GTA
Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: DrGunner on November 30, 2019, 01:39:09 PM
-
So, I have my Daystate Regal XL all set up and scoped. Last step- I am trying to make a choice between spending $350 on a small 90 CID carbon fiber tank that would be purchased locally from a paintball outfit that will fill it for free, as long as they’re in business, vs buying a compressor like a Venturi Nomad II. I’ve looked at the Yong Heng route, but I don’t want a system that requires that much hassle with setup and maintenance. Would the Nomad be more “plug and play”??? Is the moisture removal system it comes with adequate, or is more filtration recommended?
Are there other compressor options to look at in the same price range? Pyramyd has them on sale @ $699.
I’ll be filling my Daystate Regal XL’s 162cc tank directly from the compressor.
Also- I have a huge 220V 2-stage 80 gallon Black Max shop compressor. I’ve read that there are step up (Shoebox?) compressors that can run in series with my shop compressor?
As previously stated in other threads- I’m a PCP NOOB, so go gently but please educate me, this is the final link in the chain.
I’d like to hear from Nomad II & other compressor owners in particular.
I could see myself buying the tank now, and compressor later or vice-versa.
Suggestions & info, please-
DrGunner
-
If you are doing alot of shooting go with the shoebox set up. I keep a couple 80 scuba tanks and a pony bottle, for remote fills, topped off to fill guns from. I also have a 12 v portable compressor that stays in my truck for when ever I might need it.
-
If you are doing alot of shooting go with the shoebox set up. I keep a couple 80 scuba tanks and a pony bottle, for remote fills, topped off to fill guns from. I also have a 12 v portable compressor that stays in my truck for when ever I might need it.
Well, I’m not sure I would describe my air gun shooting as a “lot”. My main discipline is Rimfire silhouette, this set up is just for backyard practice, during which I will likely shoot 40 or 80 rounds once or twice a week.
Can you tell me more about the shoebox option?
Sources to buy one? Cost? Ease of setup? Required maintenance & gear?
Sorry- think of me as totally clueless when it comes to PCP air sources. I literally just bought my first PCP one month ago so I am very new to all of this.
-
If you get the shoebox you really should get a tank. The shoebox is slow but very reliable and is in fact my next purchase to fill my 66 CF scba used tank I bought off ebay. It passed hydro testing with 4 years left on it's life but by the time it can't be filled by a shop I will be filling it myself. It comes down to do you want to have to drive back and forth to the paint ball shop or be able to take care of it at home. For me to get my tank filled I have to drive almost an hour each way. Can't advise about the nomad as I've never had one. I use a yong hang copy called a vevor and it has been a pita but does fill my 191cc Liberty very fast. Bill, (can't remember his handle on the GTA) has one to fill his rifles and hasn't had any problems.
-
I may be wrong, ask my wife, but i believe the "step up" compressors need an oil less shop compressor so there is no chance of it getting into shoebox or rifle.
I would go with the tank and free refills for now, and if the time comes, you could sell the tank and buy a compressor.
AOA has a calculator that will tell you how many fills you'll get from your tank.
-
Based on what you asked and described, I'd say get the tank with the free fills - provided that the shop is close enough and open at convenient times for you to get the tank filled. And if you read between the lines of the other responses, you will see why: filling from a tank is much more convenient than filling from a compressor (not that a compressor is bad - it is just that the tank is better).
You can always add a compressor later, especially if the paint ball place goes out of business and you can no longer fill the tank there. The best set up for most of us shooters is a compressor and a smallish tank, but that is a lot of money to sink at once. You can kind of have that with just the tank right now.
I personally have a Shoebox compressor and a similar sized tank - the Joe B "Guppy" (I think it is 118 cubic inches) - and I typically refill mine every week or two. The Shoebox does require a shop compressor, but those are a wonderful tool to have on their own - I have had a shop compressor for decades and would never be without one.
-
If you fill the tank to 4500 psi, and fill your gun to the suggested 3300 psi.
And refill when you get to 1800 psi on the gun.
(You didn’t mention how low you shoot the gun to. )
Your tank will fill your gun to 3300psi.
7.5 times before you start getting partial fills.
After that, you will get some air, but not to the full 3300psi. So your shot count will not be as high.
http://www.calc.sikes.us/2/index.php (http://www.calc.sikes.us/2/index.php)
That being said, as often as you mention shooting the gun, and depending if the paintball shop is not too far, I would get the tank and go with the free fills.
That is until you realize exactly how accurate airguns can be compared to powder burners, and you become addicted.
Then you only have to get a compressor if you get into the hobby deeper.
If you don’t go any deeper into the hobby, the tank requires no maintenance, and is always ready to go shooting.
If you decide the hobby is not for you, the bottles retain their resale value well if they are within their life span, and in hydro.
