GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Crosman Airguns => Topic started by: Spooner on May 12, 2020, 03:59:31 AM
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I am giving this some consideration for my 1322 and 1377...https://www.ebay.com/itm/SALE-ADJUSTABLE-TRIGGER-SEAR-SPRING-UPGRADE-for-Crosman-2240-2250-1740-1377-1322/291476604796?hash=item43dd5c077c:g:zEYAAMXQya1Q6fkm (https://www.ebay.com/itm/SALE-ADJUSTABLE-TRIGGER-SEAR-SPRING-UPGRADE-for-Crosman-2240-2250-1740-1377-1322/291476604796?hash=item43dd5c077c:g:zEYAAMXQya1Q6fkm)
I have read a couple threads here where a lighter trigger is mentioned and seen it referenced in a youtube video. I would like to get a little lighter pull if possible but see that it could cost me a properly working safety. while I realize that that the best safety in a gun is the person holding it, like someone said in another thread, "I like my safety to work".
this adjustable assembly would allow me to test the limits without modifying what came in the gun and looks pretty simple to install. has anyone tried this and what are your thoughts? Is it worth a try?
thanks! ;)
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Alchemy stuff tends to work so I would expect it to function well.....however slipping in a hardware store spring is super simple on the 13xx triggers. The "overcompress factory spring and reinstall" mod is also simple and effective. I have not found it at all difficult to obtain a light but reliable trigger pull in these guns.
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CCS guns have them: 2400KT, 1300KT, and 2300KT.
I think they are too expensive but you cannot buy those from Crosman if you do not have a CCS gun.
Last time I was able to buy an extra trigger shoe for less than $5(?) from them---same trigger shoes that are being sold for around $25.
Btw, your trigger will still be pretty hard so you need to cut a coil or 2.
Was able to buy Magnum Airpower trigger springs and they are pretty decent.
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Just bring your spring with you when you go to a hardware.
I had numerous springs in various gauges made for me when I was still in the Philippines and I did not pay more than $1.50..
So many small shops make them.
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These is not CCS exclusive parts - lookup the EVP's for 2300S and 2300T models on the Crosman website.
EDIT:
Part numbers; 2300-038, 2300-039, NS1200-016
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A cut down 760 hammer spring from a parts gun helped my triggers out. ;)
Not adjustable....I know. ::)
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Improving the trigger for no cost is easy on these, many vids on the process.
My 1986 had a much lighter spring than my new 1300kt.
If you are going to buy a 13xx, buy from their custom shop and get the long steel breech. Way so worth it.
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I cut a coil or more and polish the trigger components to a mirror finish and apply moly paste to all the triggers on my 1377s & 1322s. They are as good as the trigger on my P17.
Easy mod that makes a ton of difference.
I also replace the breech screw with the T8 screw from Magnum Airpower. ( don't over tighten the screw, just snug it down until the breech is firm against the tube. Use caution, it will strip the threads in the tube if overtightened.)
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both of these guns are custom CCS builds and both have the long steel breeches. the 1322 has the trigger shoe and it definitely helps. yeah, I saw the prices of those trigger shoes on eBay and I couldn't believe what they were going for, that's crazy! i'll order one for the 1377 from Crosman. I need a few things I can get cheaper from them than eBay, so that works.
the adjustable trigger from Alchemy isnt terrible bad price wise, but a little more than I would expect. I saw a video where a guy compressed the spring but he also cautioned that it could affect the trigger safety?
I gotta go to the hardware store this weekend. its a "small town" hardware store but I know they have springs of many sizes and types. ill look and see what they have before I decide which way to go with this.
thanks folks... I appreciate the ideas! 8)
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These is not CCS exclusive parts - lookup the EVP's for 2300S and 2300T models on the Crosman website.
EDIT:
Part numbers; 2300-038, 2300-039, NS1200-016
Thanks for letting us know.
I thought it was a CCS thing.
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These is not CCS exclusive parts - lookup the EVP's for 2300S and 2300T models on the Crosman website.
EDIT:
Part numbers; 2300-038, 2300-039, NS1200-016
Craig... I looked at the diagram and the parts description. its hard to tell in the picture, but is this the adjustable assembly?
