GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Jacob_M on May 29, 2020, 10:08:30 AM
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So the Raptor is back together now and after a long work week I had some trigger time!
I sent my barrel to Motorhead for some attention and he did an amazing job. Big shout out to him!
Shot about 10 shots of jsb 34gr to help get my scope sighted in and also to remind myself what the tune was.
1st shot 881 , next 9 shots were all between 876-885fps. Zero stiction! This is with the gun sitting for 2 weeks.
Next up was the .25 FX hybrids. Now I had some high hopes for these when I learned the FX superior liner was a 1:23 twist because my TJ barrel is a 1:22. Has to be close enough right?
Without changing anything I shot 5 shots at 50 yards. Wow! Don’t want to get too excited but this is the best group with slugs the raptor has done.
All 5 shots were within 968-972fps for 54Ft Lbs!
More testing to come!
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Jacob, I told people that the future FX liner was very slow, and no one seemed to believe me. They even bothered to post the current liners as proof. Even Travis didn't believe me when I told him I wanted a 20/1 for slugs. He didn't want to order it at all. And didn't.
When o when are people Going to believe me when I state something. Never once have I mislead the members here, and have been problem right over and over again. Remember the MADE Device? LOL
Had JSAR only at least tried it, they would have had a tack driver of a slug barrel. TJ had thej ready!
I got on the phone and ordered a second 1 in 20 from Brownells. Superb!
I think those FX slugs have a promising future. Nothing like an accurate gun! ;) 8)
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The Rat Sniper groups were the best of all out of my 19:1 GM Marauder barrel back when they were Rat Sniper branded. I hope they didn't screw them up with the FX tweaks.
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I was out shooting over the last weekend With the mini Raptor and RX slugs. Good groups like yours at 50 yards. Squirrels out to 80 yards. DRT. When I get some time will post my hunting trip in the hunting gate.
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They did change. There not the same and that's why you have to have the new liner for the 25 slugs to work. They don't work in the other slug liner. Check out the reviews. Most people are not having good luck with them at all.
Also the only reason they work in a slower twist barrel is they are basically a pellet. Try shooting slugs that are longer and heavier in that slower twist barrel
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Great news Jacob ... Indeed some of the finer details in barrel prep Blank to usable barrel often get over looked in production manufacturing.
Looks like you got a shooter now !!
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Jacob, excellent group! Plus your tune held with no stiction...oh yeah!!! Scott, nice work on his barrels crown ☺️👍.
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3/5 touching with 4 and 5 not far behind is, glad to see some worthy groupings with the hybrids, lots of others having poor performance.
You should shoot groups at 900 fps and then another set at 930 to see if there are any noteworthy improvements in group size. With that kind of es you should be able to get them touching, just need to stabilize them a bit and that could be exiting muzzle pressure turbulence causing it, or the fact they're still wobbling/spiraling a bit.
Pellets being drag stabilized do wonderful inside 75 yards, and can lose stability and spiral shooting beyond (generally due to turbulence around the pellet waist as velocity drastically shifts down range, hence why we don't shoot these well into the trans-sonic or subsonic range)
Slugs are spin stabilized and can spiral a bit prior to self-stabilizing when not launched from the barrel with ideal twist rates or at too low of a velocity or a combination of the two.
These hybrids try to get the benefits of pellets close range precision, with the benefits of higher BC of slugs. I love the idea personally.
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They did change. There not the same and that's why you have to have the new liner for the 25 slugs to work. They don't work in the other slug liner. Check out the reviews. Most people are not having good luck with them at all.
Also the only reason they work in a slower twist barrel is they are basically a pellet. Try shooting slugs that are longer and heavier in that slower twist barrel
Well, if I can dispatch a critter with a cheaper lead chunk, I don't see any reason for an expensive one. I don't have my 30 cal yet, but just based on reviews and videos from many, the 44.7gr pellet will do just fine for most medium sized critters out to a good distance without the need for a slug liner. All guns are different of course. My dream is to cast my own and them to work well enough or better than that. It may never happen, but I'll still try.
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3/5 touching with 4 and 5 not far behind is, glad to see some worthy groupings with the hybrids, lots of others having poor performance.
You should shoot groups at 900 fps and then another set at 930 to see if there are any noteworthy improvements in group size. With that kind of es you should be able to get them touching, just need to stabilize them a bit and that could be exiting muzzle pressure turbulence causing it, or the fact they're still wobbling/spiraling a bit.
Pellets being drag stabilized do wonderful inside 75 yards, and can lose stability and spiral shooting beyond (generally due to turbulence around the pellet waist as velocity drastically shifts down range, hence why we don't shoot these well into the trans-sonic or subsonic range)
Slugs are spin stabilized and can spiral a bit prior to self-stabilizing when not launched from the barrel with ideal twist rates or at too low of a velocity or a combination of the two.
