GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Motorhead on March 29, 2020, 03:53:52 PM
-
(https://www.bmwlt.com/forums/images/smilies/toast.gif) This to be a year long journey in R&D along with product fine tuning internally as well externally.
Had this rifle on order sense August of last year. Happened to be in house able to assemble it myself a couple weeks ago and get the color combo wanted ... Black & Silver.
For purposes of production and being realistic to perhaps having JSAR produce such a version .. or at least parts & pieces somewhere down the road we need to start somewhere as a base line & while Not a clean slate but building off what JSAR already has done and can manufacture.
Internally we will being keeping it as close to stock production specs as is practical, tho some massaging and cleaning up is going to / has already happened. This being nothing more than a bit of stone/hone work on trigger sears, making a custom probe with o-ring ( 0- ring Not in barrel ) and prepping the barrel to personal specs and crowning myself. Replaced the .250" transfer port with a Tapered one with .140" exit diameter.
A few parts added such as a Single Shot Tray, Double end handle for cocking lever so you cock on handles swing center line, Block out covers for the magazine slots along with a Full length adjustable Fore Stock for use in a Bi-pod which i use as a "Hunter" class competitor.
Out on the end of barrel made a departure and used an older WAR part ... a Sliding LDC can, that also kept the barrel tensioning feature intact. It's not loud collapsed, but is silly quiet extended.
Barrel a Raptor full size spec 22" ( In lieu of 17" standard on mini's ) LW standard rifling .20 caliber ;) * love my .20's !!
Up top side sits a HAWKE Airmax 30 6-24x50 with a Scopewerks Nautilus side wheel. BKL level and one of my telescoping antenna wind flags. One piece offset mount secures it.
This rifle will be shared and folks able to shoot threw out the AAFTA west coasts Field Target season 2020 ... so if you happen to make a west coast Match where the hooligans ( self included ) from the Sac Valley FT club are present, Look me up and check it out & shoot it too.
THIS IS AN R&D venture between JSAR and MOTORHEADS AG tuning services and the set up and configuration may very well change as the season go's along, but for now we start HERE .. Enjoy 8)
Scott S
* The last picture ... Yea it shoots really really well !! Those 2 targets shot at 45 yards while sitting on a tri leg stool and shootin stocks ... 10 shots at each with a few sighters in the corner boxes. Black circle is 1"
Thinking it has a chance to make a few waves and raised eye brows ... We'll find out this 2020 season.
-
Scott,
Your Raptor Mini looks as good as it shoots. Love the personalized breech, nice touch!
You have a way with guns that's for sure, changing the o-ring from barrel & probe is great! It makes barrel machining much easier and more cost-effective & less labor-intensive.
-
"...making a custom probe with o-ring ( 0- ring Not in barrel )...."
Why that change? Just to make it easier? Because you'll never use magazines?
Recently did my Armada with an internal o-ring in the thimble. Yes - tedious to get it right.
-
"...making a custom probe with o-ring ( 0- ring Not in barrel )...."
Why that change? Just to make it easier? Because you'll never use magazines?
JSB .20's are THIN in the skirt tail and dislike pushing them threw an o-ring. Also it allows you some degree of feeling the pellet seat into barrels rifling w/o the o-ring drag at time bolt closes up.
Anything i can do in NOT damaging a pellet before shooting it gets my upmost attention.
-
It shoots.
That is for sure.
I cannot agree on the looks, though.
It looks like Johnny Cash’s 1947, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, Cadillac automobile!
-
While my full sized .20 is destined for Open class, FT is FT. Should be interesting to compare notes as we compete with them.
I made a delrin single shot tray and a thigh rest so far. The thigh rest weighed enough to make it balance better. I'd like to figure out a better knee rest option than the current plan of using a front AR type grip (needs a bigger footprint for the knee). I'll also likely buy some of the picatinny slot inserts to make the unused slots a little more hand friendly.
It's at a machinest friends house right now, getting a .22 barrel machined for if I ever want to go high power PDog killing. We discussed a new thimble with a smaller port for .20 or even a thimble with threading through the tp to allow for swappable TP restrictions. Dunno if the TP through the thimble is a viable restriction point, but maybe. It'll be fun to see what comes back when he's done with it.
Very nice work on yours. I like it, especially the machined aluminum plates for the magazine slots in the forend. I'm not a mag guy so I like the option of blocking them off-nice aesthetic there too.
-
It looks like Johnny Cash’s 1947, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, Cadillac automobile!
Ha ha, looks like a typical FT gun for sure. Function over form in FT.
