GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Nomadic Pirate on November 07, 2019, 10:52:35 PM
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I'm very close to be able to change my airgunning direction.
Most likely I will go for a Sumatra Carbine .25 and a Sumatra 500cc .25
both tuned by Will Piatt and with one Neil Clague LDC to share should come out in the 1500+ Bucks range
But I still have the Edgun RM5 long .25 in my mind ( just can't get rid of it ;D ;D ;D )
at $ 1.875 will be a one gun vs two, but it's soooo appealing ;D ;D ;D
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Goodluck.
I'm too indecisive to make any decisions.
I thought had my mind made up on a Sumatra 2500 500cc
Then the Condor
Then the bulldog
Today I watch some of Matt Dubers vids and what his FX Crown is doing is amazing
The Crown VP is $1400 and seems to be what airgunners dreams are made of.
Keep us posted.
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Manny, tough decision! Can’t go wrong with the two Sumatra’s....but, I have handled the Edgun Long and boy is that one sweet gun! The Edgun is built so solid and as you know very easy maintenance....I’d go Edgun if it were me! Have you thought about a JSAR Raptor Mini in .25 @ $1300 with TJ slug/pellet barrel upgrade similar to a WARP?
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That's a tough call, bruddah...but I think I'd lean towards the two Sumatras. Or...I'd try to save a little more cash and then get a Carbine and the RM5. ;D
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Manny, tough decision! Can’t go wrong with the two Sumatra’s....but, I have handled the Edgun Long and boy is that one sweet gun! The Edgun is built so solid and as you know very easy maintenance....I’d go Edgun if it were me! Have you thought about a JSAR Raptor Mini in .25 @ $1300 with TJ slug/pellet barrel upgrade similar to a WARP?
Yeah that Edgun Long is a dream gun hard not to go that way, also really like tough, reliable, easy to work on guns :)
Raptor ?...sorry can't stand the looks of that gun, I don't care how good it is I will never have one in my house :)
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That's a tough call, bruddah...but I think I'd lean towards the two Sumatras. Or...I'd try to save a little more cash and then get a Carbine and the RM5. ;D
After I saw the post of your 100 FPE for a full mag Sumatra 500cc my mouth was really salivating :) :)
I will go for only one platform/brand like I'm doing now, I don't mix airguns.
If I go Edgun I would plan to try get a .30 Extra long down the line
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;D yeah, I really don't know why I waited so long to get one of these. One of the next rifles on the list is a Carbine...and of course I'll send it off to Mr. Piatt for some magic.
I'm even eyeing the Eagle Claw.
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One other gun might make it into the mix :
The Taipan .25,....but I would have to send it to a tuner to power it up to 60 FPE and shortening the trigger linkage so I could make it into a Mini-Carbine
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hmm...that's supposed to be another accurate and reliable gun. I was contemplating one, but the lever orientation nixed it for me. I prefer a forward side lever.
For me, it's a Huben that's been floating in my mind. And maybe one of those AEA guns. ;D
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I'm very close to be able to change my airgunning direction.
Most likely I will go for a Sumatra Carbine .25 and a Sumatra 500cc .25
both tuned by Will Piatt and with one Neil Clague LDC to share should come out in the 1500+ Bucks range
But I still have the Edgun RM5 long .25 in my mind ( just can't get rid of it ;D ;D ;D )
at $ 1.875 will be a one gun vs two, but it's soooo appealing ;D ;D ;D
As much as I love bullpups and tactical based gun designs, there is something about the look of the Sumatra that keeps them on my want to own one list.
If you get the Edgun or the Taipan, that inside traditional style rifle desire will not go away.
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I can’t believe what’s happening here . I hope whatever you chose makes for great hunting stories . I would go for the .............. man that’s a tough call????
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I would go as far as to say that if I had gotten my hands on the Sumatra a long time ago that I wouldn't own 75% or more of the other guns I have now.
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I tried not to like the Sumatra rifles because of the dual tube design (as Manny knows you like what you like) but now that I own a Sumatra Carbine in .25 cal, it has begrudgingly become one of my favorite hunting rifles. Build like a tank, light weight, accurate and configurable, and just feels good in the hands in the woods. Perfect, no, but then neither is my Airforce Condor which I do dearly love. I wish the Sumatra Carbine had a shrouded barrel, a single larger tube, and a Weaver rail... lol, all atributes of the Eagle Claw Carbine which I am keeping an eye on.
