GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: bear air on February 29, 2020, 09:46:03 PM
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I'm not sure this belongs in the dark side but all my guns are pcp and didn't really see any place else to post. If its better suited somewhere else please feel free to move it moderators. So I want to strip the ugly factory stock on my marauder and make it look better. I was first wanting to use boiled linseed oil but after watching some you tube videos and discovering that it usually takes 7 to 10 days for it to dry between coats that was removed from the possible choices. I was also thinking about just using tru-oil on it but now I'm pondering staining it first but really have no experience or clue what to use. I also watched a you tube video where the guy actually used two different color stains before using the tru-oil. If anyone out there has done it to a stock please post some pics and give me an idea what you used and how you went about doing it. TIA.
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I have stripped and re-done several stocks, even a Marauder once,
In my opinion the wood is of poor quality and don't take stains well, better off just reseal it,...Tung oil is good easy to apply and drys fast, Spray on Minwax Polyurathane also easy to do.
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(https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/guns/001-6.jpg) (https://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/guns/001-6.jpg.html)
(https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/guns/002-9.jpg) (https://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/guns/002-9.jpg.html)
(https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/guns/004-6.jpg) (https://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/guns/004-6.jpg.html)
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Whatever wood is on my p15 stock wouldn't accept a stain no matter what I tried. Ended up black with several coats of wipe on satin clear.
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Hey Chris,
Member Spiralgroove has a thread on the one step finishes. I think he used Minwax PolyShades. There is also the similar Varathane One-Step product.
Beech and some mystery wood stocks don't accept stain evenly and look blotchy from what I have read.
Taso
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I found some of his threads:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=157388.0;nowap (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=157388.0;nowap)
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=93583.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=93583.0)
Thanks,
Taso
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Here is a whole Gate.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=139.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=139.0)
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The Scope Guru, Cyclops Videos by Joe Rhea had several very good youtube vid's on the subject.
You can always do what Kral is doing. People talk about the beautiful stocks they are putting out.
Sadly I know what they are doing, and totally turns me off.
they are buffing or burnishing in nothing more than shoe polish in some areas, and then lightly sanding and finishing. In the Custom Knife world it is considered the lowest of the low methods. Pure trash. but hey, the public is totally beguiled by such poor workmanship. ::)
Knife
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I have been very pleased with my refinishing of some of the older Crosman stocks.... 140, 1400, 114, etc....
(https://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Crosman%20140/Crosman1401stVariantRight.jpg) (https://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Crosman%20140/Crosman1401stVariantRight.jpg.html)
(https://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Crosman%20140/Crosman114RightSide.jpg) (https://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Crosman%20140/Crosman114RightSide.jpg.html)
(https://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Crosman%20140/Crosman140withScopeRight.jpg) (https://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Crosman%20140/Crosman140withScopeRight.jpg.html)
(https://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Crosman%20140/MyCrosman140Right.jpg) (https://s378.photobucket.com/user/rsterne/media/Crosman%20140/MyCrosman140Right.jpg.html)
All the above were stripped and then sanded to bare wood, stained with a gel stain (mix of walnut and colonial), and then MANY coats of walnut oil, wetsanded progressively finer, ending up with 600, can then a final coat of walnut minwax….
Bob
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Mr. Bob, that bottom pic is gorgeous! 8)
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I'll second that! ^ They all look fantastic.
I actually have 3 stocks I'm working on. I've gotten pretty darn good with the stripping, feathering, stain removal, and stain application (and manipulation). But the finish, I have trouble with. I'll get it sorted. Just struggling to get my environment particle/dust free.
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Once you've prepped your stock, consider a shellac finish. It is easy to apply, dries quickly and can be reapplied a few times in a single day. Also, shellac can be pigmented using commonly available alcohol (spirit) stains.
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Thanks everyone for your replies. Manny is that the tung oil on that marauder? That's the look I'm going for, something to make the grain "pop". Thanks for pointing out the wood section Ken, I have never really searched that section of the forum before. Bob those stocks look awesome! Is that the same cheaper beechwood used on marauder stocks as well? I'm such a perfectionist that I'm glad to be asking ahead of time to get some good ideas of what to use. Knife it's always nice to hear of ways not to do something too! I hate how true craftsmanship is truly becoming a thing of the past in todays society quickly being over looked for quicker/easier results. Thanks for all the feedback guys keep it coming. Love those pics as well.
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I have done a few as well.
