GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Benjamin Airguns => Topic started by: Flint on January 17, 2020, 07:13:38 PM
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Hey guys, I've not been on here much for the last couple years. Finally got a chance to shoot some squirrels with my vintage benjamin and sheridan rifles last week, and hopped on pyramyd air to buy some pellets and caught a glimpse of the benjamin 39x guns!!!! plastic??!!! I can't believe it. but before I just assume that its all for the worse - I thought I'd ask about it.
So, how are they? good? bad? they are certainly ugly! I tried to do a search on here but only came up with way old posts not about the new plastic guns. I did happen across something that said that they are now 10 pumpers. does that mean they have more power now? or same? or less even? anyone chrony one? The crosman site still shows them as wood.
Were there any other changes that accompanied the stock change? valve? are they still having problems with the overspray and tilted front sights?
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Try searching for "392s" or "397s" You should come up with quite a few posts
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I think the synthetic 39X is blasphemy.
Get a NOS wooden one while you still can.
They are out there.
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Plastic stocks, seriously? Now that is a let down. I'm not against plastic (synthetic), just not on a classic platform. If they wanted to offer both, that would be fine, but just dump the wood for plastic?? Have I said the word plastic enough? :-[
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I got two words for you - BOTTOM LINE!!!
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I think we are just lucky we can still buy a pumper. I would lay money the numbers they sell almost does not make it worth while keeping them in production.
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Wood 39Xs can still be found on the used market at reasonable prices from many small airgun shops and Ebay. But better hurry before all the wood ones get scarce on the market.
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:o ??? This must be a DUMB "Velocity Outdoors" decision if they are indeed getting rid of the wood stock version. If they can't honor the past with a wood stock version it will FAIL IMO!
Remember them "selling" that they wouldn't mess with the good stuff as they just expand the line of products?
This is very telling and not a good sign of future decision making ability IMO. Wood will never go out of style anyone that's smart would know that.
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Try searching for "392s" or "397s" You should come up with quite a few posts
Thanks. That helped me find a few posts, but not a ton of information still. Seems that there has been some advertisements of 800fps for the 392, and that is with alloy pellets. Why on earth would crosman advertise or advocate the use of alloy pellets in a brass barreled gun? Seems like a terrible idea.
I've also found that perhaps the valve is now different - so that after 10 pumps, the excess air bleeds off. I'm guessing that the pump volume has decreased then - since the velocity with lead pellets is still the same as the old 8 pump version. I wonder what the benefit is to having 10 pumps that yields the same power that 8 pumps used to.
Also found that the pump arm is now longer, presumably giving more leverage. This is all unfortunate. Increasing the length of the pump arm, and increasing the number of pumps - but with no increase in power. Seems like a missed opportunity.
There must be some positive to the whole thing. Is the new setup conducive to tuning?
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My 392S maxxed out at about 13.5 ft lbs. Actually it doesn’t have an ‘s’, since there is only one 392 now and it has the synthetic stock.
The main issue is that the comb on the synthetic butt stock is about an inch higher than on the old wood stock, so it’s hard to get a comfortable sight picture with the open sites. You pretty much have to scope it, or contort yourself, to aim it.
That said, if you like pumpers, it’s hard to resist getting one.
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There are many good used wood stock pumpers still out there, than to have to settle for plastic. If you do like the plastic, then go for it, though.
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I have the 397s and like it. The stock is solid and feels good pumping and shooting. I have no issues using the open sights, nice cheek placement on the stock.
Is there an issue using non-lead pellets? I am ready to order ammo and was going to try some alloys.
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I have the 397s and like it. The stock is solid and feels good pumping and shooting. I have no issues using the open sights, nice cheek placement on the stock.
Is there an issue using non-lead pellets? I am ready to order ammo and was going to try some alloys.
I would not use hard alloys in it unless you want a smooth bore.
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I've also found that perhaps the valve is now different - so that after 10 pumps, the excess air bleeds off. I'm guessing that the pump volume has decreased then - since the velocity with lead pellets is still the same as the old 8 pump version. I wonder what the benefit is to having 10 pumps that yields the same power that 8 pumps used to.
Also found that the pump arm is now longer, presumably giving more leverage. This is all unfortunate. Increasing the length of the pump arm, and increasing the number of pumps - but with no increase in power. Seems like a missed opportunity.
Flint, just exactly what is the vintage of the 392 you have that you are comparing this to?
The "39X" has undergone many changes....
A 39XP was a soldered valve and tang safety similar to the 342 (8 pumps)... then came the 39XPA with the "new trigger group that moved the safety down to the trigger, and soon after to a "cartridge valve" (10 pumps).
Next the "modern 392 with the forearm change.
But we are talking decades ago.
I believe the new synthetic uses the same mechanical's as the last 15-20 year previous model, just black plastic instead of wood.
