GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Crosman Airguns => Topic started by: jlp920 on June 02, 2020, 07:59:57 PM
-
I actually bought one the other day then cancelled my order. under $200 for a 30 fpe break barrel in my favorite configuration (simple!) was (almost) too good to pass up. What I notice, however, is a serious dearth of actual hands-on reviews (other than the reviews found at the retailers sites). Can anyone weigh in on this beast? the sense I'm getting is...Trail NPXL power in a no-beeps and whistles format. If it's accurate and shoots well I may pull the trigger eventually. I like to see a little bit of buzz first though, and I see almost none.
-
Gander closing them out for $152.00 w/free shipping.
I woulda pulled the trigger if their 10% off offer didn't exclude this critter.
Vendors tick me off when they offer a discount, but doesn't apply to what I want.....
Oh,what the heck..............ordered one anyway..........
-
Oh shoot, yer gonna make me do it ;D
-
Oh shoot, yer gonna make me do it ;D
BANG !! ;)
-
I ordered one of these rifles from Gander about a month ago at the closeout price. They were showing several pellets in stock at really good prices so I ordered some of those, too. I've never ordered anything from Gander before and noted that their sign up process was quite mess, but clearly designed to harvest as much personal information as possible and to sign me up by default for all manner of email, promotional mailings, "partner offers" and the like, which was a real turn off. After working through all that, I completed the order and my CC was charged almost immediately. My order remained marked as "in process" until ten days later when I finally got through to customer service using their chat function (no luck with calls and email) and was told that every item on my order was backordered and they had no idea when any of it would be back in stock. I canceled the order, went through my email unsubscribing from everything I could, tagged all the emails as spam, and moved on with my life.
I was unable to find much in the way of reviews either, but what I did see suggested the rifle is indeed a simplified Trail NPXL. Should make for a decent rifle if you can actually lay hands on one of them.
-
Thanks for the heads up, Mr. John.
I may begin inquiring about inventory today.....
update...I called and talked to a gut who sounded as if he'd just woke up.......
I asked if he could check inventory,
He was very terse and grumpy......he huffed that it said showed as being in stock.
So, I related that I'd heard reports to the contrary, and asked if actual inventory could be verified.
He audibly HUFFED....and started in that it was a clearance item and...........
I wished him a nice day and ended the call.
VERY impressive customer service indeed !
-
They’re back in stock at Pyramyd, just $10 more. Just ordered one. And yeah, it was Gander that I first ordered from and then immediately cancelled. Glad I did, from what I’m hearing.
Just made room in the safe for it :-). Hopefully it’s a Crosman trigger and I can do the RC Bearing mod to it. That worked a treat in my Vantage.
-
VERY impressive customer service indeed !
I can see anyone having a bad day, missing a cue, shipping late or something else along those lines. When a company seems to do everything about an order wrong, I'll find another company to do business with. Ten dollars more at Pyramyd will be money well spent. They've been having difficulty with on-time shipping, but they've been very forthcoming about that all along and have a good track record of excellent customer service. I hope you guys that want one can snag one!
-
Yup.
I ordered from PA this morning........10% discount, but then added freight....Saved about $2.00...........
-
There were three in stock at the local Gander. So, I grabbed one being a glutton for punishment. So I get it home and open the scope bag which was factory sealed and find that the scope seems to have been mounted before because it has wear/slip marks. I could think that the scope being loosely set in the rings, it is just shipment wear all the way from the Big Box Factory in China, could be? Rifle looks fine other than that save for another odd thing. The break barrel pin/bolt protrudes and contacts the left side of the stock relief causing it to bow outward! I guess I can cut a neat relief here for the screw.
I am returning a Crosman Vantage for off center scope dovetails, now this $%^&***$#! And I do not have any .25 caliber pellets to test fire it. I think I am going back tomorrow and complain some and try to get a further price reduction or exchange (which I will further inspect). So, why did I not look better, well, the scope bag was factory sealed! And I did not have my glasses, I had forgotten them because I had on my sunglasses :(. The rifle looks fine, really, I think, I can fix the stock.
Is this normal:
(https://i.postimg.cc/28MPsh1L/IMG-0763.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
You know, maybe you guys would differ but I would truly pay 50% more for USA or other non-China sourced product. I might even go double the price if it were USA made or Japan made or Taiwan.
-
That looks pretty asymmetrical from that angle. Perhaps something just came loose. No, doesn’t look right. I would not make any non-warranty moves on it, I’d send it back to Crosman first. Should be on their dime, 5 year warranty.
-
Hopefully one of you has a chrony. I'm curious to see the real world fps numbers vs the advertised ones.
-
That looks pretty asymmetrical from that angle. Perhaps something just came loose. No, doesn’t look right. I would not make any non-warranty moves on it, I’d send it back to Crosman first. Should be on their dime, 5 year warranty.
Yeah, lol, the barrel retention/pivot screw was fully backed out and had been. The rifle has been used long enough for the screw to wear into the stock due to rotation so it is going back to the Gander store. Oh well, see what happens. Otherwise, it is a beautiful air rifle.
-
Okay, went back to Gander and switched out for another un-used rifle. This new one is actually new and seems just dandy. A few test shots indicate it is a good shooter. Wow, this big boy really thumps those fat pellets with authority! I only have a dozen .25 pellets, more on order.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nzhgrRJd/IMG-0765.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
They also took another $8 from the price to match their online price. Good show.