-
Forgot to make note : on the adjustable fore stock that adjustment is taking loose the toggle handle WARNE scope rings and moving it any place along the picitinni rail.
As set, it is full aft where it's best suited for OFF HAND shooting, yet more that far enough out front to sit in the tripod yoke with room to spare.
* On the rear of the 1" tube passing threw the mounts is that BLACK end cap ... THAT, has a relief cut on the bottom side for your thumb to rest in while rest of hand is out on the grey rubber traction material.
Super comfy as much as one can be shooting offhand :P
-
Scott, beautiful customized Raptor Mini FT .20! Looks very ergonomic and I know with your massaging, accurate as heck! Good luck in your competitions 👍.
-
So how is anyone except an ape going to be able to wrap their hands around those grips....you have 2.5 lbs. Of tape there....
Just bustin on you...
Looks good buddy
-
Scott
Very interesting concepts/designs etc.
I am curious about the Sliding LDC can, can you provide more info on that type of LCD?
Was this LCD built JUST for your/the 20 cal or is it adaptable to other calibers, like 22 etc.
Thank you.
Don
-
Scott
Very interesting concepts/designs etc.
I am curious about the Sliding LDC can, can you provide more info on that type of LCD?
Was this LCD built JUST for your/the 20 cal or is it adaptable to other calibers, like 22 etc.
Thank you.
Don
Don,
The sliding can was on the early WAR Flexs and Warp guns. Barrel has a full length shroud over it and then there is an air stripper that threads onto end of barrel. This stripper shoulders up against the shroud tube allowing it to be tightened and in turn tension barrel. Out on end of stripper assembly it has a large ring on it that holds an O.D. o-ring and slides within the can I.D. Behind that is a collar that threads into the back end of can and it contains an I.D. o-ring that slides along the 1" shroud tube. Both have a pretty tight interference fit and takes a bit of a tug and twist to get them sliding. Muzzle end of can the end cap is threaded on.
The end cap has a small cone shape that when slid back all the way shoulders up against the end of stripper assembly and PREVENTS any air from getting into the can blowing it forward. Once it is moved out a very short distance the expelled pressure of the shot will get inside it & progressively slide it forward with every shot until it hits mechanical limits of full extension.. So it's either all the way IN or all the way OUT & no in between.
Works GREAT in a low power application such as this .. but was troublesome for many wanting to always blow forward once the o-rings loosened up. This the WHY the folks at WAR discontinued using the design. Here it works the treat !
While when fully out it is just an empty can, it is very effective and can be further reduced in noise by unscrewing end cap and putting in the factory baffles making a VERY quiet and a more permanent LDC.
-
Scott, It seems we did a few similar things already. I modded a single shot adapter for slugs, Re-purposed scope rings for my uses. In this case, an adapter and machined parts to be able to mount off set mounts for my varmint lights for night shooting. (Making a mount for a much more powerful 2400 lumen thrower light with a 35 mm tube.
Will be removing the trigger and giving it a full radius and polish on the trigger face for smoothness. I hate a sharp cornered trigger blade. Many years of shooting double action Smiths and colts led me in this direction.
I also set up probes with the o rings in them rather than the bbl. I much prefer this.
Added a full 22" length barrel to the Mini as Well. It really changed the Mini as did the full size 500 cc CF Bottle. It is much more well behaved on the bench.
My barrels are eventually going to be fully CF tubed. For stiffness. I am enjoying the barrel liner/Cf combo as it is light, but very stiff. An ultra light Bull barrel if you will.
I was already thinking of a biathlon lever set up, as you show here. Makes for a much more balanced cocking effort.
In my case, I may very well be converting the throw lever to left hand operation. I did this to the RS II, as it can now be set-up for right or left hand cocking in just a few minutes.
Before I can do this, I have to find a way to repair the bottle block. it is fitted with a plug that is not solid. No doubt part of it being a prototype.
I also added an extension to the bottom pic. Rail for both the light and a more forward Bipod. I will try and take pic's tonight.
My biggest mistake was asking Travis to not send it with the stock JSAR is using. I should have kept it. I did add an Ergo thin grip, and further refined it for my small hands. LOL
Mike
-
Scott, here are a few pic's of mod's so far.
-
Single shot tray along with o-ring on probe ... Nice !
-
Travis was going to sent a mag with the barrel. Guess he forgot. LOL
All I really need is a couple of the stars. Only the poly carriers in the mags. Maybe one day. ;)
Mike/Knife
-
Scott, the o ring on the probe sure makes life a LOT easier! ;)
Mike/Knife
-
Scott,
changing the o-ring from barrel & probe is great! It makes barrel machining much easier and more cost-effective & less labor-intensive.
