GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: UCChris on November 02, 2019, 05:01:47 PM
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Okay, I got the barrel cleaned on the Taipan and put about 100 shots through it yesterday. I did some accuracy testing and a full shot string this morning. All groups are 5 shot groups at 33 yards, off of a tripod w/gun vise and rear bag.
Right click on all pictures and open in new tab for a better size.
First a picture of my shooting setup:
(https://i.imgur.com/Rnfe18d.jpg)
I started with the shroud off and with the gun around 160ish bar. After the first two groups, I refilled the gun to 240 bar and resumed shooting.
(https://i.imgur.com/d6xbIkJ.jpg)
So that's weird, right? Two groups, after the gun has been sitting overnight and those are the best two groups this gun has shot since I got it. Then I go to refill and the groups are massive in comparison? So I hung another target paper and put the shroud on. Here are the next six groups. Four were shot right after hanging the new target and putting on the shroud, maybe 3-5 minutes after finishing the previous groups. Just for curiosity's sake, I stopped after four shrouded groups and went and refilled the gun to 240 bar. The last two groups are after the refill.
(https://i.imgur.com/7xFozMw.jpg)
Some weird stringing on the first one and a decent group on the second one. I don't think the refill affected the groups as much as the unshrouded group, but only the second and, sort of, the third group match the first groups of the day, before any refills. At this point, I was running out of time, so I had to shoot a string. I refilled the gun to 260 bar (accidentally overfilled a bit) and got to shooting a string.
(https://i.imgur.com/ICUHVSB.jpg)
Shots 90-91 declined very quickly, so this hammer setting is apparently on the plateau for this particular regulator setting, even though I backed out the HS adjustment ~4 full turns from the factory setting. The Veteran Compact only has a 350mm barrel (13.77") so I would imagine that it has to be run a bit hot on the hammer spring to get the 17ish FPE that I'm getting. I'm happy with that string, more or less. I would hope that the regulator isn't quite broken in and that it will settle somewhere around 2% ES. Unfortunately, it would appear that regulator creep is not responsible for the groups opening up after the fill.
So, overall, things are acceptable. Maybe I expect too much from a $1400 gun vs the sub-$500 airguns I've owned previously, but I would expect better accuracy than this and a bit tighter spread. That being said, I understand I've only tried two types of pellets in the gun so far, the gun is shooting tighter than it was out of the box, and mechanical things such as our airguns require break-in, regardless of how nicely they are machined or the price tag.
I'm gonna shoot another 500 shots and run the same test and see where we're at. I would love your thoughts!
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I know this is fine made barrel but how is the crown and lead in look, also did you check important bolts and grubscrews
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Are those the only pellets you've tried? The day they moved production to CZ I was afraid the guns wouldn't be as good due to the LW barrels instead of the CZs. Hope this isn't the case!
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I assume you are shooting your groups using single shot tray, not magazine? I have a new Veteran Standard in .22. It is shooting very well, but it definitely shoots better in single shot mode, which I have found is common with most magazine rifles. I have found the Veteran a lot of fun, but a bit of an oddity too. When shooting in the yard, I'm sitting on my deck step, and using shooting sticks. In that manner, I shoot my FX Royale, Red Wolf, and RAW considerably better than the Veteran. But part of that is me, because I find the other rifles easier to shoot, just something about the way the Vet fits in the stix is more challenging for me to handle. But that's on me. At the range yesterday, I shot the Vet from the bench using a bipod. It was windy, so I limited my shooting to 25-30 yards. From the bench and with the bipod, I shot some tiny one-hole groups using the s/s tray, and acceptable hunting groups with the magazine. A couple of the magazine groups were very small too, but I did get the occasional flyer with the magazine, which I have experienced with most magazine rifles. In fact, the only rifle I own, or have ever owned, that shoots fully as well with the magazine is the Royale 400. All my other rifles have better triggers than the FX, but it loves the mag, which makes it a great hunting rifle. It's a platform FX should have embraced and improved, rather than going down the road of all the super-adjustable stuff. But again, that's just me.
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I know this is fine made barrel but how is the crown and lead in look, also did you check important bolts and grubscrews
Crown looks good to me, lead looks good but it's hard to get a good look. I will ask my boss to bring his borescope to work on Monday. I did tighten down every external screw upon purchasing the rifle.
Are those the only pellets you've tried? The day they moved production to CZ I was afraid the guns wouldn't be as good due to the LW barrels instead of the CZs. Hope this isn't the case!
I have tried JSB 10.34 and 8.44. 8.44 might be a hair more accurate, but it's kinda a tossup. I also did try Nielsen 15.5 slugs, but those shot 200 fps slower than the 10.34 pellet and grouped about 3/4" at 33 yards.