I use Old fashioned paint stripper, not the new Aerosol or Citrus stuff. I usually strip 3 times to remove all to original finish. Rinse it well with turpentine and medium/fine steel wool. A stiff toothbrush in the checkering if it has any.
Beech and other cheaper woods can come out "blotchy" when stained.
Minwax sells a "Pre-Stain Wood Conditioner" that prepares bare wood for staining.
https://www.minwax.com/wood-products/preparation/minwax-prestain-wood-conditioner (https://www.minwax.com/wood-products/preparation/minwax-prestain-wood-conditioner)
You can get it anywhere that sell Minwax stains.
After staining I prefer Tru-oil.
Follow the directions, use a small cloth like a piece of an old T-shirt whetted with the tru-oil and rub it in small (6") sections, in thin coats... keep rubbing it until you feel it heating up and then move to the next overlapping section.
It will dry in a few hours then you buff it with 4 ought (0000) steel wool and recoat the same way. I can usually get 3 coats on a Saturday then let it set overnight, 3 more the next day.
4-6 coats will start to build up nice and if you want a dull (satin) finish gently rub it with the 0000 steel wool and you are done. If you want a deep gloss give it 8-10 coats and let it cure.
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Whatever wood is on my p15 stock wouldn't accept a stain no matter what I tried. Ended up black with several coats of wipe on satin clear.
I think you were the guy who said that you think they use diarrhea to stain those chinaguns. I was able to get mine to look decent. Used a stain that I had good luck with staining other &^^& wood with.
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What stain did you use? That stock looks real nice.
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Whatever wood is on my p15 stock wouldn't accept a stain no matter what I tried. Ended up black with several coats of wipe on satin clear.
I think you were the guy who said that you think they use diarrhea to stain those chinaguns. I was able to get mine to look decent. Used a stain that I had good luck with staining other &^^& wood with.
Your P15 turned out very nice, very nice indeed I was going for a grey stain, using a min-wax product. After stripping I tried sanding with various grains, I tried the min-wax primer, it just didn't happen for me. So rather than try different stains I tried something. I had a partial can of rustoleum hammered paint, figured worst case I would strip it off if I didn't like it. After a light sanding then 4 coats of wipe on poly I found what I was looking for. I wanted a tough finish, but didn't want a slick finished look, wanted a bit of texture. In the end I was satisfied enough with the results to not re-do it.
(https://i.imgur.com/nXWplku.jpg)
One of my favorite guns. Approximately 50 shots of 45fpe, right at 7lbs as pictured.
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Minwax Special Walnut 224. When it comes to the final shine I always use Tru-Oil from Birchwood Casey. I like most guys was looking for shortcuts when it comes to that. I wanted to just spray something on a gun from a rattle can. My dad who finished a ton of stocks said don’t. Tru-Oil is designed to endure what a gun goes through. Not just weather but chemicals. You can make it super shiny or go matte just by using fine steel wool on it.
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Minwax Special Walnut 224. When it comes to the final shine I always use Tru-Oil from Birchwood Casey. I like most guys was looking for shortcuts when it comes to that. I wanted to just spray something on a gun from a rattle can. My dad who finished a ton of stocks said don’t. Tru-Oil is designed to endure what a gun goes through. Not just weather but chemicals. You can make it super shiny or go matte just by using fine steel wool on it.
Funny that is the stain you used. That used to be my family's go to stain, we did a lot of woodworking in my high school years. My first few gun stocks were done with Min Wax Special Walnut. A crosman branded Cometa Springer, a Savage 840 bolt action 30-30, and an old Mossberg 146b .22lr. I still have the Mossberg. On the old Springer I just rubbed it with linseed oil after staining. It took a while to dry, but in the end was a very "grippy" finish. The rest were brushed with Min Wax satin poly
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This grip is off a CP-1 or Bandit. I used Minwax Black Walnut trying to get he grain to pop. Wound up looking like I dropped it in a campfire.
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This grip is off a CP-1 or Bandit. I used Minwax Black Walnut trying to get he grain to pop. Wound up looking like I dropped it in a campfire.
I sort of like that look. But that is somewhat the way the Minwax grey turned out on my P15 and it didn't necessarily "do it" for me at the time.
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I have refinished a number of gunstocks. I have done faux finishes on a couple with an airbrush to simulate tiger maple or fiddlehead. My finish is a mixture of 1 part beeswax, 1 part turpentine, and 2 parts boiled Linseed oil. Add a little Japan Dryer if you want it to dry faster but this inhibits absorption. Three coats over two to three weeks is normally enough. Rub it out between coats with fine steel wool. Gun wood varies in quality, even more so on cheap airguns, so results will vary wildly. I find that Urethane covers many ills so if your wood ain't worth the whole treatment just airbrush up some wood grain and slap on a coat of varnish!
