GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: UCChris on October 22, 2019, 08:17:45 PM
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Here's a gallery of what the .177 Hatsan Flash hammer looks like: https://imgur.com/a/Nn9TDou
It weighs just over 63.5 grams and, unfortunately, I don't think I can find a way to lighten it enough to really matter. I doubt I'll find anyone that wants to make an MDS hammer for this, so I'm left to less conventional methods. With the HST as low as possible and the hammer spring shim removed, I am seeing 10.34 JSB @ 815 fps, reg set at 120 bar/1750 psi. I can tell you that, with the same hammer spring settings, the gun will get valve lock at 3000 psi. My thought is that I could potentially set the reg around 2500 psi and see if that will give me a semi-valve locked shot on the reg. I don't know how that will effect consistency, but with the regulator keeping the valve psi at the same, I don't see why it wouldn't be consistent. I wouldn't get very many shots, but the whole point of this gun is to make it as silent as possible.
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Here's a gallery of what the .177 Hatsan Flash hammer looks like: https://imgur.com/a/Nn9TDou
It weighs just over 63.5 grams and, unfortunately, I don't think I can find a way to lighten it enough to really matter. I doubt I'll find anyone that wants to make an MDS hammer for this, so I'm left to less conventional methods. With the HST as low as possible and the hammer spring shim removed, I am seeing 10.34 JSB @ 815 fps, reg set at 120 bar/1750 psi. I can tell you that, with the same hammer spring settings, the gun will get valve lock at 3000 psi. My thought is that I could potentially set the reg around 2500 psi and see if that will give me a semi-valve locked shot on the reg. I don't know how that will effect consistency, but with the regulator keeping the valve psi at the same, I don't see why it wouldn't be consistent. I wouldn't get very many shots, but the whole point of this gun is to make it as silent as possible.
I'd try turning the reg up to 130-140 bar. That will help. I wouldn't turn it up to 170 bar. Your consistency would go out the window. You could also change out the hammer spring, or cut a couple of coils off. I certainly like your thought process of faster valve closing, the quieter the gun. A well tuned gun is always quieter than one that wastes air. Another thing you can do is open up the valve seat to 3/16 or slightly larger. The larger opening will make the valve close faster, but I don't know if you want to go that far with it(I do it on all my guns). I think your bigger limiting factor is the QE. You may want to remove it and put an aftermarket LDC on there. The factory barrel is threaded, so adding an LDC is as simple as removing the QE and screwing on the LDC. The QE on the newer guns just isn't as effective as it used to be, because Hatsan started making the holes in the baffles way larger than needed. There are some folks selling replacement baffles for the QE that some people have been happy with.
At the power level you're shooting, the gun shouldn't be that loud, but you can always make it quieter. The NC LDCs are tops in quietness in my opinion. Many people like the Donnyfl LDCs, but the NC is better to my ears. There are many other good ones too, like Huggett, 0db, Trident, and even Huma makes some now. Rocker1 also makes a good LDC that won't break the bank. You could also order an adapter(from Donnyfl or ebay) that screws onto the end of your QE and add an LDC onto it. I have a NC on my Flash .177 and it is insanely quiet at the 17-18fpe it is currently tuned for. It is also pretty quiet at 40fpe as well :D
If you are shooting in an enclosed space, the gun will seem much louder, than if you are outside. Get a friend to shoot it with you standing beside them outdoors, and you'll get a real representation of how loud it really is.
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< looks at pictures of the hammer > Ugh, yeah I don't think I can help you with that one.
I think Donny's advice is good. Both points about operating at partial valve lock are valid--it's quiet but the ES suffers--so it's a bad tradeoff unless you are keeping your shots inside of 30 yards or so. That's just an educated guess. It will depend on how consistent the hammer strike is (subtle differences in friction or sear drag) and how well the regulator maintains a precise setpoint.
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I'd try turning the reg up to 130-140 bar. That will help. I wouldn't turn it up to 170 bar. Your consistency would go out the window. You could also change out the hammer spring, or cut a couple of coils off. I certainly like your thought process of faster valve closing, the quieter the gun. A well tuned gun is always quieter than one that wastes air. Another thing you can do is open up the valve seat to 3/16 or slightly larger. The larger opening will make the valve close faster, but I don't know if you want to go that far with it(I do it on all my guns). I think your bigger limiting factor is the QE. You may want to remove it and put an aftermarket LDC on there. The factory barrel is threaded, so adding an LDC is as simple as removing the QE and screwing on the LDC. The QE on the newer guns just isn't as effective as it used to be, because Hatsan started making the holes in the baffles way larger than needed. There are some folks selling replacement baffles for the QE that some people have been happy with.