-
here is something else to consider. i too have a Regal XL. i also have a 3000psi scuba tank i bought for $35 off craigslist. this year i bought a 4500psi scba tank and a stikboy. had i needed it, i would have bought a stikman, that allows you to cascade between tanks. shoot down to 1800 psi, fill with the scuba to 3000 psi and then top it off with the scba to 3300 psi. you won't have to fill the tanks as frequently.
-
All I have to say is.... there is nothing like air independence.
I have the Vevor.. I fill guns directly.. Not sure what hassle you are referring to..
Fill a 5 gallon bucket with water, plug in the pump and fill your guns til the cows come home. It takes around 30 seconds to top a gun off to 3k. That ain't even long enough to build any heat. The compressor is compact and easy to take on the road where ever there is a power supply. It will cost you less than $300. I will absolutely buy another when and if the time comes to replace it.
The hassle is self inflicted when you start asking the compressor to do things it wasn't meant to do.
Free tanks fills would be nice... as long as it's convenient. All tanks need periodic inspections.
-
+1 on avators post, plus if you go away and don't have a chance to get the whole Yong Heng, Vevor setup mobile with you, you also can use a pump to fill.
Of course only if it goes not over a certain PSi range and cc range of the air resevoir on the gun.
Dang avator, did you clean out you gun inventory that much, the last time i noticed you had listed much much more, than you have right now?
-
I have a large compressor and a 30 minute SCBA tank.
Once my SCBA is filled I can fire about 1000 rounds before refilling my SCBA.
So an SCBA filled to 4500 psi would last you a very long time.
I'd check a local fire station to see if you bought a bottle of they would refill it for you.
Not every fire station will fill an out of date bottle.
If you know someone there it may be an option to buy a $100 or less SCBA and a $100 or less fill station.
Or I would go for a compressor,Maybe the nomad 2.
I went with the Air Venturi 4500.It is pricey but I got it on a cyber monday pyramid air sale.
Pyramid air also offers a payment plan through Affirn which isnt a bad plan.
A $1400 compressor comes out to $125 a month for 12 months.
But you can fill any size bottle you like.
I'd rather a larger duty compressor than I need.
-
Also like to add for a few hundred if you bought a SCBA bottle with a few years left on the Hydro date and providing a fire station with fill it for you.
You dont have to worry about compressor failure or matience.
No hose to bust or Moisture or moisture traps.
Fire stations have breathing quality clean air.
-
I have 2 ShoeBoxes, 4 different bottles and a hand pump. Over kill I know. But it’s a deep rabbit hole! Started with the AV G6 hand pump to fill my Mrod. That lasted about 1 week. Cashed in a years supply of bottles and cans that I was saving to buy another gun. But bought a AV CF 90 cc tank instead. The tank worked great. But it was a pain to take the little guy in to get filled. Even though my work is in the same building as the fire department. I sold one of my quads and bought a Shoebox. That was perfect. Until I bought a bigbore rifle too. So I bought a 60 min Dragger CF tank off EBay for $100. I could fill this from the Shobox. The 60 min tank was too big to lug around. So I bought a 30 min CF Scott tank. It worked perfect. Light enough to lug around and it filled the bigbore(s) great. But I wanted a small CF tank to top off the bigbore while hunting. So I bought a 70 ci CF to carry in a backpack. SO, what is the best option? If I were just going to have one option for just filling one gun, I would buy a 30 min CF tank. Then save up and buy a compressor at your convenience. As for the second Shoebox, I just couldn’t resist the new faster F10 at $200 less then the MAXX was.
-
If you get the shoebox you really should get a tank. The shoebox is slow but very reliable and is in fact my next purchase to fill my 66 CF scba used tank I bought off ebay. It passed hydro testing with 4 years left on it's life but by the time it can't be filled by a shop I will be filling it myself. It comes down to do you want to have to drive back and forth to the paint ball shop or be able to take care of it at home. For me to get my tank filled I have to drive almost an hour each way. Can't advise about the nomad as I've never had one. I use a yong hang copy called a vevor and it has been a pita but does fill my 191cc Liberty very fast. Bill, (can't remember his handle on the GTA) has one to fill his rifles and hasn't had any problems.
Well, the paintball shop is a 20 minute drive away, and is somewhat on my way to work- I work in 2 different locations so it would mean a 10 minute detour- no biggie, except they’re not open on weekends. There’s another much bigger paintball outfit with obstacle course which is about 10-15 minutes in the other direction- less than 5 minutes from my kids school, which will fill for around $10, and they’re open 7 days/week.
My take-away from your post is that a tank should be part of the plan either way?
If that’s the case, I’ll probably just buy the tank w/free air first, and see how things go.