I assume you are shooting your groups using single shot tray, not magazine? I have a new Veteran Standard in .22. It is shooting very well, but it definitely shoots better in single shot mode, which I have found is common with most magazine rifles. I have found the Veteran a lot of fun, but a bit of an oddity too. When shooting in the yard, I'm sitting on my deck step, and using shooting sticks. In that manner, I shoot my FX Royale, Red Wolf, and RAW considerably better than the Veteran. But part of that is me, because I find the other rifles easier to shoot, just something about the way the Vet fits in the stix is more challenging for me to handle. But that's on me. At the range yesterday, I shot the Vet from the bench using a bipod. It was windy, so I limited my shooting to 25-30 yards. From the bench and with the bipod, I shot some tiny one-hole groups using the s/s tray, and acceptable hunting groups with the magazine. A couple of the magazine groups were very small too, but I did get the occasional flyer with the magazine, which I have experienced with most magazine rifles. In fact, the only rifle I own, or have ever owned, that shoots fully as well with the magazine is the Royale 400. All my other rifles have better triggers than the FX, but it loves the mag, which makes it a great hunting rifle. It's a platform FX should have embraced and improved, rather than going down the road of all the super-adjustable stuff. But again, that's just me.
Interesting, this is all with magazines. I will try it with the single shot tray on Monday, but I honestly hope it shoots the same, because I would hate to want to use the magazines while hunting and not be choosing the most accurate option.
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Interesting, this is all with magazines. I will try it with the single shot tray on Monday, but I honestly hope it shoots the same, because I would hate to want to use the magazines while hunting and not be choosing the most accurate option.
It will almost for sure shoot better with the s/s tray. That's not to say the magazine accuracy will not be acceptable for hunting, although your current groups are not, too much room for missed or crippled squirrels. At your 33 yard range, it should be shooting small, one-hole groups under good conditions.
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Interesting, this is all with magazines. I will try it with the single shot tray on Monday, but I honestly hope it shoots the same, because I would hate to want to use the magazines while hunting and not be choosing the most accurate option.
It will almost for sure shoot better with the s/s tray. That's not to say the magazine accuracy will not be acceptable for hunting, although your current groups are not, too much room for missed or crippled squirrels. At your 33 yard range, it should be shooting small, one-hole groups under good conditions.
K, so I'm not crazy for expecting one tiny hole. Good.
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Chris, try RWS Superdomes. My CZ-634 loves RWS pellets. Yeah, springer versus PCP, but CZ
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Chris, try RWS Superdomes. My CZ-634 loves RWS pellets. Yeah, springer versus PCP, but CZ
He doesnt have a CZ barrel its a LW and they are pellet picky
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Chris, try RWS Superdomes. My CZ-634 loves RWS pellets. Yeah, springer versus PCP, but CZ
He doesnt have a CZ barrel its a LW and they are pellet picky
This. Guess I'll get some pellet samplers ordered.
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Waaaah?
I missed that somewhere along the way. This threw me for a curve.
Are those the only pellets you've tried? The day they moved production to CZ I was afraid the guns wouldn't be as good due to the LW barrels instead of the CZs. Hope this isn't the case!
If they moved production to CZ, why would they use an LW barrel?
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FWIW, I have a Ukrainian made TVLong with CZ barrel and it’s very accurate with or without the magazine. One red flag...you said you took the shroud off but did you mark where the grub screw at the back of it was initially so you know how much to tighten it? I believe that the tightness of the shroud acts like a tuner on my rifle. (Barrel harmonics). I would suggest that, once you find the best pellet, try changing the tightness of the shroud until you get your best groups. I’m unsure whether this matters on all TV’s though and maybe it’s all just my imagination 🤔. Maybe some of our professional tuners will weigh in on this for you.
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Should made NO difference. barrels muzzle is threaded and the rearmost end cap of LDC free floats around barrel NOT coming up against scope tower. So tighter or looser at the at the muzzles end having no change on tension what so ever. Once tight securing the grub screw simply prevents further rotation / unscrewing.
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Should made NO difference. barrels muzzle is threaded and the rearmost end cap of LDC free floats around barrel NOT coming up against scope tower. So tighter or looser at the at the muzzles end having no change on tension what so ever. Once tight securing the grub screw simply prevents further rotation / unscrewing.
Scott is correct however, I did make sure it lined up the same.
Scott, I'm going to run the same grouping test with the 8.44 on Monday. If the results are the same, I may run over to Utah Airguns and get some of the old style 13.43 (they don't have the redesigned). If none of that works, I'd like to discuss sending it to you, if you think you might have any ideas.
While cleaning the barrel, I noticed it feels as if it is perfect as far as the same pressure to pull the patch until the last inch or so, at which point it chokes down very smoothly.
