GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Diana Airguns => Topic started by: sbsyncro on May 08, 2020, 01:28:21 AM
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Tomorrow the man in the brown truck is delivering my first “serious” airgun...
The deal at AoA was too good to pass up ($245 shipped). I also ordered a Diana ZR Bullseye scope mount and now I’m trying to decide whether to mount it with one of the excess cheapie scopes I have laying around while I break it in or whether I should just go all-in and get a Leupold 3-9 EFR AO... (or maybe just an inexpensive Hawke Vantage 3-9 x 40 AO)
Anyway, there is not much information I can find on this gun, so I thought I’d put out an open request for any tips/tricks that anyone can offer about the particular rifle.
I know to keep an eye on all the screws. I have a Wheeler’s FAT wrench and will check torque on everything out of the box and probably put on some blue loctite immediately.
I’ll also give it a good cleaning.
I got an assortment of about 5 different varieties of .22 pellets from a buddy to see what she likes.
I’ve also seen references to making this gun a bit more “shootable” by tuning it down a bit, but I’m not clear on how one does that with a gas ram gun... (?)
Anyway, thanks in advance for the tips and tricks and any other info about this gun!
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You're right. With the gas spring you're not going to tune it down. Clean the barrel well - they're normally pretty dirty from the manufacturing process. The gun will be quite difficult to cock due to the strong spring. The pivot screw may be too tight from the factory making cocking even more difficult. You may need to loosen the pivot screw a bit. Pull your front stock retaining screws. They will probably have star washers under them. Place a small flat washer between the star washer and the stock. Star washers eat stocks. You should break the barrel in with a fairly soft pellet - JSB pellets are relatively soft. Lubricate the cocking slot with a moly type lube. By all means use the zero recoil mount. If you have an inexpensive scope that's fine - the ZR mount should prevent harm to whatever you use. The mount is too long for many compact scopes - it requires a tube length of about 4 3/4" between the belled ends. Be prepared to practice a LOT to become proficient with that gun. Heavier pellets may tame it some but it is a BEAST!!
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Some great info. Thank you. The way everyone describes this gun I’m expecting to Soil my pants, drain my bladder, lose my shoes and rip my arm out of my socket when I shoot it for the first time! (Can’t wait!). ;D
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Some great info. Thank you. The way everyone describes this gun I’m expecting to Soil my pants, drain my bladder, lose my shoes and rip my arm out of my socket when I shoot it for the first time! (Can’t wait!). ;D
Let us know how it goes... that rifle is on my wishlist... and with that deal, I might need to jump on getting myself one sooner than later. It sounds like you’re well prepared for what needs to be done for you’re first, albeit powerful rifle. I wasn’t so prepared for my first (I found GTA well after). I broke 2 scopes, trying lighter pellets, and haven’t since. But, clean it, check your screws and be patient. And since you have a friend that shoots, all the more better. As for tuning it down, with the proper equipment, some gas rams can be adjusted for internal pressure. If it were me, I wouldn’t on a .22. I should think a pellet from 14gr. to 18gr. should keep it well under 1000 FPS. Should be able to tame it.
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Congratulations on your new gun.
I have a Diana 340 N-tec Compact Luxus. Similar, but not the same.
When I first got mine, the barrel pivot was so tight that it took about 80 lbs of force to cock the gun and another 80 lbs of force to close the barrel after loading.
Yes, adjust the tension on the barrel pivot bolt if this is your case.
Also, the leade, loading port has a chamfer on it. Mine was so tight that it clipped and bent the bottom of the pellet skirts when you closed the barrel. A little JB non-embedding bore paste and a brass brush and some elbow grease fixed that.
The stock is a bit different. I love it! It is the most attractive gun I own. The blueing under my muzzle brake is very poor, I do intent to reblue the last 3-4 inches of my barrel.
The finish is not deeply blued. I believe that it is Parkerized instead of blued. I hope yours has the gold trigger blade. ;)
Take pictures and let us know how you like it.
Oh, one last thing, my gun LOVES the copper coated FTT 14.6 grain pellets. The more corroded the better. It can shoot 1/2 inch groups at 31 yards.
