GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: WHITEFANG on November 25, 2019, 10:35:54 AM
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There is to much to post on my conversion and work performed on my new Condor. I stiffened up the frame and made some other changes that so far in testing has improved the gun. Some mods are gathered from here and other sites. The rest is of my choice.
The stock is from Choate Machine, an SKS stock. Fully bedded, Extra barrel bushings, Tactical upper scope rail and not yet installed another tactical rail for the upper barrel frame.
TT Moderator, TT heavy hammer spring and trigger spring. TT aluminum sliding breech block. 90 duo breech o rings. R&L 24" Hand picked .25 LW BARREL. Brass o ring bushing with a total of 4 barrel bushings. Bushing have 2 outer and 2 inter orings. The 4 bushing is from an AF sound system having 1 inter and 1 outer O ring.
The gun is using the power wheel set at 0 and has surpassed the power level from the factory spring set at 8. Ring loc orifice set up and as of now the largest size in the kit.
Plans are to lower the power with the ring loc selection being I can not lower the power wheel w/o cutting a coil on the hammer spring. Much custom stock work using ever thing that came with the stock. Cheek rest made into the extra forearm. ADJ but pad
The gun is accurate with this setup.
ALL the rest you will have to go to my forum and read as the project developed and see the pictures.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/junkyardairguns/af-condor-back-on-the-bench-t3156.html (https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/junkyardairguns/af-condor-back-on-the-bench-t3156.html)
THANKS
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Very nice work on that custom Condor!
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Impressive!! That stock fits like a glove.
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I've never cared for the looks of AF guns, but that looks great!
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Thanks! I like the AF but even more with this conversion.
Not my first conversion but really my 1St real AF one. Its a winner in my eyes.
Thanks again💀
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Looking good
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Beautiful work, quite ingenious. How did you discover that stock might fit? Quite an imaginative eye, looks like that stock grew there!
Cheers,
M
PS. now if you could just edit out the shadow of your hands taking the pic.... ;D Being a former professional photographer (back when film was used) I catch those sort of things. (but in a friendly, well meaning kind of way)
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Just have to think out of the box. Been friends with the Choates since the 70's.
I was around them when the father started making stocks. Being local its easy for me to be able to go through their stock of stocks.
But I have used other brands if Ruger 10/22 stocks on Evanex Rainstorms and Marauders.
Been working stocks for years.
Yes the shadow was they. Lol hows this?💀
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HA, Beautifully cropped. :)
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Just have to think out of the box. Been friends with the Choates since the 70's.
I was around them when the father started making stocks. Being local its easy for me to be able to go through their stock of stocks.
But I have used other brands if Ruger 10/22 stocks on Evanex Rainstorms and Marauders.
Been working stocks for years.
Yes the shadow was they. Lol hows this?💀
Will they offer a Condor stock?
If so, at what cost?
Hunter
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Mad Dog offers them $217-327 and all depends on what bells and whistles you want.
Much more than my investment.
Rail came in and this thing should be stiff.
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WF
Question for you, what purpose does the comb serve attached to the bottom of the stock?
I love Choate stocks, but "Dang", they are heavy, have one on my PCSO/NDOC, M-70 30/06 sniper rifle (retired)............. ;)
Tia,
Don
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Cosmetic but to bag or free hand.
Covers the SKS mag and action area. Did not totally fill the depth. I've got a plate in that areas and bedded on top.
Bedded under it but front stk attachment under it.
This stk had not got aluminum bedding. Much lighter than other Choate Tactical stocks. Really like a Roger 10/22 Aftermarket tactical weight. Not much stock on and SKS in wood.
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WF
Thanks for the info............. ;)
Tia,
Don
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Fang, what is the purpose of the upper rail in front of the scope rail?....
Bob
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More stiffness. May be an overkill. Lower rail bedded and encapsulated so now the upper is.
Weight is not a factor at this point .
You know more about things than I👍🏻💀
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I have only recently acquired my first Condor.... It seems to me that the chassis tube is strong like truck, since it is all machined from a single extrusion.... I suppose the port for the power wheel might allow a small amount of sideways flex, because the scope rail ends at the front of it.... but all of the vertical height is intact (so the strength/stiffness should be too).... I have heard about Condor "flex", and how the guns can be improved by a rigid stock, but my thought is that would be sideways, if anything.... I'm probably wrong in my assessment.... ::)
Bob
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Well sir? Having had the talon ss and converted it to all the condor parts I never had an issue in a great power house accurate gun.
