GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: 066logger on December 26, 2019, 07:12:12 PM
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Hello everyone! I have come to ask you for some advice. I am in need of a pellet gun that is as close to a .22lr as possible. I have been researching pretty hard trying to decide what route to go. But there are so many options. This will be my first “real” pellet rifle. I do have experience with a cheaper .177 springer but now I’m looking for something capable of dispatching larger animals. Possums, coons, armadillos, squirrels basically everything short of whitetail ends up in my yard eating my cats food or chewing up my cars wiring.
For the past year I have been dealing with the problems with either a 12ga, 5.56, or 17hmr. The issue is noise though, my cats now have the 1000 yard stare going on and I’m afraid I might have to get them some ptsd counseling if I keep it up with the big guns 😂 so I’m trying to dial it back a little, but I still need something with power to dispatch things quickly and humanely.
The rifle that has really caught my eye is the rws 350 magnum in .22. But I’m curious, it seems the spring powered version of this rifle has been out for a long time. I haven’t had much luck finding anything that has much better specs though. Gamo seems to have a rifle that is a little more powerful but tbh they just don’t really do it for me.
So in short, I’m looking for a spring powered, user serviceable, high quality, high power .22 caliber. Is there anything out there that will beat the rws 350? Thanks for reading my book 😂.
Just to note, I do understand that magnum springers are more difficult in every area. I will accept the steep learning curve and harsh lessons if it means that I will eventually end up with a weapon that would take the place of a real rifle.
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If you are looking for true magnum performance out of a springer take a look at the Hatsan line. The Mod 95 and 125s have been serving up lead for all kinds of larger pets animals. I have a Mod 85 camo that will push a 15 grain lead pellet over 850 fps. Your only worry is to learn shooting a magnum pellet rifle accurately. Hatsan is having a year end sale now.
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D52, D460. Both have the same T06 trigger as the D350. Both are fixed barrels, the 52 is a side cocker, the 460 an under lever. Both have about the same power as the 350.
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I had a .22 RWS350 and it was a great rifle after a lube job.
Umarexusa.com has the .22 Parrus on sale for $164. I don't own one, but I'm impressed with its little brother, the Terrus.
You might like Hatsan for pure power.
Another option might be an older used Beeman Kodiak or UK Webley Patriot.
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I have the D350 T06 .22 and I would say to you don't try it.
If you are VERY (!!) persistent and focused, the difficulties regarding the shooter skills are possible to manage. BUT, the problems related with scopes, at least for me, are being endless; when shooting paper, sitting and rested, it's hard to know if intermitent lacks of consistency are due to the shooter or to the scope (internals getting weak?); it's virtually impossible to have a trustable brand new scope (always) available to compare. Then, frequent 'rezeroing' becomes an obligatory part of the game and, finally, the task of replacing scopes under warranty.
Also, at least for me, 'dampa' mounts don't solve the problem.
I suspect you may have this very same problem with any magnum springer.
So, to have peace of mind, I think you should go with a PCP. Much more easy to shoot from the beginning and no problems with scopes.
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Sig sauer asp20,Gamo swarm magnum and Hatsan carnivore 130 are all under $500 and shoot over 25 fpe.
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Here you go. The mother of magnum springers . https://www.krale.shop/en/weihrauch-hw80.html (https://www.krale.shop/en/weihrauch-hw80.html)
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Diana 460! A+++.
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I can’t speak for the break barrels but the Hatsan underlever torpedo 150 sniper vortex is a decent gun. Got one for just over $100 ( close out price & cyber Monday 40% sale). It’s Heavy but accurate and powerful. Can also pump up the gas ram with pcp pump & fittings to max of 150 bar to maximize fpe, I haven’t looked into this yet, I assume I’m around 120 bar now which is said to be the factory standard.
Got an email from them that there is now a 30% sale til the end of year. Not sure which models this sale includes/excludes.
Mike
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Diana 460! A+++.
That.
Or go Hatsan 125 / 135, and do take a Vortex (gasram) version please !
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Diana 460++++ ;)
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Another vote for the Diana 460.
I have the 98k, which is a 460 in a different dress. Absolute hammer. Accurate. Easy to shoot accurately.
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So.. guess I need to re-post my 460 in the classifieds. Seems like an opportunity awaiting ;) (or a PM from 066logger) … if your serious about wanting a lightly used excellent condition mag springer at a very reasonable price.
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Smoothest shooting The 460 is, not the total hammer a hatsan is, but your bones will thank you.
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Hello everyone! I have come to ask you for some advice. I am in need of a pellet gun that is as close to a .22lr as possible. I have been researching pretty hard trying to decide what route to go. But there are so many options. This will be my first “real” pellet rifle. I do have experience with a cheaper .177 springer but now I’m looking for something capable of dispatching larger animals. Possums, coons, armadillos, squirrels basically everything short of whitetail ends up in my yard eating my cats food or chewing up my cars wiring.
For the past year I have been dealing with the problems with either a 12ga, 5.56, or 17hmr. The issue is noise though, my cats now have the 1000 yard stare going on and I’m afraid I might have to get them some ptsd counseling if I keep it up with the big guns 😂 so I’m trying to dial it back a little, but I still need something with power to dispatch things quickly and humanely.
The rifle that has really caught my eye is the rws 350 magnum in .22. But I’m curious, it seems the spring powered version of this rifle has been out for a long time. I haven’t had much luck finding anything that has much better specs though. Gamo seems to have a rifle that is a little more powerful but tbh they just don’t really do it for me.
So in short, I’m looking for a spring powered, user serviceable, high quality, high power .22 caliber. Is there anything out there that will beat the rws 350? Thanks for reading my book 😂.
Just to note, I do understand that magnum springers are more difficult in every area. I will accept the steep learning curve and harsh lessons if it means that I will eventually end up with a weapon that would take the place of a real rifle.
A few questions:
-At what distance will most of your shooting be at?
-What is the largest critter that you want to dispatch?
-Are you willing to practice, practice, practice? Springers are not easy to shoot. Magnum springers are like a bucking bronco.
-Will you be shooting from a sitting, rested position? The Diana's weigh a ton, + plus scope.
-How much are you willing to spend on rings and a scope?
You might be better off getting a PCP in .25! ;) Much easier to shoot straight. Lighter, harder hitting.
-Y
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I have a Diana 48 .22 I bought used for a decent price and after a spring lube and spacing it is pushing a 14 gr pellet at over 850 fps and very accurate at 30 yards and is easier to cock then a 460.
I have the Diana Zero recoil scope mount on it just for safety reasons since I have a Vortex Diamond Back scope mounted on it. They may not be the prettiest air rifle out there but they are a hammer and the TO6 trigger can be adjusted for a great trigger pull.
Shooting a magnum springer can be hard with a heavy trigger and the TO6 allows you to get a light crisp trigger pull by only changing the the first stage screw with a longer screw which can be bought at most Ace hardware stores.
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How about this:
https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/spring-piston/weihrauch-hw80-long-range-hunter-air-rifle/ (https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/spring-piston/weihrauch-hw80-long-range-hunter-air-rifle/)
I just got one, sent photos of target at 30 yards to Hector Medina this am of 3 shot group at 30 yards inside 3/4", using Crossman Premier Piranha 14.3 gr pellets.
It has a can on the end which actually works.
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and PCP's can be made quieter, much quieter.... 8)
-Y
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Another vote for going PCP. Just more practical for that application in every regard. Take for instance my Benjamin Disco in 22 with an add on moderator that I got used for $150 with the easy to use Benjamin pump (even this old lady can pump up the low psi Disco as needed).
Consider:
- the Disco gives me more power than any magnum springer.
- with the add on moderator, it is quieter than even our light power springers
- the gun weighs about 5 pounds plus with the cheap Simmon 22 scope I use with it. Compare that to a mag springer.
- I can use any scope on a PCP. Does not have to be airgun rated.
- No learning curve needed to shoot PCP. No recoil. None. Zip. Shoot it just like your rimfire.
- Plenty accurate. Will shoot sub inch at 50 yards all day long with the Crosman HP Domed pellets.
All this coming from a diehard springer shooter. We rarely shoot our PCPs, mostly because we no longer hunt. It's all paper, now. For hunting, though, I'd be darn sure to be carrying around that Disco, not one of our big springers.
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Another vote for going PCP. Just more practical for that application in every regard. Take for instance my Benjamin Disco in 22 with an add on moderator that I got used for $150 with the easy to use Benjamin pump (even this old lady can pump up the low psi Disco as needed).
Consider:
- the Disco gives me more power than any magnum springer.
- with the add on moderator, it is quieter than even our light power springers
- the gun weighs about 5 pounds plus with the cheap Simmon 22 scope I use with it. Compare that to a mag springer.
- I can use any scope on a PCP. Does not have to be airgun rated.
- No learning curve needed to shoot PCP. No recoil. None. Zip. Shoot it just like your rimfire.
- Plenty accurate. Will shoot sub inch at 50 yards all day long with the Crosman HP Domed pellets.
All this coming from a diehard springer shooter. We rarely shoot our PCPs, mostly because we no longer hunt. It's all paper, now. For hunting, though, I'd be darn sure to be carrying around that Disco, not one of our big springers.
What would you say about the regular maintenance of a simple PCP?
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Honestly, I don' t think you need a magnum springer for the critters you listed. A 15-20 fpe springer will do.
And I'll recommend a Walther Parrus .22 cal. They can be found for under $200 and worth every penny.
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Another vote for going PCP. Just more practical for that application in every regard. Take for instance my Benjamin Disco in 22 with an add on moderator that I got used for $150 with the easy to use Benjamin pump (even this old lady can pump up the low psi Disco as needed).
Consider:
- the Disco gives me more power than any magnum springer.
- with the add on moderator, it is quieter than even our light power springers
- the gun weighs about 5 pounds plus with the cheap Simmon 22 scope I use with it. Compare that to a mag springer.
- I can use any scope on a PCP. Does not have to be airgun rated.
- No learning curve needed to shoot PCP. No recoil. None. Zip. Shoot it just like your rimfire.
- Plenty accurate. Will shoot sub inch at 50 yards all day long with the Crosman HP Domed pellets.
All this coming from a diehard springer shooter. We rarely shoot our PCPs, mostly because we no longer hunt. It's all paper, now. For hunting, though, I'd be darn sure to be carrying around that Disco, not one of our big springers.
What would you say about the regular maintenance of a simple PCP?
Given that our Disco only gets shot a few times a year and spends most of the time in the safe, not much, other than to be sure there is a charge in the reservoir when stored for the sake of maintaining the seals, same as any other pneumatic. I do check, periodically, too, to make sure the charge is holding. Overall, I don't have any more maintenance issues with any of our pneumatics, either PCP our pumpers, than our springers. In other words, very reliable when you take some very simple precautions. For example, we have some Sheridan and Benjamin pumpers from the 60s and 70s that still hold air and shoot great.
You'll actually have more wear and tear and maintenance on the pump if you use one for a fill than you will on the gun and, of course, none at all if you use a tank for a fill.
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Another vote for going PCP. Just more practical for that application in every regard. Take for instance my Benjamin Disco in 22 with an add on moderator that I got used for $150 with the easy to use Benjamin pump (even this old lady can pump up the low psi Disco as needed).
Consider:
- the Disco gives me more power than any magnum springer.