Good luck with your choices Manny!!
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You guys are all so right,....that's why the Sumatras are way up there on the percentage,.....I would say 90% Sumatra and 10% Edgun if I had to break it down.
but that 10% still naggin ;D ;D ;D ;D
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The thing about those Sumatras is they are truly designed as a hunting rig. Not a showboat paper-puncher- they are intended to put meat on a plate. Rugged, adjustable power, a decent trigger, magazines that aren't fiddly, that beloved English style-stock (straight pull)… The list is pretty darn long. And yeah, 2 + a hushemupper for $1500 is nothing to sneeze at.
As much as I want other PCPs, I can say 100% that I'm going to get a .25 Sumatra Carbine before my birthday next July. I was torn between .22 and .25, but "dial-a-power" and accuracy across a broad spectrum of pellets and slugs plus the option for arrows means all bases are covered. I buy my airguns based on spreadsheet logic, and the Sumatra has been dominating the "over $200" PCP Excel Cell since I created that darn sheet.
Just my 2 ¢
EDIT: Steve- I just looked over that Seneca Eagle Claw... me want! my only wish is that it came with a straight pull stock- those mate perfectly with lever-guns. I can get a Sumatra for less but dang it...
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You guys are all so right,....that's why the Sumatras are way up there on the percentage,.....I would say 90% Sumatra and 10% Edgun if I had to break it down.
but that 10% still naggin ;D ;D ;D ;D
I love my Sumatra Carbine. I do wish the metallurgy was a bit better though. I imagine if the main bits were made from good quality steel instead of the mystery pot metal the Sumatra's could be pushed to higher power and remain reliable. My first Sumatra had chunks of that pot metal break off. I still remember that and wince. I should send it to Will to go over and fix that horrible trigger and generally tweak it. But I'm currently unemployed and have no mad money to spend on airguns now.
The Sumatra Carbine with a light scope is so nice to carry around and well balanced.
I also love my Marauder, but it's a pain to carry as it's heavy and harder to shoot as a result. This is especially true when it's sporting the ATN sight with big battery.
I love my .257 Texan for reaching way the heck out and doing so with a solid WHACK. No doubt I can whack Turkeys at will out to 200 yards. But good grief it's hard to carry in the field, and is got terrible balance. Last Turkey hunt I put on a bipod and flopped on my belly with the dirt, ticks and fleas to take a shot.
For the kind of hunting you do Manny, I think a Sumatra Carbine in .25 is a wonderful machine. But then again, you already know that. :)
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You got that right :) :) i used to have a nice Sumatras collection
When Evanix came out with bullpups and .25 e .357 I got lured that way with more models, different calibers coming out it has been a several years adventure and a great adventure at that.
but I never forgot my Sumatras and missed them the all time :)
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Manny,
I had lusted after the 25 carbine for 6 years, in the meantime several very fine airguns passed through my hands, including a not so fine Edgun, which arrived with a non-working regulator, a Ranger 45 and a Haley 257 Scandalous.
I bought a 25 carbine on my birthday this year and realized I had waited way too long.
I lusted after the Veteran and the Vulcan before buying the Sumatra at roughly 60% of what they, the ‘V’ bullpups cost, and the fact that they would need power tunes to match the power that little gaudy Korean jewel will produce.
Between my power modded Bulldog and 25 Sumatra, I feel confident I can stop the heart on anything that walks where I live.
Go for the Sumatra 25 carbine, you know all too well what it is capable of.
Roachcreek
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Ya'll got me clutching onto my Sumatra even tighter.
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The Edguns are great guns but you have to enjoy the bullpup feel. I'd own mine still if I did. I've since gave up on the bullpup designs even though the ones I've owned have been some of the best shooters there just not as comfy as a carbine/rifle. A Sumatra is on my want to try list someday but I like .22s so I'd go .22
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Manny,
I had lusted after the 25 carbine for 6 years, in the meantime several very fine airguns passed through my hands, including a not so fine Edgun, which arrived with a non-working regulator, a Ranger 45 and a Haley 257 Scandalous.
I bought a 25 carbine on my birthday this year and realized I had waited way too long.