James
-
The box with rifle. They will never make this beast as a carbine, jsssh:
(https://i.postimg.cc/VkJ45Jdc/IMG-0769.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
An interesting thing, the scope rail is bonded to the receiver top. There are no holes or dove tails that I can see. I guess if it comes flying off someday I will have to drill and tap four big 6mmX1.0 screw holes. I worked in the aircraft industry. Mechanics, we like mechanical fasteners and belt and suspender approach to such things. Screws and bolts I can check, composites, who the Hades knows! But, now entire aircraft subassemblies are fully composite. Adhesives today are not what they used to be, there is some amazing stuff out there, hopefully this adhesive is one of them ;) .
-
Maybe NASA sold them the leftover heat shield adhesive from the Shuttle......
-
Maybe NASA sold them the leftover heat shield adhesive from the Shuttle......
Perhaps though I imagine it is out of date for shelf life.
Nowadays everything nearly is made in China, but, perhaps children being born now will live to complain about those dang off-worlders manufacturing everything in outer space and it is all cXXp and they are putting us earthers all out of work.
Maybe it will stay on for a couple of years long enough to wear the new off and then I will not feel so badly about re-engineering, if need be arises.
My real concern now is my wife's reaction when she figures out I also came home with a Savage A17 thumbhole bull barrel, oh dear, woe is me. I have real problems going on.
-
The box with rifle. They will never make this beast as a carbine, jsssh:
...
An interesting thing, the scope rail is bonded to the receiver top. There are no holes or dove tails that I can see. I guess if it comes flying off someday I will have to drill and tap four big 6mmX1.0 screw holes. I worked in the aircraft industry. Mechanics, we like mechanical fasteners and belt and suspender approach to such things. Screws and bolts I can check, composites, who the Hades knows! But, now entire aircraft subassemblies are fully composite. Adhesives today are not what they used to be, there is some amazing stuff out there, hopefully this adhesive is one of them ;) .
I don't have this specific air rifle, but others magnums like this usually have brazed metal picatinny rails. Even with the extreme double recoil from these rifles, I don't think a properly brazed mount will ever come off at normal operating temperatures.
-
It does not look like brazing. Maybe I need to inspect closer. It appears to be a grey adhesive. I see the same thing on the Benjamin Trail XL Magnum.
In any case, I only had a few .25 pellets so I have not been able to fully sight the rifle in. The manual says to allow for 100 shots for break in. So a ways to go. It does have a noticeable recoil but it is not harsh. The rifle is grouping off of my bench rest and that is encouraging. I need to get a new chrono. The rifle balances surprisingly well and I suppose due to different stock material and the NP power plant, it is about the same weight as my Stoeger X20 .177 though it dwarfs the Stoeger in length. Cocking effort is reasonable but not for the little folks, this is not a plinker, it is a hunter. And to be fully useful as such I will need to rig a sling after I get it all set up.
-
What pellets does it like ??
-
What pellets does it like ??
Beats me. That is why I said I only had a handful of pellets. I have some JSB on order. I was given a dozen or so .25 dome Crosman pellets. That is all I have now. I sighted in with five pellets and have seven left to shoot starlings until the JSBs come in. The stores around here do not have .25 pellets and even in .22/.177 the selection is limited.
The GRT (CDT Trigger Works) triggers, the gentleman that started the little company has passed away sadly and his wife is very genteel but does not know what trigger this 725 VTR might take and she suggested I ask here, any help there appreciated?
James
-
You can research using a longer adjustment screw or the RC bearing mod if it's a standard Crosman trigger. Work at your own risk. How bad is the factory trigger? Does it seem like the typical Crosman variety with the blade safety and adjustment screw? The RC bearing mod is AWEsome IF and that's a big IF, it's safe in the gun. Switching to a longer adjustment screw can also help, also very dangerous if you screw it in too far. I have very nearly injured myself grievously on a couple of occasions messing with triggers this way. Be VERY VERY careful. If you change out the adjustment screw, it can sometimes work its way in as you shoot, eventually resulting in an unsafe gun. I use loctite blue to address this.
-
You can research the switched-out adjustment screw mod or the RC bearing mod if it's a standard Crosman trigger. Work at your own risk. How bad is the factory trigger? Does it seem like the typical Crosman variety with the blade safety and adjustment screw? The RC bearing mod is AWEsome IF and that's a big IF, it's safe in the gun. Switching to a longer adjustment screw can also help, also very dangerous if you screwit in too far. I have very nearly injured myself grievously on a couple of occasions messing with triggers this way. Be VERY VERY careful.
I did not say the trigger was bad. I have the GRT trigger in my Stoeger so I want one for this rifle because I like them. Do not read into my question that there is anything wrong with the trigger as is, it seems rather typical. Sorry to confuse you.
-
No sweat...that was my assumption based on past experience with inexpensive break barrels. I have one coming too, I'm interested in the trigger pull for selfish reasons. I do like a good trigger, really helps with accuracy.
-
Just for curiosity, I weighed the beast with the supplied scope. It is 10 pounds and 3 ounces and nearly 48 inches of length!
-
Yeah, that’s a beast alright. About the same dimensions and weight as a Hatsan 135. I ordered a tin of Benjamin 27.? gr. pellets for my incoming Remington. Pretty inexpensive online.
-
Has anyone learned what the thread (size) on the barrel end is? I may need to make a hand grip of larger diameter from a Delrin rod. I have a left hand injury from long ago and the existing shroud that threads on is really too small for my grip.
-
Still trying to learn the barrel muzzle thread size but what purpose does this plastic shroud serve anyways? I assume it might reduce some twang from the rifle and act to assist the grip while cocking? But anything else? Because I am probably going to do away with it and make a more conventional looking and non-shrouded grip of Delrin or aluminum bar.
