GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Big Bore AirGun Gate => Topic started by: VaporTrail on August 28, 2019, 03:16:46 AM
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Looking to order some slugs/boowits to hunt some wabbits...but I'd like to know what size to get. .356? .359? .358? My search-fu has been weak lately; I did use the search function up top, but I didn't come up with anything.
Anyone?
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I tried a number of different cast bullets in my 70-35 and never found one that performed well. I tried sizing up and down from .357 with no great success that was worth writing home about it. It does shoot .357 cast diabolo pellets with great accuracy though!!
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Hmm...that's a little disconcerting. I found a seller on ebay (I coulda swore that I heard his name here) that has a bunch of .357 slugs, so I was going to order 3 different weights.
I guess I could try them out anyways and see if I get lucky.
Knowing the bore size would be a little helpful, though...for future reference.
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I found .358 gave me the best accuracy with the bullets I cast.
I bought some of these and I hand my best results with this bullet
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AIR-RIFLE-PELLETS-90-GRAIN-EPP-UG-357-9-MM-BUY-3-GET-1-FREE/163745552308?hash=item261ffed7b4:g:9o0AAOSw8SNakH8A (https://www.ebay.com/itm/AIR-RIFLE-PELLETS-90-GRAIN-EPP-UG-357-9-MM-BUY-3-GET-1-FREE/163745552308?hash=item261ffed7b4:g:9o0AAOSw8SNakH8A)
I almost bought a mold for it then chickened out and bought a 84gr .357 pellet mold instead, which the rifle does very well shooting them. It also does very well with the JSB .357 pellets. I bought some of them to just sanity check the rifle and my shooting.
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Yes! Those are exactly the bullets I was looking at!
Well, those and I think the 84gr. I'm also going to be ordering some NSA slugs. I'll ask Mr. Niel for some in the .358 flavor.
Thanks a bunch, Loren! 8)
And yes, the JSB 81gr shoot very well out of the rifle.
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Keeps us posted on your results if you find something magical for the gun!!
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Will do! 8) 8)
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I would stick with the JSB pellet, for a change I would look into the NOE mold of the pellet that has a Meplat
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I would stick with the JSB pellet, for a change I would look into the NOE mold of the pellet that has a Meplat
My man! The JSBs shoot like a dream...and they thump pretty hard. I have a target box with a phone book in it and about 3 pairs of jeans stuffed in there. It doesn't usually penetrate through (well, one made it through), but it'll knock that box right over if there's nothing behind it. Good thing I have two target boxes set up to catch any pass-throughs.
I've been reading up on the Meplat stuff, and I want to try it out. There's a bunch of them, but the heaviest I want to go is about 95gr. A lot of them are 100+, but I'd like to keep the speeds in the upper half of 800 as much as possible.
Speaking of trying stuff out, I'm also curious about trying out this casting thing. If it's feasible, then I may be able to save myself some money by casting my own .22, .25 and .35 pellets/slugs. I saw that maraudinglizard casts her (?) own diabolo HP pellets. I'm thinking that would be nice to try out too.
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Cast your own.
A little over 22lbs this evening making over 1800 rounds of .357 85gr pellets from one casting session. It is a fun part of the hobby for me.
(https://i.imgur.com/Bvqspcd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DXey8jn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eEc3q4P.jpg)
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Cast your own.
A little over 22lbs this evening making over 1800 rounds of .357 85gr pellets from one casting session. It is a fun part of the hobby for me.
(https://i.imgur.com/Bvqspcd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DXey8jn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eEc3q4P.jpg)
That is the direction I would go rather then bullets
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There is a sample pack from that ebay seller.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AIR-RIFLE-PELLETS-357-9MM-SAMPLE-PACK/163745552296?hash=item261ffed7a8:g:TN0AAOSwUPVcERKV (https://www.ebay.com/itm/AIR-RIFLE-PELLETS-357-9MM-SAMPLE-PACK/163745552296?hash=item261ffed7a8:g:TN0AAOSwUPVcERKV)
But if the rifling twist is too slow for bullets then it is a waste of time. Just use pellets.