At the power level you're shooting, the gun shouldn't be that loud, but you can always make it quieter. The NC LDCs are tops in quietness in my opinion. Many people like the Donnyfl LDCs, but the NC is better to my ears. There are many other good ones too, like Huggett, 0db, Trident, and even Huma makes some now. Rocker1 also makes a good LDC that won't break the bank. You could also order an adapter(from Donnyfl or ebay) that screws onto the end of your QE and add an LDC onto it. I have a NC on my Flash .177 and it is insanely quiet at the 17-18fpe it is currently tuned for. It is also pretty quiet at 40fpe as well :D
If you are shooting in an enclosed space, the gun will seem much louder, than if you are outside. Get a friend to shoot it with you standing beside them outdoors, and you'll get a real representation of how loud it really is.
Thanks for the input man, super helpful. I was getting a weird ES, even with the regulator, so I did some digging. I had the HS screw all the way in, so the locking grub screw was actually sticking out past the HS screw. So the HS was sitting unevenly on the grub screw on one side. If that makes any sense...
Anyway, I pulled the grub screw out and tightened the HS screw down real tight. I'm getting 750 fps with the 10.34 JSB and it's really quiet, but I know it's possible to make it even a bit quieter. I am using a DonnyFL Ronin on it, so I've already gone the aftermarket LDC route. It's really, really quiet, but I am chasing the quietest possible, which may be silly. I'll bump it to 140 bar and start clipping springs if it's shooting hotter than I want.
< looks at pictures of the hammer > Ugh, yeah I don't think I can help you with that one.
I think Donny's advice is good. Both points about operating at partial valve lock are valid--it's quiet but the ES suffers--so it's a bad tradeoff unless you are keeping your shots inside of 30 yards or so. That's just an educated guess. It will depend on how consistent the hammer strike is (subtle differences in friction or sear drag) and how well the regulator maintains a precise setpoint.
Yeah, I pulled the hammer out and I was like, "Well, bleepity bleep."
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Man, that is one poorly machined hammer! Yep, hatsan is getting worse and worse with their machine work. they may be fine to look at on the outside,but inside, virtual junk! Yet the prices are not what you should be paying for such sloppy work. Grrrrr!!!
Yes, it can be easily lightened. First, how deep down the hole in the hammer that captures the spring go. Probably plenty of roon to extend it. If the depth needs to be kept where it is, use peek or delrin rod as an insert to fill what is drilled out.
More importantly, I see no air channel that should be there to allow air go escape from in front of the hammer when it is released and traveling toward the valve pin. The air will act as a cushion and cause erratic valve hits. As a side benefit, weight is decreased as well when doing it.
Anyone with a drill press can do the work on deepening the spring guide hole in the hammer. Anyone with a Mill can cut channels in the hammer.
If no machinist is avaliable too you, Knifemaker is always around. and I don't' charge for it. I simply enjoy working on ag's. ;)
and unlike that workmanship shown in the link to the hammer, you won't get a sickening feeling in the pit of your stomach when you see it. Nothing leaves my shop before it is both right, and looks just as right! 8)
Knife
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With your current settings, are you tuned above the knee? Below the knee? What does your shot string look like? If you are experiencing valve lock at 3k which I imagine is your max fill, you have to have slow first shots in your string. That is a jacked up tune. I think you may be approaching the quiet gun from the wrong direction. Tune it for peak efficiency first. Efficient guns make the most out of any quieting device. Then have someone else shoot it like Rallyshark said. That abomination of a hammer right next to your ear might have you thinking the gun is louder that it really is.
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Man, that is one poorly machined hammer! Yep, hatsan is getting worse and worse with their machine work. they may be fine to look at on the outside,but inside, virtual junk! Yet the prices are not what you should be paying for such sloppy work. Grrrrr!!!
Yes, it can be easily lightened. First, how deep down the hole in the hammer that captures the spring go. Probably plenty of roon to extend it. If the depth needs to be kept where it is, use peek or delrin rod as an insert to fill what is drilled out.
More importantly, I see no air channel that should be there to allow air go escape from in front of the hammer when it is released and traveling toward the valve pin. The air will act as a cushion and cause erratic valve hits. As a side benefit, weight is decreased as well when doing it.
Anyone with a drill press can do the work on deepening the spring guide hole in the hammer. Anyone with a Mill can cut channels in the hammer.
If no machinist is avaliable too you, Knifemaker is always around. and I don't' charge for it. I simply enjoy working on ag's. ;)
and unlike that workmanship shown in the link to the hammer, you won't get a sickening feeling in the pit of your stomach when you see it. Nothing leaves my shop before it is both right, and looks just as right! 8)
Knife
Yeah, this is what the hammer looks like after I chucked it up in a drill and spun it with some 1000 grit wrapped around it.
I really appreciate the input! The hole goes to 1/8" behind the little shoulder on the front of the hammer. There's about 1/4" of metal thickness where the hammer strikes the valve stem.
I would be happy to ship the hammer off to you to see what you can do to it. I don't have machine tools yet nor do I know anyone who does. However, I won't let you do it for free. We can come to an agreement.