I lusted after the Veteran and the Vulcan before buying the Sumatra at roughly 60% of what they, the ‘V’ bullpups cost, and the fact that they would need power tunes to match the power that little gaudy Korean jewel will produce.
Between my power modded Bulldog and 25 Sumatra, I feel confident I can stop the heart on anything that walks where I live.
Go for the Sumatra 25 carbine, you know all too well what it is capable of.
Roachcreek
No kidding, Sumatras are such an underrated gun,.....wonderful hunters.
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I think sometimes people get caught up on the looks...especially with that double tube. For me, the pics on the net didn't exactly tickle my fancy...but I had read about the insane power levels that could be achieved. I decided to start saving up, putting function before form.
Fast forward to a year later, and I now own a .25 long. Pictures don't do it justice...she's beautiful when I hold her. And she's gotten many compliments as well.
And she's a fire breather...no doubt about that. 977 peak FPS with a 48gr slug. She's so good to me. :D
So I guess what I'm trying to say is...
Get the Sumatra, my bruddah!! ;D
I think if you get the RM5, you'll be happy for a little...but your heart's always gonna dance when you read about one of your first loves. 8)
Oh...and P.S.
You can get 2 Sumatras. Carbine for the quick and agile days, and the Long for when you really wanna put down the hammer.
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Manny has owned Sumatras before.... he knows what he likes. That's why he's returning to the scene of the crimes.... ;)
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Manny has owned Sumatras before.... he knows what he likes. That's why he's returning to the scene of the crimes.... ;)
not just a sumatra, he has owned Piatt sumatra's and there other variants.... 8)
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You definitely can't beat the Sumatra's amount of power for the buck.
Throw in a Piatt tune & WOW! Just makes a great airgun even greater. 8)
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Ya'll are just Spot on !!!! :) :)
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I love my taipan. Only downside is the cocking handle is farther back and some people find like that. Takes some getting used too but I imagine its similar to shooting the sumatra having to pull the cocking bolt from videos I've watched.
I know the taipan will outshoot the sumatra on paper and you can probably get to 60fpe without sending it out for a tune.
But...I dont think it can ever put out as much power as those Sumatra's, I may be wrong but I haven't seen anyone pushing theirs to the raw power the Sumatra can get to.
I really like the look of the carbine I just cant justify buying one. I have my .25 mrod which shoots great and I want to do more tinkering on her for a better tune.
Also don't get to hunt anything like pigs or coyotes, deers etc so not much sense in having a sweet powerful hunting gun that I never get to use or only once or twice a year.
I'd get the Sumatra. You posted many a great story when you had those.
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I am also a die hard lever action guy, just always loved lever actions :)
(https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/DSCF1823_zps9jf9xfy4.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/NorthShoreLB/media/DSCF1823_zps9jf9xfy4.jpg.html)
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I love my bullpups, but all of them are just awkward to point in the woods. It can be done, but if you have been hunting with a long gun all your life...
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Manny, I've had two Edguns. The R5M and the R5. Both in .25 cal.
The cocking on the R5M left a lot to be desired for me. My little .22 Colibri put it to shame! I much preferred the single shot bolt action of the R5 of the two guns.
Mike Bricker aka Centercut over at AGN had the same experience with the R5M that I had. He has my R5 now and found the new Nielsen 26.8 gr .25 cal slugs to be a laser in it.
I've never had a Sumatra,but would probably buy one before I tried another Edgun! LOL
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I am also a die hard lever action guy, just always loved lever actions :)
I love that leather on the lever in that pic.
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Could always do a spreadsheet thing like I do. Top of my list is the Sumatra. That Seneca Dragonfly is close- want to read a few more reviews on it (I like the Sumatra magazine better)
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Was reading some not so stellar RM5 reviews,...to bad,
Sumatras are more and more in the lead ;D
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Manny has owned Sumatras before.... he knows what he likes. That's why he's returning to the scene of the crimes.... ;)
Manny has owned Sumatras before.... he knows what he likes. That's why he's returning to the scene of the crimes.... ;)
not just a sumatra, he has owned Piatt sumatra's and there other variants.... 8)
oh trust me, I know. Manny's one of the reasons why I joined on here. I've seen the Career collection. 8)
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Could always do a spreadsheet thing like I do. Top of my list is the Sumatra. That Seneca Dragonfly is close- want to read a few more reviews on it (I like the Sumatra magazine better)
>sigh< I meant Sumatra Eagle Claw.