A really cool guy here on GTA, who was very kind and trusting actually lent me his tank for a few weeks. I’d guesstimate that I’d get about
6 or 7 fills of my Regal per tank fill.
DrGunner
-
I may be wrong, ask my wife, but i believe the "step up" compressors need an oil less shop compressor so there is no chance of it getting into shoebox or rifle.
I would go with the tank and free refills for now, and if the time comes, you could sell the tank and buy a compressor.
AOA has a calculator that will tell you how many fills you'll get from your tank.
If “Oil-Less” is the rule, then my shop compressor is out. Plus, it develops quite a bit of water condensation.
Thanks for the info, just the kind of no BS advice I’m looking for-
-
AlanMcD, 45Bravo, Wolverine-
I think Y’all have hit the nail on the head.
While my current plan is to keep everything in the backyard, mobility with a tank plus free air is a no brainer, with the shop being reasonably close to my home and only slightly off my path to work two days a week. I think I will start with that tank.
-
All I have to say is.... there is nothing like air independence.
I have the Vevor.. I fill guns directly.. Not sure what hassle you are referring to..
Fill a 5 gallon bucket with water, plug in the pump and fill your guns til the cows come home. It takes around 30 seconds to top a gun off to 3k. That ain't even long enough to build any heat. The compressor is compact and easy to take on the road where ever there is a power supply. It will cost you less than $300. I will absolutely buy another when and if the time comes to replace it.
The hassle is self inflicted when you start asking the compressor to do things it wasn't meant to do.
Free tanks fills would be nice... as long as it's convenient. All tanks need periodic inspections.
I have read quite a bit about the Yong Heng compressors, and that is where I was referring to potential hassles. It seems to me that people either get lucky and get one that runs just fine, or they get a lemon that seems to require a lot more time and maintenance to keep running smoothly. That’s why I was interested in the Nomad II as it seems to be a more solid set up, I was just inquiring as to whether the Nomad is more likely to be hassle free vs the much less expensive Yong Heng...?
-
I’d like you all to know that I sincerely appreciate all of the offered help and advice- but I think it’s important at this point to make my needs clear. I only bought this rifle for one purpose- backyard practice for rimfire silhouette.
I am primarily a powder shooter, and that is not likely to change with a PCP epiphany. I’ve been shooting airguns for 45 years, and I have been building and pillar bedding my own rimfire and centerfire rifles for over 20 years. I have built and still own guns that are capable of shooting better than 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups at 100 yards.
I came to GTA for help in buying a silhouette practice rifle for use in my backyard, which will literally only comprise perhaps 10% of my overall silhouette practice – all of which is towards proficiency in rimfire shooting where I compete.
I received excellent advice and guidance from the great folks here, and I’m now the proud owner of a Daystate Regal XL with a Mamba Lite 4-16x42 scope.
I simply need advice on the simplest, most efficient gear to purchase so I can fill this single .177 cal PCP rifle. I completely understand you all who have grown your collections and air sources to meet your growing needs- and I have the deepest respect for that type of love & devotion- I have 3 gun safes. 2 are filled with hardware, the third serves as an ammo locker. I get it- I’m already deeply invested in my favorite shooting gear. I have 3 RWS Diana Springers that I’ve owned since the 1980s, and still love em- just not for this niche in my shooting world.
So- with that in mind- I’m thinking I’ll go with the 90CID tank for now, and if I find myself running out of air too soon or too often, or tire of the hassle of getting my tank filled, then I will likely invest in a Nomad II.
To 45Bravo in particular and everyone else in general, my Regal XL came with a sticker on it which was Daystate’s recommended maximum
fill pressure, which is 210bar= 3040 PSI.
I shoot down to around 1800 without losing accuracy at 25 yards. I’ve also experimented with pellet weights, so far my rifle shoots best with 10.65 and 10.34gr pellets, but I have many other weights down to 7.0gr, and have found that switching to 9.3gr at around 2200psi and 8.3gr at 2000psi helps ameliorate vertical dispersion without opening the groups up laterally.
I have not filled it above the 210/3040 recommendation, even though the gauge goes much higher.
It did not make sense to me that they recommended filling to a pressure that barely scratches the bottom of the green section of the gauge, but I did not want to risk damaging anything, so I followed the manufacturer’s as well as the vendor Jim from PA&S’ recommendation.
Am I being overly cautious?
If 210/3040 is overly conservative, what pressure would y’all recommend?
Sorry if I seem snarky with this post, just want to help y’all help me.
DrGunner
-
45Bravo- Love the golf ball meme.