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Scott is certainly capable, and I'm not trying to dissuade you from sending it to him. But, before sending off, I would clean the barrel again, and this time by removing and scrubbing with a brush. Your groups appear to deteriorate quickly after cleaning, which could mean a hard fouled spot that a pull-through will not remove. It could also be a small machining burr that can be polished, perhaps even by hand with Flitz and a tight patch. I've had good luck by using Flitz on a patch that is wrapped around a brush. Neither the cleaning nor Flitz polishing will do any harm, and it might do the trick. But to be honest, I've had a couple of barrels during the last year that behaved similar, and both were bad barrels that were replaced. If that is your situation, Scott can likely see the issue quickly with a scope exam.
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If they moved production to CZ, why would they use an LW barrel?
Yeah, I was incredulous about this too. Remember though, it was only the .22 that got the CZ barrels. I remember reading something on the other forum about the factory .177 retrofit kits...I can't remember if they were based on a CZ barrel or some other barrel.
Chris, I know you checked this but I have to ask...is the barrel screwed tight into the receiver? Also may want try a different scope next. Just to vet the scope. Also consider trying a different bench and benchrest setup. It could be anything.
How far is it to the seller? If its not that far go over and shoot it on their setup. If they cannot pin it down then send it to Scott. I guarantee you when you get it back it will put a smile on your face.
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The .177 kits didn't have barrels only 2 mags, ssa, hammer spring and theses replacement part. I bought a air arms cz200 barrel from PA to do mine.
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I've had good luck by using Flitz on a patch that is wrapped around a brush. Neither the cleaning nor Flitz polishing will do any harm, and it might do the trick.
Good advice. Weather new to me or fresh from the factory. I always do a polishing. Never hurts and most times helps. At the very least, it extends the time between cleanings.
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I may have found what is happening. I loosened the eight screws that clamp the barrel in preparation to remove the barrel to check the lead. I ended up not having a thin enough 13mm wrench, so I'll have to grind one down tomorrow at work. But, when tightening the screws back down, I decided to just snug them up and not crank them down like I did out of the box. I then shot a group at 30 yards. My front rest was a bag of flour and I had to rear rest, so this certainly was not ideal shooting conditions. Same US dime OD/.177 pellet ID target as what I used earlier.
(https://i.imgur.com/tNMjbnS.jpg)
That's six shots. Four in the middle tiny hole, one to the left, and I pulled the one that went slightly right. Off of not good rest. I will be running a full six groups tomorrow morning with my bend setup to see if it will continue to hole that small of a group.
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Yeah that's more like it. Hopefully that will hold up with subsequent groups. For what it's worth, I usually tinker around with the fit of barrel bands, shrouds and baffles, and tightness of the stock retention bolt (if relevant). Usually there will be an arrangement that favors harmonics to produce tighter groups.
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Yeah that's more like it. Hopefully that will hold up with subsequent groups. For what it's worth, I usually tinker around with the fit of barrel bands, shrouds and baffles, and tightness of the stock retention bolt (if relevant). Usually there will be an arrangement that favors harmonics to produce tighter groups.
I hope it holds up. I have an inch lb torque wrench that I can use to get consistent pressure, so that should help.
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Very interesting! Yeah I forget how tight they were when I had them but I think was in the 40in lb range
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Also .... IF YOU HAVE NEVER spent time shooting a bullpup and especially a SHORT one .... There super sensitive to body motion, ANY motion because the points of contact in holding or on a rest ARE SO CLOSE TOGETHER !
Compound that with a Trigger that may be a bit stiff or have some 2nd stage creep, your asking for motion !!! body tension, hand hold pressure, trigger hand grip pressure ALONG with Any cheek weld pressure your going to move during the shot.
Don't take this the wrong way .... your perceived accuracy concerns may be partly due to bad technique in getting and remaining motion free while breaking shots ???
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Also .... IF YOU HAVE NEVER spent time shooting a bullpup and especially a SHORT one .... There super sensitive to body motion, ANY motion because the points of contact in holding or on a rest ARE SO CLOSE TOGETHER !
Compound that with a Trigger that may be a bit stiff or have some 2nd stage creep, your asking for motion !!! body tension, hand hold pressure, trigger hand grip pressure ALONG with Any cheek weld pressure your going to move during the shot.
Don't take this the wrong way .... your perceived accuracy concerns may be partly due to bad technique in getting and remaining motion free while breaking shots ???
I have noticed this! I have the trigger adjusted to under a pound and as crisp as glass. However I have noticed that I still have to really focus on my follow through.
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I dont agree with the ss tray vs magazine arguement especially when the magazine isnt spring loaded its just a couple orings holding the pellets in place.as long as the pellets are getting crimped going through the hole in the magazine it shouldn't change anything.