Trigger is a great hunting trigger, more one stage than 2.
HTH,
-Yogi
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Some great info. Thank you. The way everyone describes this gun I’m expecting to Soil my pants, drain my bladder, lose my shoes and rip my arm out of my socket when I shoot it for the first time! (Can’t wait!). ;D
Wear diapers. ;)
-Y
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Tomorrow the man in the brown truck is delivering my first “serious” airgun...
The deal at AoA was too good to pass up ($245 shipped). I also ordered a Diana ZR Bullseye scope mount and now I’m trying to decide whether to mount it with one of the excess cheapie scopes I have laying around while I break it in or whether I should just go all-in and get a Leupold 3-9 EFR AO... (or maybe just an inexpensive Hawke Vantage 3-9 x 40 AO)
Anyway, there is not much information I can find on this gun, so I thought I’d put out an open request for any tips/tricks that anyone can offer about the particular rifle.
I know to keep an eye on all the screws. I have a Wheeler’s FAT wrench and will check torque on everything out of the box and probably put on some blue loctite immediately.
I’ll also give it a good cleaning.
I got an assortment of about 5 different varieties of .22 pellets from a buddy to see what she likes.
I’ve also seen references to making this gun a bit more “shootable” by tuning it down a bit, but I’m not clear on how one does that with a gas ram gun... (?)
Anyway, thanks in advance for the tips and tricks and any other info about this gun!
Congrats on a great price for a magnum springer!
Are you already a veteran shooter? Have you shot other mags?
If so, take pics and send us your success stories!
If not, be patient; start practicing at a shorter distance (like 10 yards) and work out from there. Do try a lot of pellets to see if your new gun is picky or if it gives you similar results.
Lastly, my rifles exhibited different break in traits: the Gamo took over 1,000 pellets to settle in (rated at 1300 fps), was very pellet picky but not hold sensitive. My Crosman (rated at 1200 fps) settled in with less than 100 shots but remain pellet picky and hold sensitive, with a trigger that screams to be replaced. My Weihrauchs shot incredible from the first first pellet.
Most of all, enjoy what I read Hector M. says is a truly innovative gun!
Archie
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Word of note on gas rammed guns and something Hector has mentioned and that's storing it when not in use. Gas rams have a small amount of silicone inside them to keep the seals in the ram lubricated. Not sure how the ram is installed in that one, but they need to be stored with the ram body up so that silicone stays down and around those seals so they don't dry out.
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While trying out pellets, check out the Straightshooters.com site. They have a pellet sampler pack that has 25 each of 18 different pellets to try.
Since yours is brand-new, I suggest/agree that you should shoot a whole tin of softer pellets to begin to break it in before getting serious with choosing a pellet.
I use the ZR mounts exclusively on my Diana/RWS 54s and haven't had a problem with any scope since. Don't invest in a new scope for it until you figure out what you need.
One thing that I ran into is that some scopes for "target" have very fine cross hairs and dots that are very difficult to see against anything but a white paper background. If your desire is to shoot vermin with it, I suggest a bit coarser crosshairs or "lighted" ones. I have a Hawke in the box that will be going on one of my 54s to fix the crosshair problem shortly. Perhaps even today.
Cheers and good luck.
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In my airgun shooting, “90+++” % is with the Diana 350 .22 (coils spring). Dozens of thousands rounds. The more consistent pellet has been the HN Field Target Trophy (“FTT”), and I choose the 5.53.
After a looong learning curve about holding, resting, squeezing the trigger, my WORST!!! nightmare is when I suspect the scope is not anymore capable of holding zero (or would it just be that usual shooter inconsistency?).
So, to start, and besides a ‘dampa’ mount, I would go with a Hawke Airmax.
Just to let you know, my all-in in progress (interrupted by the virus), is – 2 dampa mounts (at the same time) and a Hawke Airmax 30 mm.
Btw, I didn’t find a Leupold with a reticle that I like, and the parallax is usually not adjustable.