Does anyone know the twist rate for these barrels. It might be good to know that spec. Just wondering about another factor. Does the velocity that your getting with pellets even lend itself to rebarreling to a different twist barrel?
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Cast your own.
A little over 22lbs this evening making over 1800 rounds of .357 85gr pellets from one casting session. It is a fun part of the hobby for me.
(https://i.imgur.com/Bvqspcd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DXey8jn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eEc3q4P.jpg)
Oooh...those look nice! How do they shoot?
I tried looking into the casting thing several times...and I still have trouble understanding it. I'd love to get into it, but I'm concerned that the pellets that come from the mold won't perform accurately.
That, and how would I get lead out here? I imagine the shipping would be downright obscene because of how much it weighs. I guess I can go diving (plenty of lost sinkers in the popular fishing spots) to get some? Raid the tire shops?
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Cast your own.
A little over 22lbs this evening making over 1800 rounds of .357 85gr pellets from one casting session. It is a fun part of the hobby for me.
(https://i.imgur.com/Bvqspcd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DXey8jn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eEc3q4P.jpg)
That is the direction I would go rather then bullets
and I imagine they might even be more accurate. Has that meplat, though...and a hollow point! So possibly a good compromise?
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If you shoot into a target box. Eventually you’ll have some lead.
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Dive weights,
gotta have plenty there :)
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Also might want to check salvage sailboats some of the keel weights are lead... you do need to worry about hardness of your lead tho...some alloys are way to hard...
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If you shoot into a target box. Eventually you’ll have some lead.
I'm kicking myself in the rear right now because I think I threw away all the pellets that were in my first target box. There had to have been about 1500 in there. :o :(
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Dive weights,
gotta have plenty there :)
oh yeah, bruddah...tons! I have a couple too, from my freediving days. And I have a ton of sinkers. Now all I need to do is get one of those underwater metal detectors and hit the river at my ranch. We've been fishing there for years and we've lost our fair share of sinkers. After that will be some of the boat docks. I know there's gonna be tons there as well.
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Also might want to check salvage sailboats some of the keel weights are lead... you do need to worry about hardness of your lead tho...some alloys are way to hard...
I haven't seen too many sailboats here, but thanks for the tip! I never knew about that. Also a good tip about the alloys. I guess I can do the fingernail test, yeah?
I'm trying to think of other areas where I can scrounge for lead.
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Paul, have you gone to Rotometals? Here's a link to their shipping page, It wouldnt hurt to contact them and ask. My 30 pound lead orders ship USPS so I do not see a large increase in cost. I know big bore guns get hungry fast :)
https://www.rotometals.com/shipping-faq-1/ (https://www.rotometals.com/shipping-faq-1/)
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I'm not sure what alloy my dive weights are, but they are HARD. Just fyi
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Paul, have you gone to Rotometals? Here's a link to their shipping page, It wouldnt hurt to contact them and ask. My 30 pound lead orders ship USPS so I do not see a large increase in cost. I know big bore guns get hungry fast :)
https://www.rotometals.com/shipping-faq-1/ (https://www.rotometals.com/shipping-faq-1/)
Thanks, James! I'll check em out, but I think I'd better stay in my chair when I check out the shipping estimate. :o I'm sure I'll max the poundage in those flat rate boxes real quick.
And speaking of quick, yes they do get hungry fast. Be it air or lead, they have an appetite. My wallet isn't nearly deep enough to plunk with a big bore. ;D At least I have a compressor to keep up with my girls (2 Bosses and the Winchester).
On a side note...i discovered something about those BBTs you sent me. They seemed to tighten up at a lower velocity. Hmm...I'll do more tuning testing with them. Thanks again for those!
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I'm not sure what alloy my dive weights are, but they are HARD. Just fyi
Hmm...I wonder if any if the harder stuff will float to surface during a melting session. I really wanna try casting, but man, my wife is gonna hang me from my toes.
