrel down close to the tube
(http://gunnutt.com/antique/101/002_5802.JPG)
and taking a knurled knob off a later early gun the early knurled bolt will not fit,
maybe there was knurled bolts later also ?
(http://gunnutt.com/antique/101/002_5804.JPG)
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The changed around 1929-30. Yours the earlier one and your bolt will fit, it’s just a close fit but will ride above that cocking tube. Cock it and pull the tube down a little. Mine touches, maybe that’s why they moved the barrel up! Lol
(https://i.imgur.com/RXjuKE4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kbJiCB8.jpg)
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An interesting comparison! I love comparing and contrasting and seeing the design progression of things.
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Steve
when in the 1930's did they raise the barrel ?
i have an early with the barrel down close to the tube
(http://gunnutt.com/antique/101/002_5802.JPG)
and taking a knurled knob off a later early gun the early knurled bolt will not fit,
maybe there was knurled bolts later also ?
(http://gunnutt.com/antique/101/002_5804.JPG)
It’s possible some of your parts aren’t original to the rifle. You may have to hand fit the bolt by filing off some of the excess that’s binding it on the tube?
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it did not take much fileing to get it to fit
now i need to find an early small knurled hammer
prev owner had changed it to 2nd series along with the bolt
(http://gunnutt.com/antique/101/002-early-101_5806.JPG)
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it did not take much fileing to get it to fit
now i need to find an early small knurled hammer
prev owner had changed it to 2nd series along with the bolt
(http://gunnutt.com/antique/101/002-early-101_5806.JPG)
Funny I need that cocking knob to bring my 102 back to standard! Lol. Here is a repro of the one you need:
https://www.jgairguns.biz/100-and-101-pump-rifles-c-78_89_95/crs101a045-cocking-knob-p-14551.html] [url]https://www.jgairguns.biz/100-and-101-pump-rifles-c-78_89_95/crs101a045-cocking-knob-p-14551.html (http://[url)[/url]
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Steve
when in the 1930's did they raise the barrel ?
i have an early with the barrel down close to the tube
(http://gunnutt.com/antique/101/002_5802.JPG)
strever,
If that is a "C" prefix on your rifle then it should have a short tapered ball, not a knurled bolt handle. That is if you are going back with original parts.
Also, from my notes, the barrels weren't raised on the single shots till the "T" series came out in the mid 40's. Those were the receivers with the cast in pellet logos.
The repeaters had a higher lift since their inception in 1929.
Here is the difference between the knurled, short tapered ball and long tapered ball.
Steven
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Steve
when in the 1930's did they raise the barrel ?
i have an early with the barrel down close to the tube
(http://gunnutt.com/antique/101/002_5802.JPG)
strever,
If that is a "C" prefix on your rifle then it should have a short tapered ball, not a knurled bolt handle. That is if you are going back with original parts.
Also, from my notes, the barrels weren't raised on the single shots till the "T" series came out in the mid 40's. Those were the receivers with the cast in pellet logos.
The repeaters had a higher lift since their inception in 1929.
Here is the difference between the knurled, short tapered ball and long tapered ball.
Steven
Good point on the higher barrel I’ve only had 1949 101s and a 1930’s 102 so I was not versed on the change in the 101’s, was thinking about my 102, assumed they all changed? Not quite so tidy in the Crosman world knurled bolt handles were known in the C prefix, I have one. There is another on this log. Yes you can say it’s not original but mine sure looks that way?
https://i.imgur.com/vEhg67P.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/vEhg67P.jpg)
https://imgur.com/gallery/0Y3Ildf (https://imgur.com/gallery/0Y3Ildf)
What constitutes a T Series? Never hear the term?
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Steve
when in the 1930's did they raise the barrel ?
i have an early with the barrel down close to the tube
(http://gunnutt.com/antique/101/002_5802.JPG)
strever,
If that is a "C" prefix on your rifle then it should have a short tapered ball, not a knurled bolt handle. That is if you are going back with original parts.
Also, from my notes, the barrels weren't raised on the single shots till the "T" series came out in the mid 40's. Those were the receivers with the cast in pellet logos.
The repeaters had a higher lift since their inception in 1929.
Here is the difference between the knurled, short tapered ball and long tapered ball.
Steven
Good point on the higher barrel I’ve only had 1949 101s and a 1930’s 102 so I was not versed on the change in the 101’s, was thinking about my 102, assumed they all changed? Not quite so tidy in the Crosman world knurled bolt handles were known in the C prefix, I have one. There is another on this log. Yes you can say it’s not original but mine sure looks that way?
What constitutes a T Series? Never hear the term?
That chart is older. The updated chart shows predominately more tapered balls than knurled bolt handles on the "C" series. There is only a minute chance the transition happened early on in the "C" series. Dicks rifle has the wrong hammer knob; plus, if i read it correctly, he mentions the bolt is from another rifle and does not fit. That is why he filed it. There are a couple knurls on the chart with higher numbers, one of which is yours. The other rifle(C8344) with knurled knob looks to be a homemade job. I chart what I see and anything that doesn't fit gets a question mark. That rifle also has a homemade peep sight on it. So it most likely was born with a short tapered ball handle.