These hybrids try to get the benefits of pellets close range precision, with the benefits of higher BC of slugs. I love the idea personally.
The picture got turned on it’s side for some reason, so that group is actually horizontal. Some slight left to right movement. Could very well be me why they weren’t all touching. Got to do some longer range testing, but after 50 yards that is a dead critter every time.
They did change. There not the same and that's why you have to have the new liner for the 25 slugs to work. They don't work in the other slug liner. Check out the reviews. Most people are not having good luck with them at all.
Also the only reason they work in a slower twist barrel is they are basically a pellet. Try shooting slugs that are longer and heavier in that slower twist barrel
I’ll give some other slugs a try eventually! Got to order more slugs from NSA.
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The fx slugs are not good enough to off set the cost. They don't expand at distance. Look at shooter 1721s video. The further he shot the ballistic gel the deeper they went
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Just got done shooting some NSA 26.8 gr. (Only nsa slugs I have left)
Before Motorhead got a hold of my barrel they didn’t group at all. 3+ inch spread.
Now they are grouping about 1 inch at 50 yards with many shots touching.
Also shot a bunch more jsb 34 gr and was experimenting with my hold and follow through. A firm hold seems to net be the best accuracy. I really need to ditch this skeletonized grip. I don’t like the angle of it. I ordered the ergo tdx zero angle grip. I think it will help me be consistent with my hold.
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Curious what kind of work was needed to the barrel to get it up to par, some other raptor owners may want to pursue similar enhanced performance if this is of any trend.
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Tried some nsa slugs in my .25 Raptor last time out. The 29.5 (.249) were iffy at 50 yds. so I didn't pursue them any further. The 33.5 (.250) showed some promise. They grouped well at 150 yds at only 820 fps. in light winds.
I know all barrels are different but they may be worth a look.
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Curious what kind of work was needed to the barrel to get it up to par, some other raptor owners may want to pursue similar enhanced performance if this is of any trend.
No rocket science applied ... Just finishing off the DETAIL side of any professional BLANK to USABLE barrel manufacturing process.
Entry into barrels Leade / Free bore having a slight taper, O-ring groove edges heavily beveled, Transfer passage to free bore having NO sharp edges that snag or shave lead passing by it, Riflings start being feathered into free bore so rifling is IMPRESSED into lead and not cut, crisp and clean Crown with no fancy angles but 90* to bore.
All prepped correctly you should be able to place a pellet or slug into the barrel and while getting some subtle resistance getting said projectile into the rifling, not get abrupt snags or hangs ups ... If successful you have done your job in prep.
Scott S
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...I really need to ditch this skeletonized grip. I don’t like the angle of it.
If you don't like that Ergo, may I suggest the EVG by MPA (MasterPiece Arms)? It feels amazing! I have one on a chassis I use.
(https://i.imgur.com/qtJJspU.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CeRL6oc.jpg)
Another suggestion would be the MDT vertical grip- the grip LOP is adjustable (distance from trigger face to leading edge of grip)... Here's a link:
https://mdttac.com/us_en/mdt-vertical-grip.html (https://mdttac.com/us_en/mdt-vertical-grip.html)
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First let me apologize for the poor grammar in my post to you Jacob. Up two days trying new and different things in the Raptor Mini.
I've talked to quite a few people testing the FX Hybrids. Most of the reports I get are very good. Odd that Dyotat is hearing so differently. And of course they tend to not open as well at longer ranges. That is the way it is with All Hp's Not just the FX slugs. It is the difference in fps/fpe and kinetic energy. Simple physics.
Once caught up, I would like to send you some of my .50 hp slugs. Accurate, and explosive on vermin. ;) I also have a slug I designed that is as accurate in group sizes at 80 to 100 yards that is tighter than what you are seeing at 50. Woo-Hoo!!!
But like yours now, all my barrels are fully prepped. Only way to go! 8)
Mike
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No problem Knife!
Still no chance to try FX slugs farther than 50, hopefully tomorrow. This "dang" grass grew too fast, got to clean up my path to my 100 yard mound. Even if the slugs don’t open up as well at distance, they will still take out a squirrel or dove at 120 yards with ease. Once you get to experience slugs and how little they move in the wind it’s hard to go back to pellets. I know the FX slugs are pricey, but if they work I don’t mind spending a little extra. I would MUCH prefer to find NSA slugs that work because the price is so much better.
For sure knife! I would love to try some of your ammo! Just let me know.
Also, ergo grip came early. This thing feels great and I can tell it will help already. Also think the gun looks better with this grip.