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Airguns by Make and Model => Crosman Airguns => Topic started by: Relentless Holiday on October 28, 2019, 08:28:00 AM

Title: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Relentless Holiday on October 28, 2019, 08:28:00 AM
Hi,
I am trying to form an informed consencus Regarding the Steel breeck for the 1317 VS the 1322.

I need several responses to provide information for a dispute.

The gun in question is a 1377. When loading the breech is wide enough to fit a .22 pellet and the .177 pellets are turning sideways and jamming when loaded with the bolt probe.

I had believed the .177 breech was different and milled smaller.  It is the contention by others that the Crosman breech is actually sold the same dimensions for both guns. 

Please Post as many brief responses as possible and indicate your level of experience as back up for or against my belief.

If anyone can recommend a link to the dimensional specs fo the breeches that would be helpful as I have already sent photos with this guns measurements to the party who will be deciding this.

Thanks,
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: mobilehomer on October 28, 2019, 09:22:36 AM
They are the same. The only difference is the bolt.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Mr. Panther on October 28, 2019, 09:52:21 AM
Yup Ken. Same size different bolt.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: mr007s on October 28, 2019, 09:59:42 AM
SAME, if you are referring to 1377 vs 1322

I have no idea or answer if you are referring to  1317 VS the 1322 as stated in opening post
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Matchstickshooter on October 28, 2019, 10:56:26 AM
 Same breech,... to change calibers you swap barrel and bolt probe.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: K.O. on October 28, 2019, 12:26:41 PM
+1 to the above...Also the same with the short steel breech...
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Rabbit\Squirrel Killer on October 28, 2019, 04:26:21 PM
They are the same breech, screws, handle too, except with different bolt probes.  ;D

In fact the 1377, 1322, 1740, 2240, 2250, 2260, 2300, 2400, Maximus and Discovery use the same breech. The one difference is the probes caliber. I have worked on them 100s of times.

So I would describe myself as knowledgeable. Here are pics of my current parts on hand.

 
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: SwampHunter on October 28, 2019, 04:54:09 PM
They are the same breech, screws, handle too, except with different bolt probes.  ;D

In fact the 1377, 1322, 1740, 2240, 2250, 2260, 2300, 2400, Maximus and Discovery use the same breech. The one difference is the probes caliber. I have worked on them 100s of times.

So I would describe myself as knowledgeable. Here are pics of my current parts on hand.

 
Doesn't the disco and maxi breech have a rear ward "hidden" breech screw that won't work on the 13xx/24xx without drilling the tube?
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Rabbit\Squirrel Killer on October 28, 2019, 05:05:07 PM
They are the same breech, screws, handle too, except with different bolt probes.  ;D

In fact the 1377, 1322, 1740, 2240, 2250, 2260, 2300, 2400, Maximus and Discovery use the same breech. The one difference is the probes caliber. I have worked on them 100s of times.

So I would describe myself as knowledgeable. Here are pics of my current parts on hand.

 
Doesn't the disco and maxi breech have a rear ward "hidden" breech screw that won't work on the 13xx/24xx without drilling the tube?

A lot of the tubes have two screw holes so you can use either one, some do not give you the choice, true!
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: 7624452 on October 28, 2019, 06:14:45 PM
All Crosman steel breeches of standard length with the screw hole in front are the same size.  I have always preferred .22 cal because the .177 is too difficult for me to load.   ;D
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Rabbit\Squirrel Killer on October 28, 2019, 06:28:56 PM
All Crosman steel breeches of standard length with the screw hole in front are the same size.  I have always preferred .22 cal because the .177 is too difficult for me to load.   ;D

I agree .177 works easier with BB's, I seldom get BB's in backwards or sideways ;).
If you get the BB in wrong it may curve or tumble.  ;D
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: only1harry on October 29, 2019, 01:01:30 AM
Looks like you got most of your answers but I am moving it to the Crosman gate where it should be.  You 'll get more help there.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Relentless Holiday on October 29, 2019, 10:31:01 AM
Thank you all for the education. I just can't believe how many crosman wadctters have jammed sideways ...no matter how hard I squint....  :-\   I just assumed it could be better.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Rabbit\Squirrel Killer on October 29, 2019, 12:13:13 PM
Thank you all for the education. I just can't believe how many crosman wadctters have jammed sideways ...no matter how hard I squint....  :-\   I just assumed it could be better.