Just in case, I think that (finally..) I found out an ‘approach’ to know if a scope is STILL trustable -
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=169344.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=169344.0)
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Thanks everyone! I received a bunch of pellets from a friend that no longer shoots 22. Since I have not seen brinell numbers published on any of these pellets, perhaps someone in the know can tell me the relative hardness/softness of what I have on hand:
Crosman Copperhead (Wadcutter, 14.7 grn on my scale)
RWS Hobby Sport Line (Wadcutter, 11.9 grn)
H & N Baracuda (Domed, 21.1 grn)
Crosman Premier (Hollow Point, 14.3 grn)
In addition, he gave me a box full of jumbled random pellets, which I sorted and weighed. Perhaps you can help me ID them:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/924/nxpIeb.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/4f8nkR.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/924/NgUFTi.jpg)
I have about 20 to 50 of each of these...
The first ones (21.1 grain) look a lot like the H&N Baracudas...
Which of these do you recommend for break-in?
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From the mixed pellets shoot them all in sequence - 5 shot groups each at about 20 yds. It will help get your barrel broken in. Take the better ones, shoot additional groups until they are all gone.
Try the tins your friend gave you. They cover a substantial weight range and should give you an idea of how the rifle does. Personally, I haven't had good luck with the copper coated pellets. The wadcutters probably won't do well in your high power gun. Most likely you will do best with the domed pellets because the weight is forward and they have higher ballistic coefficients. Generally, a velocity around 850f/s will give best accuracy in most air rifles. The very light pellet might get close to supersonic and not be too stable.
I estimate hardness with my calibrated thumb and forefinger. Squeeze a pellet to see if you can deform it. The harder you have to squeeze, the harder the pellet.
Second, and my real recommendation after doing the above to season the barrel a little and get used to the rifle with no real investment. Go to Straightshooters.com, buy their sampler pack for the .22. (About $40 total) It will have 25 each of 18 different "better" pellets from different vendors pellets. Repeat group shooting to compare accuracy. From that group, buy a tin of the top three and keep practicing until you are happy with your results.
H&N and JSB are among the best pellets I have used. Others will give you their thoughts but your results from your rifle are what you need. LISTEN TO ROADWORTHY ON PELLETS AND BREAKING IN...
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...
In addition, he gave me a box full of jumbled random pellets, which I sorted and weighed. Perhaps you can help me ID them:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/924/nxpIeb.jpg)
...
Which of these do you recommend for break-in?
L - R
H&N Baracuda (or Baracuda Match), H&N Baracuda Hunter Extreme, H&N Crow Magnum, JSB Predator Polymag, RWS Super Hollowpoint, JSB RS (or Air Arms Falcon).
You can test them all, but the RS and Hobbies might be too light for good shot cycle and accuracy from the 350.
Have fun!
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You guys are awesome. I'm on a lot of different forums (too many hobbies!) and I have to say that my experience here in the short 24 hours since I joined has been amazing. The signal-to-noise ratio seems extremely high. :D
Research Prep, Phase I Complete:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/KcLOx3.jpg)
Btw, I didn’t find a Leupold with a reticle that I like, and the parallax is usually not adjustable.
This is the one I was looking at: Leupold VX-Freedom EFR 3-9x33. (this forum does not allow links?). I don't have one, but it looks like really nice setup for hunting.
Adjustable objective from about 8 yards. My biggest concern is that the distance between bells may be a hair short for the Diana Bullseye mount. Looking at the specs for the Leupold, the mounting area is 122mm and the total length of the Diana Bullseye mount is 121mm. A tight fit, to be sure...
I was thinking about the Hawke Airmax 3-9×40 AO AMX, but the mounting surface is only 114mm, so the Diana mount won't fit...
The one thing I do know for sure is that I won't be going with a Leapers or UTG scope. They are purportedly great values, but I just don't like all the gadgetry at a $100 price point (36 color reticle? Seriously?)
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Since you said you are 50tting a ZR base, you have a broad range of scopes. I have a Hawke Advantage 4-12x50 that has plenty of length to put on with the ZR base. I also checked a other scopes in my inventory Bushnell, Sightron, Weaver, all of which had sufficient room to be adjusted to get the eye relief where I wanted it.