I called Crosman. all of their custom shop stuff is either out of stock or allocated to pending build orders and their overall inventory is at very low levels while this pandemic is going on. the Lady I spoke to said probably in June before they can get back to the "shop" and start getting things back up to par. I didn't ask her about the other items mentioned here. once she said "low inventories on most things or out of stock" I didn't see much point. I will definitely wait for the trigger shoe... too much for that on eBay.
i'll stick to the trigger pull for now. the trigger pull isn't terrible on these guns, but I think a little lighter would be beneficial for me. ;)
I have my spare 1377, no upgrades other than a long steel breech and I will test these ideas you all gave me on that this weekend. ;)
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These is not CCS exclusive parts - lookup the EVP's for 2300S and 2300T models on the Crosman website.
EDIT:
Part numbers; 2300-038, 2300-039, NS1200-016
Craig... I looked at the diagram and the parts description. its hard to tell in the picture, but is this the adjustable assembly?
I called Crosman. all of their custom shop stuff is either out of stock or allocated to pending build orders and their overall inventory is at very low levels while this pandemic is going on. the Lady I spoke to said probably in June before they can get back to the "shop" and start getting things back up to par. I didn't ask her about the other items mentioned here. once she said "low inventories on most things or out of stock" I didn't see much point. I will definitely wait for the trigger shoe... too much for that on eBay.
i'll stick to the trigger pull for now. the trigger pull isn't terrible on these guns, but I think a little lighter would be beneficial for me. ;)
I have my spare 1377, no upgrades other than a long steel breech and I will test these ideas you all gave me on that this weekend. ;)
Baker airguns has triggers shoes for $10. They are very nice, I have one on my modded 1377. https://www.bakerairguns.com/product/trigger-shoes/ (https://www.bakerairguns.com/product/trigger-shoes/) you might want to buy a couple or some other parts to make shipping worth it.
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These is not CCS exclusive parts - lookup the EVP's for 2300S and 2300T models on the Crosman website.
EDIT:
Part numbers; 2300-038, 2300-039, NS1200-016
Craig... I looked at the diagram and the parts description. its hard to tell in the picture, but is this the adjustable assembly?
I called Crosman. all of their custom shop stuff is either out of stock or allocated to pending build orders and their overall inventory is at very low levels while this pandemic is going on. the Lady I spoke to said probably in June before they can get back to the "shop" and start getting things back up to par. I didn't ask her about the other items mentioned here. once she said "low inventories on most things or out of stock" I didn't see much point. I will definitely wait for the trigger shoe... too much for that on eBay.
i'll stick to the trigger pull for now. the trigger pull isn't terrible on these guns, but I think a little lighter would be beneficial for me. ;)
I have my spare 1377, no upgrades other than a long steel breech and I will test these ideas you all gave me on that this weekend. ;)
Some of the springs that were made for me were too soft but you can always put a washer for the spring to sit on it..Just sand off the sides so they don't overlap and hit the grips..You can also glue them together and on the pillar base so they don't rotate.
It may need 1 or 2, depending on the thickness, until the sear to hammer engagement works well.
The Magnum Air Power trigger spring is just the right tension. Bought a couple as they were quite cheap.
Too bad they are still closed.
Another nice upgrade is their Torx breech screw in stainless.
Yes, the trigger shoes are always out of stock but I was lucky enough to snag a black one (the only 1 remaining) during my PROD parts purchase.
Baker AG sells affordable serrated trigger shoes:
https://www.bakerairguns.com/product/trigger-shoes/ (https://www.bakerairguns.com/product/trigger-shoes/)
I prefer the plain ones sold by Crosman though.
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Mr. Yeti, we typed that Baker link at about the same time ;D
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Thanks guys... I'll check out bakers site tonight after work. I'm sure I can find a few things to buy, lol. ;)
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I checked out Baker Airguns and ordered two of their trigger shoes in black. I actually like the serration on them. they look very nice and at $10... beats paying what ebay wanted for just one. 8)
I went to the hardware store today before work and checked out their spring selection. they had some but the truth is I was simply unsure what to choose? I looked at them comparing to the one I took out of my spare 1377 but nothing really stood out as the right one. it isn't the cheapest option, but I am going to just order the adjustable one from Alchemy and give it a try. my 1322 is the one I want to lighten the trigger on so ill give it a go and see what happens.
