GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Weihrauch Airguns => Topic started by: Tom Tucker on September 20, 2019, 03:01:45 PM
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So the FedEx truck paid me a visit yesterday, and dropped off a P1, standard model in .20 caliber.
This gun and its twin, the HW45 have been around for so long, I almost didn't bother writing up an unboxing / first impressions type of post for it. What could I write about it that hasn't already been written? But, then again, I figure things do evolve over time, so someone might this useful or interesting.
Let's start with what I didn't like. The first thing I noticed was that the trigger was a little crunchy. The crunchiness was at the end of the travel in the 2nd stage, where it doesn't really matter because it's way past the let-off point. That roughness went mostly away within about 30-40 shots and now with 300 shots, it is completely gone. Other than that initial roughness, the trigger has a nice light first stage, and breaks at the very beginning of the second stage with very little creep. I could probably adjust it to be even better, but I want to let it finish breaking in first.
The second thing that I didn't like was the way rear sight's elevation screw liked to slowly unscrew itself during a shooting session. This was easy to fix - I removed the screw and wrapped a bit of plumbers tape around the threads. Now it's nice and tight.
Third, and this is more of a neutral, cocking effort is pretty high. I heard it was easier to cock than a P17 - well, this one sure isn't! It's like prying open a bear trap! I'm still getting the hang of it. The reason I don't mind the cocking effort is the POWER. This thing is a beast! I've been travelling a lot, and this gun's output is very elevation sensitive. At around 1500 feet, it averages 480-485fps with H&N FTT's. Most of them weigh between 11.5 and 11.7 grains. At sea level, the velocity jumps to between 505-510. I've only shot 300 pellets so far, so I'll see if the velocity settles down some. I've been checking it after every few targets and it has been consistent so far, except for the 25fps difference between sea level and 1500ft.
What I'm liking the most is the accuracy! I've heard of people having a really hard time mastering this gun, but I'm finding it to be no problem at all. I'm shooting tighter groups with this thing than I do with either of my P17's. I use the same hold that I use for my other pistols. It was grouping very well at 10 yards, but 1/4" low and 1/2" to the right, so I adjusted the sights without trying to change my hold. It recoils, but I hold it fairly lightly and let it do it's thing.
I had some worries buying an expensive pistol that seems to have a love-it-or-hate-it reputation, but I'm having a great time shooting it!
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I'm glad you're finding it easy to shoot. I'm still struggling with mine. I rebarreled my 20 cal P1 to 177 because I couldn't afford to be so bad with it :P It's a cool piece and I like it more each time I shoot it..
Enjoy your new gun. :)
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Thanks. It's true that this pistol will punish you if you "step out of line." I must have gotten a little cocky and on day 2 she let me know about it. I couldn't figure out what I doing wrong, but it turned out that I was making 2 mistakes. The first one was that I was letting my left thumb come around and rest against the back of the gun. She just plain didn't like that and it was making my shots pull to the right. The other mistake was that I was holding it a little tighter as my hands got sweatier. So what I learned to do was just hold it as light as possible, so that the POI would end up as high as possible. Basically just letting the gun float when shooting 2-handed. Then I screwed down the rear sight until I had it zeroed again. This hold is easier to repeat, and the POI is pretty much same 1-hand and 2-hand if I keep my 2-hand hold really light. The weight of the gun forces me to hold it tighter 1-hand and it seems to balance out. Before this, it would shoot way higher 1 hand compared to 2.
Good luck with yours, and I'm glad you're enjoying it more as time goes on.
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I was shooting mine Friday and I was actually doing better one handed. I tend to vary my grip too much with two hands. I tend to death grip the gun when I get too intense and the POI drops several inches. It seems to be easier to have a repeatable grip with one hand. Also if I stare down the sight too long i start to shake. I do my best raising the gun to target and firing off quickly. That's one or two handed
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I decided to do more one handed shooting and I agree, it seems to come a lot more naturally. Two-handed, I have to make more of conscious effort to use the pistol version of an artillery hold. It works though - you just have to resist the tendency to grip it like a .45.
Was there any practical difference between the .20 and .177, or basically just cheaper ammo to practice with?
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P1, is that the one with two power levels?
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It does have 2 power levels, but I've never tried the slower one. ;)
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I was wondering what the fps was, and if the recoil was easier to work with offering tighter groups.
I had a P 11 couldn't hit &^^& with it.
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It does have 2 power levels, but I've never tried the slower one. ;)
Don't bother the slower level will print 4 to 6 inches higher. Then when you want to hit something "soft" you'll always push it to full power and miss. Pretend that half cock doesn't exist. It is actually bad for the gun anyway. Full power keeps the piston seal conformed. I only switched to 177cal because it was too expensive to be terrible, with 20 cal. I may go back to 20 after I get better with it. As a kid I used to hunt feral cats on garbage nights with Crossman pistols. I found the slower co2 powered 22 cal 38C more "gratifying" than my 1377. That embarrassingly said, a little more womp with the 20 might be appreciated when I can hit something with it.
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Tom,
I find cocking my P1 easy, when I place the pad of my left thumb under the rear sight; so I am using mostly my thumb to provide the force. Push up and forward in one swift motion, and Bob's your uncle...
Else, pushing under the underside of the "slide" by applying force to the side "rails" digs into my hand. Placing my thumb between the rails is much more comfortable.
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I mostly shoot the P1 at full power. The short stroke setting is interesting, if lower noise is indicated.
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I figured images would help:
Tom,
I find cocking my P1 easy, when I place the pad of my left thumb under the rear sight; so I am using mostly my thumb to provide the force. Push up and forward in one swift motion, and Bob's your uncle...