A close up of the action.
(https://i.postimg.cc/W3YYh1Mt/IMG-0797.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
This rifle was spotless clean. Metal work is clean and finished well enough. Nothing especially unusual looking. I plan to do the bearing/bushing mod for the trigger and fool around with it some now that it is apart. I have some of the 5X8X2.5 Traxxis part number 4115 bearings. If this works I might not need the GTA trigger though I may choose to buy one just to support the little company.
-
My VTR is still being packed at Pyramyd. No hurry, I know it's a tough time for retail outlets.
I plan to cast up a few of the NOE 27 gr. hunters and see how they fly, along with the Benjy domes on their way.
My only other .25 is a Hatsan Striker that has been my most challenging break-barrel thus far, in terms of accuracy.
Very oversized bore (bore diameter is about .256". a standard .25 pellet can be pushed the length of the barrel with no resistance). I have kept it partly because it is a nice-looking gun with a lot of power, and partly because I'm a masochist ::).
-jp
-
I am excited for you to get your VTR so we can compare. I should have pellets Wednesday, I am completely out of the few I had now.
I did the RC bearing modification to the trigger. I first installed the bicycle chain bearing mod and this is fine. It is absolutely not any different in function than the RC #4115 bearing mod other than as a life long cyclist, I had plenty of chains to use to borrow a roller for free. The rollers are 5.35 ID and 7.67 OD. You really do not need a ball bearing here as it really seems to act only as a spacer. There is very little relative movement between the trigger, bearing/bushing and transfer bar. But since I had ordered the bearings and they arrived today I went ahead and used one of them, I had already paid for it so might as well. I did not remove the trigger return spring as it seems most do. I did squeeze it some and then stuck it back in. I do not especially care for "light" target triggers. That BS might be okay for a bench only rifle but it is dangerous IMO for a walking field gun. Whether the trigger was bad or not so bad before it is better now, bad and good is relative to purpose.
-
I have cans full of the un-needed chain links trimmed from new chains.........I've been contemplating stringing
all those Shimano,Sram, Wipperman and other 6 and 8 link segments together to make a hodge-podge drive train...
Now maybe i have another use for the rollers.......of course I could just rob one from any of a number of used chains.....
-
I have one I found when they first went out for sale to the public. I also did some videos about camo dipping the stock while I modded the rifle for sling swivels and a logo sling from a small gun shop in Dayton, Ohio on Amazon. Hits hard and has an authoritive recoil to it. So far as I got testing it, it likes H&N hornets and JSB King .25's. But, as usual, I think most domed pellets will fare well. Here's the couple videos I did...
Part 1;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmY4yv4agyk&t=154s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmY4yv4agyk&t=154s)
Part 2;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc5e612dO_c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc5e612dO_c)
Part3;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAfnqLsTUvU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAfnqLsTUvU)
This rifle is basically the Benjamin NPXL725 barreled action set into a modded Remington 783 stock. But it fires & recoils differently, so I think the swept volume is different in the 725VTR?
-
Yes sir, I read though your thread on the VTR. Nice rifle and I was encouraged by your report to exchange the first rifle for another rather than refund. Glad I did because the first one must have been abused or used for digging post holes or something unknown. My second one is spotless.
The RC #4115 bearing compared to a bicycle chain roller and a .22 pellet and something else for scale:
(https://i.postimg.cc/0Q4PcC1f/IMG-0800.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
My JSB Kings should be here tomorrow and I have some Benji .25 on the way also. It does not matter today, the wind is expected to be sustained over 40 MPH with gusts to 60. The only thing I have that can buck wind like that and even then only at shorter range would take down a buffalo or even an elephant or if there were any still around, a Trex.
This Tack Driver target came from a thread on the High Road forum. I think they meant it for public use (and for .22 RF @ 50/100 yards) so here, let's see them tack drivers air rifles I keep hearing about at 25 yards:
(https://i.postimg.cc/cJgS6nnt/xWlzoYzl.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Some folks use Krylon Camo and Ultra Flat rattle can paints and then over shoot with SprayMax 2K clear for doing their stocks at home. The 2K is a two part urethane in a rattle can, can in a can. The stuff is completely solvent resistant even to MEK once dry and very tough, pot life about 24 hours. I learned about it when I needed to do a fairing on my Triumph ST and was super impressed with the stuff.
-
Darn edit function is timed! I wanted to add, in your video you mentioned that only one of the three screws were patched (blue locking agent). This rifle has a large blue patch on all three screws. The breech seal appears to be sufficiently fitted and tight.
When you installed that forward sling did you need a longer pin? I must not understand that installation?
-
No longer pin. I used the Dremel and a file to cut down the end of the anti-beartrap/cocking lever evenly on both sides to make room for the front swivel yolk. That is what the video shows me doing. The Benji is similarly done. And mine missing some blue Loctite & not having enough shims under the breech seal made me wonder?
-
Mine came in. Looks good. First shot out of the box was a Benji 27.9 grainer, chronoed at 789 (dieseled) that is, lessee....38.6 fpe.
Second shot was 761. Still way over 30 fpe.
4th shot was 692 fps. That’s an even 30 fpe, and I don’t believe it dieseled.
Hopefully the scope mount stays put ;D
-
Mine arrived today from PA.
Quite an impressive weapon.
Reminiscent of my Cro Mag of Beeman Kodiak .25...
First observations........
1.Heft. As others have reported, it is a man sized gun. Has some real heft to it.