My personal belief is single shot loading takes more time between shots which means you focus on getting a pellet, sliding it into the tray cocking then resettling down behind the gun. Which all gives you time for your muscles to relax and not stay locked in the same spot and so they dont get fatigued. Also gives you time to slow down your breathing and get in the zone opposed to jacking back the bolt and slamming another pellet into the barrel and firing it down range as soon as you get back on target.The act of single shot loading is a form of meditation (for me) which improves my groups. It's not that the ss tray is some magic solution.
I have the cz barrel long in .22 and it's an incredible rifle . I can't praise it enough . It does shoot most pellets with groups like your first ones but with jsb monsters I can put 10 in a postage stamp at 50 yards
I would try some other pellets check that you have no freeplay in your baffles like others said.
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I dont agree with the ss tray vs magazine arguement especially when the magazine isnt spring loaded its just a couple orings holding the pellets in place.as long as the pellets are getting crimped going through the hole in the magazine it shouldn't change anything.
My personal belief is single shot loading takes more time between shots which means you focus on getting a pellet, sliding it into the tray cocking then resettling down behind the gun. Which all gives you time for your muscles to relax and not stay locked in the same spot and so they dont get fatigued. Also gives you time to slow down your breathing and get in the zone opposed to jacking back the bolt and slamming another pellet into the barrel and firing it down range as soon as you get back on target.The act of single shot loading is a form of meditation (for me) which improves my groups. It's not that the ss tray is some magic solution.
I have the cz barrel long in .22 and it's an incredible rifle . I can't praise it enough . It does shoot most pellets with groups like your first ones but with jsb monsters I can put 10 in a postage stamp at 50 yards
I would try some other pellets check that you have no freeplay in your baffles like others said.
I have shot a ton of targets with rifles using magazines of various designs, and with rare exception, they all shoot better when loaded as single shot, either using the tray or manually inserting the pellet into the breech. Spring loading affects accuracy in some magazines, but is not the most critical factor. More important is the alignment of the magazine with the chamber and the probe. and, that the pellet can be held slightly out of alignment in the magazine by the O ring, even without spring tension. You can sometimes feel the slightly increased resistance in the lever when chambering a pellet, and actually call the shots that will be flyers. You never see magazines used in high level, precision competition, and this is not because the shooters enjoy inserting the pellets. In fact, it would be to the shooter's advantage to use the magazine when conditions allow rapidly shooting several rounds. It would also minimize the risk of pellet damage in mishandling them. They know their rifles shoot better in single shot loading. I am convinced of this without doubt.
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I rarely ever use a magazine in any guns regardless of if the mags shoot the same as single shot tray as I just like to individually load when shooting or pesting. I find it makes me not rush shots and makes me focus more. My Kral Puncher Jumbo shoots no different with a mag or single loading and when I owned my Taipans never had an issue with any of them and actually shot awesome groups like MOA with the mag at 100yds with my Taipan Veteran Long .22. What I would give to have that one back. I've heard Daystates though are a big difference usually with mag to single loading.
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I rarely ever use a magazine in any guns regardless of if the mags shoot the same as single shot tray as I just like to individually load when shooting or pesting. I find it makes me not rush shots and makes me focus more. My Kral Puncher Jumbo shoots no different with a mag or single loading and when I owned my Taipans never had an issue with any of them and actually shot awesome groups like MOA with the mag at 100yds with my Taipan Veteran Long .22. What I would give to have that one back. I've heard Daystates though are a big difference usually with mag to single loading.
I tend to agree with that, at least the Daystate/Brocock rifles I have owned did suffer more accuray degradation with the magazine than does the Taipan. Most of the flyers I get with Taipan magazine are subtle, and would often not result in missing a squirrel size target. But that same flyer would take me out of the competition in a match scenario. Best is best, and second best loses.
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Chris, I hope the consistent scope tower torque proves beneficial. I'll be hopeful, but a bit doubtful that is the issue. If it still is not shooting to your satisfaction, remove the moderator and test it using just the bare barrel. It is an easy variable to eliminate. Sometimes a moderator can be problematic, even if clipping is not a visible issue. Again, I have no reason to suspect this is a problem, but it's easy to diagnose.
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Chris, I hope the consistent scope tower torque proves beneficial. I'll be hopeful, but a bit doubtful that is the issue. If it still is not shooting to your satisfaction, remove the moderator and test it using just the bare barrel. It is an easy variable to eliminate. Sometimes a moderator can be problematic, even if clipping is not a visible issue. Again, I have no reason to suspect this is a problem, but it's easy to diagnose.
In the original post I mention that I did a bare barrel and shroud test.
Anyway, it does appear that it was the rail clamp screws. Here's my preliminary shooting this morning. The first four groups are with a magazine and the following two are using the single shot tray. I am headed to the hardware store as soon as I can slip away from work to get a metric bit set, then I'll start testing torque settings with the torque wrench.
I threw the shot to the right on the last group, so I shot six pellets to get a good 5 shot group. These "dang" short bullpups are a whole different shooting experience than a rifle.