Diana/RWS 54s are known as scope killers too. However, I have only lost one scope before I got the zr bases. It was the OEM RWS scope that came with the rifle on the one piece RWS drooper mount. Since I bought the rifle used, I don't really know how old it was but I used it for 5+years and many thousands of shots. It failed by the objective lens loosening and a broken o-ring / seal being visible inside. If I had wanted, I suspect that putting a bead of silicone around the outside of the objective bell would have fixed it. But I wanted a new toy so.....
Most important is to get a reticle system that you like. I have a Weaver T series scope that has such a fine reticle and 1/8" minute dot that I can't see the darn thing.
Brand new, bought as a 1/4 price close out, it lives in a box. The second is the a Sightron (wonderful mid-priced scope!!!) that has a more elaborate MOA type reticle. Against a target background, its wonderful. Against a green/tree background while assassinating chipmunks, I can barely see the reticle at all!!! A warning though, I have serious vision issues that are getting worse with age... Your results would probably be different!!
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You guys are awesome. I'm on a lot of different forums (too many hobbies!) and I have to say that my experience here in the short 24 hours since I joined has been amazing. The signal-to-noise ratio seems extremely high. :D
Research Prep, Phase I Complete:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/KcLOx3.jpg)
Btw, I didn’t find a Leupold with a reticle that I like, and the parallax is usually not adjustable.
This is the one I was looking at: Leupold VX-Freedom EFR 3-9x33. (this forum does not allow links?). I don't have one, but it looks like really nice setup for hunting.
Adjustable objective from about 8 yards. My biggest concern is that the distance between bells may be a hair short for the Diana Bullseye mount. Looking at the specs for the Leupold, the mounting area is 122mm and the total length of the Diana Bullseye mount is 121mm. A tight fit, to be sure...
I was thinking about the Hawke Airmax 3-9×40 AO AMX, but the mounting surface is only 114mm, so the Diana mount won't fit...
The one thing I do know for sure is that I won't be going with a Leapers or UTG scope. They are purportedly great values, but I just don't like all the gadgetry at a $100 price point (36 color reticle? Seriously?)
FWIW-On my first airgun, I put a $300 scope on a $200 gun. ;D
For extra $$ you can send the Leopold in to their custom shop and they will put any reticle you want in them.
My 340 N-tec wears an Optisan Cobra 3-9 X 40 scope. This is my hunting rig and it is DEADLY.
-Y
PS with enough posts you will be able to post pictures and links.
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I hope you are not disappointed, but A of A's website say that the 350 N-tec weights 6.7 lbs. WRONG! Closer to 8.5-9 lbs.HTH.
-Y
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I hope you are not disappointed, but A of A's website say that the 350 N-tec weights 6.7 lbs. WRONG! Closer to 8.5-9 lbs.HTH.
-Y
I knew that had to be wrong, even with the beech “classic” stock which is slimmer than the “premium” version. Heck I have a CZ452 American in 17hmr that weighs more than that!
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You're right. With the gas spring you're not going to tune it down. Clean the barrel well - they're normally pretty dirty from the manufacturing process. The gun will be quite difficult to cock due to the strong spring. The pivot screw may be too tight from the factory making cocking even more difficult. You may need to loosen the pivot screw a bit. Pull your front stock retaining screws. They will probably have star washers under them. Place a small flat washer between the star washer and the stock. Star washers eat stocks. You should break the barrel in with a fairly soft pellet - JSB pellets are relatively soft. Lubricate the cocking slot with a moly type lube. By all means use the zero recoil mount. If you have an inexpensive scope that's fine - the ZR mount should prevent harm to whatever you use. The mount is too long for many compact scopes - it requires a tube length of about 4 3/4" between the belled ends. Be prepared to practice a LOT to become proficient with that gun. Heavier pellets may tame it some but it is a BEAST!!
Rifle just arrived. Boy you weren't kidding about the pivot being tight - I can barely swing it closed after it is cocked. Does loosening the pivot also decrease accuracy?
Also does regular automotive moly (assmembly lube) do the trick?