2. Cocking effort is appreciable. I had to get my nest door neighbor AND his 14yo. son to accomplish the task.
3. Recoil......very much akin to my Mosin Nagant firing a 7.62 x 54R cartridge, and those are KNOWN for their kick.
I'm gonna need a recoil pad or my Shoulder Saver in order to do any serious shooting.
4. Noise...again, significant. LOUD,even.........
5. Scope...I can't believe it will last long.......I wonder if Crosman will warranty it should it fail??
But, it IS a healthy hunk of iron and plastic for the price.
-
My first real session with it shooting from my Stinger BR. Okay, it kicks and there is noticeable forward recoil. I would not say it is loud but it has a definite THUMP! My scope was moving so I got down on it and it seems to be holding place now. I have witness marks and they have not moved. I have about 50 shots through it now. I have the JSB Exact King domed pellets. Well, it is a pretty strong rifle and zips through 1/2 inch ply with ease.
Here are two 25 yards groups:
(https://i.postimg.cc/gcwLMfpv/IMG-0804.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fknN53Ng/IMG-0805.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The 725VTR is a challenging rifle to shoot due to the significant double recoil. I was sighting in (and still am) and the rifle is bedding in (and still is) so most groups had a flyer or two out of five. It is going to take a while to get good with the VTR. So far I am encouraged!
Before shooting I swabbed the barrel with Ballistol and it was rather dirty. I pulled my snake through to remove excess oil after swabbing.
James
-
Another set of targets at 25 yards, gusting wind from the left. Shot from my Stinger. From the left, the top first and top third, I was adjusting the scope mount screws trying to bed them in. The middle row, far right was shot off hand:
(https://i.postimg.cc/d3rJdRyx/IMG-0806.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
A word to the wise, check the tiny little screws that hold the scope turret finger grips on. One of mine fell out but I was able to locate it. All four were loose. So I snugged them all down good.
-
Trigger is...abysmal out of the box...I can remedy that with my last RC bearing. Will try adjusting a bit first, then out it comes for the modification. Shroud doesn’t bother me as long as it stays put. Will shoot for groups soon, need to cast. Your groups look good, 3crows. Some groups very good. Thanks for heads up re screws.
-
So this morning I took out a starling at about 30 yards. Cut it in half, devastating impact.
I then decided to inspect the rifle further from the shooting yesterday. I checked the scope mount screws, the turret finger screws and then noted that the pivot screw would sometimes turn when I cocked the rifle. I took the rifle down and cleaned it and then reset all screws.
(https://i.postimg.cc/C5q5sP5G/IMG-0807.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/NMVLTqsG/IMG-0809.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Products I used:
(https://i.postimg.cc/yWCdQm3w/IMG-0808.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
In addition to the products above I used my Grace (Marlin) screw drivers. These are rifle specific (I have several different sets) but the large flat driver did well here for the pivot screw. These USA made high grade drivers are machined to fit specific screws so as not to damage them. By the way, the action screws at the for end and at the trigger are a #3 Phillips. I use a product called Strip Out (or fine valve grinding compound) and put just a tiny drop into the cross. This allows the driver to engage the screw and will not slip as long as good down pressure is applied.
(https://i.postimg.cc/W45dNqxk/IMG-0810.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
When going back together, always turn your screws (nuts, bolts etc.) backwards first until you find the threads come home. Then while still applying appropriate down pressure turn the screw in. This prevents cross threading. I cleaned all threads and applied 241 for assembly. On the pivot screw I backed it out to the last thread, cleaned the threads and (!) decided to use 271 here. Hopefully this is a forever screw but if need be I have my ways. Tricks I picked up as an A&P and turbine mechanic, nothing is impossible, it just might cost a lot of money and time which is money (in a shop).
I am glass bedding an A17 Savage right now. If this rifle were the Trail XL (because of the wooden stock) I might bed then daXX thing. But the synthetic stock would be an awful lot of work to bed in my normal methods (though it can be done). The accuracy issues with these spring rifles I am seeing is that they buck around like a wild bronco and rattle everything around with each shot. The action screws MUST be tight but the only way to make sure they never loosen is to bed the rifle. Well, there is that weird hat/U spring in the back of the stock and rear action screw.
James
-
I have an old inherited (nice) Remington Target Master and a newer Rascal. The Remington has a long 24 inch barrel and the Rascal is 16.5. I enjoy these because I can shoot .22 Short such as the CCI CB Short. These are stated to be 29 gr. @ 710 FPS. The Remington gives me around 675-ish and the Rascal right at the advertised 710. That is roughly 30 FPE give or take. The "Hammer" oh, uh, I mean the 725VTR seems to be in the same ball park for energy and velocity. Pellet weights are close and velocities are close. My darn chrono is broken :(.
CCI has a segmented bullet they use on several products. I really like it (in the CCI Quiet in particular) because it is devastating and dumps all of the energy on target and no ricochet from pass throughs either. I would wish for a pellet with similar technology?
-
I have an old inherited (nice) Remington Target Master and a newer Rascal. The Remington has a long 24 inch barrel and the Rascal is 16.5. I enjoy these because I can shoot .22 Short such as the CCI CB Short. These are stated to be 29 gr. @ 710 FPS. The Remington gives me around 675-ish and the Rascal right at the advertised 710. That is roughly 30 FPE give or take. The "Hammer" oh, uh, I mean the 725VTR seems to be in the same ball park for energy and velocity. Pellet weights are close and velocities are close. My darn chrono is broken :(.
Mine isn't, and you're right. they are close. Diesel it and you're heading toward CCI quiet LR energies.
What are the turret screws to which you refer?