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That's funny Frank, I had a can of that in my hand last night at Walmart. I was just looking to see whats available. How many coats of stain did you apply? They also had some rustoleum blackcherry I thought would look pretty good. I would rather save myself the frustration and disappointment though and use a product that has been used on one of these cheap wood stocks with success though. I already have a bottle of tru-oil that I got yesterday at Scheels. Now I need to get the stuff to strip it, some sand paper and steel wool and the stain and the other misc items to do the job. I plan to tackle this project sometime next week. Sounds like they also have some pre-stain treatment too. Maybe I should check into getting some of that as well.
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I've used a torch to "burn" the desired effect on hammer handles then sanded and put coats of poly on them. They turned out well. I wonder if anyone has tried that on a rifle stock?
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I usually, on junk wood, test a stain on the stock under the butt plate. I just do one coat of stain. No pretreatment. All woods take stain differently. It’s a roll of the dice. As long as an ugly gun is accurate, I can live with that.
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I've used a torch to "burn" the desired effect on hammer handles then sanded and put coats of poly on them. They turned out well. I wonder if anyone has tried that on a rifle stock?
Torching only works good on soft wood like pine. I tried it on a Marlin stock and it didn’t even phase it. It turned color right at the point of catching the gun on fire.
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Did figure out how to get some of the cheap-China woods to take a stain. Not a finish, just a color pretty deep into the bare wood; you'd have to put a top finish onto that.
When all else failed,went with a leather dye. The water based can work,just take longer (Climate...but figure on a day or two) to penetrate and dry....alchohol based works faster.
No magic with the CP1....turned bare plain blond wood into plain brown wood (made in a multitude of colors)...but it was still bare wood, so normal clear stock finishes worked.
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I've used a torch to "burn" the desired effect on hammer handles then sanded and put coats of poly on them. They turned out well. I wonder if anyone has tried that on a rifle stock?
Torching only works good on soft wood like pine. I tried it on a Marlin stock and it didn’t even phase it. It turned color right at the point of catching the gun on fire.
I use it on hickory handles. And yes it will be flaming and smoking, but only flaming while the torch is on the wood.
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I've done a few stocks and have been using Minwax Antique oil finish. It takes a while but turns out great. Especially on walnut. For beech stocks I think a dye works better as stains dont take evenly.
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For those WOOD stocks that simply don't have pretty wood grain, simply changing the shade be it lighter or darker does not really cut it ..... Paint it !!
Here a Gen II marauder just recently done in Rustoleum Textured paint with a clear lacquer over coat.
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I can't say I've seen a Mrod G2 stock that was refinished such that it looked good and highlighted the grain well. There seemed to be more people that did it with their Gen 1 stocks, but still not that purty, IMO. None looked as good as the stocks shown by Bob and others, here. I hope yours come out great, and will inspire me to do my one Mrod woody. :)
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Thanks John, I'm still researching which products to use to strip and dye the wood. I'm leaning towards using dye instead of stain. I definitely want a good clean stock to start the project out with. I will be using tru-oil to finish it. Scott thanks for the suggestion. I'm a stubborn sun of a gun and have to give it a shot. If I find it's just not going to work I might have to consider using synthetic stocks and go the paint route. I'd like to give a big thanks to everyone who chimed in on the thread so far.
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I don’t strip any of my stocks down with chemicals. Just old fashioned sanding. Here is a Benjamin Discovery stock I did years ago. Not sure if they source all the same wood for all their stocks but it came out nice with just stain and Tru-oil.
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Still need a few posts until I can post pictures... but an interesting finish, if you want gloss, is using super glue. I made a guitar a few months ago, and used thin CA.Apply, sand, apply, sand until you build up the finish. Search for videos on Youtube for the process. It is tricky until you get the hang of it. But the results are hard to beat. It is rock hard, can be polished to a super high gloss, and unlike almost any other finish, it's fully cured in a day. It's also super easy to repair.
Another new finish option is UV cured epoxy. Zero VOC, extremely long working time, extremely short cure time. Main manufacturer is Solarez... it's becoming a new favorite among guitar builders.
I've also done an oil finish on my Daystate... not a finish for the impatient.