And easier to clean without damaging the "O" ring. I will often remove the "O" ring when I clean a barrel with an internal ring. I got good at taking them out and getting them back in.
Any chance JSAR will produce a probe with the rings on it that can be used in their existing barrels?
-
I kinda doubt it. I turned a grove in mine to use an o ring. But yo never know. ;)
-
Scott,
changing the o-ring from barrel & probe is great! It makes barrel machining much easier and more cost-effective & less labor-intensive.
And easier to clean without damaging the "O" ring. I will often remove the "O" ring when I clean a barrel with an internal ring. I got good at taking them out and getting them back in.
Any chance JSAR will produce a probe with the rings on it that can be used in their existing barrels?
I did see a few probes in the shop set up as such and they ALL had damaged o-rings on them. Which is VERY TELLING that when using magazines the side load of inner carrier and any sharp edges will cut the o-ring.
This further complicated by HOW WELL CENTERED the probe enters the barrel. If probe is not dead nuts centered it will drag on one side and o-ring will wear/ be damaged because of it.
Single shot applications are best suited IMO
-
That's pretty sweet! You guys should offer it as a package option...Raptor Motörhead Edition.
-
Oddly, the first bbl. I used, the TJ from JSAR blew the o rings over and over. Never more than a few shots before they would fail.
This is why I put the o ring on the probe. It cured the issue.
-
Oddly, the first bbl. I used, the TJ from JSAR blew the o rings over and over. Never more than a few shots before they would fail.
This is why I put the o ring on the probe. It cured the issue.
Never had that happen once even at 200 plus FPE check probe to make sure its not undersized.
-
This STUCK at home thing has me fiddling more on the RAPTOR FTS that I likely should be .. it was shooting just fine !
But alas always the tinkerholic never leaving well enough alone. My excuse was R&D, yes lets see how that excuse fly's ???
Lighter hammer, MUCH lighter ... SSG devise as I've been using for a couple years now ,,, JUST GOTTA DO IT .. so i did it. Lol
Manufactured an 100% Delrin ( Not acetal ) hammer that retained basic shape and buffer adjustablity. Finished up with buffer and cocking screws in place @ 25 grams. This is less than half the weight of OEM hammer.
Tossed it in with the same HST and buffer screw positions .... MORE power than it had before jumping from @ 800 fps to 870's Well ok then, faster strike from the lighter hammer equates to lift happening faster is my WAG :-\
Dial in even slacker HST ( already in free flight ) the power "Kinda" falls away some. darn Reg pressure gotta go lower !! or we need to loose some spring energy and that OEM 12# spring for this tune with a lighter hammer has got to go. So .. lets make an SSG device and get a better handle on spring energy delivery. Using the OEM HST parts simply placed a long 3mm screw threw the hole, make a containment hat for the end of screws threads to hold the other end of spring and put in a much lighter 6# spring from an M-rod. Give it @ 1/4" of preload and install it, setting the free flight gap to @ 1/16" or so.
Load a pellet and SNAP being 720's or so with the reg sittin @ 1200 psi. Curious where in the bell curve i was cranked up the pressure on reg and low and behold speed came up too. So my hammer strike energy is still excessive being I was getting more speed with more pressure. Once at @ 1400 psi we're back at 800 fps. At @ 1500 we peak @ 840's & start loosing speed ( so there's the peak ) dialed back to 1400 fiddle with the buffer adjustment to find just where reducing poppet lift starts taking away speed an move it back just enough to be in the sweet spot. 797/795/801/789/793/800 is the @ random pattern we see over the chrony. ( We're still hanging onto an @ 12 fps spread )
In making the hammer payed attention to sizing it for a better fit within the tube. OEM hammer was @ 1.040" where tube I.D. was 1.056" giving a .016" clearance which for a match rifle where we want the lowest cyclic vibration is excessive IMO. New hammer sits in the tube with @ .006" clearance. Length of the hammer had to be reduced by @ .040" to get rocker catch sear to reset correctly with the snugger fit. No harm no foul.
End result .. Gun cocks far easier ( 12# spring to a 6# ) Hammer simply slides better too. Shot cycle an even crisper SNAP and muzzle report different too.
Thats about it ... until next time ;D
Scott S
-
Scott...
You need an ERGO...ar15 grip for your netbooks....should fit those ape hands well and not expensive...look into it
-
We now have a SWING GATE style Single Shot Loader made ... Fat fingers and roll in trays were not working very well.
see: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=171341.msg155926582#msg155926582 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=171341.msg155926582#msg155926582)
Also added some o-rings on the biathlon style cocking handle ... feels better and looks snazzy !