- with the add on moderator, it is quieter than even our light power springers
- the gun weighs about 5 pounds plus with the cheap Simmon 22 scope I use with it. Compare that to a mag springer.
- I can use any scope on a PCP. Does not have to be airgun rated.
- No learning curve needed to shoot PCP. No recoil. None. Zip. Shoot it just like your rimfire.
- Plenty accurate. Will shoot sub inch at 50 yards all day long with the Crosman HP Domed pellets.
All this coming from a diehard springer shooter. We rarely shoot our PCPs, mostly because we no longer hunt. It's all paper, now. For hunting, though, I'd be darn sure to be carrying around that Disco, not one of our big springers.
+1 NCG & Y -
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I'm also recommending the 460. It just feels right in my hands!
That said, I had Scott Schneider work mine over to smooth it out. In the process, it went from 20+ FPE to 14ish, but that works well for what I do with it. It will still put down the usual varmints up to medium range, and is a joy to shoot. Highly accurate.
But if one is a slave to break barrels, I would point the OP to an RWS 350, or the R1/HW80. My vintage R1 is a tack driving hammer! Both of mine are in .22, which caliber I am a slave to!
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Thank you.
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No springer comes close to a .22 LR. That is just the way it is!
If you want quiet, I'd recommend some CCI Quiet. My RWS 34, before I pit the soft kit in it, was louder than the CCI Quiet in her little Cricket.
I can shoot a hole in the burn barrel with my daughter's cricket and proceed to keep all shots touching it with this load in her gun from about 20 yards leaned against the door jamb. That is about as good as I can do with anything.
But you are still dealing with the sectional density of a bullet that may exit and still have enough steam to injure or kill.
I would go with a Diana 48. That is the springer I find myself wishing I had. A bit hefty but not overly, and balances nicely.
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No springer comes close to a .22 LR. That is just the way it is!
If you want quiet, I'd recommend some CCI Quiet. My RWS 34, before I pit the soft kit in it, was louder than the CCI Quiet in her little Cricket.
I can shoot a hole in the burn barrel with my daughter's cricket and proceed to keep all shots touching it with this load in her gun from about 20 yards leaned against the door jamb. That is about as good as I can do with anything.
But you are still dealing with the sectional density of a bullet that may exit and still have enough steam to injure or kill.
I would go with a Diana 48. That is the springer I find myself wishing I had. A bit hefty but not overly, and balances nicely.
I agree with the rimfire advice, one with a long barrel will be even quieter.
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Ask yourself this, if you have a head shot on a skunk at 60 yards away, 3/4 inch kill zone or your yard will smell terrible for a whole week, What would you do? Do you feel lucky? ;D
Seriously, I would not like to shoot a 25 lbs raccoon at 50 yards with a springer. Squirrels, rabbits, birds, no problem.... ;)
You can make PCP's whisper quiet, no can do-yes pun intended-with springers. :o
-Y
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I have dispatched (killed) coons with my Crosman Genesis NP in .22. out to 20 yards.
That was my "go to" airgun for hunting before getting ito PCP's. It is about 800-850 fps - ~20 ft/lbs. (depending on the pellet)
Point being you don't need a full blown "magnum". It is all about shot placement. I consider today's Magnum anything 1000 fps or over. Pellets get unstable at those speeds and accuracy suffers.
IF I were to dabble in Magnum Springers, an R1 would be at the top of my list. Next, and oddly enough a polar opposite, would be call Mike Mellic at Flying Dragon and tell him what you want to do with one of his tuned XS28-M.
While some may argue, I firmly believe... no springer will compete with a quality .22lr at distances past 50 yards.
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While some may argue, I firmly believe... no springer will compete with a quality .22lr at distances past 50 yards.
Quality 22lr rifles are not ez to come by and quality (consistent) 22lr ammo isn't either. I've had bunches of them. While the ballistics are much better on paper for the 22lr. The real world unpredictable nature of the 22LR package doesn't make them much good past 50 yards. Personally I think a PCP is much better for pesting past 50 yards than a springer or 22lr.
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Another vote for 460 Magnum!
I own the 460, 350, and 48, all in .22, and in the past have owned the high powered Hatsan's. The Hatsan has more raw power but it is not nearly as accurate. It is the best choice if you are just shooting through stuff for fun. If you want accuracy and power the 460 is, in my opinion, the obvious winner of the ones I have tried.
The 350 magnum is a great gun and so beautiful to look at, but it is a little harder to shoot accurately. It used to be my favorite until I got the 460 a month ago. I am completely blown away with the performance of this thing. I can shoot it more accurately and consistently than the 350 and even the 48, and it has almost the same power as the 350.
With RWS MK 14.0gr I am getting 850, 905, 900 fps for the Model 48, 350, and 460 respectively if that helps.
Best magnum break barrel I have ever shot!
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I have dispatched (killed) coons with my Crosman Genesis NP in .22. out to 20 yards.
That was my "go to" airgun for hunting before getting ito PCP's. It is about 800-850 fps - ~20 ft/lbs. (depending on the pellet)
Point being you don't need a full blown "magnum". It is all about shot placement. I consider today's Magnum anything 1000 fps or over. Pellets get unstable at those speeds and accuracy suffers.
IF I were to dabble in Magnum Springers, an R1 would be at the top of my list. Next, and oddly enough a polar opposite, would be call Mike Mellic at Flying Dragon and tell him what you want to do with one of his tuned XS28-M.
While some may argue, I firmly believe... no springer will compete with a quality .22lr at distances past 50 yards.
You got a baby. It couldn't weigh more than 10 lbs, probably less. Now triple the distance triple the weight of the animal, how do you think things would turn out?
Yes, 20 yards no problem. 60 yards, problem. >:(
-Y
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I agree 100% Yogi.
All my pesting was less than 30 yards... much less.
Think I had a thread here a while back on "stalking skills" in order to keep it that way.
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I always take "out to 50 yards" as more like 20-30 yards. With 50 yards being a max distance shot that is rarely taken. Where I am from you rarely could even find a small game animal that far out.
Everybody new to airguns comments "out to 50 yards". Also even discussing firearms and large game animals, everybody still seems to talk "out to 300" or "out to 400" even though I have only met a couple people in my life that ever attempted a shot past 150 yards or so.
So I don't get too emotional over stuff like that. Friendly advice is one thing, shaking your proverbial finger at the new guy is completely different. It only serves to push them away.
I would argue that inside of 25 yards, about a 15 fpe, accurate springer with good quality domes is enough gun for anything up to/including a mature raccoon. Given a brain shot of course.
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I realize this is an airgun forum...... but why not get a .22 long rifle and use Aguila subsonic ammo or .22 CB caps? The are 40 grain bullets doing around 400 or 800 FPS depending what type of ammo you use. I have bolt action .22's that are freaking deadly with no suppressor because of the ammo. Add the suppressor and turn up the power, or just go to .300 Blackout. :) .
I do know some States are not NFA friendly and I know some folks have backgrounds that prevent them from having tax stamp toys. PCP just seems so expensive to get into.
https://www.aguilaammo.com/rimfire/ (https://www.aguilaammo.com/rimfire/)
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Easily Pays for itself in cost of ammo in a year, for starters
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While some may argue, I firmly believe... no springer will compete with a quality .22lr at distances past 50 yards.
Quality 22lr rifles are not ez to come by and quality (consistent) 22lr ammo isn't either.
Sir, "not easy to come by" is a pretty vague statement and maybe I don't understand what you are trying to say.
But, I think that I probably disagree.
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Good point on the 30 yard range for AGs. Have always felt that 30-35 yards is basically the "home range" for airguns.
Also agree on the practicality of using a 22 with CB caps or, better, yet, 22 LR CCI Quiet. We have used them in our backyard, too. Keep in mind, though, these are not accuracy rounds. At 30 yards, CB rounds are pretty bleak for accuracy. CCI Quiets are better for accuracy at 30 yards, but any of our springers will still shoot better groups at 30 yards and a PCP is still quieter.
As always, just a matter of picking the option that best works for you.
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Not to mention all that "special" quiet ammo cost more.
If you had to use cb caps to clear your bird feeders of invasives and squirrels etc. it could cost thousands per year.
.177 cphp is like 2-3 cents a round?
Sorry, it's 1-2 cents a round. Sorreh
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Yup, low ammo cost is always a plus for AGs. Just one of the many reasons I love it.
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I always take "out to 50 yards" as more like 20-30 yards. With 50 yards being a max distance shot that is rarely taken. Where I am from you rarely could even find a small game animal that far out.
Everybody new to airguns comments "out to 50 yards". Also even discussing firearms and large game animals, everybody still seems to talk "out to 300" or "out to 400" even though I have only met a couple people in my life that ever attempted a shot past 150 yards or so.
So I don't get too emotional over stuff like that. Friendly advice is one thing, shaking your proverbial finger at the new guy is completely different. It only serves to push them away.
I would argue that inside of 25 yards, about a 15 fpe, accurate springer with good quality domes is enough gun for anything up to/including a mature raccoon. Given a brain shot of course.
Jeez,
i thought Texas was big wide open country. :D Come to Cali if you want to shoot at distance.
I guy I shoot with at the range hits a 2inch bell set at 120 yards 9 times out of 10 with his .25 FX. 100 yard shots are very doable with a PCP, not with a springer.
Anyway, since the OP has not chimed in about his normal hunting distance all of this is just conjecture..... :-[
-Y
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Totally bed-ridden with a real bad flu. My body aches all over and my head is about to explode, so I am trying to rest and not get railed up, I am also trying to understand the motives of each and every answer here, and while yes, there's a bunch of conjectures, the truth is that it has been an interesting read to understand the diversity of airgunners in the forum.
Now, talking from MY experience:
Aguila SSS's need a special barrel to be accurate (fast twist), not always in the shooter's plans or possibilities.
CB Caps and other "Flobert" style of loads are ridiculously inaccurate at anything past 20 yards from sporter guns. SOME match guns shoot them well out to 30 yards, but they are also rare and far between. Remember Flobert loads were born to shoot inside parlor rooms (ZimmerStutzen), not outdoors. They are also expensive, when you can get them.
I don't know the size of our friend the OP's backyard, but if he uses a shotgun now and then, I have to assume he has a clear 150-200 yards straight out. Otherwise, usage of a shotgun (in ANY gauge) would border on the highly irresponsible.
SO, he WANTS to shoot long range (50 and over), BUT he has expressed his desire for a spring gun. He has also placed a cap at $500, so that rules out the more refined/expensive ones, and leaves us with true "sporter" guns.
From teaching shooting and coaching shooters experience, I would tell the OP that going to a spring gun is a complete change in shooting habits (at that price level). Gone is the cheek weld, the tight forearm control, the pull by the trigger hand into the shoulder.
He will venture into a completely new world. He says he has read about this, but how much he has "digested" that he will have to relearn how to shoot, is still to be discussed.
The price cap, also means that once you take into account the initial expenses on HPA supply, there is not much room for a quality PCP. Those who mention FX's are clearly out of contact with this person's reality.
At that price level, he would do well to look into a Stormrider or a Gauntlet. Different beasts, but basically in the same price bracket. The Discovery is a 12 year old technology that has not kept the pace. Yes it can be updated (and Crosman's efforts and failure) have shown that it is not that easy to make it an "Optimum" rifle. Yes it is workable, and yes it MAY provide endless entertainment (IF that is what the OP is looking for) in the tinkering phase. Choosing the GAMO Urban or Coyote, would leave precious little money for the sighting system.
