GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Feinwerkbau => Topic started by: Dr.J#13@AZ on August 12, 2019, 07:49:23 PM
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I’m looking to purchase a target rifle for informal 10 meter target practice and metallic silhouette air rifle competition. Although I’ve narrowed it down to the FWB 300, 601, 602, or 603 models, I’m open to suggestions. My hesitancy with the 300 is the age, specifically durability. I don’t want to purchase a gun and have to send it out for repair. I’ll be averaging around 150 shots a week. I will most likely be purchasing from Jim E. or Carel. My main criterion are accuracy and dependability, hence my wondering if a 600 series rifle might be a better choice. I’ll initially be shooting with the stock target sights, but plan on mounting a scoring in the near future. Your comments would be appreciated. The, Tom
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My friend,
With all do respect, I do not think the 300 will ever “wear out”. Seals will over time , but the rifle is repairable and certainly can be gifted to your grandkids.
I have dealt with Jim E and will continue to do so.
Just my opinion,
Mitch
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I have a 300s a 300s mini and 300s universal. I woulnt trade them for
any of the 600 series. I had the 300s tuned and reasealed by David Slade at Airgunwerks. All three are extremely accurate. Ive bought all three and. a Walther LGR from Jim E. Parts are out there and people to work on them.
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I own a 603 SSP.
I really like it. It'd the last SSP that Feinverkbaugh made and has all the improvements that were possible. I used to own a PCP Anshutz 2002. Both of these rifles are capable to shoot one hole at 10 meters.
My 603 likes H and N Final Match and discontinued Vogel.
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I’m looking to purchase a target rifle for informal 10 meter target practice and metallic silhouette air rifle competition. Although I’ve narrowed it down to the FWB 300, 601, 602, or 603 models, I’m open to suggestions. My hesitancy with the 300 is the age, specifically durability. I don’t want to purchase a gun and have to send it out for repair. I’ll be averaging around 150 shots a week. I will most likely be purchasing from Jim E. or Carel. My main criterion are accuracy and dependability, hence my wondering if a 600 series rifle might be a better choice. I’ll initially be shooting with the stock target sights, but plan on mounting a scoring in the near future. Your comments would be appreciated. The, Tom
I currently own a 300. I’ve owned and sold a 603. I’ve shot a 601, 300s and countless other 10 meter rifles. All are more accurate than any of us unless you are an Olympic shooter. The 600 series are FANTASTIC shooters but a pain in the Southern Hemisphere to scope but it certainly can be done (I’ve scoped a few). The 300 series are easy to scope. Shorter scopes work better of course. I’ve rebuilt both several times and the 300 is easier to work on but the 600’s are not bad after a few times. Diana 75 series rifles are fantastic and easy to scope but I do not have the knowledge to rebuild one myself (I own 2). Read a bit about the Walther LGR. THE FIRST SSP rifle to the competitive market. It put to rest the FWB 300 series rifles and made FWB develop the 600 series rifles which took ten years if I remember correctly. The Walther LGR was so accurate that it claimed two world records after it was introduced and was the reason that the size of the now standard Olympic target was reduced from prior. Probably the easiest SSP to scope and about 60% the cost of a 600 series.
I still claim that they are all more accurate than us. It comes down to which one feels most comfortable.
If you can’t tell, I love ten meter rifles!
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I haven't scoped any of my 300s or the Walther. I enjoy the challenge of the
stock sights. I believe i would get bored if they were scoped. With the right pellets i can put 10 pellets in less than 1/4 at 25 yards.
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One of the few I haven’t owned yet is the Anschutz 380. If you are quick, there is one on eBay that ends in one hour. I’m tired of owning righ5 handed rifles and trying to shoot them lefty so I’m not bidding on it. They are great rifles too but they are springers, recoiless springers. This one is missing the sights.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/323877578162?ul_ref=https%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F0%252Fe11010.m1951.l7534%252F7%253Feuid%253D738e0191b634471d8b7b0145c0dbf712%2526bu%253D43356017893%2526ut%253DRU%2526loc%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fulk%25252Fitm%25252F323877578162%2526exe%253D21789%2526ext%253D56613%2526es%253D0%2526nqc%253DCABAAAAAABAAAAAAABAAAAIAAEBAIAEAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEA (https://www.ebay.com/itm/323877578162?ul_ref=https%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F0%252Fe11010.m1951.l7534%252F7%253Feuid%253D738e0191b634471d8b7b0145c0dbf712%2526bu%253D43356017893%2526ut%253DRU%2526loc%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fulk%25252Fitm%25252F323877578162%2526exe%253D21789%2526ext%253D56613%2526es%253D0%2526nqc%253DCABAAAAAABAAAAAAABAAAAIAAEBAIAEAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEA)**%2526nqt%253DCABAAAAAABAAAAAAABAAAAIAAEBAIAEAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAACGAAAAAAAAADAAAASAAAAgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEA**%2526ec%253D1%2526sojTags%253Des%253Des%252Cnqc%253Dnqc%252Cnqt%253Dnqt%252Cec%253Dec%252Cexe%253Dexe%252Cext%253Dext%252Cbu%253Dbu%252Cut%253Dut%2526srcrot%253De11010.m1951.l7534%2526rvr_id%253D0%2526rvr_ts%253D887e472d16c0ac7ac792372dfff7b5e4&ul_noapp=true
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Thanks for your comments. Did any of the FWB 300 variations come with an adjustable comb and/or butt plate? I’ve read about a 300 mini, are they adult size rifles or a junior sized gun? Is there a post or website that lists the variations and years of manufacture of the FWB 300? Sorry for all the questions, but I want to make sure I knows what I’m talking about when I make my purchase. Thanks again, Tom
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I've got a 300s Mini. Perfect gun for urban backyard. They have a reduced length of pull. The buttpad is adjustable but only up and down, no cant.