I revisited my spreadsheet last night and pretty much sealed the deal on a Sumatra Carbine in .25. Adjustable power and the ability to hurl arrows, slugs, and pellets is a tough combination to beat.
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Peter, what arrows are you referring to? I have been looking but can’t find 25 arrows.
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Not so sure on those arrows, at least for a while.
Yesterday I ordered a Arsenal mold, 251-53, ordered it to drop .254 with pure lead. I have the NOE sizer and will roll size at first to .252-.253 which seems to be the Seneca barrel diameter from the slugging I have done. I went with .254 in case I ever get a 25 with a LW barrel or friends that have the Sumatra version.
Roll sizing can be done on a flat surface, I use a granite counter top, and a Alabama Damascus knife blank to size with, but only to determine which diameter chambers best in my rifles as it is slow.
Looks like I will order the .252 sizer from NOE and polish it up towards .253, using Knifemaker’s, method, or until I can get the optimal groove diameter.
Roachcreek
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It is Manny’s fault I bought a Sumatra .25 Carbine. Way back when he had a big collection of Korean lever action rifles. His hunting stories blew me away, and I was smitten by this little rifle that kills piggies.
It’s strange, I originally thought the Sumatra’s, Sam Yangs and Careers to be bit over the edge in gaudy. Once I had a carbine in my hands though, the looks grew on me.
I won’t forget the first time I shot the Sumatra Carbine. First I took the Hill pump out of the box, put it together and huffed and puffed my way through filling the rifle for the first time.
Loaded up a 25 grain or so JSB or Baracuda, and without touching the power wheel I pulled the trigger and was rewarded with a sonic CRACK that announced to the world that I was loaded for bear. I was giddy and greatly concerned that I’d soon have the Gendarmes knocking on the door. I ordered an LDC soon after.
So many Rattus Rattus have fallen to the Sumatra, and recently it slayed a large number of Eurasian Doves when the Marauder and ATN scattered lead every which way. A compact side focus Leapers Scope that Manny recommended so long ago is a perfect size and weight that keeps the Sumatra easy to carry and handle.
I have had a long version of the Sumatra in mind for a long time for even more reach out and smack down power.
I love this little rifle!
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I can roll my own arrows; not depending on store-bought. Been shooting bows (mostly primitve tackle and my horsebow) for a few years. Worked every imaginable arrow from oak 3/8" dowels 34" long on to tapered "flight-bow" style arrows.
Air Venturi purportedly has been promising .25 arrows for a while, but I've not seen them materialize. Main thing for the Sumatra is adjustable power and LOTS of it.
On the flip side, a .22 Sumatra may end up in my Cart since we have so many good offerings in slugs and pellets in .22 now.
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I can roll my own arrows; not depending on store-bought. Been shooting bows (mostly primitve tackle and my horsebow) for a few years. Worked every imaginable arrow from oak 3/8" dowels 34" long on to tapered "flight-bow" style arrows.
Air Venturi purportedly has been promising .25 arrows for a while, but I've not seen them materialize. Main thing for the Sumatra is adjustable power and LOTS of it.
On the flip side, a .22 Sumatra may end up in my Cart since we have so many good offerings in slugs and pellets in .22 now.
.22s are really good for having a big power spread, with the 14gr to 34gr pellets weight options.
.......really fun to power it way down and sling those 14.3gr pellets :)
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My 25 carbine likes the NOE 27 grain pellets I cast at low power. The 43 grain Seneca pellet on hi power settings, 3 below maxi, is the most accurate in mine.
I am going to test velocity with it today to determine what the 53 grain slugs will do. Probably double load 2 predators which will be close to the slugs weight.
I saw a post here about operating the lever, mine works fine for me from the shoulder like any other lever gun, just a lot more difficult.
Roachcreek
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I started out shooting Benji Domes in my .25 cal Sumatra Carbine, but have recently moved to H&N Baracuda. It is great to be able to drop the power back to push the Cudas at about 900 fps for more shots and a bit quieter with the Donny Sumo, but easily be able to crank the power back up to 70 ft lbs or more right there in the field if that yote or piggy decides to give me an opportunity.
