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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: JungleShooter on October 19, 2019, 04:34:05 AM
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Bullpup Butts(tocks) – Cut Them Off! – Why Are They Not Shorter?
OK, I’m being serious here – WHY are the buttstocks of bullpups often so long?
Disclaimer: Please, if you don’t like bullpups, that’s quite all right, but reading this thread probably is going to be a waste of your precious time. And sorry my Canadian friends if your country thinks that bullpups are dangerous and must be outlawed, that’s just another helicopter-government – and I feel for you.
The Reason Bullpups Exist
I tend to agree with Wikipedia on this – the reason bullpups exist is to deliver the same power and precision – but in a much shorter and lighter package. So, with the same barrel length, the goal is to go as short and light as feasible.
First Surprise
But to some size does NOT seem important...? That must be Airgun Depot’s stance. In their (otherwise very helpful) series Head to Head they compare different airguns with each other, and assign points to each to arrive at a ranking. Well, size is not among the criteria that earns any points...! Go figure.
For instance, in the article below, a 27% difference in size was not important to the reviewers.... (7.8" = 19.8cm). ?!?
https://www.airgundepot.com/head-to-head-kral-puncher-breaker-silent-vs-hatsan-bullboss-article.html (https://www.airgundepot.com/head-to-head-kral-puncher-breaker-silent-vs-hatsan-bullboss-article.html)
Second Surprise
I liked the performance/price ratio of the Artemis P15.* But I liked the looks of Diana’s version of the P15, with the Minelli stock, so that’s what Santa brought me in April (yes, shipping to Peru takes a WHILE).
Now, look with me at the Skyhawk:** There is a long and heavy part of woodstock after the action that extends far beyond the action. There are well over 3 inches to this gun that do little if anything to improve the shooting of this gun (unless I’m missing something here...). If I wanted a gun that long, then please, don’t give me 3" of dead wood, instead give me 3" of extra barrel that will translate directly into more power or more shots per fill....
And the argument that these extra 3" are needed to increase length of pull (“so that my trigger hand and my forehand will be positioned farther away from my body”) – well, I suggest to design the trigger and the forestock 3" forward, instead of the buttstock 3" further back – and voilà!
* 26.6" (68cm) OAL = P15
**29.0" (74cm) OAL = Skyhawk
My First Question
So, WHY do manufacturers waste precious inches on unnecessary stock?
Unnecessary – that’s what it seems to me at least (and maybe I’m just dead wrong).
Unnecessary like bloat ware – I’d call them bloat stocks, i.e., longer than necessary.
My Second Question
So, WHY should I not simply CUT OFF the bloated buttstock? – (beside the more obvious reason of acquiring a legal “You’re-out-of-your-mind!” certificate).
My cut would “gain” [read: loose] almost 3.5" (9cm) – a significantly shorter gun for packing and handling in confined spaces.
Bloat Stocks
To illustrate this curious buttstock phenomena, below is a sampling of 40 bullpup photos (also as Hi-Res photo for download at the link). See for yourself how some bullpups have efficient stocks, and others flaunt bloat stocks.
Happy shooting,
Matthias
LINK for Hi-Res Photo: https://www.mediafire.com/view/nydn2wr2701c8y3/Bullpups._Bloat_Stocks._06._HiRes_15.1Mb.jpg (https://www.mediafire.com/view/nydn2wr2701c8y3/Bullpups._Bloat_Stocks._06._HiRes_15.1Mb.jpg)
Lo-Res:
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Just the other day I was looking at my Huub Viking and thinking if I should cut off 15mm extra from the butt stock. You are right, there's usually no need for that stock to continue after action ends - although in many cases it's just the fancy adjustable butt plate that could be replaced with something shorter. BTW, you measured that Evanix pup wrong, there's a block behind the breech that's part of the action.
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The answer to your question is LOP vs trigger transfer bar length. To keep the average 14'" LOP when shouldered, either the buttstock has to be longer or the transfer bar has to be. Shorter transfer SHOULD translate into a better trigger. Shorter buttstock equals easier carry. Just for fun, I looked up a Ataman M2R and a Marauder wood stock. The Ataman is 1/2 pound heavier, wood stock. 1 1/2 pounds heavier with synthetic stock.
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Eugentic humans to shorter arm length...or cut bulpups off just behind the pistol grip anmd use them as long-pistols.
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Never understood the designs used by some having excesses in Stock BEHIND the receiver ?
FX Bobcats .... Kral Puncher breakers among others. ???
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ergonomics. Just making a platform shorter doesnt make it easier to use. How ever that extra length has used correctly, not just hung on for whatever aesthetic reasons.
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Edgun RM5 the perfect pup design.
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Edgun RM5 the perfect pup design.
Agreed
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If we were all built the exact same, we wouldn't need much variation in guns, period.
I'm 5' 10" but my arm-span is equivalent to what a person 6' 3" would have. What works for somebody that is 5' 10" usually makes me feel like my arms are folded up.