I believe the dieseling has stopped, and it has settled down to about 650 fps with the Benjies. Thats about 26 fpe.
-
Your's isn't what? I am not understanding? The CB Short is through my Target Master 29.4 FPE. My non-chrono guess is I have 25.4 gr. Exact at 675 FPS for 26 FPE. I got to get a new chrono -----.
The turret screws I mentioned earlier, one of mine fell out, lol:
(https://i.postimg.cc/MpQbdQ9x/IMG-0811.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I have to let my rifle set for 24 hours to make sure the locking agent is set. Then back to smashing starlings and assorted nefarious vermin.
-
I meant my chrony isn't broken ;)
Yeah, that's what I thought you meant (turret screws). I checked mine and they were OK.
The gun also appears to be quite accurate right out of the box. Shooting decent groups at 25 yards with my first pellets.
Trigger has a looong creep but breaks pretty well with the adjuster screw all the way in.
-JP
-
Pivot screw backed out while I was shooting, did the same thing as was posted early in the thread.
Cranked everything down. Groups have yet to be attained. Probably tear it down, clean it, fix the trigger.
I am comfortable calling the trigger bad as it is. I notice I'm contradicting myself a little from my last post.
As for the picatinny rail...that looks like a weld to me, correct me if I'm wrong. It takes some muscle to cock this thing.
PS James I notice that you gave us heads up on all of this a couple posts back and I could have saved myself some trouble.
The slow student (me) learns his lesson.
-JP
-
Pivot screw backed out while I was shooting, did the same thing as was posted early in the thread.
Cranked everything down. Groups have yet to be attained. Probably tear it down, clean it, fix the trigger.
I am comfortable calling the trigger bad as it is. I notice I'm contradicting myself a little from my last post.
As for the picatinny rail...that looks like a weld to me, correct me if I'm wrong. It takes some muscle to cock this thing.
PS James I notice that you gave us heads up on all of this a couple posts back and I could have saved myself some trouble.
The slow student (me) learns his lesson.
-JP
I knew this was a potential problem because the first rifle I brought home it was apparent the rifle had been abused and the pivot screw was fully out and actually the blue was worn from it and a hole worn in the stock from the rotation. Clearly, this rifle was not NIB. It might have been a display but that does not explain how it got full of dirt! So anyways, my new rifle is perfect, super clean and was NIB. And knowing the pivot screw is prone to backing out I just went ahead and hopefully have made it resistant to that now with the 271 on mine. I was reminded again, having known this also long ago, never purchase any rifle without a careful inspection and make sure I am wearing my glasses when I do!
-
The pivot screw started backing out and I didn’t notice until it was starting to flex out the stock...it probably damaged some threads since I cocked it a few times without noticing. There was a noticeable hitch as I was torquing it back in. I also notice there is slightly more space between the breech and where it pivots on the lugs on one side versus the other. Maybe a difference of 5-10 thou. I suspect these are all things that allow the gun to cost $160.
3crows, is 271 like red loctite, permanent? I need to pick up some thread locker for this and other jobs.
-
That's an electron beam weld on the picatinny rails. I used to run an electron beam welder at Ford in Cinci on the ATX reverse gear hubs. And my 725VTR was about 200 bucks when they first came out. I think it was PA? But some masking, camo dip & modding for sling swivels sure looks and feels better. The mat clear over it is quite durable and easy to clean. More like an egg shell gloss. But I was surprised that it needed a new breech seal right away?! I had to put a total of three shims behind the breech seal to get it to seal well. Now that I have a new G2 chrono, I'll have to charge up it & the notebook to see if it all works in here & for how long per charge? Here's a pic of the Remington 725VTR next to the Benjamin NPXL725 it shares a barreled action with. Again, the Remington is the Benji action in a Remington 783 stock. Same scope & both .25M;
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/921/bEsBBa.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plbEsBBaj)
-
The pivot screw started backing out and I didn’t notice until it was starting to flex out the stock...it probably damaged some threads since I cocked it a few times without noticing. There was a noticeable hitch as I was torquing it back in. I also notice there is slightly more space between the breech and where it pivots on the lugs on one side versus the other. Maybe a difference of 5-10 thou. I suspect these are all things that allow the gun to cost $160.
3crows, is 271 like red loctite, permanent? I need to pick up some thread locker for this and other jobs.
I doubt it damaged anything. Rather than the 271 I used I would first try the blue 242 or Guntite or one of the other similar semi-permanent thread lockers. Yes, 271 is considered permanent. But it can be removed, I have done so many times on aircraft where similar to (271) had been used and heating was forbidden. The pivot screw is supposed to be tightened down until the barrel will just stay put when cocked at any position. I tightened mine to that plus a little. The action still moves smoothly and easily (when cocked). I went a little tighter because the rifle is new and not broken in and I do not want the screw backing out anymore. And to be clear, on this rifle the screw never backed out, I just noted that it was loose in my after first time shooting inspection.
Ideally you should be able to adjust the pivot screw over time to compensate for wear. Thus for most it would probably be best not to use 271 or similar. The 271 begins to break down at around 250 to 300 degrees and is easily removable at 350 degrees.
-
That's an electron beam weld on the picatinny rails. I used to run an electron beam welder at Ford in Cinci on the ATX reverse gear hubs. And my 725VTR was about 200 bucks when they first came out.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/921/bEsBBa.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plbEsBBaj)
Hey, yes, I see that it is welded now. When I first looked at it I thought the rail was aluminum and that it was bonded. But, yes, under magnification it is easy to see that the rail is indeed welded to the spring tube.
