GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: desertplinker on June 23, 2020, 08:14:43 PM
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Was wondering if anyone has used HPA with a Fusion 2 as it will accept the 88 g Cylinders.
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I saw this one here > https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/umarex-fusion-2/ (https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/umarex-fusion-2/)
or you can also install a fill nipple on a 88gram and fill it around co2 max (<1500psi) with air.
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Leo
Thanks that is what I was thinking some kind of tether set up but I don't know much about paintball stuff like what type of fittings and size and that kind of stuff.
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I'd thought about it...but don't have one....just looking at pictures.
Looking at the few pictures of the Fusion II with 88gr. attached,amd thinking it won;'t be that easy.
Typical 88/90gr. AirSource tank is about 1.35" in diameter...and it comes pretty close to the barrel. Typical current 13CI HPA tank is more like 2.08" in diameter. So basically 1/4" fatter "up" and 1/4" fatter down.
So am thinking a straight line type of mount wouldn't quite fit. Would need to add a "drop down" type (QB79)tank block...add a stock cut/mod to deal with the low hanging fat tank.
Typical 88/90gr. type co2 tank is aboutn 8" long. Typical 13CI HPA tank(with regulator) is about 9 13/4" long....plus the screwed on adaptor to AirSoruse length....call it 10 1/2"....so the triangular LDC whould have to come off.
It's not made to come off.
Do think folks HAVE done an HPA tank mod....but it doesn't look like it's "plug and play".
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IVE used the 88 grams on some hpa projects , up to 2000 even.. 1800 is recommended.. a fill nipple installs nicely right at the end.. cheap , reliable , already threaded for the gun.. get this fill nipple , its already presprung inteernally , so ur all set
https://www.amazon.com/IORMAN-Universal-Quick-Disconnect-Paintball-Fittings/dp/B07HL1M8XQ/ref=sxts_sxwds-bia-wc-p13n1_0?cv_ct_cx=quick+disconnect+paintball&dchild=1&keywords=quick+disconnect+paintball&pd_rd_i=B07HL1M8XQ&pd_rd_r=3a42bdaf-d12b-4283-aa95-21819e24c7fc&pd_rd_w=tkhAW&pd_rd_wg=cX6Sv&pf_rd_p=1da5beeb-8f71-435c-b5c5-3279a6171294&pf_rd_r=AB3HGSF0KD3H41W8KFVR&psc=1&qid=1593023595&sr=1-1-70f7c15d-07d8-466a-b325-4be35d7258cc (https://www.amazon.com/IORMAN-Universal-Quick-Disconnect-Paintball-Fittings/dp/B07HL1M8XQ/ref=sxts_sxwds-bia-wc-p13n1_0?cv_ct_cx=quick+disconnect+paintball&dchild=1&keywords=quick+disconnect+paintball&pd_rd_i=B07HL1M8XQ&pd_rd_r=3a42bdaf-d12b-4283-aa95-21819e24c7fc&pd_rd_w=tkhAW&pd_rd_wg=cX6Sv&pf_rd_p=1da5beeb-8f71-435c-b5c5-3279a6171294&pf_rd_r=AB3HGSF0KD3H41W8KFVR&psc=1&qid=1593023595&sr=1-1-70f7c15d-07d8-466a-b325-4be35d7258cc)
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IVE used the 88 grams on some hpa projects , up to 2000 even.. 1800 is recommended.. a fill nipple installs nicely right at the end.. cheap , reliable , already threaded for the gun.. get this fill nipple , its already presprung inteernally , so ur all set
https://www.amazon.com/IORMAN-Universal-Quick-Disconnect-Paintball-Fittings/dp/B07HL1M8XQ/ref=sxts_sxwds-bia-wc-p13n1_0?cv_ct_cx=quick+disconnect+paintball&dchild=1&keywords=quick+disconnect+paintball&pd_rd_i=B07HL1M8XQ&pd_rd_r=3a42bdaf-d12b-4283-aa95-21819e24c7fc&pd_rd_w=tkhAW&pd_rd_wg=cX6Sv&pf_rd_p=1da5beeb-8f71-435c-b5c5-3279a6171294&pf_rd_r=AB3HGSF0KD3H41W8KFVR&psc=1&qid=1593023595&sr=1-1-70f7c15d-07d8-466a-b325-4be35d7258cc (https://www.amazon.com/IORMAN-Universal-Quick-Disconnect-Paintball-Fittings/dp/B07HL1M8XQ/ref=sxts_sxwds-bia-wc-p13n1_0?cv_ct_cx=quick+disconnect+paintball&dchild=1&keywords=quick+disconnect+paintball&pd_rd_i=B07HL1M8XQ&pd_rd_r=3a42bdaf-d12b-4283-aa95-21819e24c7fc&pd_rd_w=tkhAW&pd_rd_wg=cX6Sv&pf_rd_p=1da5beeb-8f71-435c-b5c5-3279a6171294&pf_rd_r=AB3HGSF0KD3H41W8KFVR&psc=1&qid=1593023595&sr=1-1-70f7c15d-07d8-466a-b325-4be35d7258cc)
I should not have said 88 gram what I need is a bulk fill adapter for the end cap where the two CO2 carts would go, is that what this is Rob? My plan is to tether a small paintball tank set for 800psi.