Sold it and bought the lastest Condor in a .22. Along with it I purchased. The 24" .20 LW barrel.
Sold my raw .20 and swapped out the .22 for the .20.
In .20 the condor was a beast. Accuracy was as good as the RAW. NOW I have had several Raw guns in many calibers.
AF is no RAW‼ But again this gun shot lights out even with some modded dress. Forearm was crowding the tube. No issues.
Swapped to the .25. Bad barrel first off which made for a bad start. New barrel and all changed. The gun became hold sensitive . Accuracy. Was a hit and a miss. Pellets changes were another hit and miss. Changed the forearm back to the factory one and the accuracy came.
After all the research the flexing issue mad sense. The new Condor had more power than the older converter Talon . It just seemed to me after having the gun in .20 and easy 75 to 100 yard shots something had changed. The only change was the power wheel setting and the .25 barrel. The new .25 barrel is good. The 1 St barrel was inspected and found to be as I had indicated.
So all I have tried to do is firm up the frame. Added the TT heavy hammer spring which aided in no power cranking and gave more preload.
Ring loc was changed from a smaller size from my .20 choice back to the largest in the ring loc kit.
The stock made for me a much better. Feel. Only short range testing is great. Power level great.
As I have posted I may have done an?overkill. The guns that make it to my front porch with an easy 100 yard shot makes the gun prove the results of good or bad.
This is a bag or benched gun.
Time will tell but this cold weather IMO is not the best testing temps for any pcp.
Many know of my playing with many spring and PCP guns. Many own my guns that I have sold .
With AF being a brand for years I stayed away from here I am now. I like the simple build. Pretty. Straight Forwards but by design I see the double recoil with the hammer forwards and the valve rearward.
The frame being AC aluminum is a plus but aluminum has more flex. All only my opinions .
I'm here fishing. Lol Thanks GTA💀
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Finished for now. A cannon. Made it to the front porch and stretched out 50 + yards. Big power and accurate. Set up shooting the 43 gr for now. Great project with great results. As WITH POWER COMES LOW SHOT COUNT. I'll be LOWERING the power later for the 32-35 gr pellets. For now it's ball to the wall.💀
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I have only recently acquired my first Condor.... It seems to me that the chassis tube is strong like truck, since it is all machined from a single extrusion.... I suppose the port for the power wheel might allow a small amount of sideways flex, because the scope rail ends at the front of it.... but all of the vertical height is intact (so the strength/stiffness should be too).... I have heard about Condor "flex", and how the guns can be improved by a rigid stock, but my thought is that would be sideways, if anything.... I'm probably wrong in my assessment.... ::)
Bob
I thought the flex was an overblown issue before I got my Condor. I believe it is real now. The issue is you need to stabilize the tank somehow. You can change the poi even at close range by changing your cheek pressure. The Mad Dog stock didn't change that until I secured the tank to it.
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I have only recently acquired my first Condor.... It seems to me that the chassis tube is strong like truck, since it is all machined from a single extrusion.... I suppose the port for the power wheel might allow a small amount of sideways flex, because the scope rail ends at the front of it.... but all of the vertical height is intact (so the strength/stiffness should be too).... I have heard about Condor "flex", and how the guns can be improved by a rigid stock, but my thought is that would be sideways, if anything.... I'm probably wrong in my assessment.... ::)
Bob
I thought the flex was an overblown issue before I got my Condor. I believe it is real now. The issue is you need to stabilize the tank somehow. You can change the poi even at close range by changing your cheek pressure. The Mad Dog stock didn't change that until I secured the tank to it.
I wonder if the mircolite bullpup configuration, by placing the tank back 5" handles the flex, as I'm not experiencing it in my talonp even at 72fpe.
Its essentially stretching the frame, maybe acting as a damper somehow.
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Good point? I first thought the floating bottle was good and did develop. The resonance after the stock and TT spring.
