GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Jzizzle on May 13, 2020, 02:07:17 PM
-
Wow!! Can't even begin to describe this PCP. Simply amazing!
Out of the box, reg is set to 170bar. Shooting 33.95 JSB at 1000fps, and they are stable. 1/2 at 66 yards. 995-1010 fps for the very first mag. At this power level with a 4500 psi fill is good for 2 mags or 38 shots.
I have a bunch of slugs to try but I'm gunna put 500 jsb thru it to break it in before making adjustments.
Stock is very nice composite material, shoulders very well and finger grooves are comfortable. It is rather light too.
Fill gauge shows a difference of 125psi compared to my 2.5" Winters gauge on compressor. So it's acceptable.
Noise is subjective, but I think it is backyard friendly, I added a Ronin LDC. It didn't reduce the output very much, but rather changed the pitch to a duller thud.
Trigger is light and crisp. To my surprise it is very short. Definitely better then the bullboss trigger- only other bullpup I can compare to with first hand experience.
Complaint- No bottom rail or sling stud to mount a bipod. This was a surprise to me but no biggie. Got a sling stud on the way.
Huben is a blast to shoot!
-
I take it that they finally changed the end of the shroud to be able to add an ldc? If so, Great!!! I love the Hulbens!
Such innovation!
Now, don't bother with a stud mounted bipod. Not on such a fine gun. Pony up and put a short Picatinny on it and pick up a good bipod. It makes a Huge difference. All the stud mounted bipods put a LOT of stress on the stock. Not to mention torque stresses that will askue the accuracy at longer ranges.
Just think for a moment of how tiny a screw is for a stud. Not hardly anything there. ;)
I added this one last week. 8) I tried the fake first to see if I liked the type before plunking down hard cash. The fake broke, but it gave me an idea of what it was supposed to be like. I was shocked that the real deal was so much larger, stronger, bigger in every respect. Especially in all components that it depends on to work. Man, this thing isj a TANK!!! Unreal how steady it is. Never experienced anything like it. Blows my Atlas away! 15.75 wide at the feet fully extended. :o
SR 5 G2 Accu-Tac. Next to fake Chinese of what was supposed to be a copy. Not! LOL
-
I take it that they finally changed the end of the shroud to be able to add an ldc? If so, Great!!!
Now, don't bother with a stud mounted bipod. Not on such a fine gun. Pony up and put a short Picatinny on it and pick up a good bipod. It makes a Huge difference. All the stud mounted bipods put a LOT of stress on the stock. Not to mention torque stresses that will askue the accuracy at longer ranges. ;)
Agreed! Mount a rail. Love mine its my go to gun for sure.
-
Reminds me. About 30 minutes ago, the Mini Raptor took a squirrel at 60 yards, thru both ears. Woo-Hoo! Miss fox is gonna eat well tonight. I won't eat them in the hot weather here in Texas now, gut they are causing trouble and have to be kept in check.
.2227, 31.4 gr. hand cast slug, 1015 fps. Woo-Hoo X2. ;) ;D 8)
Could have taken two, but still having to single load for now. Bummer!
Knife
-
Appreciate the stud mount tip!
-
Congrats on an awesome gun!! Good thing you have lots of lead to try out :D
-
For those wondering what ammo is best in 2020 Huben with what I believe is the 3rd barrel variation.
Pellets:
Only tried the Beasts 33.95gr. very accurate at 1000fps. Groups begin to open up around 80 yards. This could be due to wind though.
I calculated the BC to be .035.
Slugs:
Huben Boattail 35gr- no good
NSA .217 27.5/28.5- better but not ideal. Also loose in magazine.
NSA Huben 36gr- Did not do well in the 2020. I had high hopes for this slug to be pushing over 80fpe. From what I read, this is go to round for 2018 model.
Varmint Knockers 28.5gr. Absolutely phenomenal results. 1040fps stacking at 80 yards. Calculated BC of .074. This is going to be the exclusive slug I run for the K1!
-
I'm bumping this thread rather than starting a new one.
With all the talk of heavier slug shooting in the impact, I was curious how the Huben would sling heavier slugs.
AVS makes .223 slugs.
The flat base 38gr is the max the K1 magazine can fit. 11mm is max length and 40gr is just a tad too long.
We'll see how these perform. Got the 36/38gr on the way.
If they can match the VN 28.5 gr accuracy, I will have a new go to Huben slug.
-
Huben has been on my list for a while and still sounds like my next rifle in 22cal. Im not finding much info other than YouTube from way back when and an overseas website that displays very little info. Let me ask a few questions of those of you that own these.
1) can you adjust a less than 3 1/2# ‘crisp’ trigger pull with this rifle or is the semi-auto mechanism just a gradual creep.