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next message sums up the misunderstanding
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ok back on track , you have a Fusion 2 , NOT an rws850-2 .. MY bad..
SO those tubes are essentually xisico xs60 tubes as i recall , with a different endplug..Off the top of my head , Im not sure the valve is sealed to the tube .. thats the first thing to find out.. If it is , You can do a bulk co2/hpa set up at the front nipple.. Generally , if it bleeds 2 co2 carts, that means the main airtube is sealed.. Meaning , all you would need is the fill nipple i mentioned for 8 dollars, and a way to drill and tap that front cap of the gun.
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if you add the fill nipple to the factory cap , you can no longer pierce the front co2.. SO youd really want a seperate bulk fill cap.. the fill pressure iis limited by the original intention of the airtube , which is about 1000 psi hpa.. ( co2 on a summer day _
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yes, I think same as QB CO2 rifles and yes the tube seals when you pierce the carts. They used to have a bulk fill adapter but no one seems to make them that I can find. I don't have the tools to drill and tap, would rather just buy a cap with nipple already installed.
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if you add the fill nipple to the factory cap , you can no longer pierce the front co2.. SO youd really want a seperate bulk fill cap.. the fill pressure iis limited by the original intention of the airtube , which is about 1000 psi hpa.. ( co2 on a summer day _
correct. My tank will be 800psi output max.
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https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=108845.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=108845.0)
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https://www.gmaccustomparts.com/epages/BT3197.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/BT3197/Products/001-0057 (https://www.gmaccustomparts.com/epages/BT3197.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/BT3197/Products/001-0057)
well those 2 links should solve it
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Dennis Baker AG has the fittings you need to go from 88gr to paint/ball regs BNA adapter 6 and one for the hammerli/ umarex 850 these converted my Umarex 850 to HPA
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Don't think there is enough room under the Fusion 2 barrel for the 850 type "straight line" set up to work....might be wrong, but sure doesn't look like it from the phots of ones set up on 88gr. tanks.
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If all you want is to tether..you can source all from ebay or amazon/ Just put the slide check the other way to make it work.
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I should have left the 88g out of the discussion. What I really need is the bulk fill cap on the end of the tube, forget the 88g, it's not in the equation, my fault.
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I want HPA in the entire tube kind of like a pre plenum. Someone posted on another forum running a tether tank right on the end of the entire tube and shot string was more consistent then on CO2.
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I want HPA in the entire tube kind of like a pre plenum. Someone posted on another forum running a tether tank right on the end of the entire tube and shot string was more consistent then on CO2.
the links above completely solve your issues gmac will likely be 20 sshipping
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I want HPA in the entire tube kind of like a pre plenum. Someone posted on another forum running a tether tank right on the end of the entire tube and shot string was more consistent then on CO2.
the links above completely solve your issues gmac will likely be 20 sshipping
I'm not opposed to buying stuff from across the pond but the description I read on their site is what you get you still need to drill out to attach the nipple. the one I see at GMAC that has the nipple says currently unavailable.
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I want HPA in the entire tube kind of like a pre plenum. Someone posted on another forum running a tether tank right on the end of the entire tube and shot string was more consistent then on CO2.
the links above completely solve your issues gmac will likely be 20 sshipping
I'm not opposed to buying stuff from across the pond but the description I read on their site is what you get you still need to drill out to attach the nipple. the one I see at GMAC that has the nipple says currently unavailable.
yea, the cap need to be drilled for the QB style cap.. so it is a bit of extra work..i dont think anyone makes a complete drop in anymore
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This solves your bulk fill cap or if you want you can extend the tube. Got the 8" extension and only fill the QB78D to 1100 psi for 12+ shots.