With your current settings, are you tuned above the knee? Below the knee? What does your shot string look like? If you are experiencing valve lock at 3k which I imagine is your max fill, you have to have slow first shots in your string. That is a jacked up tune. I think you may be approaching the quiet gun from the wrong direction. Tune it for peak efficiency first. Efficient guns make the most out of any quieting device. Then have someone else shoot it like Rallyshark said. That abomination of a hammer right next to your ear might have you thinking the gun is louder that it really is.
I am wayyy below the knee. My goal is to use tiny sips of high pressure to get the quietest gun possible. This gun will do 22 fpe at my current reg pressure setting.
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If I was going to lighten that hammer I would take weight off it the way you take weight off a crankshaft when you balance it. You don’t drill a hole you just drill in a little. Instead of killing drill bits on a hardened hammer, I would heat the back half cherry red and let it cool. That will take out the hardness. I’m not sure where your sear makes contact with the hammer but if it’s up front, you might be able to get away without hardening the whole hammer again. And you can test it as you take off weight. After you are happy with the weight I would harden and temper it again if necessary, then polish it.
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If I was going to lighten that hammer I would take weight off it the way you take weight off a crankshaft when you balance it. You don’t drill a hole you just drill in a little. Instead of killing drill bits on a hardened hammer, I would heat the back half cherry red and let it cool. That will take out the hardness. I’m not sure where your sear makes contact with the hammer but if it’s up front, you might be able to get away without hardening the whole hammer again. And you can test it as you take off weight. After you are happy with the weight I would harden and temper it again if necessary, then polish it.
I see what you're saying, but I don't know that I'll be able to get any significant weight off doing that. I would assume that I would need to get around 1/4 of the weight off to see any real benefits.
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Unlike some...and likely because I'm not looking for max-power, just getting as much as I can from a goal power...have noticed even a 15-20% change in weight (lets say from 58grams to 48ish).
But I don't see an easy way to reduce that one (and by the way...that's a pretty rough machined striker....are variations I suppose, with some nicer than others, but that one is corn-cob rough). HAve had the Flash Pup's fully apart once...nothing looked nearly that rough.
Mistake #1 would be to lathe it/smooth it all down to polished bright to a dead even surface as that would make the striker significantly smaller. Would then be a "rattle fit" in the tube, which would do nothing good for consistency (variable contact/friction) or sear release (variable sear engagement). Would be trading a rough striker for a loose fitting striker...pretty much an even trade.
Wouldn't hurt to polish the high spots...not enough reduction in diameter to matter, and the high spots are the only ones in contact with the air tube, so would be the only real friction makers.
Can swear that they were not all like that one...although I suspect none of them were the pretty-bright polish some folks want to see.
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Unlike some...and likely because I'm not looking for max-power, just getting as much as I can from a goal power...have noticed even a 15-20% change in weight (lets say from 58grams to 48ish).
But I don't see an easy way to reduce that one (and by the way...that's a pretty rough machined striker....are variations I suppose, with some nicer than others, but that one is corn-cob rough). HAve had the Flash Pup's fully apart once...nothing looked nearly that rough.
Mistake #1 would be to lathe it/smooth it all down to polished bright to a dead even surface as that would make the striker significantly smaller. Would then be a "rattle fit" in the tube, which would do nothing good for consistency (variable contact/friction) or sear release (variable sear engagement). Would be trading a rough striker for a loose fitting striker...pretty much an even trade.
Wouldn't hurt to polish the high spots...not enough reduction in diameter to matter, and the high spots are the only ones in contact with the air tube, so would be the only real friction makers.
Can swear that they were not all like that one...although I suspect none of them were the pretty-bright polish some folks want to see.
Thanks for the input, as I am not going for max power either. *(&^, I would be going for 12 fpe if this gun shot the 8.44 worth a "dang". Unfortunately, they shotgun, while the 10.34 stack on top of each other. Odd, but whatever. That being said, I am happy with the 10.34 shooting somewhere between 750 and 800 fps. This is a gun that will only be used out to 30 yards and is being purpose built for a very stealthy purpose, hence the ridiculousness of trying to get it as silent as possible.
The hammer as you see it is after I've already spun it up on a drill and polished the high spots. It was real awful out of the box, which is odd because the rest of the gun actually looks really good. The probe and cocking lug both look great. Just got the Friday afternoon hammer I guess.
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Well I do think you could get 25% out but admittedly probably not a whole lot more. And I bet you could pull it off with a $20 propane torch*. However if the idea of having to re-harden it is a bridge too far, here’s a twist to consider. Just heat the whole thing cherry red to anneal it, then drill out the nose and tap it for a grade 8 (SAE) or grade 12.9 (metric) grub screw. Grind/file/sand the tip flat and that becomes the part that takes the impact with the valve stem.
The other upside is you now have an adjustable striker. On a regulated setup, it’s not as beneficial as if it were a traditional PCP, but it might still come in handy for making fine adjustments to the tune…especially if you can fashion a through hole to reach in and adjust it from outside. That feature has been really useful on my B51, for example.