IMMHO, the proposal of a 460 (used) is the most meritorious, as long as we make a complete proposal. Just suggesting the OP to purchase one would be delinquent on our part. So, let's flesh out the whole process:
IDEALLY, he should get a gun that has been used already this will save him the time and effort of shooting it in and will provide SOME level of benchmark. IF he can get one that, for any reason, is shooting at around the 12-14 ft-lbs ME, he has scored a first victory.
With this rifle in hand, he can then sit down and learn by direct first-hand contact, the reality of springer shooting.
He should invest in a ZR mount, and the best scope he can buy, because everybody has been talking "power", but few have said that the "Emperor is naked" in the sense that power in airguns is a "hygiene" factor (A minimum has to be there, but it is not the over-riding factor).
SO, let's say it clearly: "AIRGUNS KILL BY PRECISION OF SHOT PLACEMENT" Anything else is rubbish.
You need 3 ft-lbs to break a mammal's skin, then about 1 ft-lb per inch of penetration in organs, 2 ft-lbs per inch of penetration in muscle. Using a 0.22" pellet, 3 ft-lbs will break most bones (exception being an O'Possum's skull in a raking shot). So, do your maths: A well placed 0.22" pellet that LANDS with 8 ft-lbs will kill a Raccon, a Groundhog, a Badger, and most other small/noxious animals. Yes you need to shoot accurately, but that is the threshold. And that power level is well within the possibilities of a 14 ft-lbs / 16 grs. DIANA 460 well out to about 70 yards.
Now, I am not saying that the OP should even ATTEMPT a 70 yards shot, but I am just saying that the "Hygiene" factor is there and with some leeway to boot.
The other advantage of buying a used 460 in the 14 ft-lbs yield region is that, as the OP skills grow, the gun can grow with him.
A change in spring/tune, and he is at the next level. Something you cannot really say about RF's, and only up to an extent with PCP's.
I am somewhat used to shooting 1.5" targets at 55 yards, part of being an FT shooter, and I do it at 12 ft-lbs with a 0.177" cal, yes it takes practice, but it is doable, and therefore, rewarding.
The 460 is a mature and stable platform, technologically speaking. And there are plenty of experiences/kits/accessories/information about them.
By advising, not only the entry point, but also the process of advancement, we might be doing the sport some good because, AFAIK, most people that quit airguns after trying them, quit them because their expectations were too high to start with.
JMMHO
HM
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I am guessing the poster wants to avoid the extra equipment needed for a pcp.Why would a seneca aspen,nova freedom not fit his needs.Pcp acurate power no extra equipment required and in the price range.
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I have faith in PCPs for ease of everything. I especially enjoyed using the .22 Tarantula and the .22 Black Widow--my first two PCPs from FX. It was an $800 investment just in the rifle back in the late 90s. I went through many PCPs and all of them no matter how reliable or unregulated or regulated needed attendance without long spans of being left alone. They fail in seals and all sorts of things. I only have one PCP and that was around $1000 or more in the days I got it, the Beeman Falcon R-x .25. It still works ever since 2006.
The springers do have a way of introducing anyone into another kind of air shooting unique to the sport. The Diana and HW series showing the way with new additions along the way.
Well every springer has an accurate range it CAN be relied on to utilize whether short or long range. Fifty yards was always my limit even with the Theoben Gas ram--and it's because the hollow pellet can only go so far to do what it is intended to do and then it is off to the wind.
The .22 LR is quite impressive clear out to 100 yards with open sights on any rifle made for it. I went through a few and kept a USSR Vostok Ural 1 (24" Heavy barrel left hand twist) and a Remington 513 Matchmaster (27" barrel, right twist) with Redfield Globe sights. These two are target rifles and they do much better than any pellet rifle in my inventory for accuracy and range.
Shooting a .22 Match Rifle is how a springer must be shot. Yes the bullet version goes faster with powder but the gun is so heavy little is felt in recoil. Pellet rifles also move and have vibration sweet spots that moderators can be used to exploit, but that takes a bit of shooting practice with a moderator in place.
Most muzzle ends are sans "muzzle brakes" unless one is there to GRIP and handle the barrel while cocking--darned if I know why they aren't also made to SILENCE.
I used moderators on the Tarantula and Black Widow and those moderators were actually functional as silencers. That is what made the .22 PCP the big bang for me in those days, quietness.
Well, I can achieve that today with a regular break barrel springer and short barrel with Weihrauch Moderator I did not have to install to find out about in performance. The idea sounded "cool" and the look on the chopped and canned HW80 turned it into a special ops or covert mission rifle look--more dangerous in the right hands--but I wasn't expecting much more than what I already knew the HW80 does.
Turned out to be a success! The Canned Twenty Two is much more silent than the uncanned versions, and accuracy to me seems to be the same or better with the can on.
I can see that Hector's view from the bedded down flu position is on target.
Hope you get well Hector,
J
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Just for u all's info I have shot plenty of G-Hogs @75yds with a 460 in .22cal and their just as dead as if I had shot them with a .22lr, I only take head shots! and the 460 has more then enough power to do the job!!!! :o
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I did not see ANYTHING in the OP that mentioned 50 yards.
That was brought up later by another member if I am reading this correctly.
He simply asked "Best Magnum Springer for under $500" in compariosion to a 22lr.
Just as a refesher...
Hello everyone! I have come to ask you for some advice. I am in need of a pellet gun that is as close to a .22lr as possible. I have been researching pretty hard trying to decide what route to go. But there are so many options. This will be my first “real” pellet rifle. I do have experience with a cheaper .177 springer but now I’m looking for something capable of dispatching larger animals. Possums, coons, armadillos, squirrels basically everything short of whitetail ends up in my yard eating my cats food or chewing up my cars wiring.
For the past year I have been dealing with the problems with either a 12ga, 5.56, or 17hmr. The issue is noise though, my cats now have the 1000 yard stare going on and I’m afraid I might have to get them some ptsd counseling if I keep it up with the big guns 😂 so I’m trying to dial it back a little, but I still need something with power to dispatch things quickly and humanely.
The rifle that has really caught my eye is the rws 350 magnum in .22. But I’m curious, it seems the spring powered version of this rifle has been out for a long time. I haven’t had much luck finding anything that has much better specs though. Gamo seems to have a rifle that is a little more powerful but tbh they just don’t really do it for me.
So in short, I’m looking for a spring powered, user serviceable, high quality, high power .22 caliber. Is there anything out there that will beat the rws 350? Thanks for reading my book 😂.
Just to note, I do understand that magnum springers are more difficult in every area. I will accept the steep learning curve and harsh lessons if it means that I will eventually end up with a weapon that would take the place of a real rifle.
I have a pre-war Mossberg that holds sub 1/4" with CCI SSV's WAY out there...but that is not what he is asking for.
So in retrospect, my answer is as off track as many.... If you want the best, Go German!
A Diana 460 is an underlever, To me that alone beats a break-barrel by spades.
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Totally bed-ridden with a real bad flu. My body aches all over and my head is about to explode, so I am trying to rest and not get railed up, I am also trying to understand the motives of each and every answer here, and while yes, there's a bunch of conjectures, the truth is that it has been an interesting read to understand the diversity of airgunners in the forum.
Now, talking from MY experience:
Aguila SSS's need a special barrel to be accurate (fast twist), not always in the shooter's plans or possibilities.
CB Caps and other "Flobert" style of loads are ridiculously inaccurate at anything past 20 yards from sporter guns. SOME match guns shoot them well out to 30 yards, but they are also rare and far between. Remember Flobert loads were born to shoot inside parlor rooms (ZimmerStutzen), not outdoors. They are also expensive, when you can get them.
I don't know the size of our friend the OP's backyard, but if he uses a shotgun now and then, I have to assume he has a clear 150-200 yards straight out. Otherwise, usage of a shotgun (in ANY gauge) would border on the highly irresponsible.
SO, he WANTS to shoot long range (50 and over), BUT he has expressed his desire for a spring gun. He has also placed a cap at $500, so that rules out the more refined/expensive ones, and leaves us with true "sporter" guns.
From teaching shooting and coaching shooters experience, I would tell the OP that going to a spring gun is a complete change in shooting habits (at that price level). Gone is the cheek weld, the tight forearm control, the pull by the trigger hand into the shoulder.
He will venture into a completely new world. He says he has read about this, but how much he has "digested" that he will have to relearn how to shoot, is still to be discussed.
The price cap, also means that once you take into account the initial expenses on HPA supply, there is not much room for a quality PCP. Those who mention FX's are clearly out of contact with this person's reality.
At that price level, he would do well to look into a Stormrider or a Gauntlet. Different beasts, but basically in the same price bracket. The Discovery is a 12 year old technology that has not kept the pace. Yes it can be updated (and Crosman's efforts and failure) have shown that it is not that easy to make it an "Optimum" rifle. Yes it is workable, and yes it MAY provide endless entertainment (IF that is what the OP is looking for) in the tinkering phase. Choosing the GAMO Urban or Coyote, would leave precious little money for the sighting system.
IMMHO, the proposal of a 460 (used) is the most meritorious, as long as we make a complete proposal. Just suggesting the OP to purchase one would be delinquent on our part. So, let's flesh out the whole process:
IDEALLY, he should get a gun that has been used already this will save him the time and effort of shooting it in and will provide SOME level of benchmark. IF he can get one that, for any reason, is shooting at around the 12-14 ft-lbs ME, he has scored a first victory.
With this rifle in hand, he can then sit down and learn by direct first-hand contact, the reality of springer shooting.
He should invest in a ZR mount, and the best scope he can buy, because everybody has been talking "power", but few have said that the "Emperor is naked" in the sense that power in airguns is a "hygiene" factor (A minimum has to be there, but it is not the over-riding factor).
SO, let's say it clearly: "AIRGUNS KILL BY PRECISION OF SHOT PLACEMENT" Anything else is rubbish.
You need 3 ft-lbs to break a mammal's skin, then about 1 ft-lb per inch of penetration in organs, 2 ft-lbs per inch of penetration in muscle. Using a 0.22" pellet, 3 ft-lbs will break most bones (exception being an O'Possum's skull in a raking shot). So, do your maths: A well placed 0.22" pellet that LANDS with 8 ft-lbs will kill a Raccon, a Groundhog, a Badger, and most other small/noxious animals. Yes you need to shoot accurately, but that is the threshold. And that power level is well within the possibilities of a 14 ft-lbs / 16 grs. DIANA 460 well out to about 70 yards.
Now, I am not saying that the OP should even ATTEMPT a 70 yards shot, but I am just saying that the "Hygiene" factor is there and with some leeway to boot.
The other advantage of buying a used 460 in the 14 ft-lbs yield region is that, as the OP skills grow, the gun can grow with him.
A change in spring/tune, and he is at the next level. Something you cannot really say about RF's, and only up to an extent with PCP's.
I am somewhat used to shooting 1.5" targets at 55 yards, part of being an FT shooter, and I do it at 12 ft-lbs with a 0.177" cal, yes it takes practice, but it is doable, and therefore, rewarding.