2) Does any US company offer these.
3) what should be a reasonable price to pay for one.
Any additional info and opinions will be welcomed.
Thanks,
Tom
-
The trigger is adjustable, however I left it the way of was out of the box.
I got mine back in 2020 thru New England Airguns. There's a few other retailers that sell in the USA.
I think you'll end up spending 1750-2000 depending on model and features.
-
Tom,
I'm not sure my trigger can even get up to a 3.5 lb weight - mine came to me at just under a pound and it is fairly crisp in the second stage. It's not a match trigger, but it is very good over all, even setting aside the fact that it is a bullpup semi-auto. If there is any weakness it is in the first stage, which starts with pulling against a light spring, then becomes real after that - so it has some length there. But is stops solidly for second stage that breaks cleanly - and when shooting double taps, you only have to let off the second stage to reengage and take the next shot, so it only requires a few mm of movement.
I think the best place to buy is from Kelly at KRAZ Cool airguns: https://krazcool.com/ - I bought mine from him and the support is off the charts. He will test and set up your gun the way you want, and provide outstanding support after the sale. He stocks all parts and ships fast if you ever need anything, and will walk you through anything you may ever have to do to fix any issues if they ever occur - or you can send it back to him for repair too as he handels all the service needs on Hubens. Pricing is on his website.
I love my .22 Huben. It is my absolute go-to gun anymore . . .
-
+1 for Kelly Schmidt of Krazcool Airguns. Expect to pay $2,200-$2,400 for a new one, depending on if you add any parts or services on or $1,300-$1600 for a nice used one depending on options.
-
AVS .223 slugs will not fully seat in magazine. I believe only the most rear of slug can be .223 to fit magazine.
AVS .2213 slugs seat firmly and Huben k1 magazine can cycle AVS Slug 38gr max.
Accuracy tests to follow.
-
Trying to learn just what’s out there in these Huben K1 pcp air rifles I am finding a lot of conflict pertaining to models made up to 4/03/2019. The ser# on the early ones to avoid seem to have a prefix of 23. Supposedly models made post 11/01/2019 come from a different factory and are warranted by Huben. But thats just what I have read and I don’t know anymore. I have been offered an earlier used one to buy and would like some advice from those that have experience that might help me not make a mistake. While I like a good price I will pay what it takes to have a good one. Old vs new…
Tom
-
I am no expert on all the changes, but it is very confusing - mostly because there is a lot of wrong information out there. People talk of something like five different versions of them, but I think there have really only been two main versions mechanically, and three different barrel sources (but I'm not sure). To add to the concerns, there was a batch made that Huben rejected for quality reasons, but they ended up being sold by the factory that made them for them anyways . . . . these are the ones with that prefix of 23. Here is the full statement from Huben, explained by one of our members: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=172738.msg155945704#msg155945704 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=172738.msg155945704#msg155945704)
Honestly, I'd reach out to Kelly on this - he is a great guy that will help you understand what the used one you are being offered really was when it left the factory (if you have the serial number) and can help you compare that to the new ones to make a decision. Use the contact form on their website and he will get back to you. He is not just someone selling stuff - he "lives" these guns . . .
Kelly will take care of you, even if it is just information you need, or a true custom set up. He has made his own factory replacement parts for custom purposes, like true .223 magazines and slug barrels, and he even made a custom .177 K1 for someone. In my case, I wanted a .22 pellet shooter that would be accurate with lighter pellets at around 30 FPE, and so I have a 2021 version but also bought a 2018 LW barrel and mag for it that do better with pellets (so I have two barrel that can run in mine shooting different things more optimally).
As a side note, with some of the other posts talking about the importance of parts availability for support on guns, I will point out that Huben gives you an exploded parts diagram with every gun and sells all the parts that go into it, if you need them. Kelly has most of the parts in stock here in the US, but also from the main company overseas.
-
Kelly at KRAZ Cool airguns: https://krazcool.com/ A++++++ That's where I bought mine from, and would do it again if I wanted another one. ;)
-
You'll be pleasantly surprised by the K1, easy to adjust power from barn safe to a fire breathing monster. Kelly is the man to buy from, phenomenal service. I bought a used .25 to give the platform a try, fell in love with it. I've since added a .22 and had Kelly build a custom .177 for me, what a rifle.
-
Kelly has provided excellent service. Good turn around times.
-
Got some time to test the AVS slugs 36gr and 38gr. These are the .221 size. Shooting at 965 fps I did not have good accuracy. The VN .223 size 28.5gr still remain the king.