I see two 725VTR at $219 at Cabalas locally. Good thing I went to our local Gander. It was priced $199 and on sale for $153.
I am not sure I want to double my investment with the camo dip. It is beautiful I agree and your rifle is extraordinary. I have Krylon/2K painted several stocks and that runs me about $50 for materials. To tell the truth, I like the VTR better than the Trail. I like thumbhole stocks but not this derivation that Crosman uses. And I like synthetic stocks over wood for field guns. I think the VTR is the better rifle.
I may have to do that sling mount. I consider this rifle a hunter, not a plinker or target shooter. I could do a AR type side sling with twist in locks or a conventional sling just looped on the barrel or do it right like you did with the sling mount on the stud. You do good work!
James
-
That really is a very nice job on that camo stock.
And thanks again, guys, for bringing your experience to the table.
I did the jobs I wanted to do, including the trigger mod and addressing the pivot screw.
Used Permatex loctite blue on everything, cleaned and slugged the barrel while I was at it....looks to be .251” or so, a lot better than the Hatsan. At least I can feel a little resistance pushing the pellet down the barrel.
I’ll let everything set before I start running pellets through it again.
-Jesse
-
As civilization has slowly encroached upon my acres I have become more cautious with the use of my favorite verminator, my Marlin 917VS. So, I have a new tool in my arsenal to keep my place safe for democracy and for song birds of all variety. Vermin, you can run, but you cannot hide, meet "The Hammer" :) :
(https://i.postimg.cc/NMgPkPxW/IMG-0827.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/htTyWqyk/IMG-0821.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
-
I like my synthetic stocks for field/brush guns, just have always disliked the hollow echo in my ear when shooting. Not a clue how much yours might or if it even bothers you, but I use PA pellet foam cut to fit, then coated on all sides with 100% rubberized black silicone. Little messy, but once done and set, it helps deaden that echo.
You can use pretty much anything...old shop rags, old tshirts, seen guys mention ziploc bags filled with rice or plumbers putty, which in hindsight would make it way easier to remove if you wanted to. Not a clue if it's something you're interested in trying but figured I'd toss it out there :)
-
I like my synthetic stocks for field/brush guns, just have always disliked the hollow echo in my ear when shooting. Not a clue how much yours might or if it even bothers you, but I use PA pellet foam cut to fit, then coated on all sides with 100% rubberized black silicone. Little messy, but once done and set, it helps deaden that echo.
You can use pretty much anything...old shop rags, old tshirts, seen guys mention ziploc bags filled with rice or plumbers putty, which in hindsight would make it way easier to remove if you wanted to. Not a clue if it's something you're interested in trying but figured I'd toss it out there :)
I have heard of using rice, just poured in. The rifle is heavy enough so I would not want to add any appreciable weight to it. I have also heard of people using non-expanding type spray foam. Good thoughts though, thanks.
James
-
I am still a little gun-shy from my experience with my Hatsan .25, where I had to lube and flare pellets and stay inside of 20 yards to get a group. Indeed, I’m tempted to lube and flare pellets for this gun too. Let’s talk a little about spring-piston internal ballistics. What kinds of diameters do we require for good accuracy in a springer? In a powder burner, one or two thou over groove diameter (for cast bullets) is common knowledge. I understand there’s some flaring involved, obturation, that hooks the rifling up with the pellet–so where does head size come in? The heads on the Benji 27.9s are about .249”, skirt is about .252” at its widest. I’m guessing my Hatsan was a fluke or a result of poor QC–I would like to chill out a bit but it will take some consistency from the new Remington to relax me. Also, the parties on this thread all seem to have some engineering and technical expertise, so it seems a good place to continue the conversation.
-Jesse
-
Here’s mine along with another of my babies:
-
Here’s mine along with another of my babies:
Very nice....and nice stool, too !!
-
That's an electron beam weld on the picatinny rails. I used to run an electron beam welder at Ford in Cinci on the ATX reverse gear hubs. And my 725VTR was about 200 bucks when they first came out.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/921/bEsBBa.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plbEsBBaj)
Hey, yes, I see that it is welded now. When I first looked at it I thought the rail was aluminum and that it was bonded. But, yes, under magnification it is easy to see that the rail is indeed welded to the spring tube.
I see two 725VTR at $219 at Cabalas locally. Good thing I went to our local Gander. It was priced $199 and on sale for $153.
I am not sure I want to double my investment with the camo dip. It is beautiful I agree and your rifle is extraordinary. I have Krylon/2K painted several stocks and that runs me about $50 for materials. To tell the truth, I like the VTR better than the Trail. I like thumbhole stocks but not this derivation that Crosman uses. And I like synthetic stocks over wood for field guns. I think the VTR is the better rifle.
I may have to do that sling mount. I consider this rifle a hunter, not a plinker or target shooter. I could do a AR type side sling with twist in locks or a conventional sling just looped on the barrel or do it right like you did with the sling mount on the stud. You do good work!
James
Thanks! In the videos I did, I notched out the end of the cocking/anti-beartrap lever. Leaving 3mm in the center to allow for the swivel yolk arms from the NPXL725. That way, it bolts right back in place and looks factory.
-
I am still a little gun-shy from my experience with my Hatsan .25, where I had to lube and flare pellets and stay inside of 20 yards to get a group. Indeed, I’m tempted to lube and flare pellets for this gun too. Let’s talk a little about spring-piston internal ballistics. What kinds of diameters do we require for good accuracy in a springer? In a powder burner, one or two thou over groove diameter (for cast bullets) is common knowledge. I understand there’s some flaring involved, obturation, that hooks the rifling up with the pellet–so where does head size come in? The heads on the Benji 27.9s are about .249”, skirt is about .252” at its widest. I’m guessing my Hatsan was a fluke or a result of poor QC–I would like to chill out a bit but it will take some consistency from the new Remington to relax me. Also, the parties on this thread all seem to have some engineering and technical expertise, so it seems a good place to continue the conversation.