*such as https://www.walmart.com/ip/BERNZOMATIC-330923-Pencil-Flame-Torch-Kit-2-Piece/295966342 (https://www.walmart.com/ip/BERNZOMATIC-330923-Pencil-Flame-Torch-Kit-2-Piece/295966342)
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If it is tool steel, yes, cherry red will do it. If ss, no. If heatreatable ss, It has to be brought up to critical and the temp dropped 100 deg per hour until under 900-975 deg from 1875 to 1950 deg.
If like the evenix hammers, it is only case hardened. Much work on it will destroy the hard shell. However, using micro grain carbide end mills, you can work it just fine in its hardened state. Luckily I have the equipment to do just about anything needed with any of these metals. Including the heat treating furnace.
For smooth hammer, with little friction, nothing beats the f-i-r-t-h system, Where nylon, delrin, or teflon buttons are placed in the front shoulder and rear of a hammer. It glides effortlessly, and it will not damage the ture or mono block it rides in. Even over years of use. But it does take some work and fitting. ;)
Knife
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Well I do think you could get 25% out but admittedly probably not a whole lot more. And I bet you could pull it off with a $20 propane torch*. However if the idea of having to re-harden it is a bridge too far, here’s a twist to consider. Just heat the whole thing cherry red to anneal it, then drill out the nose and tap it for a grade 8 (SAE) or grade 12.9 (metric) grub screw. Grind/file/sand the tip flat and that becomes the part that takes the impact with the valve stem.
The other upside is you now have an adjustable striker. On a regulated setup, it’s not as beneficial as if it were a traditional PCP, but it might still come in handy for making fine adjustments to the tune…especially if you can fashion a through hole to reach in and adjust it from outside. That feature has been really useful on my B51, for example.
*such as https://www.walmart.com/ip/BERNZOMATIC-330923-Pencil-Flame-Torch-Kit-2-Piece/295966342 (https://www.walmart.com/ip/BERNZOMATIC-330923-Pencil-Flame-Torch-Kit-2-Piece/295966342)
See, if this was a Crosman part or some other brand where I had confidence I could get a replacement part if I screwed it up, I'd go for it. That being said, I don't have any confidence I can get a replacement from Hatsan at all, so it's been shipped off to Knifemaker with a few bucks to compensate him with a six pack or something.
If it is tool steel, yes, cherry red will do it. If ss, no. If heatreatable ss, It has to be brought up to critical and the temp dropped 100 deg per hour until under 900-975 deg from 1875 to 1950 deg.
If like the evenix hammers, it is only case hardened. Much work on it will destroy the hard shell. However, using micro grain carbide end mills, you can work it just fine in its hardened state. Luckily I have the equipment to do just about anything needed with any of these metals. Including the heat treating furnace.
For smooth hammer, with little friction, nothing beats the f-i-r-t-h system, Where nylon, delrin, or teflon buttons are placed in the front shoulder and rear of a hammer. It glides effortlessly, and it will not damage the ture or mono block it rides in. Even over years of use. But it does take some work and fitting. ;)
Knife
Package is on it's way with a few bucks. Can't wait to see what you come up with!
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im in the process of adding peek to my flash hammer, also trying to get really quiet. haven't read this yet so tagging for later :)
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I put a Peek striker in the RS II and it has held up to thousands of slug shoots. I like it.
One other way to lighten a hammer that I did not mention. , is to wasp waste the hammer. Concave the center section, where only the front and back of the hammer ride the tube. Much lighter and much less friction.
Adding a peek stiker will lose a little weight as well. It add up in the long run.
Knife
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UCCHris, I actually just asked hatsan last week if they have hammers instock for the flash and they do at $19.99
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Yep, the photos on imgur look exactly like my Flash. You gotta love those lube grooves, lol.
😋
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UCCHris, I actually just asked hatsan last week if they have hammers instock for the flash and they do at $19.99
That's good to know. Thank you!
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Nice! You cant get anything for the Evanix guns now. and even if you could, the shipping is unreal!
good to know the hammer is so low cost. Now I can afford to screw up!
LOL!!! Just kidd'n I'll treat it like it was gold. ;)
Knife
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Nice! You cant get anything for the Evanix guns now. and even if you could, the shipping is unreal!
good to know the hammer is so low cost. Now I can afford to screw up!
LOL!!! Just kidd'n I'll treat it like it was gold. ;)
Knife
Lol. Have at it!
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Following to keep up with Knife's progress on modifying the flash hammer for UCChris. I might send him my 25 cal hammer if it turn out good.
BD
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Excited to see photos of progress!
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I guess I got lucky with the hammer in mine that showed up yesterday, but I'll certainly take it. The machining on this gun is better than that of my .177 Flash for sure!
I'm sure Mr. Knife will get that hammer cleaned up real nice on yours though :)
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Wow Donny! That is light years ahead of my hammer!
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It is better than the hammer in my regular Flash as well. I guess this gun got made in the middle of the week,lol.