The 460 is a mature and stable platform, technologically speaking. And there are plenty of experiences/kits/accessories/information about them.
By advising, not only the entry point, but also the process of advancement, we might be doing the sport some good because, AFAIK, most people that quit airguns after trying them, quit them because their expectations were too high to start with.
JMMHO
HM
Sorry to hear you are under the weather, next year get a flu shot! ;) :D ;D
-Y
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IMMHO, the proposal of a 460 (used) is the most meritorious, as long as we make a complete proposal. Just suggesting the OP to purchase one would be delinquent on our part. So, let's flesh out the whole process:
IDEALLY, he should get a gun that has been used already this will save him the time and effort of shooting it in and will provide SOME level of benchmark. IF he can get one that, for any reason, is shooting at around the 12-14 ft-lbs ME, he has scored a first victory.
I agree with the logic of starting low power and working up, but the OP did specifically ask about magnum springers, which is why I recommended the 460.
The 460 (in .22) out of the box is more like 25 FPE. Why would someone detune it down to 12-14 FPE? Wouldn't a nice Model 34 be better for that range?
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Lastly ...
If you really must have a Springer, get a HW80 in .22 caliber from Krale for $425 (shipped to you in 3 days) or a Diana 460 in .22 from PA for $440 (including tax). They both will give you ample power and accuracy; the Diana is a lighter, Under Lever, while the Weihrauch is a more highly finished, break barrel.
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Totally bed-ridden with a real bad flu. My body aches all over and my head is about to explode, so I am trying to rest and not get railed up, I am also trying to understand the motives of each and every answer here, and while yes, there's a bunch of conjectures, the truth is that it has been an interesting read to understand the diversity of airgunners in the forum.
Now, talking from MY experience:
Aguila SSS's need a special barrel to be accurate (fast twist), not always in the shooter's plans or possibilities.
CB Caps and other "Flobert" style of loads are ridiculously inaccurate at anything past 20 yards from sporter guns. SOME match guns shoot them well out to 30 yards, but they are also rare and far between. Remember Flobert loads were born to shoot inside parlor rooms (ZimmerStutzen), not outdoors. They are also expensive, when you can get them.
I don't know the size of our friend the OP's backyard, but if he uses a shotgun now and then, I have to assume he has a clear 150-200 yards straight out. Otherwise, usage of a shotgun (in ANY gauge) would border on the highly irresponsible.
SO, he WANTS to shoot long range (50 and over), BUT he has expressed his desire for a spring gun. He has also placed a cap at $500, so that rules out the more refined/expensive ones, and leaves us with true "sporter" guns.
From teaching shooting and coaching shooters experience, I would tell the OP that going to a spring gun is a complete change in shooting habits (at that price level). Gone is the cheek weld, the tight forearm control, the pull by the trigger hand into the shoulder.
He will venture into a completely new world. He says he has read about this, but how much he has "digested" that he will have to relearn how to shoot, is still to be discussed.
The price cap, also means that once you take into account the initial expenses on HPA supply, there is not much room for a quality PCP. Those who mention FX's are clearly out of contact with this person's reality.
At that price level, he would do well to look into a Stormrider or a Gauntlet. Different beasts, but basically in the same price bracket. The Discovery is a 12 year old technology that has not kept the pace. Yes it can be updated (and Crosman's efforts and failure) have shown that it is not that easy to make it an "Optimum" rifle. Yes it is workable, and yes it MAY provide endless entertainment (IF that is what the OP is looking for) in the tinkering phase. Choosing the GAMO Urban or Coyote, would leave precious little money for the sighting system.
IMMHO, the proposal of a 460 (used) is the most meritorious, as long as we make a complete proposal. Just suggesting the OP to purchase one would be delinquent on our part. So, let's flesh out the whole process:
IDEALLY, he should get a gun that has been used already this will save him the time and effort of shooting it in and will provide SOME level of benchmark. IF he can get one that, for any reason, is shooting at around the 12-14 ft-lbs ME, he has scored a first victory.
With this rifle in hand, he can then sit down and learn by direct first-hand contact, the reality of springer shooting.
He should invest in a ZR mount, and the best scope he can buy, because everybody has been talking "power", but few have said that the "Emperor is naked" in the sense that power in airguns is a "hygiene" factor (A minimum has to be there, but it is not the over-riding factor).
SO, let's say it clearly: "AIRGUNS KILL BY PRECISION OF SHOT PLACEMENT" Anything else is rubbish.
You need 3 ft-lbs to break a mammal's skin, then about 1 ft-lb per inch of penetration in organs, 2 ft-lbs per inch of penetration in muscle. Using a 0.22" pellet, 3 ft-lbs will break most bones (exception being an O'Possum's skull in a raking shot). So, do your maths: A well placed 0.22" pellet that LANDS with 8 ft-lbs will kill a Raccon, a Groundhog, a Badger, and most other small/noxious animals. Yes you need to shoot accurately, but that is the threshold. And that power level is well within the possibilities of a 14 ft-lbs / 16 grs. DIANA 460 well out to about 70 yards.
Now, I am not saying that the OP should even ATTEMPT a 70 yards shot, but I am just saying that the "Hygiene" factor is there and with some leeway to boot.
The other advantage of buying a used 460 in the 14 ft-lbs yield region is that, as the OP skills grow, the gun can grow with him.
A change in spring/tune, and he is at the next level. Something you cannot really say about RF's, and only up to an extent with PCP's.
I am somewhat used to shooting 1.5" targets at 55 yards, part of being an FT shooter, and I do it at 12 ft-lbs with a 0.177" cal, yes it takes practice, but it is doable, and therefore, rewarding.
The 460 is a mature and stable platform, technologically speaking. And there are plenty of experiences/kits/accessories/information about them.
By advising, not only the entry point, but also the process of advancement, we might be doing the sport some good because, AFAIK, most people that quit airguns after trying them, quit them because their expectations were too high to start with.
JMMHO ... HM
Great Job Hector ... in fleshing out the process a shooter should think through on a Springer. Nothing worse than being sick for the Holidays ...... :P
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Hector, sorry to hear about the flu. Tis the season. Get well, soon.
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Totally bed-ridden with a real bad flu. My body aches all over and my head is about to explode, so I am trying to rest and not get railed up, I am also trying to understand the motives of each and every answer here, and while yes, there's a bunch of conjectures, the truth is that it has been an interesting read to understand the diversity of airgunners in the forum.
Now, talking from MY experience:
Aguila SSS's need a special barrel to be accurate (fast twist), not always in the shooter's plans or possibilities.
CB Caps and other "Flobert" style of loads are ridiculously inaccurate at anything past 20 yards from sporter guns. SOME match guns shoot them well out to 30 yards, but they are also rare and far between. Remember Flobert loads were born to shoot inside parlor rooms (ZimmerStutzen), not outdoors. They are also expensive, when you can get them.
I don't know the size of our friend the OP's backyard, but if he uses a shotgun now and then, I have to assume he has a clear 150-200 yards straight out. Otherwise, usage of a shotgun (in ANY gauge) would border on the highly irresponsible.
SO, he WANTS to shoot long range (50 and over), BUT he has expressed his desire for a spring gun. He has also placed a cap at $500, so that rules out the more refined/expensive ones, and leaves us with true "sporter" guns.
From teaching shooting and coaching shooters experience, I would tell the OP that going to a spring gun is a complete change in shooting habits (at that price level). Gone is the cheek weld, the tight forearm control, the pull by the trigger hand into the shoulder.
He will venture into a completely new world. He says he has read about this, but how much he has "digested" that he will have to relearn how to shoot, is still to be discussed.
The price cap, also means that once you take into account the initial expenses on HPA supply, there is not much room for a quality PCP. Those who mention FX's are clearly out of contact with this person's reality.
At that price level, he would do well to look into a Stormrider or a Gauntlet. Different beasts, but basically in the same price bracket. The Discovery is a 12 year old technology that has not kept the pace. Yes it can be updated (and Crosman's efforts and failure) have shown that it is not that easy to make it an "Optimum" rifle. Yes it is workable, and yes it MAY provide endless entertainment (IF that is what the OP is looking for) in the tinkering phase. Choosing the GAMO Urban or Coyote, would leave precious little money for the sighting system.
IMMHO, the proposal of a 460 (used) is the most meritorious, as long as we make a complete proposal. Just suggesting the OP to purchase one would be delinquent on our part. So, let's flesh out the whole process:
IDEALLY, he should get a gun that has been used already this will save him the time and effort of shooting it in and will provide SOME level of benchmark. IF he can get one that, for any reason, is shooting at around the 12-14 ft-lbs ME, he has scored a first victory.
With this rifle in hand, he can then sit down and learn by direct first-hand contact, the reality of springer shooting.
He should invest in a ZR mount, and the best scope he can buy, because everybody has been talking "power", but few have said that the "Emperor is naked" in the sense that power in airguns is a "hygiene" factor (A minimum has to be there, but it is not the over-riding factor).
SO, let's say it clearly: "AIRGUNS KILL BY PRECISION OF SHOT PLACEMENT" Anything else is rubbish.
You need 3 ft-lbs to break a mammal's skin, then about 1 ft-lb per inch of penetration in organs, 2 ft-lbs per inch of penetration in muscle. Using a 0.22" pellet, 3 ft-lbs will break most bones (exception being an O'Possum's skull in a raking shot). So, do your maths: A well placed 0.22" pellet that LANDS with 8 ft-lbs will kill a Raccon, a Groundhog, a Badger, and most other small/noxious animals. Yes you need to shoot accurately, but that is the threshold. And that power level is well within the possibilities of a 14 ft-lbs / 16 grs. DIANA 460 well out to about 70 yards.
Now, I am not saying that the OP should even ATTEMPT a 70 yards shot, but I am just saying that the "Hygiene" factor is there and with some leeway to boot.
The other advantage of buying a used 460 in the 14 ft-lbs yield region is that, as the OP skills grow, the gun can grow with him.
A change in spring/tune, and he is at the next level. Something you cannot really say about RF's, and only up to an extent with PCP's.
I am somewhat used to shooting 1.5" targets at 55 yards, part of being an FT shooter, and I do it at 12 ft-lbs with a 0.177" cal, yes it takes practice, but it is doable, and therefore, rewarding.
The 460 is a mature and stable platform, technologically speaking. And there are plenty of experiences/kits/accessories/information about them.
By advising, not only the entry point, but also the process of advancement, we might be doing the sport some good because, AFAIK, most people that quit airguns after trying them, quit them because their expectations were too high to start with.
JMMHO
HM
Sorry to here that your felling poorly and hope you get well soon and I'm glad you didn't have it Monday night(:o)
A used 460 or a used 48 in .22 will do everything the OP wants and not break the bank.
When you look at the numbers the 48 is only slightly behind the 460 in energy and velocity. A couple of FPE will not make a difference on most game if the pellet is placed right.
I have killed G-hogs with my 430L at 30yds with 8.6gr pellets that were all one shot kills but then I was choosy where I placed my shots which were head shots usually in the ear area which is a natural soft spot.
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Yeah, go for the higher end springers.
If someone would give me a Hatsan or a Gamo springer I will just donate it--not kidding.
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There is a RWS 460 TO6 22 cal. in Members Classified right now.