-Jesse
Even in the powder burner world of home re-loading and casting of boolits there is much discussion of this subject of bullet sizing. While there is some common ground around the numbers you cite it is hardly universal. Pellets, little mini badminton birdies, are odd creatures and seem designed as such to self stabilize, perhaps a carry over or universal design from smooth bore days? I have inspected pellets fired into water and find that the rifling mostly engages with the rear skirt. Thus the pellets must surely wobble down the barrel, especially where as with your Hatson there is a tolerance build (or QC issue). But as well, the skirt design is somewhat self sizing as it must expand outward when it first sees the pressurized air forcing the skirt to conform to the barrel. But the head of the pellet does not. Another consideration is friction, the minimal engagement with the barrel seen by the front part of the pellet reduces the pellet to barrel friction for higher velocity than a boolit shaped projectile that would have more surface area in contact with the barrel and rifling.
Does any company have a rifling similar to Marlin Micro-Groove? The rifling in all of these China built rifles looks like it belongs in a 45-70 :).
Are there pellet molds that can be purchased for home casting? And in differing sizing?
-
First random thought is how long have you had the Hatsan? If under a year, everything should still be under warranty unless you tore the rifle apart. If nothing else, keep an eye on the HatsanUSA refurb page for their Edge springer refurbs. If they have one in .25, they're $39.99 plus shipping gets you an entire gun for parts and I guarantee knowing cost of parts, that's insanely cheaper than buying the parts separately.
All the parts are interchangeable with both the Striker and 1000X rifles being they're the same rifles with minor cosmetic differences, barrels included, and you'd have everything you might need when or if something breaks.
https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/product/_refurbished-edge-spring/
-
I am still a little gun-shy from my experience with my Hatsan .25, where I had to lube and flare pellets and stay inside of 20 yards to get a group. Indeed, I’m tempted to lube and flare pellets for this gun too. Let’s talk a little about spring-piston internal ballistics. What kinds of diameters do we require for good accuracy in a springer? In a powder burner, one or two thou over groove diameter (for cast bullets) is common knowledge. I understand there’s some flaring involved, obturation, that hooks the rifling up with the pellet–so where does head size come in? The heads on the Benji 27.9s are about .249”, skirt is about .252” at its widest. I’m guessing my Hatsan was a fluke or a result of poor QC–I would like to chill out a bit but it will take some consistency from the new Remington to relax me. Also, the parties on this thread all seem to have some engineering and technical expertise, so it seems a good place to continue the conversation.
-Jesse
Even in the powder burner world of home re-loading and casting of boolits there is much discussion of this subject of bullet sizing. While there is some common ground around the numbers you cite it is hardly universal. Pellets, little mini badminton birdies, are odd creatures and seem designed as such to self stabilize, perhaps a carry over or universal design from smooth bore days? I have inspected pellets fired into water and find that the rifling mostly engages with the rear skirt. Thus the pellets must surely wobble down the barrel, especially where as with your Hatson there is a tolerance build (or QC issue). But as well, the skirt design is somewhat self sizing as it must expand outward when it first sees the pressurized air forcing the skirt to conform to the barrel. But the head of the pellet does not. Another consideration is friction, the minimal engagement with the barrel seen by the front part of the pellet reduces the pellet to barrel friction for higher velocity than a boolit shaped projectile that would have more surface area in contact with the barrel and rifling.
Does any company have a rifling similar to Marlin Micro-Groove? The rifling in all of these China built rifles looks like it belongs in a 45-70 :).
Are there pellet molds that can be purchased for home casting? And in differing sizing?
Absolutely.... NOE Bullet Molds. They make pellet molds also in .22 cal. and up.
-
+1 on the NOE pellet molds. I have 2, one in .22 and one in .25. The .25 is about 26 grains, called the “hunter,” has a flat nose. The .22 is about 18 grains and much the same shape. Al Nelson also offers a 33 grain .25 and a 24 grain .22, along with a few airgun slugs. Oh, and a 21 gr. .25 wadcutter.
The Hatsan was a refurb, purchased from their website for about $80 if memory serves. Now that I have the Remington, which shoots hard and well, I will probably just plink with the Hatsan anyway. It shoots 19.91 grainers OK and is a pretty snappy shooter. I measured 22 fpe using JSB 25.39. I do appreciate the suggestion re. a closeout edge...I like surfing their site now and again, I would snap one of those up just cuz.
James, your points are well taken regarding pellet fit and internal ballistics. Airguns certainly have their own set of operating principles that deviate from firearms in many important ways. I think your description of a pellet traveling the length of a barrel illustrates that point.
I was just reading some extremely wonky discussion on measuring throat diameter as being superior to measuring groove diameter in a powder burner (over on the castboolits site), some serious minutae on various slopes, ratios and aspects...Phd stuff man, I tell ya. I respect those minds but just slugging the barrel has always worked for me. I’m not a bench rest shooter and I don’t require half-minute guns.