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Man, that is hugely better Donny! I it also a Flash hammer?
Knife
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I'm heading out to the shop to get started on it after talking to Chris on the phone. High hopes for it!
I work late at night. Cooler in the summer Texas heat, and no interruptions even now with this cold wave that blew in. GRRRR+Brrrrr!!!
Being a Central Texan, I hate anything under 72 deg. ;D
Knife
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I'm heading out to the shop to get started on it after talking to Chris on the phone. High hopes for it!
I work late at night. Cooler in the summer Texas heat, and no interruptions even now with this cold wave that blew in. GRRRR+Brrrrr!!!
Being a Central Texan, I hate anything under 72 deg. ;D
Knife
Mike is an amazing guy! We was extremely fun to talk shop with! I'm so excited to see what he can do!
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I'm heading out to the shop to get started on it after talking to Chris on the phone. High hopes for it!
I work late at night. Cooler in the summer Texas heat, and no interruptions even now with this cold wave that blew in. GRRRR+Brrrrr!!!
Being a Central Texan, I hate anything under 72 deg. ;D
Knife
I agree and dislike anything above 80 degrees or below 60 myself. My problem is I have a hard time breathing when working above 80 and cant move fast enough to stay warm below 60. Oh well at least I am still above ground.
I am eagerly anticipating your redo of Chris's hammer to see the ugly duckling turned into a swan.
BD
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I'm heading out to the shop to get started on it after talking to Chris on the phone. High hopes for it!
I work late at night. Cooler in the summer Texas heat, and no interruptions even now with this cold wave that blew in. GRRRR+Brrrrr!!!
Being a Central Texan, I hate anything under 72 deg. ;D
Knife
I agree and dislike anything above 80 degrees or below 60 myself. My problem is I have a hard time breathing when working above 80 and cant move fast enough to stay warm below 60. Oh well at least I am still above ground.
I am eagerly anticipating your redo of Chris's hammer to see the ugly duckling turned into a swan.
BD
Man, my happy temp range is 40-65!
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I'm heading out to the shop to get started on it after talking to Chris on the phone. High hopes for it!
I work late at night. Cooler in the summer Texas heat, and no interruptions even now with this cold wave that blew in. GRRRR+Brrrrr!!!
Being a Central Texan, I hate anything under 72 deg. ;D
Knife
I agree and dislike anything above 80 degrees or below 60 myself. My problem is I have a hard time breathing when working above 80 and cant move fast enough to stay warm below 60. Oh well at least I am still above ground.
I am eagerly anticipating your redo of Chris's hammer to see the ugly duckling turned into a swan.
BD
Man, my happy temp range is 40-65!
You must still have plenty of antifreeze in your blood so its nice and thick to slow the heat loss. ;D ;D Us old geezers got no antifreeze left so our blood is like water and sheds heat faster than we can make it. LOL
BD
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Man, that is hugely better Donny! I it also a Flash hammer?
Knife
Surprisingly, yes it is a Flash hammer! It is straight out of a new gun. I didn't expect this gun to be machined as well as it is. It is night and day difference with my regular Flash on all parts. This new one is going to require a lot less effort to get all the bits moving freely inside :D
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Mike, here's the pics showing that rear hammer latch on the cocking lug.
http://imgur.com/a/jvzR3Tq (http://imgur.com/a/jvzR3Tq)
Hope the wind didn't blow you away last night!
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Chris, your package came marked Archery. Are you involved with an Archery Shop? I part owned one for years in Killeen Texas. X-it archery. Good times! But I still miss making the Knives the most.
I am sending you an email in PM, I'll send pic's of what I use to do.
Here a few really lousy pic's of your hammer. Hope you can take better pic's than mine!
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No pic came thru on the latch Chris. Got her lighter than expected. very easy to add weight now. She is 51 grams. So MUCH better than we expected.
I will include button material for the firth system. They wear after a few thousand rounds I guess. mine never have so far. Many thousands of shots at high fpe.
I subbed the Peek with Delrin, the harder Delrin type for bearings. It will be quieter than the peek as it is a little softer and quieter. And you said you wanted QUIET!!! Did I just yell Quiet?
I can seen more any time. Mine has the Peek, but I shoot at 80-90+ fpe with it. And you can sure still hear the hammer slap.
Enjoyed working on it. Started at midnight aad finished at 11. am. Good to be in the Shop! 8)
Mike/Knife
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I'm heading out to the shop to get started on it after talking to Chris on the phone. High hopes for it!
I work late at night. Cooler in the summer Texas heat, and no interruptions even now with this cold wave that blew in. GRRRR+Brrrrr!!!
Being a Central Texan, I hate anything under 72 deg. ;D
Knife
I agree and dislike anything above 80 degrees or below 60 myself. My problem is I have a hard time breathing when working above 80 and cant move fast enough to stay warm below 60. Oh well at least I am still above ground.
I am eagerly anticipating your redo of Chris's hammer to see the ugly duckling turned into a swan.