Just to satisfy my curiosity, I will be testing the following slugs soon:
NSA 31.2gr .218
ZAN 28gr .219
H&N 36gr .218
-
ZAN 29 gr .219 size did not group well. On a side note, shipping was super fast for being out of country...it is quicker then most domestic suppliers.
NSA 31.2 gr .218 size did extremely well. On par with Varmint Knockers 28.5 gr .223 size. Oddly, then seem to fit the magazine tighter then the ZAN .219. These also come in at a lower price the the VN so that's a plus.
Still waiting on the H&N 36gr to come in.
-
^Testing was at 50 yards.
ZAN 29gr at 1045fps
NSA 31.2gr at 1025 fps
-
Watching closely. I still am planning to buy this rifle.
Tom
-
The Huben is a phenomenal PCP. One modification I'd like to do is a bottle conversion for more onboard air supply for higher shot count. I've seen a few do this and I think it still looks good as compared to a reservoir.
At current tune on NSA 31.2gr, I get 29 shots on the reg, not quite 2 magazines.
As of now the top slugs for 2020 Huben are:
Varmint Knockers 28.5 gr .223 at 1045fps
NSA 31.2 gr .218 at 1025fps
H&N 36gr .218 are next to try out.
-
I can’t complain about the shot count as most of my shooting is off of my upstairs deck, about 20’ away from my compressor. I feel my wallet rising. At present my complaints with other pcp rifles is a drop off of target accuracy due to bbl fouling. Close inspection has shown me a poor quality bore is common. I have heard that the 2020 Huben K1 rifle with it’s Chinese made bbl is superior in accuracy to the older model that used the Lothar/ Walther bbl. Any truth to that?
Tom
-
Tom,
As always, accuracy is a function of what you want to shoot, and how that barrel reacts to that ammo . . . .
Mine is s 2021 .22 cal K1, so it came with the latest unchoked Chinese barrel. I did minimal testing with slugs with it, as I mostly want an ~30 FPE accurate pellet shooter for 50 yards and under, preferably with pellets like JSB Hades, Jumbo, and Jumbo Heavy (so 16 - 18 grain) for good speeds at that power level. While I have heard of people having versions of this barrel do well with pellets, mine did not group well enough for me with them no matter what I did - grouping was around 1" at 25 yards and degraded further out.
I tried polishing the barrel and a multiple things with the baffle stack, but it never got better. I did try the JSB Redesigned Monsters and they did very well, but that was higher power than I wanted, and I simply could not get those last year so I only had one tin to work with.
I pretty much expected this from my conversations with Kelly, but we had a plan for when I purchased the gun - he had some of the prior generation LW barrels and mags from conversions he made to TJ slug liner guns for other folks, so I bought a barrel (set up in a "mount" for easy swaps to the action) and that barrel improved the accuracy significantly with pellets. It is not my most accurate gun, but it is pretty good now holding a full mag at under an inch at 50 yards. And I still have the other barrel if I ever want to get into shooting slugs, and they are easy to swap out if needed.
This LW barrel does best with the 18.1s, and while I wish it did better with the lighter stuff I can live with this. It also does very well with the Monsters too, now that I can get some. I think the issue with the lighter pellets is that the skirts get thinner and of course this gun shoots the pellets out of the magazine, so the results are very sensitive to any damage to the skirts on loading or in the firing process. I find that the bulk of a mag will do well, but the lighter pellets are more prone to throw fliers. I tried the H&N 18 and 15 pellets thinking the harder lead would help with that, but they don't shoot as well. C'est la vie . . .
Here is a full mag group of JSB 18.1s at 55 yards with the LW barrel. I'll add that the shot count is huge at the lower power levels - if I fill to about 4000 psi, I get over 5 mags of shots out of my gun as I run the regulator at 90 bar (mine functions great at this level).
-
One other thought, particularly for anyone that wants a very quiet Huben and thus will add an LDC . . .
I found this excellent one piece baffle insert and it works so much better than the factory baffle stack, at least for me. I find it quieter than stock even without the LDC mounted, and even more so with an LDC - it completely blocks air escaping through the holes in the Huben shroud, which are kind of counter productive if we add an LDC since they let "noise" get out before being damped by the LDC.
I found it to be a great addition to my gun. I had previously already build a "home made" replacement stack out of Marauder baffles that was quieter than stock, but wasted space as I had to "shim" them up to size with electrical tape to get it to center in the shroud and block airflow to the holes. As expected, this purpose built part works better than even that did.
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/wts-huben-k1-moderator-adapter-replaces-factory-baffles-22-25-cal/ (https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/wts-huben-k1-moderator-adapter-replaces-factory-baffles-22-25-cal/)
-
I put a Ronin LDC on from day 1 and haven't looked back.
-
H&N 36gr .218 did very poorly.