Quick couple pics ...
-
Man, I love that cocking handle Scott! Maybe I should look into making one. ;)
Now educate me. If the single shot tray is a roll in, how is it better than a properly set up mag? I have no idea.
Mike
-
Oddly, the first bbl. I used, the TJ from JSAR blew the o rings over and over. Never more than a few shots before they would fail.
This is why I put the o ring on the probe. It cured the issue.
Never had that happen once even at 200 plus FPE check probe to make sure its not undersized.
Will do. ;)
-
Tinkers, please splane something to me /us. We use the term "buffer" and "hammer" almost in the same sentence.
Is the hammer a separate item in the Raptor or is it part of the buffer? I know about the adjusting screw about 3 1/2 to 4 inches in the tube and basically how it should be adjusted. That seems to be what is known as the buffer, but is that entire unit considered to be the "hammer" also, or does the buffer strike a stand alone hammer behind it?
From Scotts post, I suspect they be in the same package.
-
Shameful bump
Tinkers, please splane something to me /us. We use the term "buffer" and "hammer" almost in the same sentence.
Is the hammer a separate item in the Raptor or is it part of the buffer? I know about the adjusting screw about 3 1/2 to 4 inches in the tube and basically how it should be adjusted. That seems to be what is known as the buffer, but is that entire unit considered to be the "hammer" also, or does the buffer strike a stand alone hammer behind it?
From Scotts post, I suspect they be in the same package.
-
Man, I love that cocking handle Scott! Maybe I should look into making one. ;)
Now educate me. If the single shot tray is a roll in, how is it better than a properly set up mag? I have no idea.
Mike
Tinkers, please splane something to me /us. We use the term "buffer" and "hammer" almost in the same sentence.
Is the hammer a separate item in the Raptor or is it part of the buffer? I know about the adjusting screw about 3 1/2 to 4 inches in the tube and basically how it should be adjusted. That seems to be what is known as the buffer, but is that entire unit considered to be the "hammer" also, or does the buffer strike a stand alone hammer behind it?
From Scotts post, I suspect they be in the same package.
Mike,
In the case of this .20 cal build .. there IS NOT a magazine for the the caliber and therefor must shoot it single loaded. So as too a proper operating Mag / verses a Flip loader there are some advantages with THIN SKIRT pellets because a Mag & the spring that rotates the cassette always places a slight squeeze on pellet as it indexes ( actually a slight SNAP impact ) where a gate loader has the pellet simply sitting in a smooth hole and probe seats it straight in without any side load / impact.
Springrrrr,
The "Buffer" and "Hammer" are 2 pieces that work together. the actual buffer is just a 90 duro o-ring sitting between the back of valve body and face of the hammer. If or when the valve stem lifts so far the two collide and the lift stops at this point. The "hammer" (AKA: Buffer Hammer ) has an adjustable striker screw that contacts poppet stem and is RECESSED within the hammer face. The distance the strike screw and relation to the o-ring buffer controls the actual poppet lift. * So BOTH these parts would be included when one speaks of a BUFFER HAMMER.
Scott
-
That single shot tray is pretty slick!
-
Yesterday was doing further fiddling and while rifles holding a fairly tight ES in sequential shooting, if rifles sits for 10+ minuets or more the reg will creep up @ 50/75 psi and the next first shot was going 15-20 fps faster than wanted.
While I tried to get it tuned on the bell curve knee, these balanced valves are just so willing to make power that even a slight change in pressure has it making more / or less power accordingly.
SO ... took the Ninja adjustable regulator apart and pulled the inner spool removing bevels, o-rings. Chucked it up in the lathe and trued it. That done using a small .155" end mill removed the OEM nylon "Seat Ball" leaving a slightly larger hole with a small ledge the NEW SEAT will shoulder on. Out came the PEEK making a small cylinder that was then pressed into the end of spool, faced off very smoothly ending up at the same @ overall length of the ball seat there previous. With a Cratex point polished the raised volcano rim of portion the peek would seal against inside the lower reg body.
Cleaned and lubed with a reassembly and a few shimming spec changes we have the regs low side at @ 1150 psi and high side +/- @ 2200 psi ... perfect.
Now the REALLY really really good news !! With reg set to 1500 psi which gets my wanted 800fps IT STAYS AT 1500 psi dead nuts !! you see pressure gauge drop during the shot @ 200 psi and it instantly within a few seconds is back at 1500 psi. Gun sat all night with 4000 psi in the bottle and came out this A.M. and it was still there ! ... took a cold shot over the chrony @ 801 fps. Now were talkin !!!