BD
Ain't it the truth Mike, Ain't it the Truth! :(
Knife/Mike
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Maybe these pics will go through?
(https://i.imgur.com/JEYHZIP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Bz6GJs0.jpg)
That hammer looks amazing! Holy &^^&!
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It kinda looks a little different. LOL! It should really save wear and tear on the channel it rides in.
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Wow Mike, that looks awesome!
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Thanks Donny! 8)
Mike
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I'm unbelievably excited to see what happens!
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I'm heading out to the shop to get started on it after talking to Chris on the phone. High hopes for it!
I work late at night. Cooler in the summer Texas heat, and no interruptions even now with this cold wave that blew in. GRRRR+Brrrrr!!!
Being a Central Texan, I hate anything under 72 deg. ;D
Knife
I agree and dislike anything above 80 degrees or below 60 myself. My problem is I have a hard time breathing when working above 80 and cant move fast enough to stay warm below 60. Oh well at least I am still above ground.
I am eagerly anticipating your redo of Chris's hammer to see the ugly duckling turned into a swan.
BD
Ain't it the truth Mike, Ain't it the Truth! :(
Knife/Mike
Yep got to agree for sure.
That hammer sure doesn't look like what he sent you at all. Looks like a piece of jewelry that could be worn on a chain around the neck.
Superb work indeed.
BD
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I'm heading out to the shop to get started on it after talking to Chris on the phone. High hopes for it!
I work late at night. Cooler in the summer Texas heat, and no interruptions even now with this cold wave that blew in. GRRRR+Brrrrr!!!
Being a Central Texan, I hate anything under 72 deg. ;D
Knife
I agree and dislike anything above 80 degrees or below 60 myself. My problem is I have a hard time breathing when working above 80 and cant move fast enough to stay warm below 60. Oh well at least I am still above ground.
I am eagerly anticipating your redo of Chris's hammer to see the ugly duckling turned into a swan.
BD
Ain't it the truth Mike, Ain't it the Truth! :(
Knife/Mike
Yep got to agree for sure.
That hammer sure doesn't look like what he sent you at all. Looks like a piece of jewelry that could be worn on a chain around the neck.
Superb work indeed.
BD
Thanks BD!
Mike/Knife
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Quality work is a rare commodity these day IMO. Its nice to see some still have high standards that they live and work by.
I have always worked with the ethic if its does not meet my high standards then it will not be leave my possession until it does met that standard. If you don't have time to do it right the first time when will you have time to do it right the second time when its likely going to be free. So with you being free from the start makes it even more commendable indeed.
BD
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:o dayum!
That is one beautiful hammer! im jealous lol
Heres a pic of mine straight outta the gun, it doesnt look too bad.
(https://i.imgur.com/fwsJM11.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3H2bL3S.jpg)
Knife, how deep did you drill into the hammer to add the Delrin? I think there's only about 1/4'' of steel before the spring hole on the other side which makes me nervous. Or do you drill all the way through it?
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Chris
Can't wait to hear the results on your Super Stealth project. No wonder Knife is recognized as a world-renowned craftsman.
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Chris
Can't wait to hear the results on your Super Stealth project. No wonder Knife is recognized as a world-renowned craftsman.
I'm really excited! I'm going to see what just the hammer weight reduction does, but I'm also going to install a PEEK valve seat for HST reduction and faster valve dwell. Then I'll probably use that in conjunction with a Cobra tube in the valve.
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I use peek for the valve poppet. works well. It harder to get to seal than Delrin, but worth it. At your power level, or where you want to be, maybe I should have done the valve stem poppet at the same time. GRRRR!!!
and thank you for the compliments guys. The work is just what I do. Sure wish I wasn't retired. I dream about it every night Sure is a letdown when I awake and am faced with reality. :(
But then I have the time for Airgun experiments, bullet experiments and lots and lots of shooting. At least 200+ slugs down range everyday when home and weather permits. 200 down range is usually just a good starting point. Man I enjoy it!!! 8)
Knife/Mike
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I use peek for the valve poppet. works well. It harder to get to seal than Delrin, but worth it. At your power level, or where you want to be, maybe I should have done the valve stem poppet at the same time. GRRRR!!!