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Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply to this! Sorry busy few days at work and the rest of the time researching has left little time for typing 😂. To start with, I own several .22lr’s but as has been mentioned truly consistent ammunition is almost as expensive as .17hmr so that’s why I use it currently in my cz452. Believe it or not I have killed a prairie dog at 247 yards in SD. Took 30 rounds or so to get lucky and connect but it did happen with witnesses lol. Also connected with another at 675 with a 220 swift. I have been through just dang near every .22lr round out there but I’m looking for something new. A new challenge I suppose lol. I also appreciate the pcp advice. Thank you but I dealt with scuba tanks, hydro testing, driving 1 hour each way to fill, screwing with orings and leaks and grouchy firefighters that wouldn’t fill my tanks at the station when I played paintball. I don’t mind working for my hobbies but that in itself became a second job. And 4500psi compressors are extremely expensive. I looked into it lol. Nah, those aren’t for me. A self contained springer is my game I think. Just deciding the model now.
Gamo meh, doesn’t do it for me. Hatsan meh, kinda more of the same. I guess my German heritage must be influencing me... I suppose I drive a vw for a reason 😂. The rws/Diana rifles tick the boxes for me. Soo now, on to the models, 48/52 seems interesting. I’m not sure I like the clicking sounds when cocking but otherwise it’s good. Seems to me most of the specs list it around the 20-21 lb range though. The 460 isn’t bad either, but I read some reviews of the cocking handle vibrating in the plastic clamp when firing. Anybody here experienced that? Also still seems like most put it in the same 20-21 lb range with someone stating the chamber is the same size between the 48/52 and the 460, with the 350 being the same diameter but a little longer.
So that brings us back to the 350, long sleek, most put it in the 24lb range. Some people talk about it being very hold sensitive. I’m okay with that if it’s just something that with lots of practice can be overcome. I’m okay with working for it. I think of all the actions I like the break barrel the best. But if the 350 is a terrible vibrating beast that’s just not at all useable I wouldn’t be completely opposed to a 48/52, 460 if they are far and above better... are they really that much better? Even if every other spec and price was the same between the 3 I think I would pick the 350 out of the bunch. But you guys know the guns. Do the cons make the 350 far worse than the other two? Even if it were “tuned” to have slightly less power but be smoother?
My front porch is 120 yards from my food plot. The groundhogs love to dig it up in the summer. My 50yard max range is definitely on the short side of what I actually shoot varmits at on a regular basis. But I also realize that would be an unrealistic expectation for an air rifle. Not for the .17 though 😎
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Just to clarify 247yards was with 22lr out of cz455. 17hmr would make that shot fairly easy.
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But if the 350 is a terrible vibrating beast that’s just not at all useable I wouldn’t be completely opposed to a 48/52, 460 if they are far and above better... are they really that much better? Even if every other spec and price was the same between the 3 I think I would pick the 350 out of the bunch. But you guys know the guns. Do the cons make the 350 far worse than the other two? Even if it were “tuned” to have slightly less power but be smoother?
No I wouldn't say far worse, but the 350 definitely shakes a bit more, which makes it a little harder to shoot consistently. It is still excellent, and I think it is the best looking of the bunch. Beautiful Checkered stock! The only way to know for sure is to shoot it for a while and see what you think. That's why I have so many. I remember when I first got the 350 noticing right away it was so much smoother than the Hatsan, and the 48 was smoother then that of course, but now I find I prefer the 460 over both, but that may just be personal preference. They are all great guns in their own way. I plan to sell my 350 and 48 eventually and just keep the 460 and the 34. Then I can buy more stuff :)
As for the 460 rattle, I haven't noticed it yet, but there seems to be an adjustment at the tip for tension on the cocking lever retaining ball that might tighten it up. I've also heard several stories of the cocking pins breaking, but so far all has been well.
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I like the idea of a new challenge, kinda like why I let my perfectly good $1200 compound bow that I spent several months truly learning to shoot a back tension release after 15+years of standard trigger releases set and gather dust and instead shoot a recurve instinctively with a tab. I am definitely interested in this whole new world of shooting lol. The picture is of a group I shot with my .17 awhile back. It’s a pretty good time as well.
On the $500 I try to stay at a reasonable buy in price to start with on new hobby’s until I’m sure it’s something I want to invest more in. I did not include an optic in that price. But if I can do far better raising that up a little I can. Is there another group of springers out there that I have missed over these prices? Sporting rifles that is. I don’t really have much interest in a bench gun. I have one of those in the safe gathering dust now 😂
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If you like the 350, I say go for it.
I had a 350P in .22 and lube tuned a regular 350 in .22 for a friend, both T06. They both shot great and grouped tighter than I expected for the power. They were pretty rough out of the box. Here's a thread on my 350P:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=111135.msg1062036#msg1062036 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=111135.msg1062036#msg1062036)
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Thank you both. I think I’m going to pull the trigger on a 350 at the beginning of the week. Midwayusa has one in stock that I could drive to pickup and have it a little sooner. But then again another busy week is already in the making so I might just order one to hopefully have by next weekend. I’m thinking I’ll just go plain Gun and break it in with iron sights to make sure I can tolerate it haha. Then I’ll go about driving myself nuts deciding on an air Gun rated scope lol.
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I went with the RWS 48 in .177 and .22 about 18 months ago, then more recently a 460, mostly because I always wanted a RWS 48 as a kid.
I love em and have taken coyotes here with them (caveat, the southwestern smaller yotes, not those big northern ones).
However, as once again proven today, they are terrible first round on target guns, and that in turn makes a terrible hunting rifle, just as it does with a centerfire. I shot on and off most of the day. In the morning I had to make some scope adjustments for center mass; halfway thru the day as temps rose to the high 40s, same thing, but adjustments going back toward original settings; then to close out the day, my adjustments ended very closely to where I started at in the morning. All adjustments were minor, no more than 4 or 5 clicks.
I noticed early on they are very temp sensitive. My opinion. I think, but am not sure, it has something to do with air density and the springer.
Anyway, my free 2 cents, look for reviews or advice on a .22 that indicate great 1st round on target. That is what makes, well part of anyway, a great hunting rifle, air or centerfire.
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I always take "out to 50 yards" as more like 20-30 yards. With 50 yards being a max distance shot that is rarely taken. Where I am from you rarely could even find a small game animal that far out.
Everybody new to airguns comments "out to 50 yards". Also even discussing firearms and large game animals, everybody still seems to talk "out to 300" or "out to 400" even though I have only met a couple people in my life that ever attempted a shot past 150 yards or so.
So I don't get too emotional over stuff like that. Friendly advice is one thing, shaking your proverbial finger at the new guy is completely different. It only serves to push them away.
I would argue that inside of 25 yards, about a 15 fpe, accurate springer with good quality domes is enough gun for anything up to/including a mature raccoon. Given a brain shot of course.
Jeez,
i thought Texas was big wide open country. :D Come to Cali if you want to shoot at distance.
I guy I shoot with at the range hits a 2inch bell set at 120 yards 9 times out of 10 with his .25 FX. 100 yard shots are very doable with a PCP, not with a springer.
Anyway, since the OP has not chimed in about his normal hunting distance all of this is just conjecture..... :-[
-Y
I was speaking to hunting, specifically.
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I haven't read every post, mostly because I'm not interested in reading 5 pages of opinions. But, the 350 can be had at half the price of the 460/48 a lot of times.
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I have a 350 Magnum T06 that I bought this year, in .22 and I dont like it. I know how to shoot a springer and its difficult to be consistent. Feel like i am fighting the gun.
Also bought an Octane, a Walther Parrus and a Ruger Air Magum this year, also all in .22. The Parrus is my favorite of the group.
Dont really care for the Octane either, but it is very accurate, i just hate the stock for some reason. Agree on the 460 being pricey and you can get a 430L for $149.00 right now from AOA. I love mine. Though the only come in .177.
I would recommend a the Flying Dragons version of the RWS 350. Love my underlever i bought from Mike a few months ago, and I already have the browning Leverage to compare it to. Mikes tune makes it a very different gun!
Wish I had known about Flying Dragon BEFORE I bought my RWS 350 Mag.
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Seriously the 48/52 will make up to 24fpe and the 460 over that if you lube tune it and space the spring which is easily done. The clicking noise you refer to is the bear trap engaging the sliding chamber and keeps the chamber from crushing your finger should for some reason the trigger mechanism fails to hold the piston or the trigger safety should fail and release the piston.
You won't see that much difference between the 350 and the 48/52 or the 460 as far as performance on game.
You will still need a Bullseye ZR mount to keep from breaking scopes and with it you can use any scope you already have and they don't affect the accuracy since they move back and forth on the steel rods.
There are cheaper Chinese knock offs but do yourself a favor and get the original ZR mount.
Just trying to help you to buy once and cry once. We all go threw this with the first adult air gun purchase and that's why most of us own more then one and for me my journey ended with the 54 but that is a different story and more then you want to spend.
Pyramid Air has the 460 of sale for around $400 and would be the better rifle for what you are planing to use it for. JMO
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Thank you both. I think I’m going to pull the trigger on a 350 at the beginning of the week. Midwayusa has one in stock that I could drive to pickup and have it a little sooner. But then again another busy week is already in the making so I might just order one to hopefully have by next weekend. I’m thinking I’ll just go plain Gun and break it in with iron sights to make sure I can tolerate it haha. Then I’ll go about driving myself nuts deciding on an air Gun rated scope lol.
Thanks to everyone for your kind wishes.
After two absolutely terrible nights, I hope next one will be better.
Anyway, back on track about the 350:
Our own M Schmitz has one on EBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Diana-RWS-350-Magnum-0-22-cal-Long-Range-Breakbarrel/254459948459 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Diana-RWS-350-Magnum-0-22-cal-Long-Range-Breakbarrel/254459948459)
You can hardly beat that price. And if he says the gun shoots well, I would have no reason to doubt it.
For the sake of full disclosure I must say I have NOTHING to do with Mr. Schmitz's sale, but I have always wondered why some good things seemingly happen EXACTLY when they should happen.
I like the 350 also, I've owned a couple and tuned quite a few, the simplicity of the breakbarrel is appealing. Yes they vibrate, but nothing a reasonably dimensioned muzzle weight cannot remedy:
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/139/dscf0002ho8.jpg)
They handle well offhand:
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/514/smdiana350jq3.jpg)
You do need to pay special attention to the CLOSING of the action, always doing it in exactly the same way, carelessness in this phase of the loading procedure will undoubtedly lead to "inaccuracy".
Some years ago, I won the Mexican FT Nationals shot at Ixtlahuaca with a 350:
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/198/ixtlahuaca35.jpg)
Posted second highest score, 1 point behind the PCP's.
I would still suggest you get a gun that is shooting, or can be MADE to shoot, at around 13-14 ft-lbs to get started, it will save you much frustration. The target & group you see above was shot by someone with extensive spring-piston shooting experience.
The ONLY drawback of the 350 is the long transfer port, that makes it less efficient than a sliding compression cylinder rifle (like the 460). That means you will need to input a little more energy for the same return in Muzzle energy yield (part of that energy goes into creating the vibrations). In a pure sporter/hunter system, that may not be even important, just need to mention it here for the sake of completeness.