These are two of my all time favorites-
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q535/drkgavin/Avatars/3fade9ce5d6db076bb02166f9492ac33_zps2f8b4d49.jpg) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/drkgavin/media/Avatars/3fade9ce5d6db076bb02166f9492ac33_zps2f8b4d49.jpg.html)
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q535/drkgavin/Avatars/664476dd676a821c4c5d526a04d7ac1f_zps555f906c.jpg) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/drkgavin/media/Avatars/664476dd676a821c4c5d526a04d7ac1f_zps555f906c.jpg.html)
-
My Regal XL's box is stamped "maximum fill 220 bar" so I'm not sure what is going on there. I only fill it to 200 bar (3000psi). It doesn't change the peformance, only the shot count.
I think the XL HRs are a higher fill.
-
It seems you have a good handle on things.
A lot of the newcomers we get here have very little airgun experience other than springers bought from walmart, or airguns they had as kids..
And their firearm experience is sometimes limited to their favorite ruger 1022 for squirrel hunting, and their favorite remington model 700..
While you can tune an airgun to the fill pressure you want it to.
I have always found it best to determine where the RIFLE WANTS to be shot, and fill to that pressure.
By changing pellet weight to overcome the vertical stringing, you are ahead of a lot of shooters, as that is something that a lot of airgun enthusiast don't bother doing.
Since you are compensating for the pressure/velocity drop your rifle is apparently not regulated, by filling over where the valve works most efficiently, you get a partial valve lock, and the velocity actually drops because the air pressure in the tank closes the valve sooner than it does at a lower pressure.
MOST airgunners are seeking more power to compensate for the limited energy airguns develop compared to powder burners, often sacrificing accuracy in the process.
I used 3300 psi as a fill pressure as that is the "suggested" pressure, but in reality, it is almost always less than the rated fill pressure due to the valve lock I mentioned.
And once you drop below 1800 psi, as you have found out, your accuracy is gone..
There is a lot of very knowledgeable people here with a broad base of experiences, and are always willing to help.
Ian.
-
thanks, those little Vmax rounds are really great when applied to soft targets.
When I shot it, I was surprised at the amount of expansion in the short distance of a golf ball.
Normally a 5.56 just zips through with no expansion
We shot some vmax projectiles at open top gallon paint cans filled with water, there was an entry hole, but no exit hole.
All of the energy was transferred to the water in that short distance.
The benchrest keyboard is going to be shared with some friends.
I have been a competitive shooter since the mid 80's.
Don't matter what it was, if it had a trigger, I was there.
I even tried 3D archery competition for a couple of years, I missed the bang..
Ian
-
I own 5 scuba tanks and use to get free top offs until the hurricane came along and changed things. I bought the nomad ll and that has made a big difference. I don't have to look for fills, drag tanks around, and now own guns that fill over 3000 or 200 bar. It's ac/dc, comes with a carrying case, weighs about 20lbs, and can go anywhere with it. It has held up well to the Hercules(250bar) so far, I have the Ataman M2R coming and it fills to 300bar(4350psi). I paid $650 for it earlier this year and have no regrets buying it. Just another option to look at down the road, good luck. ;)
-
I think you would be hard pressed to find reports of premature failures of the Yong Heng class compressors from folks who ONLY filled guns directly.. Unless, of course, it was a faulty unit in the first place... and that is possible with anything we buy.
My opinion is in no way meant to judge or to disrespect folks who choose to use their equipment as they choose. It's yours, wash it as fast as you want.
I've got a year's service so far from my $220 Vevor and its running like the day I unboxed it. I also have 2 SCUBA tanks, 2 SCBA tanks and an MKII Airmax Extreme compressor for filling them that I rarely, if ever, use since I got the Vevor.
At the end of the day, I highly recommend that you go with your gut feelings and buy the setup you feel comfortable with. I'm just sharing my experience... which is what, I think, you asked for.
-
BTW.... I didn't reduce my arsenal... just my list... ;)
-
I wouldn't worry much about using your shop compressor. Yes Tom K. of Shoebox says oilless only. this is for liability reasons. However, with a proper filter, there is no problem what so ever. (Unless your compressor is on its last leg. )LOL! Remember, all Real Dive compressors are splash oiled. The filters take care of it. If they can produce breathable air, a simple PCP is a walk in the park!
I ran an original for over ten years ona 60 gal shop compressor Ingersoll Rand) with NO issues. I now run the F-10 with the same set up. No oil is introduced into the system other than the silicone oil shoe box uses, which kills any corrosion if any moisture is introduced. Again. Proper filters take care of it.
I simply wore out the originaloriginal. I shoot big bores and bill daily for the most part. And it is still rebuildable. Just wanted a faster fill, so went with the F-10.
-
45Bravo- thanks for yet more helpful info-
And you’re spot on, my Regal XL is not the Huma regulated variety. I’ve found it to be consistent enough through at least 35, if not 40 shots of each fill which turns out to be perfect as a silhouette match is 40 targets. Dropping pellet weight with pressure only made logical sense to me, something I’ve done in my reloading as well with powder charge and bullet weight.