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Jason put together a great How-to on crosman trigger tune
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=138633.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=138633.0)
One thing that helps is to have a way to measure trigger pull. I use one of the electronic fish or luggage scales. It is not as accurate as the dedicated trigger scales but gets you in the ball park.
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Jason put together a great How-to on crosman trigger tune
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=138633.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=138633.0)
One thing that helps is to have a way to measure trigger pull. I use one of the electronic fish or luggage scales. It is not as accurate as the dedicated trigger scales but gets you in the ball park.
thanks Stan, much appreciated! I don't have any kind of scale but I will be able to tell. I will definitely watch that tonight after work. 8)
im a "lefty" so what happens is sometimes while im squeezing the trigger I accidently push in the safety, lol. a lighter trigger pull will help me overcome that. ;)
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I have the adjustable spring seat on one of the CCS pistols. I would try Jason's approach first. Once you do the Lego block (or equivalent) and spring swap that Jason shows the spring does not have to fit in the spring channel anymore and your options for finding one are much easier (I used ones from the HF spring kit but many options exist). You can also do that part without taking anything apart (and going through the find-the-safety-detent-ball carpet search rite of passage).
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I have the adjustable spring seat on one of the CCS pistols. I would try Jason's approach first. Once you do the Lego block (or equivalent) and spring swap that Jason shows the spring does not have to fit in the spring channel anymore and your options for finding one are much easier (I used ones from the HF spring kit but many options exist). You can also do that part without taking anything apart (and going through the find-the-safety-detent-ball carpet search rite of passage).
Hahaha! Yes, I have watched videos where that little safety ball was mentioned. For someone like me with aging eyesight, that would be a terrible " right of passage" experience. :o
My goal is to do this as simple as possible until I am comfortable with the breakdown of this area of the gun. I have a third 1377 that I don't have any plans for. Basically just a stock one with a steel breech. I'll practice the options on that one before I apply this mod to the other two. ;)
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I find that if you take the tube and barrel off (front and back screws), you get easy access to the top of the trigger and the safety spring. You can see it bottom center, right at the edge of the grip on the bottom. the ball is under the spring and they can both be removed (and re-installed) in a controlled manner.
In the picture you can also see the washer/shim I put on the side of the sear. Now is a good time to pick out the thickness of the washer you want to use.
You can also see the black block I used under the sear instead of the shinny white Lego Jason used. I made it out of some Delrin before Lego fit was discovered.
Once the ball issue is out of the way, working trigger parts is relatively easy.
Hope that helps, good luck.
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spooner-
craigh
is right
the only parts needed are
2300-038 spring spacer
2300-039 nut for spacer
he also listed the spring
NS1200-016
I would get the spring from just about anyplace
it isn't much just a lighter one
even if you bought all three from
crosman
it would cost you about half or less
and even with shipping
$4
you will be ahead
All my 13XX's have these in them
just
sayn
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Jason put together a great How-to on crosman trigger tune
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=138633.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=138633.0)
One thing that helps is to have a way to measure trigger pull. I use one of the electronic fish or luggage scales. It is not as accurate as the dedicated trigger scales but gets you in the ball park.
thanks Stan, much appreciated! I don't have any kind of scale but I will be able to tell. I will definitely watch that tonight after work. 8)
im a "lefty" so what happens is sometimes while im squeezing the trigger I accidently push in the safety, lol. a lighter trigger pull will help me overcome that. ;)
I am also left handed. Here is a link to some great SS LH safeties. I have two and love them. Need a couple more lol He also makes them in brass. Spend $25 for free shipping. For order cheaper than $25 you will need to contact Don.
https://cothranmachine.com/ss-safety-left-handed/ (https://cothranmachine.com/ss-safety-left-handed/)
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That picture was excellent Stan... i could see all in there and gave me a perfect perspective on what was done and where. I had time before going in the door so I went ahead and read the thread. I do cnc machining for a living, so I understood what he was talking about with regard to die roll, break, and tear. The lego was genius... funny, but genius. I still got a little ways to go before I go that far in comfortably, but everything he explained makes perfect sense. I would have to study a little closer what he did to reshape the sear, but I think I get it. I'm hoping this weekend to be able to sit down with my spare 1377 and do a teardown and reassembly of the trigger section. Once I do that, I'll be at ease with this. the washer idea for loose play is nice and I have a bunch of SS shims that I use in my RC helicopter stuff that I am pretty
sure will fit.
