GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Vintage Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: sixshootertexan on January 28, 2020, 06:42:37 PM
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I'm trying to find a price for a Beeman Original 35. I gave provide serial number if needed.
Thanks.
https://www.76highboy.com/index.php?attachments/b8577354-67ce-48b7-a874-8f2deeca1f4a-jpeg.2035/ (https://www.76highboy.com/index.php?attachments/b8577354-67ce-48b7-a874-8f2deeca1f4a-jpeg.2035/)
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Whatever you can get for it.
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Not mine. Trying to help a widow lady.
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I'm not sure exactly what the widow lady has as the description is confusing to me. I know after the Second World War Diana airguns were marketed under the brand "Original". You can check that out on the Chambers site. Diana did have a Model 35 which was a forerunner to the 34 though smaller and had less power. It had a leather piston seal and lacked the more modern modular trigger. If it is of Diana manufacture it should have a four digit date code at the rear of the receiver on the left side just above the stock. The Diana 35 had no safety. It was a very good shooter, though. Perhaps you could provide some pictures? I think Lizzie has at least one Diana 35.
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Wow I didn't know Dr. Beeman sold the Diana 35 under his name. I guess it's possible since the more modern 35 was made until the mid-late 80's, and Beeman had started rebadging German guns a few years before that.
Harry
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Yes, a rebranded Diana. Beeman imported a lot of different brands before he locked in on HW. I had one and sold it a couple of years ago for around $140 iirc. Not much demand, most people haven't even heard of it. Not particularly collectable.
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It is probably a phony.
Dr. Robert Beeman’s company never used the apostrophe.
Beeman Precision Airguns Incorporated is the correct name.
It may have come from China after S/R Industries bought the name from Dr. Beeman.
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Here's some info on it from Robert Beeman
https://www.beemans.net/rare%20beeman%20guns.htm (https://www.beemans.net/rare%20beeman%20guns.htm)
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It is probably a phony.
Dr. Robert Beeman’s company never used the apostrophe.
Beeman Precision Airguns Incorporated is the correct name.
It may have come from China after S/R Industries bought the name from Dr. Beeman.
Good catch on that apostrophe! I agree. The gun looks too new to be a post-WW2 rifle. Also the fact that is says "Made In Germany For". Most rifles of that era would say "Made in West Germany".
I am no expert on these, but I also don't trust the Chinese to try to pull off something like that.
However, I just read Dan's link, so now I am wondering if indeed this rifle might be genuine.
Here's another link to a history of Diana. It is Wiki after all, so take it for what it's worth. Note "WW2 and aftermath", and "Not Diana" in this article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIANA_Mayer_%26_Grammelspacher
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Very interesting, a very common rifle (Diana model 35) but rare markings. Beeman did import Dianas for a time, at first under the “Beeman’s Original” name (“Original” was the brand name used in the UK for Dianas at that time), but later gave the guns unique names for a short time - “Beeman model 200” in the case of the 35. Beeman-marked Dianas are relatively rare, as Diana soon blew them off and set up their own US distributorship under the RWS label.
Yes it’s odd to have “Beeman’s” on there, but I’m 99.99% sure that’s right, and the details of the stamping and scope ramp in the linked photo look absolutely correct to me. There is no market for copying an old gun with oddball markings, and no particular reason to assume “THE CHINESE” are behind markings we aren’t familiar with.
The action should have a date stamp, tiny characters in MM YY format, on the left rear receiver which should settle it - will be late 1970’s or possibly early 80’s.
IMHO, most older Dianas tend to be undervalued in the US these days. The 35 was made by the thousands but is not well known or worth big money here. At an airgun show you’d do very well to get $150 for one in absolutely mint condition - I struggled to get $125 for a 35, of similar vintage in 98% condition, with a nice tune at Hickory last fall. There may be a collector who’s pay a small premium for the markings, but I’ve never found one!
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The Wiki article is full of holes, and looks to borrow heavily from Beeman's web site. (I don't know the real story of the Beeman/Diana breakup...but from the good Dr's subsequent writings, I think we can deduce there were some hard feelings, LOL).
The assertion that Diana's parent company, Mayer & Grammelspacher, "lost their trademark" is misleading to say the least. After WW2, Diana's pre-war airguns production machinery was sold to Millard Brothers ("Milbro") in Scotland, along with the right to use the "Diana" trademark in UK-controlled markets. This lasted until Milbro ceased operations around 1980. But in those years M&G went right on selling plenty of Dianas in Europe, and I own several date-stamped guns to prove it.