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I haven't used this on a gun stock, but a good wood finish I've used in the past, on hand-built furniture made from antique wood, was a Danish oil finish. It gets wiped on, let sit, then wipe off the excess. I've used a couple of coats, and up to 4 coats, and even with heavy use, the finish holds up very well.
Danish Oil Application Instructions
Apply a very thin coat across entire piece with a lint-free cloth at room temperature. ...
Allow Danish Oil to penetrate the wood for a minimum of 5 minutes.
Rub in briskly with a lint-free cloth until the surface is completely dry. ...
Allow the piece to cure for a minimum of 8 hours.
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It was Watco oil I used on the stocks I did.... However, I wet sanded each coat after allowing it to penetrate, using gradually finer paper....
Bob
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It's great stuff, Bob!
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Also, for general finishes... I recommend anything from Target Coatings. Their water based shellac is amazing. Doing finishes in a home shop is a real challenge. You want good results, and you don't want to poison yourself, your family or the environment in the process. I also now refuse to use a finish that can't be easily repaired. Polyurethane is the worst... stays tacky for too long (dust in finish is almost inevitable) is a pain to clean up, and if you sand/scratch through a layer you get to start over. I like finishes that can "burn-in" to the previous layers, which allow repair. Shellac and Lacquer are great options for this reason. Target's water-based ones mean cleanup is easy too.
poop, I can't post external links either. You'll have to take my word for it until I make a few more posts.
I grew up using Danish oil... It had been my favorite (very forgiving) but it's not something I'd use again after discovering these other options.
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Here is an old Crosman stock and a newer one that I refinished. The old one is a 160 stock I adapted to a Disco carbine. I read they were Elm or Ash cut to show the grain figure. The 392 was thinned and reshaped. I have no idea what wood they use, but it does not stain well with water based stains. Both were sanded starting with 180 down to 320 grit, wet to raise the grain between changing grits, then washed with acetone. I used Laurel Mountain stains from muzzle loader supply web sites. The 160 stock is their American Walnut and the 392 is their Lancaster Maple. These are alcohol based stains and worked well. True Oil rubbed down with 0000 steel wool between coats to finish up. They both need a few more coats.(http://)
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When you have cruddy wood you have to be creative. Have one that turned out like Frank's. The wood on the nova liberty is very plain when stripped down. I like to wet the wood,let it dry and the grain will raise. Helps the stain take better. Then apply the stain, lightly sand rinse and repeat until you get the definition your looking for. This is with straight minwax ebony and a couple coats of poly in an afternoon. Tru oil would be a much better finish.
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I like finishes that can "burn-in" to the previous layers, which allow repair. Shellac and Lacquer are great options for this reason.
Lacquer (the real stuff; lots of products say lacquer on the label) is the only commonly available wood finish where each coat becomes part of the previous one. Other finishes just pile up one on top of the other.
And one thing nice about lacquer; there's no need to sand between coats.
One not so nice thing is that it's not very durable nor water resistant.
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Another option that's admittedly not cost effective (this is subjective of course) would be to get your stock hydro-dipped. You can of course go down the camo path, or if you're dead-set on a wood grain, there's many wood patterns to choose from! You can get gloss or semi-gloss, even matte (though I'm not sure a matte clear would look good w/wood grain?). Just a thought.
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Lacquer (the real stuff; lots of products say lacquer on the label) is the only commonly available wood finish where each coat becomes part of the previous one. Other finishes just pile up one on top of the other.
Shellac is another finish that burns in. The Target Coatings water-based versions of both do burn in. (The shellac being way easier to apply than traditional shellac) I used their shellac on a kitchen table that sees daily use/abuse and it has stood the test of time. (They have more durable coatings, but the shellac is really easy to work with.) I’d have no problem using it on a gunstock. What you need to do is give it a long time to cure before it’s ready for hard use (like a month or two). It takes a while for it to really dry out. I put my table into service too early and nearly had a heart attack when a wet glass left a raised ring on the finish. Thankfully the ring disappeared after it dried out. It’s been about 6-7years since I made it. I’ve sanded it out with 2000, 3000, 4000 grit abralon followed by automotive polish to remove scratches and restore a glass like surface.
Another wood finish I can recommend is Osmo Polyx (it also burns in) No voc, non-toxic, safe for kid’s toys, etc. It’s described as a hardwax oil finish. Very easy to apply and very durable. I used it on my hardwood floors. The only drawback is that it doesn’t dry as hard as a lacquer. But it doesn’t chip or peel.