"You need to spend another HOW much?!"
Baby, baby...you know you're my queen, right? :o ;D
:P
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So just to check, I put five 1lb ingots in my shopping cart. USPS Shipping came out to $77.45. ???
So a total of about 150 bucks for 5lbs of lead. That should yield about 432 81gr pellets, assuming there's no waste.
So...150 bucks for 432 pellets.
On Pyramid, with their astronomical shipping prices, I can get 500 pellets for 192 bucks.
Tough call either which way it goes. :(
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I might have a bunch of JSB for sale in the future if you want some and save a bunch on shipping :)
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I might have a bunch of JSB for sale in the future if you want some and save a bunch on shipping :)
For sure, my bruddah! What calibers you have?
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There is a sample pack from that ebay seller.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AIR-RIFLE-PELLETS-357-9MM-SAMPLE-PACK/163745552296?hash=item261ffed7a8:g:TN0AAOSwUPVcERKV (https://www.ebay.com/itm/AIR-RIFLE-PELLETS-357-9MM-SAMPLE-PACK/163745552296?hash=item261ffed7a8:g:TN0AAOSwUPVcERKV)
But if the rifling twist is too slow for bullets then it is a waste of time. Just use pellets.
Does anyone know the twist rate for these barrels. It might be good to know that spec. Just wondering about another factor. Does the velocity that your getting with pellets even lend itself to rebarreling to a different twist barrel?
And it appears I have overlooked this one. Sorry, BigBird. I don't know the twist rate for this barrel. Velocity actually isn't too bad...6 shot string:
866
877
882
884
881
877
I'm going to play around with fill pressure and see if I can bring up that first number. Maybe goof around with HS adjustment to see if I can stretch out that slight bell on shots 3-5.
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Initial testing with the slugs I got from Rick Morril on ebay wasn't all that spectacular. 82.5gr FT HPs. I didn't get to chrono work yet, but I'm wondering if I even need to.
The slugs were all over the place at 18 yards. Can't remember exactly, but it was something to the effect of 2-2.5" groupings. :o
I'll try again this weekend if time permits...possibly even stretch it out to 40.
The JSBs are still king; either stacking holes or making clover leaves.
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You might want to look at the TOTAL COST of casting...ALL the pieces and parts. Lead might be the costliest if you have to ship it, but lead melting pot, molds, temp gauges, handles etc can get a bit spendy and I can find most of my bullet needs at gun shows or through local casters. Even using Corbin products to swage with gets REAL spendy...but, Hey...this is your fun and you can't count the cost of fun, it take all the fun out of fun.
Better start hording lead before the Dems get wind of it.
Good Shooting
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Yeah...it's that startup that's gonna make the pill hardest to swallow. That, and I'd have to spend the better part of a year learning and getting into my groove.
And then there's the wife. :o ;D True, sometimes it's fun to work her over and push those buttons...but they seem to get even more incensed when you're laughing to yourself on the couch.
Bad sports, I tell ya. ;D
Definitely something I want to try out, though. Casting, I mean. Not more nights on the couch.
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If I was to cast for a -/+140 FPE .357 I would get the pellet mould that NOA has
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That sounds like an idea, bruddah Manny. Something in a .358 size, boat tail hollow point around 82-85gr.
I suppose I should look into it. Thanks!
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No I was talking about the Pettel Mould that NOA makes,...pellet, not bullet
I think is a waste of time to try go bullets unless you have much more power on tap
a pellet with a flat nose like the one on the NOE mould will do just fine, no need for the Hollowpoint gimmick
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No I was talking about the Pettel Mould that NOA makes,...pellet, not bullet
I think is a waste of time to try go bullets unless you have much more power on tap
a pellet with a flat nose like the one on the NOE mould will do just fine, no need for the Hollowpoint gimmick
Ah...got it. I think I need to try out some of the meplat pellets. I keep reading that they can throw quite the thumping. Do the meplats dump energy similar to the hollow points?