(https://i.imgur.com/2vdXpIq.jpg)
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Yeah the Shorty's are amazing hunters but tougher to get a handle on when shooting targets. The longs seem to shine at shooting groups. Why they quit shipping .22 Longs to the states is beyond me and if they would bring .177 in all lengths in they would sell a bunch
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Yeah the Shorty's are amazing hunters but tougher to get a handle on when shooting targets. The longs seem to shine at shooting groups. Why they quit shipping .22 Longs to the states is beyond me and if they would bring .177 in all lengths in they would sell a bunch
I would buy a .177 Long today and give the shorty to the wifey.
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Just shot four more groups and all four groups were good, but each had one pellet that just nudged out of the group. I'm going to pull the barrel and pull patches with paste on them, as well as pull the transfer port out and polish it, per Ernest Rowe's video on the subject.
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I'm still on the learning side of pcp and no master and have never been in in an airgun competition.
I tried single shot and magazine in my tv and couldnt tell one from the other on paper. Luck of the draw? Inexperience? Without extensive testing its opinion. Others know much better than me.
Some.lube pellets or size and swear by it others say it's a waste outside of competition. Some buy pellets by the lot number in massive quantities. Sorry to get away from op question. I just though for most backyard shooters its more the act of single shot loading then the actual mechanisms that improves the groups. Just my thoughts with no evidence or charts. I hope you figure out whats causing the problems because the taipan a are great guns from my experience.
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I'm still on the learning side of pcp and no master and have never been in in an airgun competition.
I tried single shot and magazine in my tv and couldnt tell one from the other on paper. Luck of the draw? Inexperience? Without extensive testing its opinion. Others know much better than me.
Some.lube pellets or size and swear by it others say it's a waste outside of competition. Some buy pellets by the lot number in massive quantities. Sorry to get away from op question. I just though for most backyard shooters its more the act of single shot loading then the actual mechanisms that improves the groups. Just my thoughts with no evidence or charts. I hope you figure out whats causing the problems because the taipan a are great guns from my experience.
I've found all the variables you mention to be very rifle specific. In general, my experience indicates the following: Lubing pellets helps accuracy in a few rifles, and will extend the need for cleaning in most rifles, but, it's not worth the time and effort. Weighing and sizing pellets is a waste of time. Paying attention to lot number can be beneficial, but not nearly to the extent as in rimfire ammunition. I use JSB pellets almost exclusively, and can generally tell no difference between lots. Every rifle I own, and have owned, shoots better from the single shot tray. In most cases the difference is small, and not of consequence for typical backyard or hunting use. The FX Royale is the best from the magazine in my experience, and the Taipan Veteran is about as good. For the casual shooter, none of it matters nearly as much as shooting practice.
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As much as I hate to admit it, I think Ed my be right about the SS vs magazine. I am going to use this as a pesting rifle, so I bumped the HS up a half turn, which I knew would take me from 870 fps to 890 fps average. I then shot my standard target to get a new baseline before messing with the torque settings for the clamp screws. The four on the left are magazine, the two on the right are single shot. The top left group is 10 shots, the rest are 5. Same as always, 33 yards, JSB 10.34.
(https://i.imgur.com/EnYJQdS.jpg)
The single shot groups are definitely better and now within where I would consider myself happy with the money I spent on the gun.
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Well, whether I'm right or not, I would not get to discouraged about using the mag with your Veteran. When it comes to critter rifles, I think many of us fall victim to being overly influenced by what our rifles do on the target. The real question may be, is my accuracy acceptable for the intended purpose with the magazine? My Vet is sitting on the porch right now waiting for a squirrel, and the magazine is in it. Shooting from a field position is, for me, a much bigger variable than the difference in accuracy between s/s and magazine. I shot these groups today at 25 yards with the Veteran, and both are certainly acceptable.
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Well, whether I'm right or not, I would not get to discouraged about using the mag with your Veteran. When it comes to critter rifles, I think many of us fall victim to being overly influenced by what our rifles do on the target. The real question may be, is my accuracy acceptable for the intended purpose with the magazine? My Vet is sitting on the porch right now waiting for a squirrel, and the magazine is in it. Shooting from a field position is, for me, a much bigger variable than the difference in accuracy between s/s and magazine. I shot these groups today at 25 yards with the Veteran, and both are certainly acceptable.
Those groups are with the magazine? One thing I am considering is how terribly flimsy the skirts are on a .177 pellet. Even though the magazine retention is just a couple o-rings, that might be too much. Maybe I'll pull one of the o-rings and see if the magazine groups shrink.