** This is NOT saying the adjustable regulators have a problem, Not at all. What I'm saying is for the JSAR RAPTORs to work as a high precision match power gun at these reduced power levels while also utilizing the Balanced valve the pressure the valve processes needs to be very very stable. Looks like we're daily inching along in making this gun more and more refined which in good for the short term and Great for the long term with much hopefully carried over to production guns in the foreseeable future.
Scott S
-
Now that's some R an D right there!
-
I also found this to be true Scott. If my rifle sat for long enough my first shot was always faster.
Since bumping my reg back up to 2000psi and trying to make power, it has become less of an issue.
It was definitely more problematic when I had the reg turned down to 1400psi and trying to shoot the .25 kings at 900fps.
When you say tuned on the bell curve knee, is that mean adjusting your hammer spring and buffer to get close to max FPS for given reg pressure?
-
When you say tuned on the bell curve knee, is that mean adjusting your hammer spring and buffer to get close to max FPS for given reg pressure?
That would be correct ...
-
Just realizing I knew the answer already, I guess I’m always just saying tuning to the knee.
Never quite say the whole thing, knee of the bell curve. And bell curve has me thinking of unregulated guns lol.
I got it.
-
Scott, I had my reg at 3000 psi yesterday testing more slugs. Last night I say that the reg pressure had crept up to 3500. Luckily, that is all the air I had in the tank pressure.
It later started leaking by the adjustment ring. (front end) I can't help but winder if I should try the same as you have done.
I'm gong to take it down and inspect in a few minutes.
Mike
-
Scott, I had my reg at 3000 psi yesterday testing more slugs. Last night I say that the reg pressure had crept up to 3500. Luckily, that is all the air I had in the tank pressure.
It later started leaking by the adjustment ring. (front end) I can't help but winder if I should try the same as you have done.
I'm gong to take it down and inspect in a few minutes.
Mike
I was actually surprised the amount / degree of seat impression the ball already had .. Regs only cycled less than 400 shots so far. I know how tough PEEK is and having made reg seats many times with it have no doubt it will be long lasting.
-
We're a bit further along in R&D now ... Previously with some Reg modification replacing seat with PEEK we were able to shrink the ES the rifle was shooting. Likely for most this would have been acceptable ???
Ya just never know if it can be better until you try, and knowing this Raptor Mini FTS is not for power but competitive consistency we changed up the valve to what is a more common and proven super stable configuration.
See: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=172629.msg155944242#msg155944242 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=172629.msg155944242#msg155944242)
Scott S
-
note to self:
dont shoot in Scott’s class :)
-
Yesterday was doing further fiddling and while rifles holding a fairly tight ES in sequential shooting, if rifles sits for 10+ minuets or more the reg will creep up @ 50/75 psi and the next first shot was going 15-20 fps faster than wanted.
...
I've got a Chinese GURLLEO regulator that is labeled 2800psi output. Actual output pressure appears to be a little over 2700psi when bottle is at 4200psi, and the output pressure is only a little over 2500psi when the bottle drops to 3000psi. Also, the regulator responds slowly (creeps up to pressure). I'll need to do some similar work on this regulator.
Not too much of a problem when operating with a broad "knee". But there does not appear to always be much of a knee with an easy opening balanced valve, where FPE will vary with any pressure changes. Not a bad thing if you can keep pressure constant. Over-driving the hammer seems to broaden the knee, up to a point. Still learning here.
-
Yesterday was doing further fiddling and while rifles holding a fairly tight ES in sequential shooting, if rifles sits for 10+ minuets or more the reg will creep up @ 50/75 psi and the next first shot was going 15-20 fps faster than wanted.
...
I've got a Chinese GURLLEO regulator that is labeled 2800psi output. Actual output pressure appears to be a little over 2700psi when bottle is at 4200psi, and the output pressure is only a little over 2500psi when the bottle drops to 3000psi. Also, the regulator responds slowly (creeps up to pressure). I'll need to do some similar work on this regulator.
Not too much of a problem when operating with a broad "knee". But there does not appear to always be much of a knee with an easy opening balanced valve, where FPE will vary with any pressure changes. Not a bad thing if you can keep pressure constant. Over-driving the hammer seems to broaden the knee, up to a point. Still learning here.