Here Bulk fill > http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/bulk-co2-adapter-p/m1baco2cr.htm (http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/bulk-co2-adapter-p/m1baco2cr.htm)
Extension > http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/crosman-co2-extension-tube-p/m1co2extube.htm (http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/crosman-co2-extension-tube-p/m1co2extube.htm)
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This solves your bulk fill cap or if you want you can extend the tube. Got the 8" extension and only fill the QB78D to 1100 psi for 12+ shots.
Here Bulk fill > http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/bulk-co2-adapter-p/m1baco2cr.htm (http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/bulk-co2-adapter-p/m1baco2cr.htm)
Extension > http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/crosman-co2-extension-tube-p/m1co2extube.htm (http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/crosman-co2-extension-tube-p/m1co2extube.htm)
Wow Leo you did some research today, I found that today also but kind of Pricey!
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This solves your bulk fill cap or if you want you can extend the tube. Got the 8" extension and only fill the QB78D to 1100 psi for 12+ shots.
Here Bulk fill > http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/bulk-co2-adapter-p/m1baco2cr.htm (http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/bulk-co2-adapter-p/m1baco2cr.htm)
Extension > http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/crosman-co2-extension-tube-p/m1co2extube.htm (http://www.mac1airgunshop.com/crosman-co2-extension-tube-p/m1co2extube.htm)
Wow Leo you did some research today, I found that today also but kind of Pricey!
Got those in 2009.
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found it
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its m22-1.0 , in case you need to hire someone to make one.,, google is great
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its m22-1.0 , in case you need to hire someone to make one.,, google is great
Good job Rob and thanks for the help. Just a heads up FYI the Canadian airgun forum store has them. Doesn't include the nipple but I don't think that will be a problem. They are about $35.00 or so shipped to USA. Has the threaded hole angled down where the nipple threads into.
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cool do you have a link to that
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cool do you have a link to that
https://www.airgunforum.ca/store/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=215 (https://www.airgunforum.ca/store/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=215)
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cool do you have a link to that
https://www.airgunforum.ca/store/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=215 (https://www.airgunforum.ca/store/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=215)
For piece of mind, measure where your bleed hole is on your tube and ask the seller if it will work on new or old qb78..There is a difference on the bleed hole placement. If you use the old cap it will leak and you'll have to get somebody machine a groove for another o ring.
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cool do you have a link to that
https://www.airgunforum.ca/store/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=215 (https://www.airgunforum.ca/store/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=215)
For piece of mind, measure where your bleed hole is on your tube and ask the seller if it will work on new or old qb78..There is a difference on the bleed hole placement. If you use the old cap it will leak and you'll have to get somebody machine a groove for another o ring.
boy am I messed up. Disregard everything I say. Apparently the Fusion 2 uses a different tube, because I have the Fusion 2 in front of me and the end of the tube has female threads. None of these caps for the QB will fit. Bogus !!!!
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so they changed the design completely for the new model ..can you post a picture of the cap for the tube ..
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this is the Fusion 2 cap on far left is just a rubber protector for the co2 piercer.
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If all you want is to tether..you can source all from ebay or amazon/ Just put the slide check the other way to make it work.
Dang Leo had it correct all along if I would have paid attention. Do you have links to those parts Leo?
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Here ya go...you might need to remove the stock to fit the air source fitting (88gram like the end of the OEM tube) with the ASA adaptor with the remote hose. Just unscrew the fill nipple from the ASA adaptor then swap it with the fitting from the remote on/off..so you'll end up with the slide check on the on/off remote. You can ask Rob M if he's still got the 88 gram mode with the fill nipple from his previous projects if i remember. If you can have one of those, all you need is the remote with slide to tether and you can even fill it to 1500 psi for 15 shots.