Most 350's have better open sights than most 460's, it's just the way they are put together. The 460 can receive a custom made front muzzle piece with a finer sight
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/15/1000834av.jpg)
, the 350 will accept the interchangeable DIANA front sights.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/651/d34kp20matchcrown.jpg)
Muzzle weights can be made to accommodate the usage of iron sights:
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/685/1001209t.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/809/1001208f.jpg)
BOTH will take the Williams' "guide" sights, whether in peep or in notch styles.
As to the first shot POI, it must be said that the NATURE of the springer precludes an absolute precision in this sense. You will NEED to understand, see, and remember where is the POI from "cold bore" and adjust the first and second shots, most well tuned springers will settle down by the 3rd or 4th shot. The lower the power, the less difference there will be between "Cold Bore" shots and follow up ones. In here is where a good scope is absolutely essential.
At the range you want to shoot, a good scope is a must, but if you are somewhat limited in budget, do look at the SWFA 10X or 20X SuperSniper scopes, they are a cut above the rest and not that expensive. There are MUCH less expensive scopes, but for the range and targets you are talking about, I would not trust most of them. Shooting at living targets, whether pests or not, requires a much higher degree of sportsmanship than punching paper.
The other scope I can highly recommend is a SIGHTRON SIH FT in 4-12X40 with the MOA-20 reticule is quite useful for airgunners.
For the sake of sportsmanship, practice and try to keep all your shots to the distance you can "nail" the "medula oblongata".
These practice targets have provided me with good service over the last 17 years:
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/195/attach2.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/195/attachzyy.jpg)
I would still suggest a ZR Mount, if that is not possible, then an RWS lock-down mount.
Above all, be prepared to adapt and to work hard for your results.
Good luck and keep us posted!
HM
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Hector, will a D34 coil spring and guide fit in the D350 if a person wanted to drop down to typical 16 FPE (or 13.5 FPE with a JM spring) settings or would the 340 gas ram be the only option?
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Hector,
The Diana 350 is getting lots of recommendations. No recommendations for the Diana 350 N-Tec? Any thoughts suggestions? Also wouldn't this OP be a good candidate for the Sig ASP20 Airgun?
Hope you feel better, get a flue shot next year! ;)
-Y
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Hector,
The Diana 350 is getting lots of recommendations. No recommendations for the Diana 350 N-Tec? Any thoughts suggestions? Also wouldn't this OP be a good candidate for the Sig ASP20 Airgun?
Hope you feel better, get a flue shot next year! ;)
-Y
I don't do magnum springers, but if I did, I think I would give the Sig ASP20 a try.
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Thanks to everyone for your kind wishes.
After two absolutely terrible nights, I hope next one will be better.
Anyway, back on track about the 350:
I like the 350 also, I've owned a couple and tuned quite a few, the simplicity of the breakbarrel is appealing. Yes they vibrate, but nothing a reasonably dimensioned muzzle weight cannot remedy:
They handle well offhand:
You do need to pay special attention to the CLOSING of the action, always doing it in exactly the same way, carelessness in this phase of the loading procedure will undoubtedly lead to
Above all, be prepared to adapt and to work hard for your results.
Good luck and keep us posted!
HM
[/quote]
Thank you so much Hector! I hope you get to feeling better! This time of year is no good for being healthy. That is exactly the kind of information I’m looking for. You seem to be extremely knowledgeable about all the different models and for that I’m very grateful! I am excited for a new challenge. Do you think that 350 on ebay has the t05 trigger or the t06 being a 2016 model if I read correctly?
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I’m struggling here with getting the quotes right using my phone 😂. I looked at the 350n tech but isn’t it a gas ram instead of a spring? Is that user serviceable as easily as a spring is?
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I’m struggling here with getting the quotes right using my phone 😂. I looked at the 350n tech but isn’t it a gas ram instead of a spring? Is that user serviceable as easily as a spring is?
Not exactly. Disassemble/reassemble probably easier than the spring gun because the ram is under very little preload.
Availability of other rams for replacement, tuning and etc? Virtually non existant. You'll probably end up hunting for another industrial gas strut of some type with the same specs but different pressures and experimenting and learning for yourself.
Vs a springer- all spring powered Dianas have a plethora of springs and kits available. Except maybe the 240.
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One more vote for the Diana/RWS 460. Hard to beat for combined Power and accuracy.
ar
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The one thing nobody mentioned on this thread is Hector's observation said there are a number of different shooters here! He said if you are like me and others you may LIKE the break barrel aside from the underlever and that is an honest observation! Look at us! We are all swarming in with OUR desired shooting talents with different options fully backed by those posting.
I had said in the case of the HW80 .20, .22, .25 all meet my standards with the .22 being the first choice now! It used to be the .20 HW80--but that rifle is a heavier longer rifle. It has no sling swivels either!
Point I'm trying to make is a died in the wool .20 person (me) can find a solution in the .22.
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John I hear ya buddy, the .20 is a great caliber, IMO for the cost and the power the Diana's out of the box are tuff to beat, as well made as a HW not even close! But if ur looking for a magnum powered spring gun that's well made and will do the job nicely the Diana 460 48 52 54 class of rifles are easier to shoot well then the 350's in any caliber, I have only 1 Diana left in my stable and that's a T06 460mag in .22cal, IMO this is all the magnum powered spring gun I need for bigger critters, These rifles typically will shoot the harder Crosman pellets @ 825 to 850fps out of the box! I chose the 460mag for its hard hitting longer range capabilities with the Crosman pellets because these pellets penetrate bone, like sculls out at distances of 75yds and dispatch what I shoot with 1 shot! Softer pellets in my experience do not do the job! FTT's JSB's etc, yes I'm a big HW guy!!! and a .20cal guy! But you have to give credit where credit is due! In my experience the 460 is easier to operate load and shoot under field conditions then a side lever unless ur shooting prone, even then the side levers are cumbersome, were not talking about 12# guns here were talking about full power rifles! I know this will bring out a whole bunch of side lever guy's on this topic, but this is my experience having owned all of the big Diana magnums the 48's 52's 54's 350's 350 compacts ect, this my 2ct on what I think when these topics come up, but to each his or her own! I don't shoot my 460 much, only when going after G-Hogs @ distance! other then that I shoot my HW's ;)
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Mark, I'm having Hector build my last air rifle!
It's going to be the Diana 54 Air King like his in .20! I mentioned this some months ago while shooting his Diana 54 Air King .20 he used in competition. I didn't brag about it and in the meantime I was looking into the Blue Laminate 97K in .25 which went North to the HW80K .22.
So, not all would pay for it but I will and as far as I know I'm in line for this! I don't know how many he is going to make with the .20 barrels he has available as a last supply from somewhere.
I'll wait for it! In the mean I get to really hone up my off hand shooting with the HW80K. ;D
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I’m struggling here with getting the quotes right using my phone 😂. I looked at the 350n tech but isn’t it a gas ram instead of a spring? Is that user serviceable as easily as a spring is?
...Disassemble/reassemble probably easier than the spring gun because the ram is under very little preload.
...
Actually, more difficult. Although the preload distance is very short, the preload weight is extremely heavy. I can rebuild most spring guns including D350s without a compressor, but I cannot do a Crosman NP without one, not even the "soft" 650 fps model.
*Disclaimer- Rebuilding springers without a compressor is not recommended. I've done dozens of rebuilds for more than a decade and developed a technique that works for me. I have a compressor that I use for some guns including UK BSAs, FWB124s, pre T01 Dianas, and any NPs.
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John I hear ya buddy, the .20 is a great caliber, IMO for the cost and the power the Diana's out of the box are tuff to beat, as well made as a HW not even close! But if ur looking for a magnum powered spring gun that's well made and will do the job nicely the Diana 460 48 52 54 class of rifles are easier to shoot well then the 350's in any caliber, I have only 1 Diana left in my stable and that's a T06 460mag in .22cal, IMO this is all the magnum powered spring gun I need for bigger critters, These rifles typically will shoot the harder Crosman pellets @ 825 to 850fps out of the box! I chose the 460mag for its hard hitting longer range capabilities with the Crosman pellets because these pellets penetrate bone, like sculls out at distances of 75yds and dispatch what I shoot with 1 shot! Softer pellets in my experience do not do the job! FTT's JSB's etc, yes I'm a big HW guy!!! and a .20cal guy! But you have to give credit where credit is due! In my experience the 460 is easier to operate load and shoot under field conditions then a side lever unless ur shooting prone, even then the side levers are cumbersome, were not talking about 12# guns here were talking about full power rifles! I know this will bring out a whole bunch of side lever guy's on this topic, but this is my experience having owned all of the big Diana magnums the 48's 52's 54's 350's 350 compacts ect, this my 2ct on what I think when these topics come up, but to each his or her own! I don't shoot my 460 much, only when going after G-Hogs @ distance! other then that I shoot my HW's ;)
Funny you should say that Mark. The only springer I have that shoots crosman pellets well is my 460. Mainly use this for my pesting gun. It takes G-Hogs out to 60 yds. I don't try shots longer then that. Always try for a humane kill.
Tom
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After resisting the temptations from the Darkside (PCP), maybe we have a new diehard springer in gestation.
Ok, in despite of my post #4, I am focused on the D 350 T06 .22, and never had a PCP. Basically, focused on the challenge as a shooter, as I don't have room, skills and tools to go deep in tuning.
In terms of your accuracy, an important step is when you realize what kind of groups/distances are ok to - your needs/shot placement. Others may have their needs, you have - yours. In this way, although 'some' hits are very rewarding, the real challenge is to achieve what you think is a reasonable - consistency. Essentially, your consistency as the shooter; after discovering a good combo regarding holding, resting, breathing, squeezing the (adjusted for you) trigger, practicing to learn to be - repeatable.
On the other hand, I think you should start doing some research about: - spring compressor, barrel droop, "airgun rated" (!?) scopes and their available reticles (just in case, an essential feature is always a friendly warranty to your location).
Just to let you know, to a "magnum" springer, although some heavier pellets should go better.., (to my needs) I find a reasonable consistency with the HN Field Target Trophy 5.53 ("14.66" gr).
We're all ears, keep us posted.
In the meanwhile, something REALLY essential to be aware..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v63d8PsklN0&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v63d8PsklN0&feature=youtu.be)
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Mark, I'm having Hector build my last air rifle!
It's going to be the Diana 54 Air King like his in .20! I mentioned this some months ago while shooting his Diana 54 Air King .20 he used in competition. I didn't brag about it and in the meantime I was looking into the Blue Laminate 97K in .25 which went North to the HW80K .22.
So, not all would pay for it but I will and as far as I know I'm in line for this! I don't know how many he is going to make with the .20 barrels he has available as a last supply from somewhere.
I'll wait for it! In the mean I get to really hone up my off hand shooting with the HW80K. ;D
1st time I shot an AirKing, a factory .22, I stared at it after pulling the trigger.
Stared at it again after every subsequent shots.
Incredible rifle and accuracy!
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^ Most excellent post Marcos!
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Get a 22cal 54 air king and be done with it
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Or get an HW80K with a can! And forget it if you can! But the D54 Air King always fascinated me from the start. I like the recoiless design.
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I'm glad you liked Scott.
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Get a 22cal 54 air king and be done with it
If you want to spend the money I will second this post.
I have the 54 in .177 and it is unbelievably accurate . I have been able to shoot the spray nozzle of spray cans at 30yds with mine which is a TO1 that I bought used. As for power it will come close to shooting threw a 1/16" thick steel lawnmower engine shroud at 30yds with 8.66 gr pellets. Kind of wish it was .22 instead of .177 but then I have the 48 in .22 that will get the job done.