And YES! Hornady SSTs w/ those little polymer tipped VMax bullets really perform!
I get excellent accuracy out of their Steel Match for the price, but when I want to really stretch it out I shoot Black Hills loads.
My distance/accuracy heavy barreled AR is a Core 15 VTP II 20” Stainless Match, topped with a Nikon M-223 4-16 SF 600BDC. It’s a great combo. I’ve often considered getting a CZ 527 Euro Varmint, varmint barreled bolt action .223 just for the fun of long range shooting.
MaraudingLizard- thanks for the vote of confidence on the Nomad II. I’ve watched plenty of videos, and if/when I get a compressor, it’s high on a short list.
Avator- I didn’t mean to outright PooPoo the Yong Heng. I’ve read some reviews that were none too complimentary- but here’s the thing- they all seem to be in the last 3 months or so, and seem to coincide with a rash of counterfeit YH units. Lots of problems, like piston rods made of pot metal that break & destroy the cylinder.
So I’ll ask- is there a reputable source for the real thing?
Is there any warranty to speak of?
How much do you use yours?
I’m all for saving money and I’m handy enough with tools & equipment. My problem is time. I own two businesses that I run solo, and have kids. I want something that works, with as little maintenance as possible- and in that light, am not averse to spending more to ensure maximum enjoyment with minimal work
KnifeMaker-
My shop compressor is a solid 220V, 80 gallon 2 stage beast. I can easily get a clean airline that’s never been used with oil or tools.
What do the shoeboxes cost?
What maintenance?
Setup/ancillary equipment?
What are it’s capabilities- advantages/disadvantages compared to a YH or Nomad?
I would only be filling the rifle and maybe a small tank.
To ALL- THANK YOU SO MUCH! As always, I’m learning a lot of useful info here, which is part of the fun for me-
DrGunner
-
Here’s a good question for y’all:
Is it possible to safely use a Yong Heng or Nomad II to top off a small tank, say like 90 CID if you do it in increments of say 200-300 PSI and allow it to cool down overnight between each run?
Or is that not advisable?
DrG
-
I can not speak to the yong heng, as I have not owned one.
But I have followed the threads here watching what the users have come up with to make them more reliable with what they have.
But it seems like a college level science project that went retail.
The same with the shoebox, I have owned one of those.
I have always looked at the shoe box as a high school science experiment.
The spring loaded inertia shutoff is ingenious, simple and does not rely on electronics.
It needs a compressor for an input, and filters on the output.
A lot of people run filters on both sides, input and output.
The shoebox runs for hours with no problems.
The life of a compressor is all about heat and lubrication.
The nomad2 is meant to work for short durations, and let it cool when the temp starts getting too high.
Pumping the small pony bottle in relays has been done by some owners.
The YH with its water cooling solves the problem some, but there is still the quality of the materials used in the build.
And needs filters on the output.
I was looking seriously at the nomad2, and the Hatsan spark as they seem to be the better of the small compressors.
Then I lucked into an Omega Supercharger at a deal I could not pass up.
It is what the nomad would be if the nomad was built to pump large tanks.
Self contained, water cooled, quiet, (about as loud as a dishwasher), has an automatic air/water separator built in, auto shut off, the ability to pump guns and tanks.
Plug the cord into the electricity, connect the tank or gun to the fill hose, set your max fill pressure, turn it on, and let it go to town.
The only downside is it weighs about 60 lbs.
But I don’t intend on carrying it.
Ian
-
the modern ShoeBox F-10 is faster than all the previous modes. I fill from 3500 to 4500 in a 1 hr cf tank in 1 hr and 10 minutes. It does have electronic shut-off unlike most of the previous models. There is no comparison between it and the low cost Chinese offerings. Everyone praises the Chines offerings and shy how much they love the. Between all the post of issues. Failed pistons,. valves, rods, Over heating, and stopping multiple times in a fill to cool down and many issues with d"Total Failure", and keep buying new parts. I have 134 hours on the SB and not one single issue. Perion!
However, If I were able to spend more, it would take a look at the compressor offered By Nick and Dyotat100 at NSA Airgun bullets. It s a true professional work horse. For less money, yet still a pro compressor, the Daystate 110 model at AOA is under 2 grand and will last a lifetime, as will the NSA offering
te SB is American made, quality materials, and backed by full support. the nomad has many failures already listed as well. Another lack luster Chinese may (Will fail) pop. But at least it does have support. "IF your are willing to pay the high shipping to have it shiping both ways for repair. GRRRRR!!!
Take a look at the Carrette as well at AirTanks for sale. (Joe Brancato)
KnifeMaker
-
I can not speak to the yong heng, as I have not owned one.