and thank you for the compliments guys. The work is just what I do. Sure wish I wasn't retired. I dream about it every night Sure is a letdown when I awake and am faced with reality. :(
But then I have the time for Airgun experiments, bullet experiments and lots and lots of shooting. At least 200+ slugs down range everyday when home and weather permits. 200 down range is usually just a good starting point. Man I enjoy it!!! 8)
Knife/Mike
Mike
I have mixed feelings about being disabled/retired with regards to being a mechanic all my life in auto dealerships until 1998 when I got my dream job at Harley at the Talladega test facility next to Talladega superspeedway. I was a durability research and development mechanic so I kept the fleet of durability bikes up and running for the riders to test on public roads at first and eventually moving to inside the speedway exclusively due to rider involved accidents on the public roads from non aware car drivers. In 09 Harley decided to close TTF and move all testing to Arizona to the old Ford proving grounds in Yucca so I was laid off and had to go back to working on autos. Then in 2013 my health took a dive and I was no longer able to do the heavy work required to repair cars and became disabled. I can say this for certain if Harley was still operating TTF I would have never applied for disability since they would have found a position I was still capable of doing within my limitations. It was one of those dream jobs where you get paid very well to play at work everyday. I have been around the super speedway on bikes so many times that the thrill of it had diminished from an ear to ear grin to just a big smile every time I had to test ride a bike on the speedway to confirm the repairs were completed. My very first trip around the high bank was at 2am with only the headlight to show me the track at WFO which at that time was about 105 mph to confirm a high speed misfire was corrected. The speedway has no lighting still to this day. Caution laps in the races are 90mph just to keep the cars up on the banking, motorcycles must be doing over 60mph to just begin to lean over on the banking so on a dresser anything 60mph or below the right floorboard and muffler are dragging the asphalt and the right end of the handlebar is 2 inches from the asphalt. Man I miss that job for sure. I helped develop the now defunct V-rod from ground zero of testing.
BD
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Looks completely different excellent work as always Mike.
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I use peek for the valve poppet. works well. It harder to get to seal than Delrin, but worth it. At your power level, or where you want to be, maybe I should have done the valve stem poppet at the same time. GRRRR!!!
and thank you for the compliments guys. The work is just what I do. Sure wish I wasn't retired. I dream about it every night Sure is a letdown when I awake and am faced with reality. :(
But then I have the time for Airgun experiments, bullet experiments and lots and lots of shooting. At least 200+ slugs down range everyday when home and weather permits. 200 down range is usually just a good starting point. Man I enjoy it!!! 8)
Knife/Mike
Mike
I have mixed feelings about being disabled/retired with regards to being a mechanic all my life in auto dealerships until 1998 when I got my dream job at Harley at the Talladega test facility next to Talladega superspeedway. I was a durability research and development mechanic so I kept the fleet of durability bikes up and running for the riders to test on public roads at first and eventually moving to inside the speedway exclusively due to rider involved accidents on the public roads from non aware car drivers. In 09 Harley decided to close TTF and move all testing to Arizona to the old Ford proving grounds in Yucca so I was laid off and had to go back to working on autos. Then in 2013 my health took a dive and I was no longer able to do the heavy work required to repair cars and became disabled. I can say this for certain if Harley was still operating TTF I would have never applied for disability since they would have found a position I was still capable of doing within my limitations. It was one of those dream jobs where you get paid very well to play at work everyday. I have been around the super speedway on bikes so many times that the thrill of it had diminished from an ear to ear grin to just a big smile every time I had to test ride a bike on the speedway to confirm the repairs were completed. My very first trip around the high bank was at 2am with only the headlight to show me the track at WFO which at that time was about 105 mph to confirm a high speed misfire was corrected. The speedway has no lighting still to this day. Caution laps in the races are 90mph just to keep the cars up on the banking, motorcycles must be doing over 60mph to just begin to lean over on the banking so on a dresser anything 60mph or below the right floorboard and muffler are dragging the asphalt and the right end of the handlebar is 2 inches from the asphalt. Man I miss that job for sure. I helped develop the now defunct V-rod from ground zero of testing.
BD
Sounds like a dream job for sure!
My wife and I were selected by K.Cc Jones and his wife to campaign one of their Jet dragsters. I was to go to Pomona I believe to test and obtain my Jet Car License. However, my business took off, and oine of their good friends hand an accident in his dragster, and already had his license.
300 MH sure seemed like a sweet way to make a living! Well, except being on the road most of the year.
Google K.C. Jones Cannon Ball Express Jet Dragster.
Sounds like were both kinda speed freaks! LOL!!!
We did campaign the Mr. 5.0 Dare car for a while until the expense became unbearable. Miss it!
I've been in Texas for 40 years now, but grew up very close to the speedway. Much more beautiful country there than here for sure!
Knife/Mike
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Thanks Matt! ;)
Knife/Mike
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I use peek for the valve poppet. works well. It harder to get to seal than Delrin, but worth it. At your power level, or where you want to be, maybe I should have done the valve stem poppet at the same time. GRRRR!!!