The grip wrap on the rear bottle did dampen the sound.
The bottle does move by hand and I guess with a heavy cheek weld would change the poi.
My set up IMO much more solid than a MD but I have ni MD TO compare. You?may have a good point in the bottle and when the resonance. Developed I thought about a slight bumper to not only dampen but stable the bottle.
My set up with different butt pad being adj and positioned higher IMO gives a better eye to scope vs the factory butt and has a lighter cheek weld by design.
My set up could use a cheek rest similar to the Texan and still not touch bottle at all.
Again I have no?MD to compare. All just a project and many out there know more about the AF guns than me. 💀
Everyone gets different results and all?have opinions .
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After an inspection of the bottle topic?
My bottle. Being free floating there is easy movement with slight pressure.
Being the bottle attachment is at the weak point I think some attention my be needed.
I feel no flex really at the attachment but there has to be disadvantage with this.
Frame is bedded at the rear up to the Wokguard. Also using the grip attachment for the rear stock attachment. The front of the Wokguard is bedded with the bedding channeled to the front if the stock.
I see no advantage now with the bottle. Floating. This is a valid point that has been brought up. IMO Now for a fix.
Should be an easy fix but I have looked the issue over. My only concerns are now with the bottle stable is not putting the bottle attachment in a bind.
I guess once secure ant my stock in place the frame will flex at the attachment point of frame to bottle. But once secured with little Pressure the poi should not move?
Interesting point‼ Now I am wondering if when the hammer sets the valve off with the double recoil, if the floating bottle is not another disadvantage on sensitive of the gun at a point?
This may be just an over thought? ☠
I'll be looking into this more today .
Thanks for the share.💀
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the easiest way I know is to mount the factory butt plate to the butt of your stock. That is what I have done so far. Day to day poi is much more consistent now. I am going to work up a range card and take it to a few field target matches and see how my percentage score compares to normal.
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Im way past the factory butt plate at this point. In my case I want no butt shot reaction on the tank. I want all action on the stock .
It will not take much to stable the bottle.
2 points to work, bottle neck at he frame
And the rear of the bottle in my case.
Shame that I could have worked the neck area when bedding. 💀
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Yesterday I looked the issue mentioned in the free floating bottle movement?
Indeed mine has much easy movement.
My frame is rock solid now but as pushed lightly the bottle move and that movement does change your eye alignment To the scope. I saw little to no rear attachment frame movement.
I removed my stock and checked my bedding for fit again using play doh. The bedding is contacting the full bedded. On my bedding of this SKS stock. I bedded making a channel to rid the chance of any side play.
Addressing the bottle side play and an up and down I went after this.
Now first off im hoping someone will chime in more on the bottle needing to free float or not? I never really paid attention to this in the factory configuration.
Note that AF Has had this design and used the bottle for the butt pads attachment so it is hard for me to really say yes or no on eliminating the movement?
But I have addressed mine for good or bad. 2 rubber like bumper blocks were made to fit the upper and lower v area at the bottle attachment area for up and down help. With the stock removed I made 2 saddles out of pvc. Flattened. The lower for attachment to my stock . Epoxied and fastened the saddles to the stock locked them close to the front and rear for holding the bottle. I left room for bedding of the bottle to pad the saddles.
This ended up a real task getting the padding to not allow side play. Several removing the stock to get no movement changing the thickness of the bedding?
The saddles could have been made taller to saddle The bottle?
In the end I used double sided tape on top of the bedding to rid the side play. A redo might be coming after testing the poi and affect of the ridding. Bottle movement.
I'm enjoying the experiment on this build but really not sure if I am fixing an issue or creating one.
The stock conversion I am sure that it has helped more than stiffness. 💀
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If you look at the bench rest stock that Mad Dog sells for the AirForce guns, he asks to specify if you want the bottle secured or not. Obviously more than 1 person thinks it is an issue.
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Confronting to know‼ Odd all the findings on the AF guns.
Makes me feel better.
Seems if this was an issue the Texan would be one gun that would have more issues than any.
Well mine has many changes and the bottle is not moving.
Im thinking NOW about loosing the bottle grub to let the bottle if binding to relax and then set the grub?💀
Thanks for the insurance info‼👍🏻