But I have followed the threads here watching what the users have come up with to make them more reliable with what they have.
But it seems like a college level science project that went retail.
Ian
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k528/keveri/Misc/Laughing-chimp-gif-animation.gif) (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/keveri/media/Misc/Laughing-chimp-gif-animation.gif.html)
Thanks- I just snorted coffee out my nose!
I’ve spent a good deal of time watching the various setup vids on YouTube, & often thought the same.
20 or 30 years ago when I had more time than money I’d have been all over a YH setup & probably would have gone whole hog on the bubba engineering and designed & built a YH with the coil from a college dorm fridge suspended in the cooling water tank, all self contained in custom boxes and likely mounted on a cart.
For my current purposes, I just don’t want to bother with making space and investing time in the setup/maintenance associated with the YH or Shoebox.
Call me lazy, but at this point in my life I just want plug and play.
I’m not trying to disparage the YH or those who are smarter/more ambitious than I & run them flawlessly- I’m not here to ruffle any feathers.
I’m going to go ahead & pick up the starter tank from Ninja Paintball and take it from there.
In the meantime, I’ll probably hit the yellow classifieds and see if I can’t pick up a more substantial unit like a Carette at a decent price.
The portability of the Nomad is a plus.
Question- what other compressors can y’all recommend in the $500-1000 range, that would be reliable?
Hope Y’all have a great Sunday!!!
DrGunner
-
KnifeMaker- I think we posted simultaneously, kinda ironic cuz I just mentioned looking for a used Carette in my last post. I’ve read many good things about them, but $1200 is just too far out of my price range, at least for now when I do not have a solid handle on what my air demands/usage will be. Maybe next summer I will find myself shooting the heck out of this thing and will end up there plus another gun safe, this one full of PCPs- you never know as I am OCD about rifles.
You mentioned one hour full-time for the Shoebox – does that mean that you’re running your shop compressor nonstop for one hour? If that’s the case it’s a complete non-starter.
My shop compressor is in my connected garage, just outside our kitchen. My Black Max is LOUD. If I try to run my shop compressor for more than 10 minutes, my wife would either refuse to cook or mount my head on a pike.
DrGunner
-
Not sure what your fill pressure is on your Regal. But if it’s over 2700/2900 make sure you get a tank with out a regulated 2900 fill output like a lot of the small tanks come with.
-
Why have'nt anyone mentioned a pneumatic booster and a pony bottle?
Use the clean compressed air to run the booster and supply the HP side at the same time.
Hey presto a pony bottle thats always full to the brim with clean dry air, and supply is limitless.
-
Kevin,
The shop compressor rarely runs when we run the Shoebox - these are rated to fill at a rate that uses 10 cubic feet of air per hour (my older Max model does about 6.5 CF per hour). Your beast of a compressor (with an 80 gallon tank, no less) might not even need to cycle at all in hour, if it were at full pressure at the start of the hour. And even it it comes on, it will be for a very short cycle as yours sounds like it probably puts out over 10 cubic feet per minute . . . and you won't run for an hour to fill the small tank your are thinking of getting anyways.
I run mine with a 15 gallon 125psi Craftsman oiless compressor that is in my garage (rated at ~5 CFM at 90 PSI), and plumbed into my work shop. I make a point of starting with it full and cooled down all the way (less moisture into my desiccant pre-Shoebox dryer that way) and it probably cycles for under a minute every 20-25 minutes or so.
My Shoebox is in the corner of my workshop, with an air hose hooked up and ready to go. To use it, I simply open the quarter turn valves on the shop compressor and into the Shoebox, and turn on both compressors. I hook up the tank and away it goes. Nothing else to do - simple. I have had my Shoebox for about 5 years and have put about 180 hours on it. I rebuilt the cylinders (aka replaced the o-rings) in it at the 160 hour point just because I wanted to, but it has needed no maintenance. I can fill tanks or guns with it, but prefer to have the tanks full and use those to fill the guns.
-
UPDATE-
I just bought a tank.
As discussed in a prior post, I hit the classifieds to look at prices for used compressors. In my searching I came across this tank on American Airguns Classifieds and felt like it was too good to pass up.
My original plan was to go for a 90 in.³ tank with fill regulator for $350 from a paintball outfit that would fill it for free. Instead, I bought this Air Venturi 45 ft.³ carbon fiber tank, for $250 with shipping. It was last inspected in 2018 so is good until 2023. There is another paintball outfit closer to me, a 10 minute drive with huge obstacle course that is open seven days a week and their tank fill fees run from $4- $10 per fill.
AoAs calculator says I should get 32 fills on my Daystate Regal.... so around 25-30 as there’s always some loss.