After hearing about those Patriot gen 2 I will have to try them out in the future.
Recap: Top slugs for 2020 Huben K1
Varmint Knockers 28.5gr .223
NSA 31.2 gr .218
Both like speeds 1020-1050 fps
-
The fun continues...more slug testing but only at 20 yards right now. My pro Chrony has been acting up and not reading in these overcast days. I will need further testing once my FX pocket Chrony arrives to dial in a tune.
Without having Chrony numbers I adjusted fps from very low to supersonic and did 5 shot groups at 20 yards. Basically at 17mpa reg and starting at 20 clicks and increasing by 2 click increments until supersonic.
I tested the new JSB KO MK2 25gr .216 size. The reason for trying these is it states right on Huben website this works well.
Unfortunately these didn't group well at all for me at any speeds.
Next is the NSA 35gr .217 size. These are displaying promising results. I will spend more time on a tune for these and take them out to a further distance.
I also have the JSB MK2 25gr .218 and the Alteros 35.8gr .2189 to try.
-
It seems like the Huben prefers medium to heavy weight projectiles the most. 28-35 grains.
-
Agreed love the gun! Biggest 2 issues IMHO the saftey and trigger nowhere near each other, and no mags. I don't shoot mine that hot. But it does like heavier ammo. JSB monsters and beasts shoot well in the 700-800fps I need. The MP5.55 is great, a guy sent me powdercoated ones and they shot faster for sure and were lasers. I have a Ronin for it but at the power levels 30fpe area the impact is much louder then the report. Being a shorter gun is also 1 of my favorite parts.
-
On a positive note, the Alteros 35.8gr in .2189 size performed excellent at 20,50 and 75 yards. Less then .5 inch. I experimented at 920fps up to 1000fps. At 17mpa I can get them around 1020fps but is an air hog.
I tuned down to 970 fps and get almost a mag and a half or about 28 shots.
Bottom line for 2020 Huben
If you want a HP projectile, go with NSA 32.8gr .218 or VN 28.5gr .223
If you want solid projectile, go with Alteros 35.8gr .2189
-
I have a 2016 Huben I bought from Mrodair that had air leak problems that Mike couldn't seem to fix and that's when I first meet Kelly, he fixed the leak and we've been friends ever since he is a wealth of information on the Hubens and has really done well with the modification he come up with for the Huben. I have found with mine it shoots the JSB 34gr redesign the best at around 900 to 950fps an have it set at 930fps right now and at 50 yards I can shoot a ragged hole or as I call it squirrel head accurate. I have the MP 34gr Huben mold and they shoot pretty good out of my 2016 but have only shot them to 50 yards as that's the distance I have in my backyard. Interesting in Jzizzle experimenting with different slugs I may have to try the NSA 32.8gr slug.
-
I shot only pellets when I first got the k1 for 500 shot break-in period. Then I switched over to slugs as I wanted this to be a dedicated high power .22 slugger.
My 2 favorite slugs are NSA 32.8 .218 and Alteros 35.8 .2189.
Both are plenty accurate. The NSA hp is devastating on small game. I need to try the solid point on game to see which is the better choice for knock down power.
-
Updates to follow.
Will be trying the AVS .2193 slugs in 36gr. This weight is the max you can comfortably fit with different style base types. (38g flat does fit though but is too close to max for possible jamming issues)
I have both flat and dish base on the way. Basically I'm looking for a hunting slug in hollow point form that equals the accuracy of the Alteros. The Alteros is a fmj style slug and while it takes small game out with authority, I do experience pass thru.
I also want to stay at the 36gr weight for maximum fpe.
Also, after 1000s of shots with the Alteros, I experienced a jam in the magazine most likely caused by user error with too low psi remaining. I was unable to use a rod to push the slug.back and had to disassemble the entire rifle to remove the barrel/mag. In doing so I did loose my tune so I will probably see how high fps I can achieve while maintaining the accuracy. Will do this with the AVS too if they show promising results.
-
Well quite disappointed in the .2193 slugs from AVS. They fit loosely in the magazine and I don't want to risk a jam so I won't bother with them.
The Alteros 35.8 gr was able to fly 1020fps maxed out at 16.5mpa regulator pressure. If higher fps is desired, the reg setting would need to be increased.
I found these slugs to perform best in the 960-980 fps realm.
Setting are 16.5 mpa and 25 clicks on power wheel. Averaging 972-979 fps. Occasionally I'll get a hot shot reading in the 990's. I wasn't able to tune that out unfortunately.
I can't say enough on the Alteros slugs. They are the most accurate slug out past 100 yards. They also fit very snug in the magazine.
I need to re-up as I went through ~500 slugs in 2 sessions.
Happy plinking!