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When the cocking shoe is disengaged, the rule of thumb to the pivot torque usually is - 'just enough' to barely hold the barrel. No problems with accuracy.
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Pull your front stock retaining screws. They will probably have star washers under them. Place a small flat washer between the star washer and the stock. Star washers eat stocks.
I just took apart my 350 Mag, there were star washers under the stock retaining screws, and sure enough one of them had already started to chew into the stock, as tiny wood chips fell out. Thanks for the heads up - this place is invaluable!
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Well, I broke the new gun out of the box on Friday and pulled all the stock and action screws, placed metal washers under the star washers, and used a good coat of Vibra-Tite (blue) on all the threads. Installed the Diana Bullseye mount, and then installed a cheapie Simmons 3-9 that I had laying around from an old .22.
Trying to cock it for the first time, I was shocked at the effort required. I pulled the action off the stock again and loosened the pivot screw until the arm would swing more easily, but would still stay in position. Then buttoned everything back up with more locktite, cleaned the barrel with some M-Pro 7 (non oil-based) and felt patches using a pull-through cleaner. Oiled the pivots and trigger with some Hoppe's silicone oil, then I let it sit for two days.
Yesterday I finally had a few hours in the afternoon to do some break-in using a target box at 20 yards. I centered both turrets of the scope and within about 10 shots had it reasonably well zero'd (within the margin of variation with the way the gun was shooting).
I then ran about 100 or so of the pellets I had the greatest quantity of - Crosman Premier HP (14.3). and saw my technique improve and the groups start to settle down.
I find that the LOP on this gun is a bit short for me. I'm not a big guy, but I have long forearms so I usually find myself preferring guns built for "tall people". In fact the LOP is identical to the tiny little Beeman Falcon II which is essentially a kid's gun (I think). Other than feeling a bit crowded while "in the cockpit", I find the overall balance and handling of the gun to be really nice. With the ZR mount (but no scope) it weighs in at 9 lbs 3 oz so it is by no means light weight.
In terms of shooting dynamics, I was very surprised by two things when I pulled the trigger the first time. (1) the trigger breaks with almost no effort (and very crisp) and (2) this sucker actually punches back! In fact it immediately reminded me of a 30-30 I have in the sharpness of the recoil. I was holding it off my shoulder (thinking that I wanted to isolate the gun for accuracy) and it popped me good and now I have a nice bruise! That was a lesson about magnum airguns!
In terms of accuracy it is still way too early to tell, as the gun has maybe a total of 200 rounds through it (and I am still learning to shoot it well). But here are some targets in sequence:
First 5 shot group with Crosman Premier HP (14.3) after zero'ing the scope:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9936/DTvnFl.jpg)
An encouraging start!
While I'm still learning how to shoot this gun (and it is still breaking in), its clear that it prefers heavier pellets. Most encouraging early results seem to be the Crosman Premier, H & N Baracuda (21.1), and maybe the RWS Super HP (14.5). I was surprised that the JSB Predator Polymag did as well as they did (and would probably be better with greater skill on my part) and the other surprise was the relatively lightweight JSB RS (13.4).
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/QP8CYf.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/924/GJMWJm.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/924/wHZAtR.jpg)
Can't wait to get some more range time with it. I'm headed to Bend, OR next weekend and I will be taking it with me. Rabbit season is year round there (unlike CA) and I might get a non-resident hunting license and see if I can get some bunnies for the stew pot while I'm there...
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In my experience with gas ram guns they prefer a slightly tighter hold, at least in the shoulder than coil springs guns do. ;)
-Y
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I find that the LOP on this gun is a bit short for me. I'm not a big guy, but I have long forearms so I usually find myself preferring guns built for "tall people". In fact the LOP is identical to the tiny little Beeman Falcon II which is essentially a kid's gun (I think). Other than feeling a bit crowded while "in the cockpit", I find the overall balance and handling of the gun to be really nice. With the ZR mount (but no scope) it weighs in at 9 lbs 3 oz so it is by no means light weight.