My Airforce Condor does well with the H&N Grizzlys, and I think the Carbine could also. Unfortunately, they tend to fall through the back of the magazine so I am working on a way to prevent them falling out, and hope to do some testing in the near future.
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If I'm not mistaken Manny's was the first I saw and read about as well. I've always loved a lever action rifle from even before my air gun days. I too looked forward to Manny's 'bacon makin' stories. Finally got the opportunity to get my hands on my Sumatra and it quickly rose to the top of my list. Other than a couple sentimental guns hanging in our home, the Sam Yang will be the last one I part with if the need ever comes up.
To be honest, I can't think of a gun at any cost that I would rather have. True, I haven't shot them all but I have a feeling it wouldn't matter. This gun fits everything I need an airgun to do.
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Sumatras,...."most underrated guns in the airgun world" :)
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Steve, Will Piatt was telling me how he machines the Sumatra magazines for an o-ring that holds those loose Grizzlies & other offending pellets in the magazine. You might want to talk to him about that issue.
The Baracudas shoot really well out of my carbine. Plus, they stay put in the magazine if you snug them with a BIC pen tube.
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The Baracudas shoot really well out of my carbine. Plus, they stay put in the magazine if you snug them with a BIC pen tube.
That is the big trick !!!!!
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Thanks Dave, I haven't had any issues with the Cudas, and they have always been my fav pellet for my higher powered rifles. On the other hand I have had good luck with the Grizzleys also (in my Condor), and their Bcc is very attractive. I haven't tried to single load them for accuracy yet, and not sure if the shorter barrel of the Carbine will stablize them, but it would be nice if they did.
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Raptor?... sorry can't stand the looks of that gun, I don't care how good it is, I will never have one in my house :)
Manny, you're very cool, and I follow your hog adventures...! 8)
And after reading your comment above I distinctly remembered the thought when first seeing a Sumatra:
"Why would you design a gun to look like it was made 100 years ago, if you could make it look like 21st century?" ;D
And:
"I don't care how much power it has, I will never have one in my house!" ;D
It just shows me how we're all so different — yet we all like our guns and love to shoot!! ;D
I hope you'll find your perfect gun, Manny!
Matthias
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Well,
many, many of us love guns that where designed 100 years ago,
Henry, Winchester and Marlin lever actions still sell today like crazy, so do revolvers.
Also I really like tactical guns, bullpups, classic sporter rifles and modern mini-carbines.
.......but the execution is what matters to me, any of them gun can be made beautifully or terribly :)
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Manny, wouldn’t you like to try something you’ve never tried before?
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Manny, wouldn’t you like to try something you’ve never tried before?
Like ?
give me an example.
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I'm guessing he means the Edguns
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or the Raptor
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or the Raptor
ZERO chance on that one :) :)
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I'm guessing he means the Edguns
Yeah, the Edgun is sooooo appealing :)
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I don’t know all of what you have and haven’t owned or handled, I just know you already know what a Sumatra can do for you.
What do you think of the Vulcan/Airgun Technology Uragan?
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Interested to see where you go with this Manny.
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I don’t know all of what you have and haven’t owned or handled, I just know you already know what a Sumatra can do for you.
What do you think of the Vulcan/Airgun Technology Uragan?
Yeah, I like all those Eastern European guns,....my problem is, after I get one will I still think about my beloved Sumatras :) :)
I really love those sleak, old school, power adjustable, not pellet fussy, simple, Hammers :) :) :)
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A guy on youtube does amazing things with a blow gun and darts. Have you considered one of those?
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Wonder how much longer we will have to wait. I seen you sold your .30.
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Wonder how much longer we will have to wait. I seen you sold your .30.
Local guy tested the REX arrowshooter and should be back to get it soon,......3 guns to go after that :) :)
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A guy on youtube does amazing things with a blow gun and darts. Have you considered one of those?
Got plenty bows and arrows,.....not much is more lethal/quite then that :)
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Wonder how much longer we will have to wait. I seen you sold your .30.
Local guy tested the REX arrowshooter and should be back to get it soon,......3 guns to go after that :) :)
I still think I could shoot it before jeff get to lol.
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Ok, A gun just got thrown in the mix,
The Uragan .30
decisions to come :)
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Ok, A gun just got thrown in the mix,
The Uragan .30
decisions to come :)
😀 But you don't like bottle guns, and it has the largest bottle going.