Sadly high flow / quick reset PAINTBALL type regulators have large seat surface areas and seal on a soft spool seat, which is NOT ideal for high precision applications. The only work around i ever came up with was to make sure the bodies sealing surface is flat / true and has no nicks on the sealing surface. then have the spool half of seat being something much harder than the nylon or delrin the factory uses. I replace the spools seat material with PEEK and change up the shape. Lightly burnish them together then add in the bevels/shims as needed to get the correct set point back.
-
UPDATE ..... First match shot last saturday.
I had back a few weeks pulled the balanced valve internals OUT and replaced with a conventional poppet with cobra spring set up * see post 39 link * . Kept the SSG and light hammer finding my >20 fpe power on just a 1000 psi set point. Had taken off the 4.5k CF bottle replacing it with 3k 400 aluminum being it fit the JSAR adjustable regulator.
Shot cycle a very crisp SNAP with es values +/- 3 fps. accurate as heck so figured we had a good tune going and gave it no further thought ... UNTIL after shooting last Saturdays club FT match.
Had taken @ 20+ or so practice shots before the match and then shot the 58 shot match so comfortable is saying 80 shots give or take. Had started off with exactly 3k in the guns 400cc bottle and when match was done HAD ONLY USED 400 psi ... WHOA !! * Now this is with those really nice 1 1/2" precision gauges that I've proven quite accurate.
Into Lloyd's efficiency calculator we entered 400cc bottle, 3K start, 2.6k finish, 13.7 weight @ 800 fps ..... Efficiency a WHOPPING 2.32 avg FPE/cuin per shot
I'm not so sure about this being it is so non typical .. just crazy efficiency and will keep an eye on it and see how it does with some more testing. I've just replaced the bottle with a Ninja 13cc which is @ 213 cc &
this should make seeing the air use more precise and able to get a more definitive look at what happening.
AND ... how the gun shoot ? match was 58 shots, Top 3 scores shot were 52/51/50 & own the 50. Not to bad for a first outing 8)
Scott
-
Scott, that is outstanding! Great tuning work and efficiency...whoa! Congratulations on your 50 score.
-
Into Lloyd's efficiency calculator we entered 400cc bottle, 3K start, 2.6k finish, 13.7 weight @ 800 fps ..... Efficiency a WHOPPING 2.32 avg FPE/cuin per shot
Nice! That is 15% better than the top of the highest range given by Lloyd in the link below:
http://www.calc.sikes.us/1/ (http://www.calc.sikes.us/1/)
P.S. This is with the Cobra Valve right? The valve that oldpro used to get less than .7% ES with his Raptor--> https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=173217.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=173217.0)
-
Into Lloyd's efficiency calculator we entered 400cc bottle, 3K start, 2.6k finish, 13.7 weight @ 800 fps ..... Efficiency a WHOPPING 2.32 avg FPE/cuin per shot
Nice! That is 15% better than the top of the highest range given by Lloyd in the link below:
http://www.calc.sikes.us/1/ (http://www.calc.sikes.us/1/)
P.S. This is with the Cobra Valve right? The valve that oldpro used to get less than .7% ES with his Raptor--> https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=173217.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=173217.0)
I have no clue what Travis's "Cobra" parts look like or any detailed specifics ???
Understand that the original concept came from Travis and he shared it with me letting me go nuts with the tech, and in his words we BOTH shared the R&D with myself doing most of the odd gun application being dubbed the Cobra King ... Lol
Yes my Raptor Mini using the OEM valve body with custom Cobra tech guts of my own specification / manufacture was in use this past weekend.
Scott
My thread on the subject here: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=139401.msg1402661#msg1402661 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=139401.msg1402661#msg1402661)
-
Second match now shot with the JSAR FTS ..... Nevada State FT Championships. I shot the rifle both days to give it a fair and unbiased thrashing.
Saturday was super windy and was too little too late in realizing just how crazy of target holds offs were required. Days end was in the 4th ranking Hunter PCP position. Sunday from @ 10-12 o'clock winds were less and everyone was knocking down more targets, self included.
After noon the winds howled once more and we're only 1/2 way threw the course !! Time to get windage hold creative and seriously dope the wind !! Come days end set the HIGH day score from either day and secured a 3rd place finish ... shooting the .20 cal JSAR Raptor Mini FTS.
I am REALLY liking this gun as now modified and configured .... In this past weekends adventure in NEVADA it allowed stable and controlled shots i would have had difficulty with shooting my regular FT rifles.
BAD AZZ little rifle ... odd looker but a fine shooter !!
Scott S
-
That's awesome, hard to argue with results!
Do you feel the 5mm gave you any sort of edge in those conditions.