If I could have only one spring air rifle it would be the 54 in .22 cal.
But to each his own there are lots of choices and we are all different some like break barrels some like under levers and some like side levers. There's no doubt that a fixed barrel rifle of magnum power will for the most part is more accurate and easier to shoot accurately. JMO
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Sorry for the delay. I didn't want to answer OToH and I needed to look into some of my notebooks.
As a scientist, I keep notes. I have more than 20 years of notes, sometimes finding something takes time because the notes are not indexed, LOL!
Anyway, I'll try to answer everyone here with "@"
@ Eddie E.- The T06 triggers, though labelled the same are not the same. The NTec trigger is an interference trigger, the steel spring T06 is a hook trigger, so you cannot swap springs between NTec and steel spring rifles.
You can read about a conversion made from the steel spring D34 to a D340 "style" rifle here:
https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/converting-a-spring-powered-d34-into-an-n-tec-rifle (https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/converting-a-spring-powered-d34-into-an-n-tec-rifle)
It is an irreversible conversion. I have also converted AM03 to steel spring, but for other reasons (using an Anti Bounce Piston at 12 ft-lbs), and that is an easier conversion.
In a 460 or 350 (again, it's basically the same swept volume and spring size), you can use a Vortek PG-2 kit to generate about 18.5 ft-lbs with the 16 grains JSB. It is important to note that you cannot cut the spring in these kits because the pre-compression is only about 1/4" and with less pre-compression, you get piston bounce. Peak Cocking Force (PCF), should be in the 36 # region.
Do NOT try the PG3, it will possibly not latch, and if it does, it will inflict on the piston some severe torque.
Some years ago, a friend (and customer, though he is a better friend than customer, as he drives me nuts with his requests, LOL!) asked to prepare a 460 to shoot offhand with a "gentle, uniform, push". We ended up using a slim Vortek spring with no outside guide and cut the spring till the energy matched what he wanted. If you can cut, forge square, and grind the ends of springs, that is something you can try.
An interesting alternative is using a JM 640 T spring. It is a joy to cock at 25# PCF, and yields 13.3 ft-lbs.
While all numbers were obtained using my personal 460 with an HMO Piston, I have no doubt that the same results can be obtained in a 350. Perhaps a little less dramatic because the HMO Piston is a very efficient one, but close.
Gas rams, under their current architecture are not that efficient, even an NTec one is a little less efficient than the steel spring, in the sense that the energy you put in is not converted into Muzzle Energy at the pellet, therefore it has to go somewhere else.
Perhaps in the future we will use already available technology to make the gas springs more friendly, but in the meantime, we are still limited to what is on the shelves.
Here is a picture of the three powerplants:
(http://imageshack.com/a/img921/5663/SrCej0.jpg)
@ Yogi.- The 350 NTec is a bear to cock, it takes over 45# of PCF, and, to be quite frank, it gets old after a few shots. It's one of those "Dial it to 11" things that never should have happened. Even sadder is that we tarnished the Blaser brand with the effort.
The ASP 20 is not an airgun for airgunners, we've discussed that in the past:
https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/the-sig-sauer-asp20-a-powderburners-airgun (https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/the-sig-sauer-asp20-a-powderburners-airgun)
I have been working even more on the ASP20 and the deeper I dig the more I realize I was right from the beginning. It may be a good starting point for PB's, but it is a "dead end" in the sense that you cannot do anything to the gun. Not only are there no parts available, but the materials used seem to be not up to the standards expected.
It also exhibits a very interesting vibratory pattern, and interesting in this case means that you need to take good care of the scopes. Something that will be difficult with the Picatinny rail they decided to weld in there.
@Derrek.- Please read abovementioned Blog entry. IF after that, you still decide to try an ASP 20, I would love to know how you like it. Just be aware of the policy.
@ Justin.- Thanks for your kind words, I have been a professional gunsmith for over 7 years and have been tinkering with airguns for double that. Easiest thing to do is to ask Mr. Schmitz. Send him a PM through the forum, OR trouh EBay. Since the gun is offered on an "or best offer" base, it means that you can actually offer whatever you think is reasonable.
Be courteous, you are dealing with a brother airgunner.
@ Laid over.- Gas spring guns are under huge pre-loads, do NOT attempt to disassemble one without a robust, reliable and SAFE, spring compresssor!
The rest of comments on the 54.- While I am a fan of the 54, and have used it extensively in all kinds of endeavours in all three calibers (0.177", 0.20" and 0.22"), it is NOT a sporter rifle. And that is one thing that Justin seems to be fixated about.
Now that he has relaxed the money cap, it is an admissible option, but it is still more a target/sniper rifle than a sporting gun.
One detail that is often overlooked in gun's architecture is how the buttpads are designed to come into the shoulder. If you look at the buttpad of the 460, you will see a field gun pad that is designed to come up into the shoulder with ease and on the move, if need be.
Look at the buttpad of the 54 and you see a target gun pad, designed to come into the shoulder carefully, deliberately, and always in the same spot.
As a gunsmith I will respect what the shooter wants as much as possible.
it's up to Justin to decide what he wants to do.
Again, thanks to all for your continued good wishes. I had never taken a flu shot in my life, till four years ago (between the pregnancy of our first (boy) and the 2nd year of our second (girl), I've had four flu shots, and they seem to have messed with my own defenses, now I have none, LOL!
Anyway, getting better slowly. Again, thanks!
HM
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Thanks Hector I read it.
I don't do magnum springers anyway, but will think twice before recommending the ASP20.
-
Duplicate
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Get a smooth shooting hw95 (r9) or hw80 (r1) take it and run with it. Learn everything you can and remember every bit and Bob of your rifle. It only gets better from there. Takes less too keep up with a Springer than a dusty rimfire too begin with. Unless you want a underlever buy my 77. I love everything about it but can't pick it up over my simple break barrels . Also. If it's too late. The 350 is great but I gave mine too my 6'6 friend
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Hector, I did not see this until today. Thank you for promoting my listing! Much appreciated.
Unfortunately, the rifle sold today (although I still haven't received payment). I'd I don't get that in a day or two though the I will cancel the order and can sell to Justin if he likes.
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Hector, I did not see this until today. Thank you for promoting my listing! Much appreciated.
Unfortunately, the rifle sold today (although I still haven't received payment). I'd I don't get that in a day or two though the I will cancel the order and can sell to Justin if he likes.
MSchmitz,
I was waiting for yours to sell before mentioning it, but I also have a like new 350 Magnum T06 I am ready to sell.
Justin,
if you are decided on the 350 and the above is no longer available feel free to PM me. I was planning to list it in the next few weeks but could let it go sooner if you are interested. I could take some pics tomorrow.
Rich
PS. I plan to sell my Model 48 T06 as well.
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COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC!!!!
But important: It's nice to see people talking civilly to each other, being considerate of each other and, in general, just looking to do the right thing!
One of the reasons why I like airgunning. Thank you all for being you all! LOL!
May this new year of hindsight bring lots of good shots, some prosperity even in times of hardship, and much joy in the mutual friendship and company of family and friends.
HM
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One of the features that would be nice on this forum is the 'like' feature, as I would have used it on the last few posts.
Well, mine officially sold.
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One of the features that would be nice on this forum is the 'like' feature, as I would have used it on the last few posts.
Well, mine officially sold.
That would be an awesome addition to the forum
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"Copy" and "Paste" too tough for ya?
(https://img.freepik.com/free-vector/facebook-thumb-up-like-background-flat-style_23-2147819330.jpg?size=338&ext=jpg)
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Airgun forum U.K. has likes... Funny bunch of guys to boot!!! Hook up.
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Airgun forum U.K. has likes... Funny bunch of guys to boot!!! Hook up.
I like Brit humor too.
Got a coworker who is English--handsome woman and nice legs with fantastic accent to boot ;D..
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but what about..... oh... never mind.
#cheeky basta...
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but what about..... oh... never mind.
#cheeky basta...
Use your imagination, HD sir ;D..
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Just my 2¢... I have a 350 in 22. I got in a trade and was tuned by the previous owner. It's making over 25fpe last time I used it. I really haven't shot it much but it makes dimes at my 18 yard range off a bag.so that's what I'd put up as a magnum Springer.
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Sorry to keep the suspense going guys, I’m kinda impatient and there was a 350 mag locally that I could have this weekend lol. I paid more for it than I needed but I got to shoot while it is sooo nice outside so it was worth it.
Now on to the fun stuff! I am seriously impressed with this 350. You guys were right about it. A tad harsh in cocking effort but from my very limited air rifle experience it’s plenty accurate for my uses! 50 yards is stretching it a tad but it’s minute of squirrel at 25 for sure! I’m about 300 pellets in at this point. Since yesterday afternoon 😂 the gun seems to do its part though. The trigger 😍 gosh I did not expect that at all. It’s so much better than I remember on my old gun. There is a little twang when the shot breaks but my cats don’t even flinch. So that’s a plus! I have been shooting rws superdome and superpoint 14.5 gr pellets. Thanks to everybody who gave advice on here. It really means a lot to me and I think it prepared me for what I was getting myself into.
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The first photo was my 1st shots at 10 yards with open sights on the bottom dot, then the top dot was at 10 yards with a scope. Both off a rest. The next photo is a 25 yard group with scope off a rest. The next photo is a 50 yard scatter from a rest with scope 😂 in my defense the wind was whipping pretty good at that point. The last photo is an off hand group at 25 yards with scope. This gun definitely lets me know when I don’t do my part. But that’s okay! Practice practice practice! Lol
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Missed a pic
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Off to a good start with your 350! Congrats
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Glad you're digging your new gun.
If you have a Tractor Supply nearby, it might be worth picking up a tin of Crosman Premier Ultra Mags. They shot well in my 350.
Have fun!
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Nothing like fun!
If/when you try to disassemble the D350 (always with a spring compressor!), remember this:
- NEVER try to cock without the stock in place, because you will damage the OEM spring sleeve.
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You obviously got plenty of answers here but as some have stated springers dont come close to 22lr, and if you wanted to get max power from an air rifle pcp is where it's at.
With that said, I own a d460 that will easily dispatch any of those critters and I have it tuned to a smooth and accurate 20fpe. ANY of the recommendations you recieved here will work excellent.
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With that said, I own a d460 that will easily dispatch any of those critters and I have it tuned to a smooth and accurate 20fpe. ANY of the recommendations you recieved here will work excellent.
Josh, seeing this is your 4th post I commend you!
You will find a group here that recommends PCP and another that defends Springers.
It is a constant "bantering" back and forth. ;)
Personally I love both.... but pick my replies one way or the other.
When some one bashes Spingers, I can defend them... when someone calls out PCP's for thier high price, I can show it CAN be done on a budget.
Guess it is all what you want from the hobby.
Christ, I started out with a multi-pump! ;D :o ;)
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With that said, I own a d460 that will easily dispatch any of those critters and I have it tuned to a smooth and accurate 20fpe. ANY of the recommendations you recieved here will work excellent.
Josh, seeing this is your 4th post I commend you!
You will find a group here that recommends PCP and another that defends Springers.
It is a constant "bantering" back and forth. ;)
Personally I love both.... but pick my replies one way or the other.