Beeman's site further implies he personally rescued Diana from their "lost trademark" by importing their guns, and that Diana almost went under after he quit. Complete poppycock...M&G has sold more guns worldwide for 100+ years than the good Dr ever dreamed of.
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If it is real it will be in the book.
The Blue Book of Airgun values.
If not.....
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It's legit.
I have a Diana 10 pistol stamped in the same manner.
"Original" MOD. 10
MADE IN GERMANY FOR
BEEMAN'S PRECISION AIRGUNS
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Remember Beeman’s ‘tap the cap’, a slight specific to Diana? I always suspected it stemmed from a contentious breakup.
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It has “77” stamped on the left rear side of the receiver
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It's legit.
I have a Diana 10 pistol stamped in the same manner.
"Original" MOD. 10
MADE IN GERMANY FOR
BEEMAN'S PRECISION AIRGUNS
Very interesting thanks! This thread makes me realize I've never seen a "Beeman Original" in the flesh.
I absolutely guarantee there are no cheap Chinese copies of the model 10 out there, LOL. It has to be the most fiendishly complex break-barrel springer pistol in the history of the planet!
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It's legit.
I have a Diana 10 pistol stamped in the same manner.
"Original" MOD. 10
MADE IN GERMANY FOR
BEEMAN'S PRECISION AIRGUNS
Very interesting thanks! This thread makes me realize I've never seen a "Beeman Original" in the flesh.
I absolutely guarantee there are no cheap Chinese copies of the model 10 out there, LOL. It has to be the most fiendishly complex break-barrel springer pistol in the history of the planet!
The Original Mod. 10 is featured on the cover of the revised 1975 Beeman's Precision Airguns catalog.
LOL.... you are not even exaggerating about the complexity. Not referring to the Giss system, it's the trigger components. It was the first Giss gun I had ever restored. Took lots of photos and jumped in head first.
Steven
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Back to the "losing their trademark thing," Diana (or more properly M&G) was never exactly shy about using other trademarks. From the 50's through the 90's, I know of these logos being used:
Diana - always the main mark for Germany and continental Europe.
Original - as discussed above, used in the UK whilst Milbro was still operating. The purchase of the pre-war Diana machinery by Milbro is quite an interesting story. Webley also bid on this, and the best history I've seen is in Christopher Thrale's "Webley Air RIfles" book.
Geco, Gecado - used in UK overseas markets (Canada, South Africa, Australia/NZ, etc.). These were two old small gunmakers whose trademarks M&G purchased before the war.
RWS, Condor, Donor - used for various special-edition oddballs in Europe. There may have been others done for specific distributors, importers, or retailers.
Hy-Score, Peerless, Winchester, Beeman Original, Beeman, RWS - used at various times for guns imported to the US. RWS was the most recent and seen in the largest numbers, but Hy-Scores and Winchesters turn up pretty often too.
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Mike your like an encyclopedia of vintage airguns. Great info
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Mike your like an encyclopedia of vintage airguns. Great info
When Mike speaks I tend to listen! Knows his stuff.
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Mike your like an encyclopedia of vintage airguns. Great info
When Mike speaks I tend to listen! Knows his stuff.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
+10 on both quotes. Mike has helped me immensely! :D
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You guys are very kind. I’m not sure that “old guy who has obsessed over springers for 35 years” is the same thing as an “expert,” but hey, I’ll take it. ;D. My overall knowledge of this ever-fascinating hobby is really rather narrow, yet deep in a few selected areas, LOL.
To close the circle refuting the “lost trademark” (not) story, here are five guns with Diana markings, made during the “Milbro years” (late 1940’s to 1980). Top to bottom:
Model 5 pistol, first post-war version with wood grip/frame, made about 1960.
Early post-war model 27, slab-sided stock and alloy trigger, 1955 or so.
Later model 27 with revised stock and plastic trigger, 1962-ish.
Early model “50a” target rifle with “star” front sight and two-function rear, about 1958.
Slightly later model “50b” with the rear sight in aperture mode, about 1960.
(https://i.postimg.cc/D0q3vmZ5/1672-AA95-62-BF-42-FA-BBA5-90-F96-F3-C243-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZvKMjb6y)
You can see more details of the 50a, including the markings, here:
https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/post-war-diana-air-rifles/diana-model-50/#post-2515
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This just showed up here locally;
https://sacramento.craigslist.org/clt/d/granite-bay-winchester-model-435/7071212517.html
I think this seller has several, a couple new and another used. I bet there’s a story.
A diana 35 by any other name..........