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Well, whether I'm right or not, I would not get to discouraged about using the mag with your Veteran. When it comes to critter rifles, I think many of us fall victim to being overly influenced by what our rifles do on the target. The real question may be, is my accuracy acceptable for the intended purpose with the magazine? My Vet is sitting on the porch right now waiting for a squirrel, and the magazine is in it. Shooting from a field position is, for me, a much bigger variable than the difference in accuracy between s/s and magazine. I shot these groups today at 25 yards with the Veteran, and both are certainly acceptable.
Those groups are with the magazine? One thing I am considering is how terribly flimsy the skirts are on a .177 pellet. Even though the magazine retention is just a couple o-rings, that might be too much. Maybe I'll pull one of the o-rings and see if the magazine groups shrink.
Sorry, guess I omitted a sentence. No, the larger group is with the magazine, the other is with s/s tray. The magazine group is better than my average with it, as I often get a flyer that opens it more. Of course, the other group is better than my average shooting s/s, wish that was my average group!
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So, I pulled one of the o-rings off of one of my magazines to do a test with. The first thing I noticed is that the pellet loads much easier. For better or for worse, that allowed me to feel a little bit of a hiccup at the transfer port. I think that I will pull the barrel tomorrow and look at the lead and the transfer port.
(https://i.imgur.com/2hkRNwl.jpg)
The magazine with two o-rings was decent. The single shot tray was awesome, minus the one shot I pulled. The groups with the single o-ring mod are fascinating. Four out of five shots in every group were just as tight as the single shot tray, but three of the groups had a weird flyer.
Tomorrow I will shoot 12, five shot groups to get more data.
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Don't forget to try other types of pellets too!
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Don't forget to try other types of pellets too!
I have a couple thousand JSB 10.34, which is why I have been using them. I also have a tin of 8.44.
After pulling the barrel tomorrow, I will test with the 8.44 grain. If those are different enough to the 10.34, for better or worse, then I'll assume that it might like a different pellet better and get some samplers.
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Alright, CEO is in town, so I haven't had much time to work on this project today. I did get the barrel pulled and I put a slight radius on the lead as it was just a hair sharper than I thought was best. When snugging the barrel back down, I noticed I was able to rotate it almost a quarter of a turn more than it was out of the box. I haven't had time to shoot any groups, but it averaged 910 fps with the 10.34 over ten shots, which is 20 fps faster than it was before I took the barrel off. I wonder if I was getting a tiny amount of air leakage. I snugged the rail mount screws to 25 in/lb and the stock screws to 65 in/lb. I should get some groups shot here in an hour or so.
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Got some shooting in. It looks like the accuracy is quite improved, but I need to shoot more. As a side note, my safety is now not functioning. Bout ready to throw this "dang" thing in the dumpster. I thought buying a $1000+ PCP was supposed to be an enjoyable experience.
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I am saddened by your struggles.
To note, yours is the first report of a .177 I've personally seen, and the first report that reflects poorly on the gun. While the sample size is too small to draw a conclusion, it does certainly provide some bias.
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65 in/lbs is mighty tight for those stock screws. 15-20 should be plenty. At that torque, and without pillars, you will get wood deformation. If it's okay now, then you're probably fine, but I would back off a bit.
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My safety was tight I put up with it a couple yrs. this year I dropped a drop of 3n1 oil flipped it a couple times wallah it starting working perfectly. I sure felt like a 69yr old dummy. Can hurt to give a drop a try.
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I am saddened by your struggles.
To note, yours is the first report of a .177 I've personally seen, and the first report that reflects poorly on the gun. While the sample size is too small to draw a conclusion, it does certainly provide some bias.
If I had known that it was going to be like this...
65 in/lbs is mighty tight for those stock screws. 15-20 should be plenty. At that torque, and without pillars, you will get wood deformation. If it's okay now, then you're probably fine, but I would back off a bit.
I had always heard 65 in/lb, but didn't realize it was just for pillared stocks. I backed them to 20.
My safety was tight I put up with it a couple yrs. this year I dropped a drop of 3n1 oil flipped it a couple times wallah it starting working perfectly. I sure felt like a 69yr old dummy. Can hurt to give a drop a try.
Mine has been a bit stiff out of the box, up until last night when it suddenly wouldn't work at all.
I just shot some groups with 8.44 at 950 fps and at 900 fps. The groups look promising, but when I ran 10 pellets over the chrony, I got a 38 fps ES from 862-900. I'm about ready to just go at this ()&(^)(&() gun with a hammer.
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Mine has been a bit stiff out of the box, up until last night when it suddenly wouldn't work at all.
I'm about ready to just go at this ()&(^)(&() gun with a hammer.
When you feel that a bmfh will solve the problem. Maybe sit it down for a while come back pull the stock off. Check if some thing is impeding the safety from working.
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The safety can be because you're changing the screw tightness on the scope rail. That whole thing holds the trigger pack and if it slides slightly forward or back will mess up the safety. As to the reg issue could honestly be the state of the tune.