Back to the original topic, I had my first satisfying session with the Remington today after addressing its various tweaks. Man, it’s blasting those benjies at like 720 FPS and I was pasting a tomato paste can at 20 yard. Definitely feels like it’s running well now. Good stuff,
-Jess
-
Back to the original topic, I had my first satisfying session with the Remington today after addressing its various tweaks. Man, it’s blasting those benjies at like 720 FPS and I was pasting a tomato paste can at 20 yard. Definitely feels like it’s running well now. Good stuff,
-Jess
There is no reason the 725VTR should not be a decent shooter. It seems most folks like their Benjamin Trail NP and this is the exact same rifle but for a few minor details, better or worse, depending upon preferences. Yes, the 725VTR does hit hard and it would be my thought it is right at the advertised FPE/velocity. The level of accuracy for a magnum break barrel that is really a hunting tool, still not sure exactly what is expected. I understand those anemic little break barrel target bench rest air rifles can shoot decent groups but they hardly approach what a good .22LR could do at twice the distance for accuracy. I guess I have lowered my expectations after working with my Stoeger X20. A scout mounted scope on the barrel would certainly help but there is no such animal that I can find that is air rifle rated?
-
I did the trigger mod using a bicycle chain roller yesterday....trigger nice!
Now, I need to strap on my shoulder saver and sight the beast in.............
-
I did the trigger mod using a bicycle chain roller yesterday....trigger nice!
Now, I need to strap on my shoulder saver and sight the beast in.............
The bicycle chain roller is a good modification and it works just fine. Sometimes wish I had not left the spring in. But next time I am in the rifle I may reconsider. It does add to the pull weight but with the chain roller or bearing mod the trigger is still much smoother and more predictable.
I am reliably hitting targets (vermin) at 50 yards with this rifle. It is still breaking in but the velocity I am seeing with the JSB Exact King Diablo pellets is 680 FPS and 26 FPE, which is up a little from my first chrono effort. Like I said, it is still breaking in.
-
Still breaking mine in as well.
My efforts are hampered when my neighbor and his kid have to go home.......and I can not cock it by myself.... ;)
-
Still breaking mine in as well.
My efforts are hampered when my neighbor and his kid have to go home.......and I can not cock it by myself.... ;)
I doubt it gets much easier to cock, maybe a little. Sitting down, put the butt down between your legs, bottom of the rife away from you, scope toward your belly. Then reach up and slap the barrel away and forward, then grab it, with both hands if needed, and pull it downward. The butt pinched between your legs may put a little pressure, uh, well, you can figure that part out, but with a little care this is the easy way. If you have to shimmy up the rifle a little bit to get a purchase on the barrel go right ahead and do so, that way gravity will sit you back down and help cock the bugger. Frankly, it is stiff, but not all that bad, I have no difficulty with it.
-
Thanks for the tutorial, James.
That's pretty much how I do it.
My comments were tongue-in-cheek.............
-
Thanks for the tutorial, James.
That's pretty much how I do it.
My comments were tongue-in-cheek.............
I figured so. But with my Stoeger, it feels toyish in comparison for cocking force. I just grab it and break it like a big toothpick with open arms. The 725VTR, uh, no! I rest the butt on my hip if standing, the other way if seated.
I have two neighbor boys who play HS fooseball. When there is anything heavy to move I hire them. They are cheap. Not sure if I could hire one though to sit around and cock my air rifles for me ;). I already gave them a 392 NIB.
-
The Remington would knock you cold or remove a digit if it let go on you. I never let go of the barrel on these things when I’m loading them. I just re-sealed a Diana 25 for comparison, it’s like a pop gun.
FWIW, I removed the trigger spring (the one that’s easily accessible) when I did the RC bearing fix and it is fine. There is another spring in there somewhere that resets the trigger.
-
That should be no discouragement, since any magnum breakbarrel rifle has the same potential for harm if mis-used. This is a GREAT rifle for the money and I’m really looking forward to squirrel season.
-
That's an electron beam weld on the picatinny rails. I used to run an electron beam welder at Ford in Cinci on the ATX reverse gear hubs. And my 725VTR was about 200 bucks when they first came out.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/921/bEsBBa.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plbEsBBaj)
Hey, yes, I see that it is welded now. When I first looked at it I thought the rail was aluminum and that it was bonded. But, yes, under magnification it is easy to see that the rail is indeed welded to the spring tube.
I see two 725VTR at $219 at Cabalas locally. Good thing I went to our local Gander. It was priced $199 and on sale for $153.
I am not sure I want to double my investment with the camo dip. It is beautiful I agree and your rifle is extraordinary. I have Krylon/2K painted several stocks and that runs me about $50 for materials. To tell the truth, I like the VTR better than the Trail. I like thumbhole stocks but not this derivation that Crosman uses. And I like synthetic stocks over wood for field guns. I think the VTR is the better rifle.
I may have to do that sling mount. I consider this rifle a hunter, not a plinker or target shooter. I could do a AR type side sling with twist in locks or a conventional sling just looped on the barrel or do it right like you did with the sling mount on the stud. You do good work!
James
Yeah, the Realtree Edge camo dip at Mid Ohio Hydrographics cost me $128. And by masking the grip and trigger guard areas, it looks factory. I think it's worth it. I'm also gonna have them do the same camo on my Winchester 1977XS pumper. 1000FPS deserves it I think?
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/LGaX5H.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnLGaX5Hj)
And thanks for the kudos on the Remington mods. I learned a lot of by-hand stuff with grinders & files from my dad. He obviously got it from Grandpa, who was a Bavarian cabinet maker. Now it shoots well and looks great. And now that I got a Caldwell G2, I might be able to get decent numbers?
-
I have been distracted by PBs for the last days but I pulled out the Thumper this afternoon to give it a few shots. It is a lot of fun to shoot. And I have been doing my push ups so now I can actually cock it without getting the come-along from my Jeep.