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The wood stocked 392-397 are still on Crosman sight. I think the new valve uses a Mrod style valve with smaller delrin instead of brass poppet.
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The wood stocked 392-397 are still on Crosman sight. I think the new valve uses a Mrod style valve with smaller delrin instead of brass poppet.
We will have to wait and see if they continue selling them though, they often leave discontinued models on the site for quite a while. You can't buy one on the site right now because they have 0 in stock. Maybe this is just pessimistic sales projections on wood stock versions and bad planning on their part.... Maybe they over produced the plastic version and are pushing it by not allowing the choice? Time will tell.
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I remember reading a post here where someone said that Crosman switched to the synthetic because their supplier for wood was mismatching the finish on the stock and forearm.
So my questions would be...
Is the synthetic version a limited run?
Is the price higher because they had to make the plastic molds for a limited run?
Is the wood going to be back once they resolve the issue with the finishes matching?
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I was told months ago when I called crosman about the new synthetic stocks, “ there would be no more wood stocks produced”.
Of course this may be subject to change because of public outcry, but that’s what I was told by the lady that answered the phone. :o
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They must be super slow to update their website. The website only shows the wood stock - and in the description for stock material it specifically says wood. and they don't list the S suffix on either model - nor do they show a plastic stocked benjamin pumper on the website at all.
I'm still holding out hope that there is some redeeming feature of the new iteration.
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The Crosman website used to show the 2019 catalog in an Ezine format - now just PDF download.
Page 23 has the 39Xs listed - no wood models.
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The only place on their site that I saw the synthetic stock version listed was their “on site” 2019 catalogue.
I think the redeeming features of the synthetic version is weather resistance, just like the all brass construction of the gun itself.
Kind of makes a perfect survival type gun for those so oriented.
It’s been said the longer pump arm makes pumping a bit easier, which is a plus.
I actually like the looks of it and would love to have one, but I already have a wood stocked 397 and 392.
Having said that, I don’t want the wood stock to go away and would love to see them bring back the walnut instead of beech!
I have a walnut stocked 397 and a beech stock in a 392.... much prefer the walnut.
I suppose the next generation of 39x owners will like and get used to synthetic stocks, but I prefer to have a choice as to which I buy.
As much as I love the 39x guns, i’ll Probably wind up with at least one in synthetic just out of curiosity, but don’t want to be forced into it because thete’s No other choice!
If crosman sticks to this, someone will probably start making wood stocks for 39x guns as a business?
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They must be super slow to update their website. The website only shows the wood stock - and in the description for stock material it specifically says wood. and they don't list the S suffix on either model - nor do they show a plastic stocked benjamin pumper on the website at all.
I'm still holding out hope that there is some redeeming feature of the new iteration.
Odd, I went to Crosmans wesite and simply typed "392S" in the search field and it brought it right up. :-\
https://www.crosman.com/benjamin-variable-pump-rifle (https://www.crosman.com/benjamin-variable-pump-rifle)
(https://www.crosman.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/9/392s.jpeg)
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Odd, I went to Crosmans wesite and simply typed "392S" in the search field and it brought it right up. :-\
https://www.crosman.com/benjamin-variable-pump-rifle (https://www.crosman.com/benjamin-variable-pump-rifle)
(https://www.crosman.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/9/392s.jpeg)
that is weird. I can see it in your link. I see where they advertise 800 fps will alloy pellets. I'd like to see where someone has demonstrated that alloy pellets are safe in Brass barrels. I've never shot a lead free pellet myself - does each pellet tin list what the composition of the alloy is that they are made of? Definitely wouldn't want to shoot a mystery metal out of my brass barreled gun.
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These are an extremely ugly abomination that just plain should not exist.
I already know they will result in the stop to the wood stocks just as the 1000x led to the ugly stocks the 2100 now come with.
There are people who want a classic wood stocked rifle without having to look on the secondary market or deal with everything else that comes with buying a used and or vintage gun.
I never much liked the looks of the recent 39x guns , but they were miles ahead of this in looks.
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"Of course this may be subject to change because of public outcry"
Outcry from whom? Forum members? Wont happen. While many AG manufactorers do watch what the forums are doing, the fact remains that forum members make up such a tiiiiiiinnnnnnnnyyyyyy portion of sales they dont care. Unless every mmember of GTA was committing to buying US$5000 worth of <insert product name>, on a regular basis, then your not going to affect any change. REally think the Walmart/Bass Pro customers give a rodent's posterier about wood versus synthetic?
The plastic is here to stay.
"someone will probably start making wood stocks for 39x guns as a business?"
Maybe. but the reality is would you spend 200 or more on a semi custom stock--JUST the stock-- bringin the total cost of a new gun over 300? Lot better guns out there for 300...... OTOH if DaveG started making 392 stocks in his style, Id sell a kidney...... :)
We forum members ahve to remember that we are VERY SMALL percentage of total sales for any vendor. ALL vendors will market to customers thats pay their bills....