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The safety can be because you're changing the screw tightness on the scope rail. That whole thing holds the trigger pack and if it slides slightly forward or back will mess up the safety. As to the reg issue could honestly be the state of the tune.
I did everything I could to make sure that they didn't move, but I certainly could have screwed that up.
I have had to back the HS adjuster out a ridiculous amount to get it down to 15 fpe, so that definitely could be it. I'm at UTAG right now and I'll probably pick up a tin of the 13.34 and see how that goes.
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If your there did you bring your gun? There the dealer you can have them figure it out also
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I wonder what the reg is set at for a .177 taipan. If you had to turn the HS adjuster really far back until you got 15fpe, then the gun is not tuned to the “knee”. It’s tuned way below the knee. If I remember correctly from all my fiddling with the brod is that you get the most consistency when tuned in or around the “knee”. When you have the power set way below what the regulated pressure is capable of, you see a larger extreme spread. That’s my theory.
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38 fps spread is a bit much, but, a single run of 10 is not meaningful. My guess, given having to make a large HS adjustment for 15 fps, the regulator might need to be set lower for an 8 gr pellet. I would leave it alone and stick with heavier pellets. My Veteran in .22 seems to be coming around well. I had to clean the barrel a few times during the first couple hundred pellets. After a tin now, the barrel is holding up better. I bought some 16 gr Hades to try on squirrels. Dropped the HS down a quarter turn from the 18 gr setting, and that kept me in the same 875-885 fps range. It shoots the Hades better than I anticipated. Good luck with yours, keep after the barrel and stick with heavier pellets.
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Seems like we were thinking the same thing Ed.
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Seems like we were thinking the same thing Ed.
Well, great and small minds think alike; let's claim the former!
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Only issue with tuning on the knee is ... That there is no way to turn up the power using HST. When the reg is set correctly ( In match gun terms ) hitting the valve harder increasing both lift and dwell does squat because the power your getting is based off available PRESSURE. When set like this slight inconsistencies in hammer strike or even slight dips or bumps in regulator pressure have very limited influence on the power and gun will just chug along at a very low ES value.
In a hunting gun, or one where you wish to power up / down via HST frequently you need to have a higher reg pressure so when you crank down on the HST it will make more power, less when HST is backed off.
There is NO FREE LUNCH here ... cause and effect are in play and how one sets up a PCP really is dictated by the intended use and spread of output power one wants to be a screw turn away ???
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Chris, I hope everything came out okay. I can't imagine that you would go to the dealer and not take your Taipan, in light of all the problems that you are having with it, it being a one-off and all. I hope that they were able to straighten it out for you. And that that will be the end of it.
If not, you might want to consider trading it in on a stock Taipan, one in .22 or .25, any length. Even with the assistance of the best brains on this forum this gun by all indications seems to be highly suspect, highly uncharacteristic of a Taipan, most assuredly less than you (and we) expected, and it mocks your existence.
So get rid of it and get you a stock, standard Taipan. With the background of issues you have had with it I'm pretty sure you have a good case for a full refund toward the purchase of another. And when you get it, don't adjust anything. Just shoot it. Just as it came out of the box. A Taipan out of the box will outshoot 99.9% of all the other airguns in the world. So there is little to gain in fiddlin' with it, but as we have seen, much to lose.
Thousands and thousands of Taipan owners have done just that, just shot them as they came, out of the box, most EVEN STILL, and are some of the most satisfied and loyal airgun owners in the world.
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If your there did you bring your gun? There the dealer you can have them figure it out also
Yes, I brought the gun.
I wonder what the reg is set at for a .177 taipan. If you had to turn the HS adjuster really far back until you got 15fpe, then the gun is not tuned to the “knee”. It’s tuned way below the knee. If I remember correctly from all my fiddling with the brod is that you get the most consistency when tuned in or around the “knee”. When you have the power set way below what the regulated pressure is capable of, you see a larger extreme spread. That’s my theory.
The reg appears to be set somewhere around 120 bar. You are correct that the ES that I was seeing was from being tuned way below the knee.
Chris, I hope everything came out okay. I can't imagine that you would go to the dealer and not take your Taipan, in light of all the problems that you are having with it, it being a one-off and all. I hope that they were able to straighten it out for you. And that that will be the end of it.
If not, you might want to consider trading it in on a stock Taipan, one in .22 or .25, any length. Even with the assistance of the best brains on this forum this gun by all indications seems to be highly suspect, highly uncharacteristic of a Taipan, most assuredly less than you (and we) expected, and it mocks your existence.
So get rid of it and get you a stock, standard Taipan. With the background of issues you have had with it I'm pretty sure you have a good case for a full refund toward the purchase of another. And when you get it, don't adjust anything. Just shoot it. Just as it came out of the box. A Taipan out of the box will outshoot 99.9% of all the other airguns in the world. So there is little to gain in fiddlin' with it, but as we have seen, much to lose.