Maybe, your not holding your mouth right?  :P

Try to emulate the razz emoji while loading.  :P
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: rsterne on October 29, 2019, 01:18:27 PM
They may be "tripping" on the small screw hole in the bottom of the loading tray.... Try filling it with candle wax and see if the problem goes away....

Bob
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Tom Tucker on October 29, 2019, 02:55:32 PM
They may be "tripping" on the small screw hole in the bottom of the loading tray.... Try filling it with candle wax and see if the problem goes away....

Bob

This is exactly what I do - except I do it with black crayon.  Works perfectly.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: JeffB1961 on October 29, 2019, 04:23:39 PM
good info ! i'll suggest getting the probe for the caliber you don't have when you order the breech and also a few extra o-rings for the probes just to have on hand . on my 13xx metal breech i drilled and tapped for two more set screws to secure the barrel . why ? because i'm into over kill and because I COULD ! hahaha .

i'll also suggest ordering the 1701P prod trigger , much better than all the mods and polishing i did to the stock trigger after i adjusted it to my liking . be VERY careful of the little ball bearing when removing the stock trigger if you take it off . i ordered a few extra of those and transfer ports to have just in case because i drilled out the stock TP and was afraid i'd tear it up , but i didn't .

Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: WyoMan on October 29, 2019, 05:05:03 PM
Another option to candle wax... get some 4-48" x 1/2" flatheads...

Turn the head a little, then part just beyond the jaw marks:
(https://i.imgur.com/AZa74p8.jpg)

Sits flush to the counter-bore:
(https://i.imgur.com/BzJVi5q.jpg)

I know, it's a screw for a countersink - not a c-bore, but you'll be the only one who knows  ;D

Wyo
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Relentless Holiday on October 29, 2019, 05:32:41 PM
Another option to candle wax... get some 4-48" x 1/2" flatheads...

Turn the head a little, then part just beyond the jaw marks:
(https://i.imgur.com/AZa74p8.jpg)

Sits flush to the counter-bore:
(https://i.imgur.com/BzJVi5q.jpg)

I know, it's a screw for a countersink - not a c-bore, but you'll be the only one who knows  ;D

Wyo

Whoh! a marine 1322 that looks sooooo cool.  Love to see a full brass one ala gold finger..  The frame, tube, barrel.  put some cherry colored wood....mmmmm sweet.

...And thx for the wax/crayon idea.  I was thinking of a bit of ramp work to the screw hole. Much quicker fix
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Bentong on October 29, 2019, 06:05:57 PM
You can also just point the barrel down then drop load your wadcutter pellet.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Relentless Holiday on October 30, 2019, 01:11:44 PM
You can also just point the barrel down then drop load your wadcutter pellet.

Thnx but that was still turning em sideways....hunting black crayons for it. They hang up pretty badly
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: WyoMan on October 31, 2019, 10:06:22 PM
Just fitted another flathead... this time to a steel Crosman breech (arrived today).
Turn the head to .188" and part-off leaving about 1/4" of threads. You can go less on the threads but some extra length helps fat-fingered folks position the screw. Knocked it out in less than 10 minutes.

(https://i.imgur.com/USFr3ZS.jpg)

If you want one, PM me a mailing address-

Wyo
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Lt. Dan on December 13, 2019, 08:46:42 AM
Just fitted another flathead... this time to a steel Crosman breech (arrived today).
Turn the head to .188" and part-off leaving about 1/4" of threads. You can go less on the threads but some extra length helps fat-fingered folks position the screw. Knocked it out in less than 10 minutes.