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That all might be true, but...
I think where Crosman missed the boat, is basically when modernizing a platform like the 39x, to really do a full upgrade.
Make the receiver with a decent scope rail, use true blueing instead of the sprayed paint. Then, when selling it with a synthetic stock, people will buy it. Now... It is a classic platform, but with a synthetic stock. That does not resonate to me honestly. Now it is more like insulting the legacy Sheridan line !
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"Of course this may be subject to change because of public outcry"
Outcry from whom? Forum members? Wont happen. While many AG manufactorers do watch what the forums are doing, the fact remains that forum members make up such a tiiiiiiinnnnnnnnyyyyyy portion of sales they dont care. Unless every mmember of GTA was committing to buying US$5000 worth of <insert product name>, on a regular basis, then your not going to affect any change. REally think the Walmart/Bass Pro customers give a rodent's posterier about wood versus synthetic?
The plastic is here to stay.
"someone will probably start making wood stocks for 39x guns as a business?"
Maybe. but the reality is would you spend 200 or more on a semi custom stock--JUST the stock-- bringin the total cost of a new gun over 300? Lot better guns out there for 300...... OTOH if DaveG started making 392 stocks in his style, Id sell a kidney...... :)
We forum members ahve to remember that we are VERY SMALL percentage of total sales for any vendor. ALL vendors will market to customers thats pay their bills....
Forum opinions do make a difference if the manufacturer actually cares and truly does pay attention.
I frequent the Buck knives forums over on Blade forums, a few employees frequent as well and that's one company who listens.
Of course they're a family owned business who cares and not a bunch of corporate sellouts.
For me it's not really the synthetic that I hate as much as it is the shape, if they had done something like a classic Allweather montecarlo stock I wouldn't be complaining too much.
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"really do a full upgrade."
Now IMO, this is where the bean counters get invollved. IVe not doubt the wooden stock issues theyve reported are true, and going synthetic solves thatf issues. But a redo of the gun itself, from the ground up is gonna be expensive. designs have to be drawn, tooling changed, the asembly lines and crews revamped and retrained. More to rolling out a new model or even a revamped one than just changing the hardware.
Agreed they missed the boat, but the majority of their customers dont know that
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"A redo of the gun itself"
If you have a closer look at the details of the new 39x platforms, you can find some changes anyway. Like the front end cap (bold vs flat now), also "golden branding" at the side... And on their website there is no more "Built in the USA" mentioned anymore...... So redo: why not ? Is it made in China now ? Maybe owners can confirm ?
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I own a new 397s and have opened up to do a slight valve job.
I also own a two year old 392 wood and have done the same valve mod.
They are exactly the same exterior except for stock.
The front end cap and golden branding are the same on both.
The valve on both have the delrin - not brass exhaust check stem.
Crosman changed the 39x wood at least two years ago, the new 39xS is not been a redo.
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I’d like to see the 392 and 7 dropped completely. I bought 4 397s from cabelas last winter and they all went back because they shot like shotguns even after cleaning the paint out of the barrel. Crosman should release something along the lines of a mk177 tube with a slightly beefed up pump mechanism, steel breach, 24inch barrel, pistol grip and 1399 stock. Or heck even put it in the 390 stock. Sell it with open sights and that’s something I would buy. Crosman should focus on exploiting the LEGO gun system they have made
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FX supersized the Lego guns ;D
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I’d like to see the 392 and 7 dropped completely. I bought 4 397s from cabelas last winter and they all went back because they shot like shotguns even after cleaning the paint out of the barrel. Crosman should release something along the lines of a mk177 tube with a slightly beefed up pump mechanism, steel breach, 24inch barrel, pistol grip and 1399 stock. Or heck even put it in the 390 stock. Sell it with open sights and that’s something I would buy. Crosman should focus on exploiting the LEGO gun system they have made
In my opinion this is what they should do with the Lego guns.
(https://i.postimg.cc/90r1yv6G/IMG-20190925-115838039.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kRPxmhX4)
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All you have to do is look at pyramyd air and see the top selling rifles for 2019. Either they're lying to us, or most people are buying firearm replicas to plink with. Classic rifles are a small section of sales.
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All you have to do is look at pyramyd air and see the top selling rifles for 2019. Either they're lying to us, or most people are buying firearm replicas to plink with. Classic rifles are a small section of sales.
Or it's just what they focus on selling more of.
I constantly get adds for them about the CO2 replica guns, never a single add for pumpers.
Why would they wanna just let the pumpers not sell when they could promote and really well them ?
I would guess that the co2 replicas need more promoting since so many people get into AG's to deal with pest problems.