Thousands and thousands of Taipan owners have done just that, just shot them as they came, out of the box, most EVEN STILL, and are some of the most satisfied and loyal airgun owners in the world.
I shot at the UTAG range for about 2 hours today, trying the 8.44, 10.34, and 13.43 JSB pellets. The gun really likes the 8.44 JSB @ 900-ish fps. Bump that to 950 and they start to open up, just as you would expect. The 10.34 JSB are grouping as well as the 8.44 @ 950 and not as well as the 8.44 @ 900. I bought a tin of 13.43 grain and it appears that they group the best. I can only push them to 840 fps with the short 13" barrel, but have to settle around 825 to be on the knee. I may have to see if I can bump the regulator pressure up because every 10 or 15 shots, there will be one flyer. Since they're really close to being slug shaped, I think they would like more speed.
I would just say screw it and get a .25, but I bought this gun specifically so I wouldn't have to deal with the caliber restrictions in IL when I move there in about six months.
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Illinois. I understand completely. Worked for companies in Northbrook and Mundelein. Well, just know that a whole new world awaits you in Texas if the Illinois thing doesn't work out. Come on down.
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I expect you can tune it to handle the 13 gr at a higher velocity, but you might give up a lot of air efficiency. And I'm not sure that has anything to do with your flyers. It ought to shoot the 10 gr pellets well. If the issue with flyers is improved by barrel cleaning, but doesn't last long, sounds like a barrel issue to me. If no correlation with cleaning, maybe have another experienced shooter try it, just to rule out a possible issue with bench technique.
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Illinois. I understand completely. Worked for companies in Northbrook and Mundelein. Well, just know that a whole new world awaits you in Texas if the Illinois thing doesn't work out. Come on down.
The second I can convince my better half to move to a more hobby-friendly state, I will do so!
Diaryboy was right about the safety. The rail must have slid just a minute amount, but I've got it back to where it was and the safety is function as it did out of the box.
I have put about 350 of the 13.43 JSB through it in the last two days, culminating in this 60 shot target, shot consecutively. Out of those 60 shots, I would call 3-4 of them fliers, which is acceptable considering I was using the magazine. I did make a scope adjustment between rows 2-3. These shots are all shot consecutively in one fill, so I feel like it was a good test.
(https://i.imgur.com/9twmDzS.jpg)
I must have not been using UTAG Lab Radar correctly yesterday. I put the gun over the chrony at my work and it maxes at 850 with the JSB 13.43 and is using a ton of air to do it. I originally backed it off to 840, but it was still louder than it should be and efficiency was at .9, really low for this gun. So I backed it off a bit more and settled at 815 fps. I'm now getting an efficiency of 1.2 and the gun seems to be "dang" near half as loud as it was at 850.
I think we can safely call this saga over. I am going to put a few more tins of 13.43 through it and revisit the 60 shot grouping paper. Until then, I'm just going to smack pests with it and forget about groups for a good while.
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Well Folks.
I bought the 177 short from Chris and I encountered all the same issues.
So I went to work testing.
Short story is the reg is leaking.
Es was all over and shots when filled to 3500 were 900 FPS and when tube psi went down FPS drops below 850.
Reg was set at 110 bar and would not hold a psi in the tester.
I took the reg from my 25,set it to 105 bar , cleaned the barrel and the gun became incredible.
Es of 4 on the 40 shots I took at 895 FPS with 10.3 g and one very small hole at 30 yds.
I have one of the 5 177 mutants and it is awesome as well.
I’ve owned over 20 taipans and this is the first issue ever. Probably just an oring will fix it.
I’ve own almost every pcp(well a lot) and taipan is the best.
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Well Folks.
I bought the 177 short from Chris and I encountered all the same issues.
So I went to work testing.
Short story is the reg is leaking.
Es was all over and shots when filled to 3500 were 900 FPS and when tube psi went down FPS drops below 850.
Reg was set at 110 bar and would not hold a psi in the tester.
I took the reg from my 25,set it to 105 bar , cleaned the barrel and the gun became incredible.
Es of 4 on the 40 shots I took at 895 FPS with 10.3 g and one very small hole at 30 yds.
I have one of the 5 177 mutants and it is awesome as well.
I’ve owned over 20 taipans and this is the first issue ever. Probably just an oring will fix it.
I’ve own almost every pcp(well a lot) and taipan is the best.
That breaks my heart man. I'm so glad you were able to figure it out, since I don't have a reg tester. How I wish I could afford to make you an offer to get it back. Please enjoy it!
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Well. It can be bought.
Can you believe that the mutant and vet share the same reg O-Rings.
I have mutant O-Rings so I replaced them and set to 135 bar and installed it in the 25 vet and its working great.
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Excellent! Glad you were able to put your finger on it.