(https://i.imgur.com/USFr3ZS.jpg)

If you want one, PM me a mailing address-

Wyo
I'm having the same problems with my 1322, where do you get the screws? I have two more steel breechs I need to install.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Tack Driver 10 on December 13, 2019, 11:43:27 AM
All steel breeches are not created equal.

The Disco breech has scope rails the entire length of the breech.
I like that version since it gives more area for the scope rails to attach.
Just has the rear breech screw hole and a recess in the front as pictured.

P/N 1761-019, cost $25.33 (breech only) direct from Crosman.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: JeffB1961 on December 13, 2019, 12:12:35 PM
in your pic the disco breech has the screw hole in the back of the loading slot not the front . wont work on a 13xx .
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Rabbit\Squirrel Killer on December 13, 2019, 04:02:43 PM
All steel breeches are not created equal.

The Disco breech has scope rails the entire length of the breech.
I like that version since it gives more area for the scope rails to attach.
Just has the rear breech screw hole and a recess in the front as pictured.

P/N 1761-019, cost $25.33 (breech only) direct from Crosman.

in your pic the disco breech has the screw hole in the back of the loading slot not the front . wont work on a 13xx .

I just got 5 breech kits from Crosman 3 2240 kits and 2 1377 kits and they all have the front screw hole. I know that I got some in the past that had the rear screw hole like the one in the pic. But I don't know if I bought it as a kit or not, or what the part number is to order the rear hole Crosman breech if I want the LPA sight on it.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: JeffB1961 on December 13, 2019, 06:04:53 PM
IIRC the rear screwed ones fit the 2300kt and the forward screw version fits the 2400kt ... or vise versa .
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Tack Driver 10 on December 13, 2019, 06:12:58 PM
I have a 2400KT that I ordered from the CS and it has the rear breech screw.

I just drill and tap the tube for the 4-48 screw where needed.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Rabbit\Squirrel Killer on December 13, 2019, 07:10:14 PM
I have 4 CS 2400's and yes they have that rear screw hole. I also several guns I put together that have the rear screw hole. I probably bought them off eBay? I am wondering what the Crosman part number would be though.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Tack Driver 10 on December 13, 2019, 07:55:11 PM
I have 4 CS 2400's and yes they have that rear screw hole. I also several guns I put together that have the rear screw hole. I probably bought them off eBay? I am wondering what the Crosman part number would be though.
Quote from BillK:
Where do you want the breech screw to be?  Front or rear location.
The rear location is best for .177 but many/most 13xx air tubes don't have a rear screw location drilled in the tube.
The 22xx tubes have both front & rear location holes drilled & tapped.
AS2250-025... Long steel breech w/rear screw loc.
AS2250-A013..  "        "       "       "/front screw loc.
2300-047... Short steel breech w/rear screw loc.----$27
AS2250-020 is the rear breech plug needed with all steel breeches. 

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=69824.msg664466#msg664466 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=69824.msg664466#msg664466)
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Rabbit\Squirrel Killer on December 13, 2019, 08:39:18 PM
I have 4 CS 2400's and yes they have that rear screw hole. I also several guns I put together that have the rear screw hole. I probably bought them off eBay? I am wondering what the Crosman part number would be though.
Quote from BillK:
Where do you want the breech screw to be?  Front or rear location.
The rear location is best for .177 but many/most 13xx air tubes don't have a rear screw location drilled in the tube.
The 22xx tubes have both front & rear location holes drilled & tapped.
AS2250-025... Long steel breech w/rear screw loc.
AS2250-A013..  "        "       "       "/front screw loc.
2300-047... Short steel breech w/rear screw loc.----$27
AS2250-020 is the rear breech plug needed with all steel breeches. 