Get a thicker butt pad!
https://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/7397150/7720537.htm (https://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/7397150/7720537.htm)
-Y
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I find that the LOP on this gun is a bit short for me. I'm not a big guy, but I have long forearms so I usually find myself preferring guns built for "tall people". In fact the LOP is identical to the tiny little Beeman Falcon II which is essentially a kid's gun (I think). Other than feeling a bit crowded while "in the cockpit", I find the overall balance and handling of the gun to be really nice. With the ZR mount (but no scope) it weighs in at 9 lbs 3 oz so it is by no means light weight.
Get a thicker butt pad!
--link deleted because I'm not allowed to post links yet, apparently!---
Any idea if that is a direct fit, or will require sanding? If the latter, I'd probably go with an even thicker one from a shotgun just to increase the LOP as much as possible...
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The strongest recoil is to the front, when the piston reaches the end of its course.
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On the new old yellow. Read second stickie in airgun talk. "How to treat your Woden stock"
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Finally got to spend a little more time with the rifle last night (I'm visiting family near Bend, OR and managed to scrounge some cardboard, plywood and woden stakes from the barn). Not an ideal shooting range (sitting on a plastic lawn chair) but I'm starting to get the hang of shooting this gun. One thing I notice is that I can usually hit within a dime of my intended target on my first shot shooting from my knees while seated, but that subsequent shots tend to wander.
I think its the same problem many golfers have - thinking too much about the subsequent shots by trying to carefully duplicate everything done in the first shot...
I was also surprised to find that the gun shot about 4" high at 25 yards when zero'd at 18 yards with Crosman 14.3 grain Premier HPs. Didn't expect that much of an arc! What is the best source for plotting trajectories in airguns? I'll need to figure this out and come up with a good dope sheet before I take this gun hunting...
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/924/1oWYGm.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/BzvT7z.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/922/p799qq.jpg)
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I use the ChairGun app. But like a lot of guys would tell you every parameter needs to be right for it to work. And sometimes it’s still not perfect. And there are other apps and programs, but I like ChairGun best, I have it on my phone and iPad. All (4) my break barrels are zero’d at 30 meters (33 yards). My target backers are 2’x2’ and after I’ve zero’d my rifle I take a plain backer and with a thick black marker I draw a straight vertical line down the middle and near the top, with a little room, I put a 1” orange target spot. I move that target further back 5 meters or 10 meters and see where the shots hit to get a real world idea and note the drop from the spot (POA) to POI I see in my scope. This pic is not the best, it was a 40 yard zero, it’s the only example I have, but you get the idea. If you’re going to start closer and think you might get a rising POI, move the spot down on the line.
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Johh, besides seconding ChairGun and your verification box... I have a couple comments and a question:
What gun was that shot with, pellet, etc.
Also, that is both some fine shooting, and a superbly adjusted zero!
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Thanks, Jeff. That was the Diana AMO3 Stealth .22 early on, with the H&N Field target Trophy 5.53mm 14.66 gr. It shoots a lot tighter now and I moved the zero since to 33 meters. The amazing shot for me was my little shooting partner (Ayrabella, she’s 7) took a shot at 50 meters with her 760P, quite a drop, but near center. ;D
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That girl is going to be teaching you a thing or two in a little while! :)
Watching the young girls in my family a couple (or three :) generations younger I'm blown away at how much further ahead of me they are. It's humbling to say the least.
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I hope so, she’s been shooting with me since she was about 4, she has 3 rifles, is small for her size. But she loves airguns.
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Finally got to spend a little more time with the rifle last night (I'm visiting family near Bend, OR and managed to scrounge some cardboard, plywood and woden stakes from the barn). Not an ideal shooting range (sitting on a plastic lawn chair) but I'm starting to get the hang of shooting this gun. One thing I notice is that I can usually hit within a dime of my intended target on my first shot shooting from my knees while seated, but that subsequent shots tend to wander.
I think its the same problem many golfers have - thinking too much about the subsequent shots by trying to carefully duplicate everything done in the first shot...