Else, pushing under the underside of the "slide" by applying force to the side "rails" digs into my hand. Placing my thumb between the rails is much more comfortable.
The first image shows the most obvious cocking grip; however it is uncomfortable.
The second and third images show the preferred cocking grip.
The right hand would be gripping the pistol grip, if it were not holding the camera...
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What a convoluted way to cock an airgun. :-[
I'm surprised people don't hurt themselves while doing it.
Think I will stick to break barrels! :D ;) 8)
-Y
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What a convoluted way to cock an airgun. :-[
I'm surprised people don't hurt themselves while doing it.
Think I will stick to break barrels! :D ;) 8)
-Y
I concluded long ago, that while shooting pistols was challenging and fun; if you really need to hit something, use a rifle. The ergonomics of something like an HW30 are so much better than the P1 (HW45). It produces more energy and is much easier to shoot accurately too. Why would anyone use a pistol? Only reason is to practice for PB pistols. Those have the advantage that they may be carried more easily than rifles.
That said, if you master pistol shooting, rifle shooting is a piece of cake. At least until you start to stretch the range. On the other hand, I used to shoot metallic silhouette at 50 to 200 meters with a .44 Mag revolver; offhand.
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I like to pull out one of my pistols when I'm out shooting targets with certain family members. Wife or Kid with a rifle vs. Dad shooting one of his pistols. It gives them a fighting chance, and it's more 'interesting' for me :)
That being said, this thing has some real pesting power, but there is a lack of pests who are actually being pests. The squirrels have learned to stay the heck away from my soffits, and I can only assume that they've passed that wisdom on to the next generation...
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I managed to get some trigger time in, just some easy 5 yard shooting in the living room. This was my last group, 5 under a dime at 5 yards.
Also took a few shots over the ali express crony to see how it was holding up after its first tin. They were all 152.x or 153.x meters/sec (about 500fps). Cocking is either getting a little smoother/easier, or I'm getting better at it.
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How do you like the crony?
-Y
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How do you like the crony?
-Y
It's good except I wish it would read in feet per second.
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Howdy all
It is good to hear about other people shooting the HW45 and P1 pistols.
I have a HW45 .22 Bought it new earlier this year, and now have around 2000 pellets thru it.
It has had from day one the feeling and sound of the spring being compressed when cocking.
I have a Hw30 That is and has been butter smooth from the start.
How does your Hw45 or P1 feel and sound when cocking.
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Howdy all
It is good to hear about other people shooting the HW45 and P1 pistols.
I have a HW45 .22 Bought it new earlier this year, and now have around 2000 pellets thru it.
It has had from day one the feeling and sound of the spring being compressed when cocking.
I have a Hw30 That is and has been butter smooth from the start.
How does your Hw45 or P1 feel and sound when cocking.
If I cock it slowly, mine sounds like... BING-CRING-DING-SPROING. Well, it's not really that bad. It has gotten a bit smoother over the first 500 pellets. I don't know if it will ever be "butter smooth" though.
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The P1/hw45 is an industrial work of art and a plinkers best friend. Very well designed and accurate once you establish a consistent shooting technique. I have many thousands of pellets through mine. I alternate frequently between low power and high power. Low power when I want a quieter plinker and full power for longer distances. It was designed by Weihrauch to have two power levels and I’ve never seen any evidence that it is “bad” to shoot the gun on low power.
R
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Howdy all
It is good to hear about other people shooting the HW45 and P1 pistols.
I have a HW45 .22 Bought it new earlier this year, and now have around 2000 pellets thru it.
It has had from day one the feeling and sound of the spring being compressed when cocking.
I have a Hw30 That is and has been butter smooth from the start.
How does your Hw45 or P1 feel and sound when cocking.
Hi Tony, both of my HW45s made spring noises when cocking. That bothered me somewhat but what I really noticed was the shape of the springs when cocked. They were bulging in and out and weren't straight on the guide. This led me to believe (after the first spring broke) that the spring ends were not free to rotate....
So I took them apart and confirmed my suspicion... here's the factory spring end, rough, unpolished, and binding on its bearing:
(https://i.imgur.com/Dbp9kBg.jpg)
After I clipped a couple coils (they're over-sprung at my elevation), I polished the spring ends and applied moly to the spring ends and the spring guide. No need to lube the piston seal, it's Teflon. Reassembled and the cocking on both are now smooth-like-butter, require less effort, and are dead silent when cocking.
Not sure if that's what is causing the issue in yours or others, but it was in mine. If that is the issue, it's a shame that HW doesn't spend an extra 5 minutes to finish the spring ends on a $500 pistol...
Wyo
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Thanks for the info about polishing the spring ends. I just need to get in the mood to take it apart. Or maybe I will shoot it until the spring breaks then polish the new spring.
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When it needs a new spring, I will definitely polish the spring ends. Just to update after 600 pellets. The gun has stopped producing visible smoke, and now it's just a slight diesel smell. Avg FPS over 10 shots is 499 fps with 11.6 grain pellets, ES of 6 fps. I took a couple of shots on low-power just to see how fast they would go and they averaged 388 fps.
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Just got my Beeman P1 new piston seal from Custom Air Seals in Australia and I also got a new P1 spring from ARH.
Disassembled my P1 and the 1987 original spring is 1.5 inches shorter than the new one, glad I made a spring compressor.
My chrono results with the original spring were not very good, averaging 4.7 FPE at 500 Elevation with .20 cal.
So I am cleaning all and replacing spring and seal. I have polished the ends of the new ARH spring.
The spring guide fits tight to the spring at the end - which may not allow spring to rotate.
Question : Do you think I should try to fit a stainless steel washer at the end of the spring over the spring guide and inside the piston ?
Thanks for the help.