My cousin swears that HPs are the best all around choice, but for brain shots, I'd rather have a nice dome. I intended to use the HPs to open up my shot options; slightly behind the ear where it meets the jowl is perfect for hitting the neck bones. And with the size and energy that the Winchester is putting out, I'm sure it'd be quite effective.
However...if those meplats can dump similar to an HP, then that could possibly be the magic "in-between" pellet. If they can both penetrate and dump energy, then that might be the route to go.
Whatcha think, bruddah?
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This is the mold Manny is talking about, I have one. It came with 4 sets of pins to change the weight of the pellet. I also have a mold from AAO that gives me multiple weights. Predator Polymags dump all their energy on impact, I rarely have a pass through with the .22 polymags. I have better results with pellets than slugs in my .35 cal. rifles.
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=35_586&products_id=5559 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=35_586&products_id=5559)
http://www.africanairordnance.com/424820687/category/618414/pellet-molds (http://www.africanairordnance.com/424820687/category/618414/pellet-molds)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/predator-polymag-35-cal-81-01-grains-pointed-50ct?p=1383 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/predator-polymag-35-cal-81-01-grains-pointed-50ct?p=1383)
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Thanks Kris. I'd want to sample a couple of .356 pellets before putting down some cash; I'd sure hate to see 100 bucks go down the drain. The AAO stuff looks interesting, but holy smokes 300 bucks? Ouch.
Lol...my wife is going to wring my neck. I tried to make her understand that I'd be saving money in the long term with this initial investment, but all I got was a raised eyebrow. I fixed her a drink and did the dishes for her...and I left it at that. A smart man knows when to zip it. ;D
I still want to try it out though.
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I would suggest using these bullets from NOE: http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34_255&products_id=3857 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=34_255&products_id=3857)
They have been rather accurate (same or better than JSBs) in Evanix barrels and work with Evanix magazines. Much better BC than pellets. Sized for .358 seems to work best.
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Hmm...those sound pretty nice, rkr. I keep hearing about .358 being the most accurate out of the Winchesters. I should mic those ebay slugs I bought and see what they come out to. That way I'll know to avoid them, since the slugs did not perform well at all.
I'll run a couple of other tests, but I'm not going to hold my breath. At least I only ordered one box.
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Hmm...those sound pretty nice, rkr. I keep hearing about .358 being the most accurate out of the Winchesters. I should mic those ebay slugs I bought and see what they come out to. That way I'll know to avoid them, since the slugs did not perform well at all.
I'll run a couple of other tests, but I'm not going to hold my breath. At least I only ordered one box.
They shot like this from the crappy stock barrel:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4233/35641828741_19b8cf9305_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WixFWD)100m-group_zps2d686c3d (https://flic.kr/p/WixFWD) by abbababbaccc (https://www.flickr.com/photos/11843711@N08/), on Flickr
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Thanks Kris. I'd want to sample a couple of .356 pellets before putting down some cash; I'd sure hate to see 100 bucks go down the drain. The AAO stuff looks interesting, but holy smokes 300 bucks? Ouch.
Lol...my wife is going to wring my neck. I tried to make her understand that I'd be saving money in the long term with this initial investment, but all I got was a raised eyebrow. I fixed her a drink and did the dishes for her...and I left it at that. A smart man knows when to zip it. ;D
I still want to try it out though.
When Jeremy started selling the AAO molds, they were the only ones on the market at that time. I paid $250 and waited 5 weeks to get the mold from him. It was worth it to me. I had just bought the Hatsan Carnivore BT 65 .357 and was having loading and accuracy issues with it using slugs. I found that the gun liked lighter, pellet shaped ammo. The Rex P pistol is the same way as well. The Recluse is not to picky with ammo. I all my guns are stock and have no intentions of modifying them in the future. I know their limitations and be governed accordingly. When NOE started selling molds, I invested in a few to reduce the cost of ammo, they have basically paid for themselves in a few months. As far as dealing with the other half, I can't help you there, you are on your own with that one. ;)
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Hmm...those sound pretty nice, rkr. I keep hearing about .358 being the most accurate out of the Winchesters. I should mic those ebay slugs I bought and see what they come out to. That way I'll know to avoid them, since the slugs did not perform well at all.