thanks Johnny... that is definitely the simplest solution for sure. The problem is that Crosman says the same thing everytime I call them about any part. They just can't be of much help right now and understandably so. With them all working at home, it has been difficult just to even reach them. Once things return to some sense of normal for everyone and they have a chance to restock i can make an order that includes everything I need rather than a piece here, a piece there, and pay shipping once. For now, the adjustable will get me what I need on the 1322, which isnt much, and I can experiment with these other great options on my spare gun as I go. ;)
Thanks MI Yeti... ill check them out. 8)
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Robert, Sounds like a good plan. Just one note, you do not want to reshape the sear on the corner where it contacts the hammer. I inadvertently slightly rounded that corner on a 1322 and it would not hold.
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Robert, Sounds like a good plan. Just one note, you do not want to reshape the sear on the corner where it contacts the hammer. I inadvertently slightly rounded that corner on a 1322 and it would not hold.
Thanks for the heads up Stan ;D. I will study that thread very thoroughly before I make any changes to the sear itself. I'll be using my spare 1377 for anything like this so if I make a mistake, no big deal as it won't affect the other two. I can always replace a part on the spare and try again until I get it right before attempting it on the two I use. ;)
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I went the safe route - compressed the existing spring in a vise to the max.
Too short. Pulled spring by hand to lengthen it. Not enough - would not cock.
Pulled spring more by hand - now it cocks and is a lighter trigger.
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my adjustable trigger spring came yesterday and I installed it in my 1322 carbine. it works great and I now have a lighter trigger. did the bump test as well with no inadvertent hammer release. that with the trigger shoe that Crosman added... this one is now exactly how I want it.
I sat down tonight to break down the trigger assembly on my spare 1377 ... couldn't get the rear screw to come loose without damaging it. I tried a properly matching flat screw driver as well as a square head driver. I haven't tried heating it with a soldering pencil, im assuming I am fighting Loctite here, but have to find my mini ratchet and driver set before I attempt this again. I wont risk stripping these bolts out. I also don't want to risk chasing that tiny spring and ball across a dark tan carpet by taking the side cover off before removing the trigger assembly from the pump tube. i'll pick this up again tomorrow.
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If it is the rear barrel screw that is located by the probe, it is highly recommended to apply downward pressure on the back of the barrel to relieve pressure on that screw, before attempting to turn it loose, reverse helps with assembly also.
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I went the safe route - compressed the existing spring in a vise to the max.
Too short. Pulled spring by hand to lengthen it. Not enough - would not cock.
Pulled spring more by hand - now it cocks and is a lighter trigger.
I have a fender washer that just slips over a Philips screwdriver.
I drop the spring onto the screwdriver and then compress it by hand with the washer.
And yes if you go too far you can stretch it back out a little. ;D
Not my idea....saw this once on a YT video!
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If it is the rear barrel screw that is located by the probe, it is highly recommended to apply downward pressure on the back of the barrel to relieve pressure on that screw, before attempting to turn it loose, reverse helps with assembly also.
Thanks James ;). I just want to remove the trigger housing from the pump tube without dis-assembling the rest. The barrel screws were out last year when I changed to a steel breech so those are good. I just gotta get the right combination of tools is all.
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Yeah, a square bit with a wrench on it is what I think I used the first time.
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Also, if you don't have a hanging scale, another way to get the measurement is to use a kitchen scale, put a weight on it that's heavier than your expected trigger pull and pull up on it with a cord looped over the trigger. If you have an electronic scale, if you tare it before you lift, you'll get the measurement directly, otherwise just subtract. If you use something soft (spring, bungee, etc.) in the lift cord it is easier to approach the trigger break. The reading depends on where on the trigger you pull so pick a spot similar to your finger and mark it to get repeatable measurements.
Yes, best done unloaded otherwise you have to explain (or cover) that little hole in the ceiling.
