GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Big Bore AirGun Gate => Topic started by: Jdobber on November 09, 2019, 06:13:40 PM
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I am looking for some advise on my Texan SS 457. I have been shooting this for close to a year trying every bullet type available, finding one that shot better than the rest but still not great. Then it was on to pressure and hammer adjustments with little of any improvement in accuracy. I was not aware of the leading issues with big bores until recently as cleaning had become near impossible to get a clean patch. I was finally able to get the lead cleaned from the barrel which uncovered rust, and pitting. I have never had an issue with rust before this in air or powder barrels, this was a disappointing discovery to say the least. Is this something that will need to be replaced?
Thanks,
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Make a lead lap and use that Wheeler lapping compound paste from Midway. I would forego the 240 grit. See if that will work the pits. To finish I make a new lead lap and polish with Red Rouge. That will reduce the leading about as much as possible for a while but you still have to scrub the often.
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I will definitely pick up the lapping supplies, thanks.
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Making a lead lap the first time is not as easy as it sounds and I would use something OTHER than your Texan barrel to practice on...I've "lapped" LOTS of PB barrels from new "cheapos, rough as a cobb to new, not the highest priced but relatively expensive high end barrels, to old military and old "shot-out" guns picked up on the "economy racks". ALSO I WOULDN'T use anything more nasty than about 600 grit, and then ONLY for the initial few passes.
Today I wouldn't bother "lapping"for MANY reasons...I've read several article in PG mags written by knowledgeable writers and "practiced on" and measured the amount of metal removal on a few military barrels that were REALLY BAD...BUT I shot them BEFORE AND AFTER to see any improvement or not...MOST of the time there was minimal improvement or just plain "worst came to even worst".
But I DO use J-B, Flitz and Isso pastes quite often to clean out the garbage...and "lead removing products" for initial cleaning.
REMEMBER...LAPPING is a wearing process...you are basically wearing out your WHOLE barrel worrying about a few rust or pitted spots.
Lapping WILL "level out" the high spots as ALL barrels have high/low spots even those made by hammer forging or button rifling...IF DONE RIGHT...but that takes a LOT of work and learning.
"Lapping " is relatively new to this genre and is more an online catch phrase than anything else EXCEPT to those in the know.
Rust can be removed with several cleaning products and unless the pitting is DEEP...it just fills up...but it DOES provide a point for more lead to build up on top of the initial lead build-up so you will need to "get the lead out" more often.
The cast lead bullets available from various sources are far from being highly uniform, which makes for inaccuracies...and AG's are beset by MORE variables than are present in PG's and that long barreled Texan also has many inherent accuracy difficulties that need to be address before you obtain whatever accuracy you are seeking.
Start with thinking the AG is a system and EACH part of the system must be addressed as well as the WHOLE and resolved before going onto the next part. It can be time consuming unless you get real lucky at the first go round.
If the barrel is REALLY narly and messed up then swap in a NEW, aftermarket and NOT an AF barrel as going with an AF barrel might put you back into the same mess...you have NO IDEA how long the replacement barrel has been sitting on the shelf OR HOW it was stored...and use the OEM barrel for "lapping practice".
Good Luck
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Thank you, the more I have been researching the lapping process the more I feel this needs to be done by someone with much more experience than myself. The replacement option is a little daunting as well, I have yet to see any mention of Texan SS 457 barrels for sale. Would you have any suggestions as to an aftermarket manufacturer? I have learned my lesson as far as cleaning the leading on this gun, often and thoroughly are now going to be practiced. I have seen mention of oiling the slugs with silicone oil as well, is this something that will reduce the lead build up?
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Can you use a light at one end and take a picture that shows how bad the pitting is and post it?
Anything that you can do to soften the edges of the pits will help. The excessive fouling will be reduced, might even be eliminated.
I'm of the opinion is with the exception of your warranty, what do you have to lose?
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A pic will help or buy one of the Lyman bore scopes...they are relatively cheap and very useful...I've been using mine often since I bought it.
A barrel is a barrel is a barrel...doesn't matter whether it is AG or PG...BUT THEN you need a machinist unless the barrel maker/seller can/will do the work.
There are MANY barrel producers online...let your fingers do the walking...just ask if and the cost to duplicate your OEM barrel. ANYONE WITH A CNC lathe or a decent manual can probably do the work but...IF IT WERE ME I would inquire here on GTA...LOTTSA good Ag-smiths available here that already know the AF configs.
There are also a few places that will hotten-up your Texan and add a better barrel...take a look at those sites...plus you will get an idea just what the cost will be...MANY ways to skin this furry thing.
Pretty much anything that has been made, CAN be duplicated...whether you want to pay the freight is quite another subject...stepping outside OEM goes after your purse BIG TIME and LOTTSA folks look at barrel swapping until they see what it REALLY COSTS...sometime it's cheaper just to buy another gun or just live with it unless you can do most/all the work yourself.
OILING?? with silly-cones...some swear by it , some swear at it, some think it's a bunch of horse pucky...the ONLY WAY TO KNOW for certain if it is useful or useless is to test it in YOUR gun with a variety of pellets WITH a control group of UNOILED pellets of the same kind...then compare....BESIDES you probably need a very accurate gun FIRST WITH a very smooth barrel bore to see any meaningful data, I'm guessing.
I've read some bits and pieces on this subject but have yet to see an test data so I won't comment...honky, horse krap rumors get started too easily on forums then are repeated ad naseum, ad infinitum...again do the research, the information is out there but you have to dig to get it.
Good Luck
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I spent yesterday afternoon cleaning out the rust and polishing with rust removing cleanser. I reassembled it tonight and hope to try testing tomorrow afternoon weather permitting. I appreciate the help and will be looking for a replacement barrel and machinist.
Thank you
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We’re you able to test the barrel?
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You must be freezing your tukaz off out there in Oshkosh right about now!!!!!
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I 'm right across Lake Winnebago from Jdobber TG it is a dry cold sometimes ::)
Not sure if JD bought the gun new, but Air Force has a great warranty, it may well cover that.
I have owned an AF Escape UL for many years, within the first year I had an air gauge fail, I had not sent in the warranty card as of that time, but the nice lady @ AF took care of that and sent me a new gauge free of charge.
I'm not sure if these people can help you out with aftermarket AF barrels, but this is where I got my .22 1- 14 twist un choked .22 slug barrel from. wouldnt hurt to call and ask.
https://www.rlairgunsupply.com/index.php?p=home (https://www.rlairgunsupply.com/index.php?p=home)
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You can get a very good results by fire lapping the bore.
Use hard cast bullets and apply the compound to the bullets and shoot 5-20 per grit. Cleaning between 5 shots.
Barrel won't lead too much after that, we have barrels that can be shot many hundreds of rounds between cleaning.
Marko
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I finally got out to test last night, the first half dozen shots were terrible but then it focused in and shot great. It was cold but the wind was down and the snow kept the crowds home. I pulled a few patches through after and was happy to not have lead shavings, normally the first few passes would have been full of pieces and shavings. I only had time to shoot at 50 last night hoping to get out again at 100 soon. 1" groups at 50 were a welcome surprise, and made me feel a lot better about the barrel.