-
Scott, congratulations! That is some fine shooting in tough conditions. Your handiwork shows in your Raptor Mini’s performance in the field!
-
That's awesome, hard to argue with results!
Do you feel the 5mm gave you any sort of edge in those conditions.
Been shooting 5mm ( .20 ) for @ 5 years now in FT .... While a .177 shooting JSB Monster 13.43's can do equally well for some ... the .20 cal has by in large been by in large somewhat a silver bullet personally (https://www.bmwlt.com/forums/images/smilies/toast.gif)
-
Well, I for one admire the looks of the gun. I wonder how this tech would fair in a high power slug configuration.
I am still shooting the Mini without the balance chamber and getting very good results with much less leaking now. If it should give issues, I will go with the non delrin seat, just true the alu. base and make a peek poppet with the concave sealing surface as you suggested.
Sure won't hurt to try it out! I did learn that running both a spring inside the chamber and an additional spring on the outside of the poppet shaft hat rides in the chamber stopped the leeks.. It seems I may have been wrong as to what was causing the issue all along. I was suspecting only the o ring under the seat and or the o ring in the balance chamber. With the o ring removed, the thru hole in the poppet stem closed, and the two springs, she seals tight!
At first there was still a very slow leak. I put a one coil longer spring on the outside of the balance chamber side of the poppet and that gave enough force to seal it right away. Woo-Hoo!!! Seems I need to test this same set-up with the balance chamber active as well.
Knife/Mike
-
Bit of an update on a few fronts ….
Recent club Shoot w/18 shooters … 4 way tie on top score 54/58 hanging with a Daystate Redwolf, THOMAS. STEYR LG-110
The Little Raptor Mini FTS is playing with the big boys w/o issue.
AIR USE … Club shoot yesterday filled to 3K on the 13cuin bottle (212cc) after a few practice shots plus the match being @ 70 shots used @ 850 psi
So the average FPE/cuin per shot is running @ 1.8 which is more in line to what expected with early testing. On the larger bottle it was to difficult to really nail down what efficiency was. Now we know more definitively.
* So the good news is with IMO still some "dang" good efficiency on the little Ninja 13 bottle and regulator set point at 1000 psi …. a whopping @ 166 shots per fill at just shy of 20 FPE . Absolutely No Need for large bottle in this application … None !
Scott S
-
Oregon State FT Championship this past weekend .... The JSAR Raptor Mini FTS continues to impress with it's capabilities & consistency. 2nd place finish in Hunter PCP.
Am thinking the configuration it is at currently is about IDEAL for a Hunter class shooter or an open shooter who shoots the dead man position. ( non adj hamster )
-
Oregon State FT Championship this past weekend .... The JSAR Raptor Mini FTS continues to impress with it's capabilities & consistency. 2nd place finish in Hunter PCP.
Am thinking the configuration it is at currently is about IDEAL for a Hunter class shooter or an open shooter who shoots the dead man position. ( non adj hamster )
Great shooting with that little beastie, congrats Scott!
-
That a Boy Scott!!!! Heck Ya!
-
Now that's hanging in there with some might rarefied hardware Scott! Red Wolf, Tomas, Steyr all are fine examples of AirGunning perfection. Really does my mind good to see a Raptor in the running with the best of the best!
I went back to the balance chamber version. I had forgotten that Travis first suggested nothing more than a stronger spring in the chamber. Worked alnd has been working for a few thousand shots so far. Woo-Hoo!
I fitted the first some what available, (Not really) FX STX "Heavy" Slug Liner over the last three days. Holy Batman! Man this things shoots my 31.4 gr slugs like a pinpoint laser! Very impressive!! :o + 8)
Congrats Scott. I love it when a plan comes together!!!! ;) 8)
Mike
-
JSAR ... Well word is JACOB ( Owner of Rogue Energies / JSAR ) has or is in the process of selling the Air Gun business to one of his machinists. The machine shop where these were being manufactured is closing shop and production of parts to be outsourced. JSAR's future is in someones else's hands now so my R&D is likely gone like leafs in the wind !!
While I had support all of the 2020 FT season ... ZERO interest was expressed back to me in sharing outside my posts or coming back into house for spearheading a production FTS Raptor.
We're officially done, tho keeping the rifle to use as my .177 caliber SLUGGER running @ 38 fpe .... Wowzer bad azz little ice pick !!!
-
Give Matt a little bit buddy he needs time to get things ironed out and production up to speed at the new location then I bet he circles back to you. You have been a asset to them so I can’t see why he wouldn’t. I’ll put my two cents in if that’s worth anything. As for the Raptor.177 it’s amazing and probably my favorite gun right now with the Nielsen Ammo. I can’t wait for squirrel season!!! Matt’s a good guy and will make a go of it, I’ve been in constant contact with him threw the buy out and I think he has a good game plan and most importantly finances to make it happen.