and thank you for the compliments guys. The work is just what I do. Sure wish I wasn't retired. I dream about it every night Sure is a letdown when I awake and am faced with reality. :(
But then I have the time for Airgun experiments, bullet experiments and lots and lots of shooting. At least 200+ slugs down range everyday when home and weather permits. 200 down range is usually just a good starting point. Man I enjoy it!!! 8)
Knife/Mike
Mike
I have mixed feelings about being disabled/retired with regards to being a mechanic all my life in auto dealerships until 1998 when I got my dream job at Harley at the Talladega test facility next to Talladega superspeedway. I was a durability research and development mechanic so I kept the fleet of durability bikes up and running for the riders to test on public roads at first and eventually moving to inside the speedway exclusively due to rider involved accidents on the public roads from non aware car drivers. In 09 Harley decided to close TTF and move all testing to Arizona to the old Ford proving grounds in Yucca so I was laid off and had to go back to working on autos. Then in 2013 my health took a dive and I was no longer able to do the heavy work required to repair cars and became disabled. I can say this for certain if Harley was still operating TTF I would have never applied for disability since they would have found a position I was still capable of doing within my limitations. It was one of those dream jobs where you get paid very well to play at work everyday. I have been around the super speedway on bikes so many times that the thrill of it had diminished from an ear to ear grin to just a big smile every time I had to test ride a bike on the speedway to confirm the repairs were completed. My very first trip around the high bank was at 2am with only the headlight to show me the track at WFO which at that time was about 105 mph to confirm a high speed misfire was corrected. The speedway has no lighting still to this day. Caution laps in the races are 90mph just to keep the cars up on the banking, motorcycles must be doing over 60mph to just begin to lean over on the banking so on a dresser anything 60mph or below the right floorboard and muffler are dragging the asphalt and the right end of the handlebar is 2 inches from the asphalt. Man I miss that job for sure. I helped develop the now defunct V-rod from ground zero of testing.
BD
Sounds like a dream job for sure!
My wife and I were selected by K.Cc Jones and his wife to campaign one of their Jet dragsters. I was to go to Pomona I believe to test and obtain my Jet Car License. However, my business took off, and oine of their good friends hand an accident in his dragster, and already had his license.
300 MH sure seemed like a sweet way to make a living! Well, except being on the road most of the year.
Google K.C. Jones Cannon Ball Express Jet Dragster.
Sounds like were both kinda speed freaks! LOL!!!
We did campaign the Mr. 5.0 Dare car for a while until the expense became unbearable. Miss it!
I've been in Texas for 40 years now, but grew up very close to the speedway. Much more beautiful country there than here for sure!
Knife/Mike
No need to google KC Jones seen the car run in person several times in Gainesville, FL at the winter nationals years ago. Yep definitely a speed freak since as long as I can remember. 300 mph would be fun for sure till then inevitable happens then not so much. Its akin to the biker motto of there are those that have and those that will cause of you ride/race long enough you will go down/crash. I grew up on dirt bikes in the trails and racing so learned very young that there is only one throttle position on a dirt bike and that is WFO. I still have my last bike I raced which is a 74 Yamaha SC 500 single cylinder two stroke that with factory gearing and sprockets tops out at 105mph confirmed by Cocoa Beach PD on the beach one early morning. It would kill me if I tried to ride it nowadays, just physically incapable of hanging on to it for more than a minute or two so just putt around the neighborhood on it to keep it running good. .
I grew up in Cocoa beach , FL and moved to AL in 93 still working for Cadillac till I lucked out in 98 when Harley was just starting testing of the v-rod and none of the mechanics at TTF had a clue about fuel injection or computers. I was a ASE master certified tech as well as a Cadillac/GM master tech. I had to regress back to 85/86 time frame to remember where GM was with fuel injection since the v-rod was a simple speed density alpha N fuel delivery system. Hence the reason for getting the job easily. I actually new more than some of the engineers that were designing the computer/fuel system for the v-rod. Harley uses a lot of Delphi components on their bikes still today so you can go to any auto parts store and buy the same part that would cost three times as much at Harley and the bike will not know the difference. Since 09 when fly by wire came into production some of the sensors are no longer used.
I do love Dixie and have no intentions of living in any other state.
BD
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Chris, what you think? 8)
Mike/Knife
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Kinda wish I had never left Dixie. but then I wold have never met my wonderful wife. She is very worth it! 20+ years later, I still fee the same.
:<)
Knife/Mike
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No pic came thru on the latch Chris. Got her lighter than expected. very easy to add weight now. She is 51 grams. So MUCH better than we expected.
I will include button material for the firth system. They wear after a few thousand rounds I guess. mine never have so far. Many thousands of shots at high fpe.
I subbed the Peek with Delrin, the harder Delrin type for bearings. It will be quieter than the peek as it is a little softer and quieter. And you said you wanted QUIET!!! Did I just yell Quiet?
I can seen more any time. Mine has the Peek, but I shoot at 80-90+ fpe with it. And you can sure still hear the hammer slap.
Enjoyed working on it. Started at midnight aad finished at 11. am. Good to be in the Shop! 8)
Mike/Knife
Where do you get the harder Delrin for bearings? is this it?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0070ZZ9JU/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0070ZZ9JU/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1)
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Can't wait to see that hammer in action...
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Kinda wish I had never left Dixie. but then I wold have never met my wonderful wife. She is very worth it! 20+ years later, I still fee the same.
:<)
Knife/Mike
Just the opposite for me since I met my wonderful wife here in Dixie and been together for 21 years, married 19 happily. ;D ;D ;D
BD