Can't blame you though, if I ever get a .30, Uragan is on my short list.
Tony at Talon Tunes has made a couple of those hit hard as F'.
Whatever would you do with all those shots?
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Ok, A gun just got thrown in the mix,
The Uragan .30
decisions to come :)
😀 But you don't like bottle guns, and it has the largest bottle going.
Can't blame you though, if I ever get a .30, Uragan is on my short list.
Tony at Talon Tunes has made a couple of those hit hard as F'.
Whatever would you do with all those shots?
I don't like bottle guns because the bottle always looks out of place,
The long bottle on the Uragan to me looks very appealing and proportional to the gun.
yeah the 50 shots are way to much, wander if she can be powered up a bit :)
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I don't like bottle guns because the bottle always looks out of place,
The long bottle on the Uragan to me looks very appealing and proportional to the gun.
yeah the 50 shots are way to much, wander if she can be powered up a bit :)
You would only have to fill once every 5 years. ;D
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The Uragan .30 is now more appealing then the Edgun RM5 .25
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Edgun over any other gun any time... :D
The Edgun build quality and accuracy is just soooo great !!!
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Well, ya'll lost me at bullpup.
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The Uragan .30 is now more appealing then the Edgun RM5 .25
Wow , I never thought you’d be into that one Manny. I would stick with the EDgun also , unfortunately we can’t get any of them up here . I’m just about to liquidate some of my collection as well .
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The bottle on the Uragun flows as part of the assembly. It's not like the Hatsans and most other bottle guns where it spoils good aesthetics.
Sumatra is a given and does everything well. I'd still be inclined to go that route.
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That’s why I suggested looking into the Uragan. I haven’t bought a new PCP in a year, and I already have a gun that would fill the niche of a .30 Uragan (my Flex carbine). But if I was on the market for a compact .30, the .30 Uragan would probably be what I’d be getting. A lot of power with compact handling.
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The bottle on the Uragun flows as part of the assembly. It's not like the Hatsans and most other bottle guns where it spoils good aesthetics.
Sumatra is a given and does everything well. I'd still be inclined to go that route.
You are right on two counts there :)
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Edgun over any other gun any time... :D
The Edgun build quality and accuracy is just soooo great !!!
But I've also been reading not so flattering reviews on the RM5
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That’s why I suggested looking into the Uragan. I haven’t bought a new PCP in a year, and I already have a gun that would fill the niche of a .30 Uragan (my Flex carbine). But if I was on the market for a compact .30, the .30 Uragan would probably be what I’d be getting. A lot of power with compact handling.
Always liked the looks of the Uragan since first came out,....didn't know they made it in .30 cal
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I started a thread in the Korean gate trying to chase down first hand information on the o’ring mod on the Sumatra/Seneca magazine to allow slugs and certain brands/designs of pellets out of the magazine.
I decided to take matters into my own hands and do it myself.
Worked out fine with just a mill vise, hacksaw, small round Swiss file and o’rings sourced from p-rod o’ring kit.
I did a tutorial on how to do it on that thread, rewarding mod.
Roachcreek
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Pics of the final product?
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I like the idea of a .30 Uragan. But I've never handled one so I really don't know. I own an R3M and am very pleased with Ed's design and quality, inside and out so I would lean more towards what I know.
Has anyone shown us the inside of a Uragan yet?
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Sorry, but I am not able to post pictures here, but not much to see, cylinderal magazine with a o’ring on it.
I need to do my Bulldog magazines now.
Roachcreek
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I like the idea of a .30 Uragan. But I've never handled one so I really don't know. I own an R3M and am very pleased with Ed's design and quality, inside and out so I would lean more towards what I know.
Has anyone shown us the inside of a Uragan yet?
Yeah, I'm trying to get a bit more info on the Uragan, but Vulcans have a great reputation for a long time.
love the idea of the Edgun RM5, but been reading some less then stellar reviews on the lever action/magazine combo
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At 30 yards my Sumatra is one ragged hole. The Marauder is a larger ragged hole.
Left: Sumatra .25 Carbine 6 shots
Top: Marauder .25 8 shots
Right: Marauder running low on air 8 shots
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Sumatra, most underrated gun in the airgunning world