I'll run a couple of other tests, but I'm not going to hold my breath. At least I only ordered one box.
They shot like this from the crappy stock barrel:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4233/35641828741_19b8cf9305_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WixFWD)100m-group_zps2d686c3d (https://flic.kr/p/WixFWD) by abbababbaccc (https://www.flickr.com/photos/11843711@N08/), on Flickr
Did I read that right? 100 meters? :o
That should be real nice and tight at 40-50.
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Thanks Kris. I'd want to sample a couple of .356 pellets before putting down some cash; I'd sure hate to see 100 bucks go down the drain. The AAO stuff looks interesting, but holy smokes 300 bucks? Ouch.
Lol...my wife is going to wring my neck. I tried to make her understand that I'd be saving money in the long term with this initial investment, but all I got was a raised eyebrow. I fixed her a drink and did the dishes for her...and I left it at that. A smart man knows when to zip it. ;D
I still want to try it out though.
When Jeremy started selling the AAO molds, they were the only ones on the market at that time. I paid $250 and waited 5 weeks to get the mold from him. It was worth it to me. I had just bought the Hatsan Carnivore BT 65 .357 and was having loading and accuracy issues with it using slugs. I found that the gun liked lighter, pellet shaped ammo. The Rex P pistol is the same way as well. The Recluse is not to picky with ammo. I all my guns are stock and have no intentions of modifying them in the future. I know their limitations and be governed accordingly. When NOE started selling molds, I invested in a few to reduce the cost of ammo, they have basically paid for themselves in a few months. As far as dealing with the other half, I can't help you there, you are on your own with that one. ;)
Oh ok...that's a little better. Yeah, I tried to convince her, but I think I need to be...creative...in pleading my case. ;D
Oh well...maybe next year for Father's Day. Or my birthday. Or Christmas. ???
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Hmm...those sound pretty nice, rkr. I keep hearing about .358 being the most accurate out of the Winchesters. I should mic those ebay slugs I bought and see what they come out to. That way I'll know to avoid them, since the slugs did not perform well at all.
I'll run a couple of other tests, but I'm not going to hold my breath. At least I only ordered one box.
They shot like this from the crappy stock barrel:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4233/35641828741_19b8cf9305_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WixFWD)100m-group_zps2d686c3d (https://flic.kr/p/WixFWD) by abbababbaccc (https://www.flickr.com/photos/11843711@N08/), on Flickr
Did I read that right? 100 meters? :o
That should be real nice and tight at 40-50.
Yep, 100M group. For hunting and silhouette that's good enough, not for bench rest. That same gun with .257 barrel does this at 100M:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48271717607_7b629d137d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gxBaTe)100m-group (https://flic.kr/p/2gxBaTe) by abbababbaccc (https://www.flickr.com/photos/11843711@N08/), on Flickr
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:o Now that is one heck of a group!
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:o Now that is one heck of a group!
And that's why .257 is such a popular caliber. The funny thing is that both those groups are shot with bullets almost the same weight and energy. Just add hollow point to the equation for hunting purposes.
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No kidding. Now that really makes me want to look harder at converting my Sumatra long to .257.
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No kidding. Now that really makes me want to look harder at converting my Sumatra long to .257.
Or, get a .257 barrel for your Winchester/Evanix like I and Hobbyman did ;)
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I'd need to take a look at that thread again...but didn't something need to be done about the breech and probe too?
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I'd need to take a look at that thread again...but didn't something need to be done about the breech and probe too?
You need a .25 probe and barrel needs to be fitted to the breech. I did those with bench drill and handtools. The only tricky part is making o-ring groove for the barrel but you can skip that by moving the o-ring to the probe.
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Uh oh. I might have a slight problem with that. I can't cut or grind a straight line to save my life. Well, maybe if I mark it. :o