I was also surprised to find that the gun shot about 4" high at 25 yards when zero'd at 18 yards with Crosman 14.3 grain Premier HPs. Didn't expect that much of an arc! What is the best source for plotting trajectories in airguns? I'll need to figure this out and come up with a good dope sheet before I take this gun hunting...
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/924/1oWYGm.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/BzvT7z.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/922/p799qq.jpg)
Could it be that your 18 yard zero is not an absolute zero but that the pellet path crosses the scope path at 18 yards. If so, it would also cross the pellet path at around 35 yards.
4 Inches high seems extreme though. FWIW-Absolute zero is when the scope and pellet path only cross once, at the apex of the pellets trajectory curve. This is where a crony becomes very usefull. ;) Also, perhaps you should reduce the magnification on your scope to the point where you can not see earlier pellet shots. The last shot of a good group is always the most nerve racking, Don't want to mess up my nice group... 8)
-Y
PS see if you can get a tin of H&N Sniper Heavies. Your gun my like them,
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Regarding length of pull and the stock length. There used to be rubber boots to fit over the stock to length the pull and reduce felt recoil. If you can find one try adding it to the stock and if necessary put some cardboard spacers inside to give even more length. Fiddle with it until you find the length you like then do something more permanent. By the way, you might be able to find a replacement butt place that has adjustable length. Some air guns have them that might be cobbled onto your rifle.
Look on Amazon for butt stock boots . There are several that come with up to 4 inserts to adjust length - $10-30
A warning! Many years ago when I was much younger and even dumber than I am now, I tried to put a recoil pad on an old 20gauge double using a disk and belt sander. Really messed up the stock since I mistakenly thought I could control the process by hand. NOT!!! Much later, I learned the best way to do that was to take use the existing recoil pad as a template attached to the new recoil pad to sand it to size. Much better but still easy to mess up!!! Cheaper though if you have to buy a second one!!!
Regarding the scope and the change in point of impact over relatively short distances. Try the ChairGun program with its default settings for your pellet. It has many pellets already in its data base. Then you really only have to get the distance between the centerline of the scope and the bore. You also need the velocity of the pellet. If no crony available, go to straight shooters.com website, find your rifle and pellet. They usually have velocity information for the various pellets assuming a new and un-modified rifle under a field called OUR TAKE. That will get you started.
Found a review of your new rifle. It quotes velocity of 804f/s for Crosman Premiers. Interesting it was listed as poor accuracy. Best accuracy listed: H^N FFT Green 10.0gr 972f/s. Others listed excellent JSB Jumbo Exact H&N FTT 14.6gr,
A second possible cause in the 4" change in poi is altitude and temperature differences if Bend much different from your home base it might cause it. A third one is the difference in your set-up for shooting and the bounce of the rifle on recoil. Your hold was probably different between the sessions. Air rifles can be notoriously hold sensitive because of the whip-lash recoil. (I have a niece in Bend - beautiful place. Visit the the Obsidian Deposits for an interesting lesson)
Also, most air rifle scopes have adjustable objectives so the parallax can be set to the range you are shooting. A standard rifle scope has parallax fixed at some range (usually 100yds). You can check to see if your parallax is off by holding the rifle firmly with the crosshairs centered on a bullseye. Move you head up and down a little bit. If the crosshairs appear to move on the target, your parallax isn't set right for the distance. That means, if your head position isn't exactly the same each time the impact point will move around. The parallax setting is much more critical in air rifles as the ranges are generally much shorter than powder guns.
If this is an issue, you might want a better with AO (adjustable objective) scope for the rifle's permanent partner.
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Excellent points Dave. And ones I've been thinking while reading this thread but kept silent about as I'm a mere noob here. :)
But age and experience have benefits in most things... and I have lots of both LOL. So I wait and listen a lot. And as so often happens, someone here with both those too, also have the status to properly offer advice, and usually way better than I would have.
You, for example.
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As I have found consistently to be the case on this forum, some great ideas and advice. Thank you!
Yes, I zero'd at sea level and 65-70º and now I'm around 3,200' and low 50's. I hadn't even considered that as a variable, since with a powder burner at these ranges it wouldn't make much of a difference. (Still wrapping my head around how different the dynamics are with airguns!).