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Yeah, a square bit with a wrench on it is what I think I used the first time.
thanks Stan... I finally got it. I had a handle driver and the correct square tip bit and got the rear frame bolt out. i'll need to replace that one though as it is a little rough. I followed the tip to hold the gun upright, hold it all together and remove it slowly by separating the trigger frame straight down... no flying spring and ball 8). I had to heat one of the frame cover screws to get it free and i'll need to replace it as well. it is on the verge of its hex being stripped out. gotta love that Loctite, lol. anyway... I got in it, looked it all over, re-read that thread, and see where and how all these improvements are done. pretty straight forward and I am very comfortable with it all now. once I get some washers, (my RC stuff was too small), i'll experiment on this spare 1377 making the changes to the sear shown in that thread, take the loose play out of the trigger and sear, lighten the trigger spring a little, then move on to the two I use once I have done it correctly on the spare one.
unfortunately, I don't have any kind of scales I can use so I just have to do this by "feel". its ok though, I only needed a little, I got it on the 1322, and it feels really good now. yeah, lol, any appearance of small holes to the inside of the house will result in large bumps appearing on my head, hahaha. :o
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As a replacement screw - I have used 8-32 x 3/4 and a Dremel cutoff for the proper length.
The front one I also used a washer - rear one not.
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As a replacement screw - I have used 8-32 x 3/4 and a Dremel cutoff for the proper length.
The front one I also used a washer - rear one not.
Thanks Robert, if these are just 8-32 screws I can get any size and type at work. 8)
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Have you seen Davids blog: r.e. Post #2... Modifaction #1 - Sear Spring Adjuster "Tuning" Mod ?
http://www.alchemyairwerks.com/alchemy-blog (http://www.alchemyairwerks.com/alchemy-blog)
I'm considering getting it too.
http://www.alchemyairwerks.com/store/p141/ADJUSTABLE_TRIGGER_SEAR.html (http://www.alchemyairwerks.com/store/p141/ADJUSTABLE_TRIGGER_SEAR.html)
I use a lighter spring for the 1377 / 1322 sear like everyone else does and it does work pretty good; but, I think those adjustable trigger sears and the how to DIY at the blog to be worthwhile.
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Have you seen Davids blog: r.e. Post #2... Modifaction #1 - Sear Spring Adjuster "Tuning" Mod ?
http://www.alchemyairwerks.com/alchemy-blog (http://www.alchemyairwerks.com/alchemy-blog)
I'm considering getting it too.
http://www.alchemyairwerks.com/store/p141/ADJUSTABLE_TRIGGER_SEAR.html (http://www.alchemyairwerks.com/store/p141/ADJUSTABLE_TRIGGER_SEAR.html)
I use a lighter spring for the 1377 / 1322 sear like everyone else does and it does work pretty good; but, I think those adjustable trigger sears and the how to DIY at the blog to be worthwhile.
I haven't seen that blog but I will check it out. Looks like a pretty good read.
Yes, that is the adjustable trigger I am using and I like it very much. There are cheaper ways to do this but I like the fact that I can change it without removing it. Give it a turn, test it, and done. It is a bit pricey for what it is but for my purposes... it was worth it.
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I was able to sit down tonight and experiment a little with my spare 1377. I love the washer idea for the sear and the trigger. it is amazing how much smoother the action is with the slop gone. haven't polished the sear and trigger yet, that will be next. replaced all the housing and trigger frame bolts with much better ones from work. I went with Allen heads for the two trigger frame bolts... much easier to work with than those slotted / square driver bolts. 8)
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Looks like you tested positive for the MOD-IT virus. Yes this forum is a known hot spot.
I found that the notch in the rear sight is a little wide for the front blade on the 13xx guns. I first made some new metal blades with a smaller notch but I have access to a 3D printer and ended up printing a few until they looked the right width. https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=172946.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=172946.0)
Then a nice set of DIY grips is just a few Dremel hours away.
And then.....
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Looks like you tested positive for the MOD-IT virus. Yes this forum is a known hot spot.
I found that the notch in the rear sight is a little wide for the front blade on the 13xx guns. I first made some new metal blades with a smaller notch but I have access to a 3D printer and ended up printing a few until they looked the right width. https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=172946.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=172946.0)
Then a nice set of DIY grips is just a few Dremel hours away.
And then.....
lol Stan... yep, looks like I got it alright! ;D
I saw that when I was researching past threads. you did a great job on that 8). My eyesight isn't what it use to be so I went with a reflex dot sight on the 1377, and the big scope on my 1322 carbine.