Here's the amazon links;
https://www.amazon.com/WTG-Straight-Remote-Paintball-Thick/dp/B07GGXYM7P/ref=sr_1_12?dchild=1&keywords=paintball+remote+with+slide&qid=1593138627&s=sporting-goods&sr=1-12 (https://www.amazon.com/WTG-Straight-Remote-Paintball-Thick/dp/B07GGXYM7P/ref=sr_1_12?dchild=1&keywords=paintball+remote+with+slide&qid=1593138627&s=sporting-goods&sr=1-12)
https://www.amazon.com/LETAOSK-Paintball-M16x1-5-Adapter-Pistol/dp/B083XWYF4T/ref=pd_di_v2_sccai_6/135-4382117-1226167?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B083XWYF4T&pd_rd_r=e4ca45fe-7844-4bf7-b618-e8bc35e8d6b3&pd_rd_w=0Y59n&pd_rd_wg=wrQo5&pf_rd_p=47579771-02b9-4db9-aad8-9d98476f87cf&pf_rd_r=XN6SYZQSS3Y9YBAFM12C&psc=1&refRID=XN6SYZQSS3Y9YBAFM12C (https://www.amazon.com/LETAOSK-Paintball-M16x1-5-Adapter-Pistol/dp/B083XWYF4T/ref=pd_di_v2_sccai_6/135-4382117-1226167?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B083XWYF4T&pd_rd_r=e4ca45fe-7844-4bf7-b618-e8bc35e8d6b3&pd_rd_w=0Y59n&pd_rd_wg=wrQo5&pf_rd_p=47579771-02b9-4db9-aad8-9d98476f87cf&pf_rd_r=XN6SYZQSS3Y9YBAFM12C&psc=1&refRID=XN6SYZQSS3Y9YBAFM12C)
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cool do you have a link to that
https://www.airgunforum.ca/store/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=215 (https://www.airgunforum.ca/store/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=215)
I was super excited to see this link because I need at least one more bulk fill adapter to two of my guns.
But... it shows price as $45 and $40 shipping. I only paid $85 each for my Fusions.
Thanks though.
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reading the replies, Im still not sure how this will attach to the internal M20 threads on the fusion rifle.. can someone explain
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Doesn't help when there is a Fusion anda Fusion 2 being sold.
Fusion runs like a QB78...the tube doesn't come off to fill it. HAs a different front end cap than the one shown for the Fusion 2. Fusion can use a QB78 bulk fill end cap. Could remove the Fusion's bleed screw, drill and tap that screw's hole for a fill nipple.
Fusion 2 is made to thread 88gr. into the frame. It comes with a 12gr. converter that also threads into the frame with the same 88gr. threads. Front cap of the 12gr.converter is different from the Fusion or the QB.
For the Fusion 2, could use the remote line and the adaptor shown by Leo ( Bentong). Silver 88 to paintball thread adaptor screws in where the 88gr. screws in, the fillnipple adaptor on the tethaer linescrews into the paintball threaded side of the adaptor, tether line hooks to that, and you run it from whatever sized tank of co2 or low pressure HPA you care to.
Agree it would be a bit of a PIA to get that adaptor firmly screwed in unless you took the stock off first.
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ok i wasnt aware that 88gram threads were on the gun at all.
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I am running around like a chicken with my head cut off. Really want to tether HPA right now as it is 100+ degrees right now and CO2 outdoors would be crazy. When it's 110 outside it's 100 in the garage. I already have or have ordered everything I need except the connection to the gun. Other option for me would be charging up the 88g cylinder which I am not too crazy about. Wonder if anyone makes a 88g cylinder made to charge with HPA? That will be my search for today. Some of you are more than welcome to come along for the ride I look forward to your comments.
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cool do you have a link to that
https://www.airgunforum.ca/store/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=215 (https://www.airgunforum.ca/store/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=215)
I was super excited to see this link because I need at least one more bulk fill adapter to two of my guns.
But... it shows price as $45 and $40 shipping. I only paid $85 each for my Fusions.
Thanks though.
Roy, I am trying to cancel my order for that part. If that cannot be done I will sell it to you at a reduced price rather than ship it back to Canada if you are still interested. The one who shall remain nameless that sold those adapters must have sold hundreds. There must be a few gathering dust in someone's parts bin.
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https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/refillable-88g-90g-airsource-cylinderie/ (https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/refillable-88g-90g-airsource-cylinderie/)
safe for HPA max output pressure 800psi?
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https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/refillable-88g-90g-airsource-cylinderie/ (https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/refillable-88g-90g-airsource-cylinderie/)
safe for HPA max output pressure 800psi? https://alliancehobby.com/88g.htm (https://alliancehobby.com/88g.htm)
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https://alliancehobby.com/88g.htm
website says max pressure 1200psi. I ordered one!!
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reading the replies, Im still not sure how this will attach to the internal M20 threads on the fusion rifle.. can someone explain
The original tube that holds 2 carts have an air source(88grm) is threaded for it already so it's 88 gram and tube ready when used. Here is the tube showing the thread.
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IF (and only if...which would be"iff") you take responsibility for any "oops...I killed the kids"
There is always a danger in DIY type stuff...reusing what was made to be disposable....or going out on a limb using any air rifle in ways there were unintended by the maker.
So past this point....if you damage yourself or others,will have to take the high-road and man up that YOU screwed up,not the makers of the stuff you used.
1. There were some Pin-Valve type conversions to AirSoruce....may still be for all I know. Could refill them as co2 tanks. MAYBE refill them as air tanks of the pressure was low enough(Lets say 1200-1500psi).