C4799 with knurl bolt is from a description with no photo, which I now question as an original part.
That pretty much leaves your C8569 rifle with a knurled bolt. Kind of an orphan among tapered bolts.
The "T" prefix rifles appear to be the first production run of the Early Pellet Logo rifles.
As always this info is subject to change.
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Steve
when in the 1930's did they raise the barrel ?
i have an early with the barrel down close to the tube
(http://gunnutt.com/antique/101/002_5802.JPG)
strever,
If that is a "C" prefix on your rifle then it should have a short tapered ball, not a knurled bolt handle. That is if you are going back with original parts.
Also, from my notes, the barrels weren't raised on the single shots till the "T" series came out in the mid 40's. Those were the receivers with the cast in pellet logos.
The repeaters had a higher lift since their inception in 1929.
Here is the difference between the knurled, short tapered ball and long tapered ball.
Steven
Good point on the higher barrel I’ve only had 1949 101s and a 1930’s 102 so I was not versed on the change in the 101’s, was thinking about my 102, assumed they all changed? Not quite so tidy in the Crosman world knurled bolt handles were known in the C prefix, I have one. There is another on this log. Yes you can say it’s not original but mine sure looks that way?
What constitutes a T Series? Never hear the term?
That chart is older. The updated chart shows predominately more tapered balls than knurled bolt handles on the "C" series. There is only a minute chance the transition happened early on in the "C" series. Dicks rifle has the wrong hammer knob; plus, if i read it correctly, he mentions the bolt is from another rifle and does not fit. That is why he filed it. There are a couple knurls on the chart with higher numbers, one of which is yours. The other rifle(C8344) with knurled knob looks to be a homemade job. I chart what I see and anything that doesn't fit gets a question mark. That rifle also has a homemade peep sight on it. So it most likely was born with a short tapered ball handle.
C4799 with knurl bolt is from a description with no photo, which I now question as an original part.
That pretty much leaves your C8569 rifle with a knurled bolt. Kind of an orphan among tapered bolts.
The "T" prefix rifles appear to be the first production run of the Early Pellet Logo rifles.
As always this info is subject to change.
Thanks for the info, sure makes the odds mine is a replacement or just real odd ball. In 90 years a lot can happen! I assume you think these are sequential serial numbers so there are 8500 rifles built before mine. If true if you get a fairly good sampling you could possibly estimate total production of the early 101’s. Something that I’ve wondered about since collecting?
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It would be good to keep in mind that Myron Kasock [Steve noted this Fletcher 101 came from the 2003 RIA auction] was known to frequently make one good airgun from multiple parts-guns. He also was not reluctant to refinish stuff. Back 20 or 30 years ago, originality wasn't as highly revered as today.
Don R.
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It would be good to keep in mind that Myron Kasock [Steve noted this Fletcher 101 came from the 2003 RIA auction] was known to frequently make one good airgun from multiple parts-guns. He also was not reluctant to refinish stuff. Back 20 or 30 years ago, originality wasn't as highly revered as today.
Don R.
I hope that we get through this Pandemic and we can met again at a Airgun Show and you can look at it and give me your opinion. I remember what Tom Gaylord said of 101’s they are like the M1 Garrand you never really know if you have an original! Parts got changed all the time. I do remember stories prices realized at the auction were sometimes disappointing to the family but many things were refinished.
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Steven
is this Chart available for us to look at ?
That chart is older. The updated chart shows predominately more tapered balls than knurled bolt handles on the "C" series. There is only a minute chance the transition happened early on in the "C" series. Dicks rifle has the wrong hammer knob; plus, if i read it correctly, he mentions the bolt is from another rifle and does not fit. That is why he filed it. There are a couple knurls on the chart with higher numbers, one of which is yours. The other rifle(C8344) with knurled knob looks to be a homemade job. I chart what I see and anything that doesn't fit gets a question mark. That rifle also has a homemade peep sight on it. So it most likely was born with a short tapered ball handle.
C4799 with knurl bolt is from a description with no photo, which I now question as an original part.
That pretty much leaves your C8569 rifle with a knurled bolt. Kind of an orphan among tapered bolts.
The "T" prefix rifles appear to be the first production run of the Early Pellet Logo rifles.
As always this info is subject to change.
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(Not so)Old thread resurrection. (8 Months)
I am awaiting delivery of a 101.
Serial Number 1177...Can someone help date it?
Most of the attached pics on this thread are not visible to me now.
I would like to restore it but was searching on Satin or Krinkle finish.
I may just polish the brass barrel and pump tube because the majority of the factory finish is gone... but what about the receiver, barrel band etc.?
I have satin black and krinkle black.
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More pics...
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Your attachment couldn't be saved. This might happen because it took too long to upload or the file is bigger than the server will allow.
Seriously? I have reduced the pics to 30%... I HATE my ISP!!!!
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Scott, your 101 is Post War-Circa 1946.....Factory used black satin lacquer during that time period but would look great wrinkle paint.
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Are those receivers made out of pot metal, like the old 760's?
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Thank you Steven!
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Are those receivers made out of pot metal, like the old 760's?
The receivers are a die cast zinc alloy. So yes.... pot metal