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=69824.msg664466#msg664466 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=69824.msg664466#msg664466)

Thanks I added that to my part number document. I had the Benjamin Discovery breech # on it already.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Rick67 on December 13, 2019, 09:27:25 PM
Just fitted another flathead... this time to a steel Crosman breech (arrived today).
Turn the head to .188" and part-off leaving about 1/4" of threads. You can go less on the threads but some extra length helps fat-fingered folks position the screw. Knocked it out in less than 10 minutes.

(https://i.imgur.com/USFr3ZS.jpg)

If you want one, PM me a mailing address-

Wyo
I'm having the same problems with my 1322, where do you get the screws? I have two more steel breechs I need to install.

Don Cothran breeches also come with this kind of screw in stainless.

The Magnum Airpower stainless Torx screw won't work on Don Cothran breeches--probably it will if you reduce the screw head's diameter.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: JaRoHe on December 16, 2019, 04:39:22 PM
Just received my 1300KT... (TO SAY THAT I'M DISAPPOINTED WITH THE WAY PELLETS LOAD INTO THE BREECH WOULD BE AN UNDERSTATEMENT... 90% OF THE TIME THE PELLET EITHER TUMBLES IN SIDEWAYS OR CATCHES ON THE NOSE OF THE PELLET AND JAMS). Doesn't seem to matter whether domed, hollow point, or wadcutters... nothing loads worth a darn!!!  I couldn't comfortably take this anywhere without carrying a dowel rod to dislodge jammed pellets...

I sure as *(&^ don't want to void the warranty by melting crayons into the breech... not that it wouldn't work.  Do you suppose Crosman would suggest this as a solution to correct the issue... maybe they ought to melt crayons into the breech before they ship them???

This appears to be a faulty design on Crosmans part... I would have thought that an issue like this would have been corrected long ago (seeing how so many people seem to have the same issue).

I have a 1377 Classic (bone-stock)... and while not the easiest to load, it doesn't have near the issue that the 1300KT w/steel breech does.

This is clearly an unacceptable issue that needs to go back to the drawing board and corrected... this model should be discontinued until corrected, and a recall should be in order.

From my experience, I would not (could not) recommend the 1300KT in .177 caliber to anyone if this is the standard condition for this model.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Jonah on December 17, 2019, 07:26:54 AM
Try the melted wax.  It won't hurt anything nor do I believe it would void the warranty.  You really haven't modified the gun.  Besides, the melted wax would not be too hard to remove.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: Moke on December 17, 2019, 09:14:19 AM
I load the pellet on to, or in front of, the breech screw, and then tap it in with my finger. No hangup, no binding.
I plan on using the black crayon mod when I mount an upgraded breech.

And I should shutup now, as I've only dealt with the 1322 breech, not a 1377.

You think the Crosman breech bind is bad? Try a Beeman Chief, and its air passage within the breech, and watch the pellets spiral down range. That air passage distorts the pellets if you're not really careful in loading them, and causes misflights.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: anti-squirrel on December 18, 2019, 11:26:12 PM
I have a pile of various Crosman Lego and have always tilted the gun down just out of habit.  I shoot wayyyy too many wadcutters, especially the RWS Meisterkugeln wadcutters.  Saying Crosman need to recall and discontinue until fixed is a bit over the top, IMO.

I prefer the rear breech mount, but on one of my various Lego guns I used JB Weld and just filled the hole up front.  Decidedly more permanent than wax but the pellet-tipping problem certainly went away!
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: moorepower on December 21, 2019, 11:41:35 AM
Melting wax is not going to void your warranty. The only way to perfect would be to sell two breaches. I have been thinking about turning down the bolt and gluing in a bit of brass tubing that has been split for a loading ramp. Using the rear screw breach is the best solution, as all it takes is drilling and tapping the rear hole. Making two different breaches would add a quite a bit to the price of the breaches.
Title: Re: 13xx steel breech question. Need several responces PLEASE. S.O.S.
Post by: rocks on January 19, 2020, 05:16:36 PM
yes 1377 and 2240 same breech as i notice this myself as the probe was taped for a different bolt they sent me another probe