I think this will be a better way to start than a little tank that’s only good for 5-6 fills.
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q535/drkgavin/Daystate%20Regal/581A0E7F-1200-4994-A918-553D1836C219_zpsrefidorc.png) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/drkgavin/media/Daystate%20Regal/581A0E7F-1200-4994-A918-553D1836C219_zpsrefidorc.png.html)
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q535/drkgavin/Daystate%20Regal/1DEF92BD-9D3A-4AFA-B116-723F4FC37FC6_zpspsty3lqn.jpg) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/drkgavin/media/Daystate%20Regal/1DEF92BD-9D3A-4AFA-B116-723F4FC37FC6_zpspsty3lqn.jpg.html)
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q535/drkgavin/Daystate%20Regal/494FBF21-85F0-44C8-B777-E6A3FF4D0846_zpstijpuby9.png) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/drkgavin/media/Daystate%20Regal/494FBF21-85F0-44C8-B777-E6A3FF4D0846_zpstijpuby9.png.html)
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q535/drkgavin/Daystate%20Regal/1A5498AC-CD5F-489E-9485-7F09622BE67B_zpswbjtce0i.png) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/drkgavin/media/Daystate%20Regal/1A5498AC-CD5F-489E-9485-7F09622BE67B_zpswbjtce0i.png.html)
How did I do?
DrGunner
-
That will keep you shooting at a decent rate, and not too bulky or heavy to haul along for the refills, you did well ;)
-
Kevin,
The shop compressor rarely runs when we run the Shoebox - these are rated to fill at a rate that uses 10 cubic feet of air per hour (my older Max model does about 6.5 CF per hour). Your beast of a compressor (with an 80 gallon tank, no less) might not even need to cycle at all in hour, if it were at full pressure at the start of the hour. And even it it comes on, it will be for a very short cycle as yours sounds like it probably puts out over 10 cubic feet per minute . . . and you won't run for an hour to fill the small tank your are thinking of getting anyways.
I run mine with a 15 gallon 125psi Craftsman oiless compressor that is in my garage (rated at ~5 CFM at 90 PSI), and plumbed into my work shop. I make a point of starting with it full and cooled down all the way (less moisture into my desiccant pre-Shoebox dryer that way) and it probably cycles for under a minute every 20-25 minutes or so.
My Shoebox is in the corner of my workshop, with an air hose hooked up and ready to go. To use it, I simply open the quarter turn valves on the shop compressor and into the Shoebox, and turn on both compressors. I hook up the tank and away it goes. Nothing else to do - simple. I have had my Shoebox for about 5 years and have put about 180 hours on it. I rebuilt the cylinders (aka replaced the o-rings) in it at the 160 hour point just because I wanted to, but it has needed no maintenance. I can fill tanks or guns with it, but prefer to have the tanks full and use those to fill the guns.
Here’s my compressor-
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q535/drkgavin/Daystate%20Regal/B143C58B-19E2-42BC-8C6E-40976E9E58AB_zpscvl6bhsp.jpg) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/drkgavin/media/Daystate%20Regal/B143C58B-19E2-42BC-8C6E-40976E9E58AB_zpscvl6bhsp.jpg.html)
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q535/drkgavin/Daystate%20Regal/B029933F-EE64-4601-9302-71BAD7CBD7D6_zpsi5t5l5nl.jpg) (http://s1162.photobucket.com/user/drkgavin/media/Daystate%20Regal/B029933F-EE64-4601-9302-71BAD7CBD7D6_zpsi5t5l5nl.jpg.html)
So- Everyone- Given the fact that I have the Beast here, IF I FIND I WANT A COMPRESSOR,
would it make the most sense to buy a Shoebox now that I have a decent tank on the way?
To run the Shoebox, is it recommended to install water filtration on both the input and output of the Shoebox?
What would that setup cost- please break it down for me- cost of all components and estimate of replacement materials like filters or desiccant...?
DrGunner
-
Kevin,
You will find many people that seem to want to dry the air both before and after the Shoebox, but you only need to do one if done right - once the water vapor is removed form the air, it does not get back in anywhere else as the system is closed. Personally, I think it best to dry before the air enters the Shoebox, as the Shoebox is on the slow side and having a dryer on the output side means that we have to pressurize that much more air volume on each fill - making it even slower.
I have attached a post I made on my set up, in which I was discussing verifying that the system worked via an inspection of my tank. I probably spent under about $200 on the filters, regulators, and miscellaneous parts that you see in in it, but I did get a great deal on the Wilkerson air dryer from Zoro Tools at the time (I paid under $100 for it, with desiccant).
The one other thing I would add in your set up would be a decent hydrocarbon filter for another $50-75 bucks or so . . . .