Would still be a "screw on/screw off" situation to fill and power up the rifle...which wouldn't be useful for tethering.
2. Can drill/tap the end of an empty 88gr. AirsSorcefor a foster(the round base is a bit thikcer than the sides).
From there could teather either a co2 tank or a lower pressure HPA tank to the foster fill nipple adapted 88gr.
3. OR could fill the 88gr. to something like 1200-1500psiand try it as a low-pressure PCP like tube.
Estamated by volume to wegiht of co2..came out with about 102CC's of internal volume in an an empty AirSrouce. Filling it carefully with water,came out with 106CC's.
(BTW...not that I injected than empty 88gr. 10 1/2 times with a graduated 10mm glass syringe,the water ain't coming back out that little hole).
LEts just call it 100CC's of volume inside that 88gr. AirSource.
1200-1500PSi air fill (if you dare to),could likely re-adust the rifle to work on that for 10-15 good shots (the FDPCP would work quite well with about the same volume and a 1200-1500psi fill...but it was made/adjustred for that). UNADJUSTED,likey 6-7 shots good shots.
BAsically,,,the logial safey minded side or me coming out...DO NOT.....it's the differce between "could"and "should".
A risk:benefit:cost analisis....buy an inexpensive rifle that does what you want to do.
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IF (and only if...which would be"iff") you take responsibility for any "oops...I killed the kids"
There is always a danger in DIY type stuff...reusing what was made to be disposable....or going out on a limb using any air rifle in ways there were unintended by the maker.
So past this point....if you damage yourself or others,will have to take the high-road and man up that YOU screwed up,not the makers of the stuff you used.
1. There were some Pin-Valve type conversions to AirSoruce....may still be for all I know. Could refill them as co2 tanks. MAYBE refill them as air tanks of the pressure was low enough(Lets say 1200-1500psi).
Would still be a "screw on/screw off" situation to fill and power up the rifle...which wouldn't be useful for tethering.
2. Can drill/tap the end of an empty 88gr. AirsSorcefor a foster(the round base is a bit thikcer than the sides).
From there could teather either a co2 tank or a lower pressure HPA tank to the foster fill nipple adapted 88gr.
3. OR could fill the 88gr. to something like 1200-1500psiand try it as a low-pressure PCP like tube.
Estamated by volume to wegiht of co2..came out with about 102CC's of internal volume in an an empty AirSrouce. Filling it carefully with water,came out with 106CC's.
(BTW...not that I injected than empty 88gr. 10 1/2 times with a graduated 10mm glass syringe,the water ain't coming back out that little hole).
LEts just call it 100CC's of volume inside that 88gr. AirSource.
1200-1500PSi air fill (if you dare to),could likely re-adust the rifle to work on that for 10-15 good shots (the FDPCP would work quite well with about the same volume and a 1200-1500psi fill...but it was made/adjustred for that). UNADJUSTED,likey 6-7 shots good shots.
BAsically,,,the logial safey minded side or me coming out...DO NOT.....it's the differce between "could"and "should".
A risk:benefit:cost analisis....buy an inexpensive rifle that does what you want to do.
I don't have any kids and if I blow myself up I will "man up" and let you know. Did you go to the alliance hobby website and look at the tank I just purchased?
https://alliancehobby.com/88g.htm
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I don't have any kids and if I blow myself up I will "man up" and let you know. Did you go to the alliance hobby website and look at the tank I just purchased?
https://alliancehobby.com/88g.htm
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Yeah..did....and if done carefully,should work safely.
From their ad:
"Having said that, the seller assumes no liability for injury, death or destruction during the use of the product. Purchase and use of the product absolves the seller from any liability, express or implied. You have been warned."
Which could be said for any factory PCP/Co2 rifle for that matter...problem being in pushing the design past it's stated limits, which is something folks here seem to do a lot.
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Contact Mike Mellick at Flying Dragon.
He cut an extra o-ring groove in my bulk fill cap so it works on both the XS60-C and my AR2078-B. (QB78 target gun)
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Contact Mike Mellick at Flying Dragon.
He cut an extra o-ring groove in my bulk fill cap so it works on both the XS60-C and my AR2078-B. (QB78 target gun)
The Fusion 2 doesn't use the same cap as the Fusion QBxx and all the others.
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Awww nuts!
Well, I guess I got nothin. ::)
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https://alliancehobby.com/88g.htm
website says max pressure 1200psi. I ordered one!!
awesome , that will work. ! ive filled those to 2k