When some one bashes Spingers, I can defend them... when someone calls out PCP's for thier high price, I can show it CAN be done on a budget.
Guess it is all what you want from the hobby.
Christ, I started out with a multi-pump! ;D :o ;)
I appreciate that Scott! Definitely agree way too easy now a days to get wrapped up in bigger badder better(which I'm guilty of as well) when we really need to ask ourselves which tool is the right one for the job.
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Whats the matter with a good multipump?
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The problem with multipump is after you've accustomed yourself to the one shot springer you hate having to recock and recock to get a plug of air sufficient to drive the pellet out the barrel! How many pumps could I handle with this attitude? Zero! I just want one snap of the barrel and another round on it's way.
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Whats the matter with a good multipump?
Not a GOSH DARN thing!
I was just mixing up the break-barrel / PCP choices.
;)
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The problem with multipump is after you've accustomed yourself to the one shot springer you hate having to recock and recock to get a plug of air sufficient to drive the pellet out the barrel! How many pumps could I handle with this attitude? Zero! I just want one snap of the barrel and another round on it's way.
I've got a Lpold VariXlll riding on a Diana 46. How is yours holding up and that HW80 hammer you got listed ?
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Clean the barrel, check the stock screws for tightness, same with scope ring screws, practice the artillery hold.
Some people never learn to shoot a magnum well. ;D
-Y
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Whats the matter with a good multipump?
ROFL!
Best animated .GIF I've seen so far.
Coming back to airguns, the BASIC difference is the one between HUNTER and SHOOTER.
;-)
Now, dig that one out . . .
HM
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The problem with multipump is after you've accustomed yourself to the one shot springer you hate having to recock and recock to get a plug of air sufficient to drive the pellet out the barrel! How many pumps could I handle with this attitude? Zero! I just want one snap of the barrel and another round on it's way.
I've got a Lpold VariXlll riding on a Diana 46. How is yours holding up and that HW80 hammer you got listed ?
Good question!
I'm shooting HN Target Long Range pellets which weigh 2 grains heavier than the Piranhas, and accuracy is even better! The problem I have with switching out the HN Sport rings they (AOA) gave with the HW 3-9X scope is whether I really need to. The scope, being Leupold mark this number that is of course more "shock proof" than an HW China scope, I would think, but for how long should I leave this mount before "saving the scope" forever in a Zero Recoil Mount?
What I really want to do is end up putting a Bushnell Elite 3200 type of scope on it and now they have Nitros and weird names there in Bushnell and I'm not sure any dial down to 10 yards like the Bushnell Trophy 4-12X I've got on my FWB Sport.
Recoil to me doesn't feel like it's there high enough to worry, but Hector's right about putting Zero Recoil Mounts on his air rifles. Even on his recoiless Diana 54 .20 had a Zero Recoil Mount to house a nice 4-12X Traditions scope which is now not made anymore.
How's it shooting? It just keeps getting better and I have to try it out somewhere else than here at 50 yards and beyond! The rifle looks evil and subversive like a special operations silent rifle!
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At the end of the day, I suppose I am a Diana guy...I have owned multiple 34's both in .177 and .22...I tend to favor .22 because I'm a hunter at heart...I also own a 48 in 22 and .177.They are TO 1 triggers...The .177 does very well with heavy for caliber pellets...I also own a 460 in .22. The Diana rifles are inherently diamonds in the rough..For the average person though, a Vortek tune will give you a fine hunting rifle...I always tell people to buy a Diana/ RWS 34 and a Vortek kit and they will be happy....Now I have a Benjamin Marauder in .25 that is boringly accurate....PCP is like that. I haven't shot it in two years...
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Oh yeah, I forgot the 350 in .22 that was the point here...It is one of my favorite rifles...I also have a B28 in .25 that is a short range hammer...They both have a learning curve to shoot well but it is easier with heavy pellets...
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I came across some 14.3grn crossman hollow point pellets and I’m not sure if my gun really dislikes the rws pellets or just really likes the crossmans. maybe I’m just getting used to the gun but whatever is going on I’m happy. My 50 yard groups have improved significantly! I am really enjoying this gun. $.014 per shot is pretty hard to beat for this much fun. I’m definitely addicted 😂
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I came across some 14.3grn crossman hollow point pellets and I’m not sure if my gun really dislikes the rws pellets or just really likes the crossmans. maybe I’m just getting used to the gun but whatever is going on I’m happy. My 50 yard groups have improved significantly! I am really enjoying this gun. $.014 per shot is pretty hard to beat for this much fun. I’m definitely addicted 😂
That is a very nice 50 yard group and you've proven to me your rifle is worthy of 50 yards!
That is the distance I consider "maximum range" for my more powerful springers. To get a group like that is my aim but shooting only off hand precludes me from impressive groups like that! I just keep shooting upright at 25-35 yards here in my backyard and when I can find a place to take my time I'll try the offhand shoot at 50 and report. But for now I need more practice. :D
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Ill throw one out there you cant get any more the old model Gamo extreme 1250 when they were made of wood and not plastic, and had a decent trigger that could be upgraded, they were hammers and very accurate. The old version is a different airgun than what they have now. David
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I came across some 14.3grn crossman hollow point pellets and I’m not sure if my gun really dislikes the rws pellets or just really likes the crossmans. maybe I’m just getting used to the gun but whatever is going on I’m happy. My 50 yard groups have improved significantly! I am really enjoying this gun. $.014 per shot is pretty hard to beat for this much fun. I’m definitely addicted 😂
Ahhhhhh. Interesting idea to lube the pellets with lip balm.
Need to test it sometime
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ROFL!
Good shooting, keep up the good work!
HM
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50 yards is hard for me period, let alone using a mag springer. That is good shooting.
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I came across some 14.3grn crossman hollow point pellets and I’m not sure if my gun really dislikes the rws pellets or just really likes the crossmans. maybe I’m just getting used to the gun but whatever is going on I’m happy. My 50 yard groups have improved significantly! I am really enjoying this gun. $.014 per shot is pretty hard to beat for this much fun. I’m definitely addicted 😂
That is nice shooting with a big springer at 50 yards.
The 350 is a great long distance gun. A buddy of mine hung some softballs in the trees well past 100 yards and the 350 would give them a shiver.
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;) My vote is for the Diana D460 .177 this is the second adult AG that I had purchased from Pyramyd Air ~ 7 years ago with the T06 trigger. It is a powerful and accurate springer. I have owned and sold several other "Magnum" springers over the past several years and this is my favorite springer of all that I presently own second is my Gamo Swarm .22 it is just plain old fun to shoot and descent accuracy as well.
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Hey why limit it to $500??? :-[
How about what is the best magnum springer over $500? Commercially available.
-Y
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Anyway, my vote goes to the Hatsan 135. Some have over sized barrels, but if you get a good one. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Plus, it is really the only magnum that can UMPH the .25 pellets downrange.
-Y
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;) For .25 and larger I prefer PCP rifles for the improved ballistics and greater muzzle energy. To my thinking .177 and .22 perform very well out of a springer and the .25 gets just a tad too loopy for my style of shooting.
As others have said shoot whatever puts the biggest grin on your face when you pick it up to shoot
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Hey why limit it to $500??? :-[
How about what is the best magnum springer over $500? Commercially available.
-Y
What is a "Magnum Springer"?
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Anyway, my vote goes to the Hatsan 135. Some have over sized barrels, but if you get a good one. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Plus, it is really the only magnum that can UMPH the .25 pellets downrange.
-Y
That's a great choice. I prefer the 125, and it is near equal to the 135.
The ones with the oversize bore might even through the 35 grain eunjin domes halfway decent. I had a walther talon mag that could shoot them decent after I put a fresh piston seal and shimmed the breech seal it pushed 34 fpe with them.
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I have one of those Hatsan .30 cannons. It's slow but packs a punch and is pretty accurate. 10¢ a shot adds up though.
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Thanks guys! It’s crazy but not one single other gun has left my safe since I got this 350. I didn’t realize how much I hate wearing ear plugs until I got the choice! The woods are so much more enjoyable without wearing muffs all the time 😂. What’s everyone shoot for reactive targets? Besides squirrels of course lol, my girlfriend refuses to eat tree rats so that means I have to cook 😳. I have ar500 steel targets for the bigger booms but they barely make a noise when I shoot them with the 350.
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Paint balls set on golf tees work well also a couple dozen eggs also make good reactive targets
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Oh that’s a great idea!! I have a couple cases from back in the day that are long past being shot out of a paintball gun. I was wondering what to do with them. Thank you! I’ll definitely have to try that out!
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Thanks guys! It’s crazy but not one single other gun has left my safe since I got this 350. I didn’t realize how much I hate wearing ear plugs until I got the choice! The woods are so much more enjoyable without wearing muffs all the time 😂. What’s everyone shoot for reactive targets? Besides squirrels of course lol, my girlfriend refuses to eat tree rats so that means I have to cook 😳. I have ar500 steel targets for the bigger booms but they barely make a noise when I shoot them with the 350.
It doesn't sound crazy to me- I haven't pulled a powderburner out of the safe in years, but I shoot airguns at least several times per week.
Fun, reactive targets include plastic golf balls (NEVER SHOOT REAL GOLF BALLS - DANGEROUS RICOCHETS,) chunks of sidewalk chalk, small fruits, dollar store toys...
Enjoy!
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Maybe some fun in teamwork with your girlfriend..?
youtube.com/watch?v=gWqVTfcCuzU
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To share with you a new Brazilian product to help shooting 'off hands'..
youtube.com/watch?v=s__cDdurB4E
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Thanks guys! It’s crazy but not one single other gun has left my safe since I got this 350. I didn’t realize how much I hate wearing ear plugs until I got the choice! The woods are so much more enjoyable without wearing muffs all the time 😂. What’s everyone shoot for reactive targets? Besides squirrels of course lol, my girlfriend refuses to eat tree rats so that means I have to cook 😳. I have ar500 steel targets for the bigger booms but they barely make a noise when I shoot them with the 350.
It doesn't sound crazy to me- I haven't pulled a powderburner out of the safe in years, but I shoot airguns at least several times per week.
Fun, reactive targets include plastic golf balls (NEVER SHOOT REAL GOLF BALLS - DANGEROUS RICOCHETS,) chunks of sidewalk chalk, small fruits, dollar store toys...
Enjoy!
How about empty spray can nozzles at 35 yds? Set up a few and try shooting the spray nozzle off the can with out hitting the can. Also a good way to evacuate the propellant before recycling the can.
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Of course I don't have a video of this but last summer I was out shooting my D34 .177, it was getting dark and my neighbor came out and challenged me to shoot the flame off a candle. I was shooting at 30 yds. Was feeling good that day so I went in and found a 10 " tall 3" x 3" candle and set it up.
one shot and it was out. Just below the top of the wick.
I haven't tried it again since. why ruin my perfect record?
I did have a witness and shooting the flame off a candle is pretty cool.
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When you run out of paint-balls to put on your golf T's...
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51gPYiQ8qLL._AC_SY400_ML2_.jpg)
1) these are cheaper
2) they are Bio-degradable
3) you can snack while you shoot.
4) they may attract other "targets" ;)
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If you have a black walnut tree near you they make awesome targets in the Fall. It's like golf balls hanging from a tree :)