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=139773.msg1407053#msg1407053 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=139773.msg1407053#msg1407053)
Also, here is a post all about water vapor in our compressed air:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=139845.msg1407834#msg1407834 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=139845.msg1407834#msg1407834)
-
I forgot to say - great job on the tank!
That is exactly what I did - I got a used 45 CF tank, and had it filled for a few years. As it approached its expiration, I bought the Shoebox to be able to continue to fill it, and after about another year or so I bought the Guppy tank as the perfect complement to a simple to use compressor.
-
Back_Roads - I appreciate the comment, it looked like a decent deal, $100 less than the 90Cu/inch one I was considering, and has literally 6 times the volume.
AlanMcD- thanks for the link and advice.
I’ve bookmarked that thread and saved it to a “PCP Stuff” file That I have been compiling for the last two months. As said, I will fill and shoot from this tank for now, and if I ever do decide to set up a compressor it will definitely be a Shoebox modeled very similar to your set up.
I really won’t know what my true usage & needs will be until next spring/summer, when the weather allows for consistent practice.
Thanks again to all who took the time to offer their advice & recommendations- your help is very much appreciated, even if yours was not the advice that I chose to follow. You all served to further my knowledge base and make informed decisions.
Hope y’all had a great Thanksgiving & weekend!
DrG
-
Congrats Kevin. You are ready to rock now.
-
Nice find on the tank setup! Nice compressor too, but it is not an oil-less compressor. I have an Ingersoll Rand compressor, but it too is not oil-less. I would be buying a small oil-less compressor if I bought a Shoebox. No chance of any oil getting into the tank or gun with that.
-
They do make high quality water/ oil separators for shop compressors. Paint shops use them to keep fish eyes etc from messing up the paint job.
-
Congrats Kevin. You are ready to rock now.
Nice find on the tank setup! Nice compressor too, but it is not an oil-less compressor. I have an Ingersoll Rand compressor, but it too is not oil-less. I would be buying a small oil-less compressor if I bought a Shoebox. No chance of any oil getting into the tank or gun with that.
Thanks guys-
I’ve looked at several Shoebox setups in the last 24 hours, and every single one of them was set up with a shop compressor like mine, only most were smaller. The most common solution is to filter the air between the two compressors.
At this point, I do not even know if I will ever need/buy a compressor. If I do, I will research things thoroughly at the time as the market may be different. For now, I have an air source that should be adequate to suit my needs at least for the short term without too much hassle, so I get to sit back and enjoy the rifle.
Regards,
DrGunner
-
They do make high quality water/ oil separators for shop compressors. Paint shops use them to keep fish eyes etc from messing up the paint job.
I have 2 of them- not pictured, but the separator installs down range of the manifold in the pic.
-
They do make high quality water/ oil separators for shop compressors. Paint shops use them to keep fish eyes etc from messing up the paint job.
Good point, and one that I missed.
-
Got my $250 Air Venturi 45cu/ft air tank complete with fill gauge & whip. It came with air, I don’t know how much; had to order a Foster plug to be able to read the pressure in it. Simple math says 32 fills of my RegalXL at 40 good shots per fill will give me around 1200 shots per fill, starting @ 4500 and filling down to 3000. I should be good for a while, I have 2 paintball outfits and 1 scuba shop, all within 15 minute drive that all fill for $4-$8...
;)
DrGunner
-
just curious, is your Regal .22 or .177? i have a .22, and looking at a .177.
-
just curious, is your Regal .22 or .177? i have a .22, and looking at a .177.
Mines a .177. Any .22 air rifle in Illinois is considered a “firearm”.
Didn’t want to risk the laws...
It’s got plenty of power for my purposes
-
DR just a comment. I shoot a Regal XL. I was using it in Field Target. I needed a few more shots than I got when filling to 220 bar. so I would try creeping just above that pressure. What I found is I would shoot low until my pressure got down to the 220 then my point of aim would return to normal. In short the hammer has to overcome the air pressure changing the amount of open and changing the dwell time. There is a circle on your rifle receiver telling the optimum pressure. It is the PSI to use.
If you knew all of this sorry. Just thought I would share
-
DR just a comment. I shoot a Regal XL. I was using it in Field Target. I needed a few more shots than I got when filling to 220 bar. so I would try creeping just above that pressure. What I found is I would shoot low until my pressure got down to the 220 then my point of aim would return to normal. In short the hammer has to overcome the air pressure changing the amount of open and changing the dwell time. There is a circle on your rifle receiver telling the optimum pressure. It is the PSI to use.
If you knew all of this sorry. Just thought I would share
Thanks for sharing. Mine says 210 Bar= 3040psi. I have not filled it above that, and don’t plan on doing so. Now that I have a decent air tank, topping off the rifle is easy-peasy!
DrGunner