The scope is a 50-yd fixed objective Simmons 22 Mag and parallax is definitely a factor - the POA moves 1-2" on target when I move my head, but I'm aware of it and trying to keep the exact cheek weld as before based on eye relief. But shooting off my knees sitting in a chair is certainly different that shooting off a bean bag on a table. That's contributing as well, I'm sure.
My plan is to eventually get much better glass on here with an adjustable objective so I can control the parallax issue. I need to figure out how to shoot this thing under field conditions, which means highly variable positions, rests, etc. I hope that is achievable! I'm hoping that with a bit of testing as outlined by @Jshooter71 I can come up with a dope sheet and then with a mil dot scope come up with some good range adjustments for 20 to 40 yards, which I believe will be my typical distances, usually shooting off sticks from a seated position.
One thing I've always done (especially when I was working up hunting loads for muzzle loaders) is come up with an MBPR based on target species. The tricky part here is that instead of having an 8-10 inch vital area and ranges from 50 to 150 yards, instead I'm working against a 2 to 3 inch vital area and ranges of 15 to 40 yards... Its like everything is miniaturized.
I was trying to explain this to my wife the other day (who is a physical therapist) and used the following example: "Imagine that all your expertise and experience in working on humans now has to be applied to a guinea pig. On a human, rotating an arm 1º off axis is not a big deal, but do it to the guinea pig and you rip the arm off!" ;D
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Brent,
Measure your length of pull. Bend your arm and measure from your bent trigger finger to the bend at the elbow.
Get an A/O scope, even a cheap one.
3,000 feet can make a difference. Their are tables that show how much.
-Y
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Brent,
Measure your length of pull. Bend your arm and measure from your bent trigger finger to the bend at the elbow.
Get an A/O scope, even a cheap one.
3,000 feet can make a difference. Their are tables that show how much.
-Y
Thanks - I have a 15-3/4" arm (without clothing) and this rifle is about 13-1/4" so it's not ideal.... I usually have to add spacers to nearly all my guns, particularly 22's, "scout" rifles,& carbines of any sort.
AO scope is absolutely on the shopping list. Trying to decide between Hawke Vantage IR or Vortex Crossfire - probably a 3-9 in either. If the economy wasn't in the tank right now (and my clients not paying their bills) I'd opt for better glass...
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Regarding:
Head wrapping: the Straightshooters.com (good guy by the way) site has a whole column of one page articles about air gun shooting and stuff on his front page that make a good basis to start from. Also, consider the difference between hard ball baseball and slow pitch softball ball trajectories to help understand the difference in ballistics.
'Thanks - I have a 15-3/4" arm (without clothing) and this rifle is about 13-1/4" so it's not ideal.... I usually have to add spacers to nearly all my guns, particularly 22's, "scout" rifles,& carbines of any sort.
AO scope is absolutely on the shopping list. Trying to decide between Hawke Vantage IR or Vortex Crossfire - probably a 3-9 in either. If the economy wasn't in the tank right now (and my clients not paying their bills) I'd opt for better glass...'
I put a 4x32 AO Winchester knockoff on a rws34 knockoff for my 13year old grand knot-head. He is shooting one hole groups at 50' with it. At the time, the scope was $25, just checked Pyramydair. $35. Also, Walmart sells Centerpoint scopes that are fairly cheap and air rifle qualified. I have one that did well and now lives on a 22. Lowest price butt pad was around $9. NOTE the trend here. I frequently will go cheap to learn and then move up and pass the knock-offs to the knot-head grandkids to learn own. My first higher power air rifle was a Walther Force 1000 (maybe?). It taught me to go to the recoiless styles in a hurry. Both it and I did'nt like the artillery hold at all!!
Otherwise, just be a bit frustrated until your clients pay up!! After a broken neck and partial paralysis, I was convinced that my PT thought I was the guinea pig. :D
Good luck and have fun.
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The name of the game is - consistency. Keep in mind that when (number of rounds) your scope reaches the end of its lifespan holding zero, game over. Trying to extend the lifespan, I would go with a Hawke Airmax.