-
Give Matt a little bit buddy he needs time to get things ironed out and production up to speed at the new location then I bet he circles back to you. You have been a asset to them so I can’t see why he wouldn’t. I’ll put my two cents in if that’s worth anything. As for the Raptor.177 it’s amazing and probably my favorite gun right now with the Nielsen Ammo. I can’t wait for squirrel season!!! Matt’s a good guy and will make a go of it, I’ve been in constant contact with him threw the buy out and I think he has a good game plan and most importantly finances to make it happen.
Travis, thanks for the update, it's encouraging to know that there will be a source of parts and future updates.
So far I'm very pleased with my .257 raptor and I have not experience any down time. It will be great if Matt gets the needed
technical support.
-
Give Matt a little bit buddy he needs time to get things ironed out and production up to speed at the new location then I bet he circles back to you. You have been a asset to them so I can’t see why he wouldn’t. I’ll put my two cents in if that’s worth anything. As for the Raptor.177 it’s amazing and probably my favorite gun right now with the Nielsen Ammo. I can’t wait for squirrel season!!! Matt’s a good guy and will make a go of it, I’ve been in constant contact with him threw the buy out and I think he has a good game plan and most importantly finances to make it happen.
Travis, thanks for the update, it's encouraging to know that there will be a source of parts and future updates.
So far I'm very pleased with my .257 raptor and I have not experience any down time. It will be great if Matt gets the needed
technical support.
Matt is pretty sharp and a true Mechanical engineer! This has been in the works for a few months and i didnt know it was public knowledge yet so I didnt post anything.
-
Give Matt a little bit buddy he needs time to get things ironed out and production up to speed at the new location then I bet he circles back to you. You have been a asset to them so I can’t see why he wouldn’t. I’ll put my two cents in if that’s worth anything. As for the Raptor.177 it’s amazing and probably my favorite gun right now with the Nielsen Ammo. I can’t wait for squirrel season!!! Matt’s a good guy and will make a go of it, I’ve been in constant contact with him threw the buy out and I think he has a good game plan and most importantly finances to make it happen.
Travis, thanks for the update, it's encouraging to know that there will be a source of parts and future updates.
So far I'm very pleased with my .257 raptor and I have not experience any down time. It will be great if Matt gets the needed
technical support.
Matt is pretty sharp and a true Mechanical engineer! This has been in the works for a few months and i didnt know it was public knowledge yet so I didnt post anything.
It become public knowledge when someone who knows speaks up !! Transparency has never been a strong suit of the operation so it remaining unsaid would likely have gone on near indefinitely.
Absolutely hope Mathew can hold it together. The road to being a stable & profitable manufacturer of modern air weapons has never been longer or tougher for JSAR ... I indeed wish him all the best !!!
-
Give Matt a little bit buddy he needs time to get things ironed out and production up to speed at the new location then I bet he circles back to you. You have been a asset to them so I can’t see why he wouldn’t. I’ll put my two cents in if that’s worth anything. As for the Raptor.177 it’s amazing and probably my favorite gun right now with the Nielsen Ammo. I can’t wait for squirrel season!!! Matt’s a good guy and will make a go of it, I’ve been in constant contact with him threw the buy out and I think he has a good game plan and most importantly finances to make it happen.
Travis, thanks for the update, it's encouraging to know that there will be a source of parts and future updates.
So far I'm very pleased with my .257 raptor and I have not experience any down time. It will be great if Matt gets the needed
technical support.
Matt is pretty sharp and a true Mechanical engineer! This has been in the works for a few months and i didnt know it was public knowledge yet so I didnt post anything.
It become public knowledge when someone who knows speaks up !! Transparency has never been a strong suit of the operation so it remaining unsaid would likely have gone on near indefinitely.
Absolutely hope Mathew can hold it together. The road to being a stable & profitable manufacturer of modern air weapons has never been longer or tougher for JSAR ... I indeed wish him all the best !!!
I believe Matt was going to make a public statement once the facility was moved and up and running he wont get that opportunity now but I understand where your coming from my friend. I hope he does well and continues to prosper in his new endeavor.
-
Well now, this is the best news I've heard in a very long time! Very good! 8)
Knife
-
Chasing down what I thought was mechanical noise ..... Partially ???
See:https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=185162.msg156119239#msg156119239 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=185162.msg156119239#msg156119239)