In the pic, the Mini is the blonde stock. The reddish one is a stock from a Chinese clone of a 300s. The walnut stock is a full size lefty 300s.
No barrel muzzle weights, barrel sleeves, and the smaller dimensions of the Mini stock shave quite a bit of overall weight.
I've scoped my Mini and it's my dedicated low-power, extreme accuracy, no fuss, no muss, zero complications (PCP) deadly accurate plinker.
I left the 300 with diopter sights and that's my 10 meter gun.
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Miss January or Miss February or Miss ---------------, decisions decisions? 8)
All of them will shoot better than you can. ;) :D
Find the one that shoulders the best FOR YOU.
-Y
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The 300s universal has a adjustable comb and butt pad. Check out
Vintage Airguns Gallery . Just scroll down until you get to FWB 300s.
One big thing ask is does it have a blue or green breech seal. The white
seal is a original seal and usally crumbling do to age. The blue and green seal are the good ones.
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On the FWB 300s. The running board model came with an thumbhole stock adjustable cheek piece and vertically adjustable butt plate. The only problem with it is that it doesn't have Provisions for iron sights. I wish I could provide pictures but mine are too high resolution in won't save here.
I've got one, made around 1980. Only thing that needs to be replaced are the standard piston and breech seals and mainspring on occasion.
Accuracy? Well... It's a 300s
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The FWB 300S is heavier but will give you more FPS than the 600 series. If you're going to shoot off hand the 600's would be more comfortable. I don't own a 603 but if you can afford it, get it. They're like Corvettes. They hold their value and you should be able to resell it at the same price you paid. As far as Jim E, I'm not here to bash the guy, I just want to let another forum member know what I went through before making a purchase. I paid $630 shipped for a FWB 300S with a busted spring shooting at 530 FPS. Sent him the pictures of the gun disassembled with the broken spring. I sent away for the rebuild kit $100 and asked for a refund and I would eat the labor and he said no. Ever notice how all his guns have 95% bluing and shoot 610 FPS? When he says the rifle is "unmolested" and the black on the checkering is missing, that's from an amateur refinish that he bought it from that didn't know how to color in the checkering. Stevie Wonder could this. Don't let him con you into thinking the whole gun is rebuilt because he put in a $9.00 green breech seal. I'm not the only one trust me. Just posting what I experienced to help another forum member from making a very expensive mistake. Can't speak for Carel as I never purchased from him
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Read a bit about the Walther LGR. THE FIRST SSP rifle to the competitive market. It put to rest the FWB 300 series rifles and made FWB develop the 600 series rifles which took ten years if I remember correctly. The Walther LGR was so accurate that it claimed two world records after it was introduced and was the reason that the size of the now standard Olympic target was reduced from prior. Probably the easiest SSP to scope and about 60% the cost of a 600 series.
I still claim that they are all more accurate than us. It comes down to which one feels most comfortable.
If you can’t tell, I love ten meter rifles!
+1 for the LGR - it was my first SSP rifle and agreed on the ease of scoping it. I too have an affinity for 10m rifles, but the LGR is the one I've shot the most. Another plus is if you scope it, a LDC can be added and it will be near silent for backyard plinking without impacting accuracy.
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I’ve heard that the LGRs are somewhat of a challenge to cock, i.e., take significantly more effort than a FWB 300. I’m 72, in good condition and want to put my energy into shooting, not cocking a rifle. Thanks, Tom
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I’d be interested and would appreciate hearings from others regarding theirs experiences purchasing from Jim E. and Carel. Send me a personal message, if you would prefer. Thanks very much, Tom
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I purchased my FWB 300s from Carel about a year ago. No problems, received the gun very quickly. Have been very happy with the gun.
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I have had 3 transactions with Jim E and no complaints. I emailed him looking for a rear sight and he responded that he did not have any. A week later one of his postings was altered with a lower price but no rear sight. The sight was listed separately, which I bought. Good marketing in my book.
In the future when I need something I will reach out to him first.
Mitch
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I have a FWB 300s rebuilt by Joe Rhea. (cyclops)
That gun is a 10M wonder with the peeps....and 25-30M scoped.
When people say "Boring Accurate" I just laugh... you have no idea.
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I’ve heard that the LGRs are somewhat of a challenge to cock, i.e., take significantly more effort than a FWB 300. I’m 72, in good condition and want to put my energy into shooting, not cocking a rifle. Thanks, Tom
Tom,
Full disclosure here. I have a LGR in the classifieds right now and don’t want to seem like I’m blowing sunshine but here’s my opinion. I’ve owned a 603, shot a 601 many times, I own a 300, and have shot many 300 s rifles. The LGR is different in that the charging stroke is almost 180 degrees on the charging handle where the 600 FWB series is maybe 95to 110 degrees. (I’m going from memory). I believe the reason that some say the lgr is harder is that you push the compression stroke whereas on the 600 guns you pull back to compress the air. I don’t think the force needed is all that different but the mechanics of are definitely different and I believe the 600 rifles have better mechanics making it seem easier and more comfortable. The spring guns (300 series) are different in that you pull back to load the spring and freely push forward to close the compression tube. It’s the pushing force forward of the lgr that feels funny to people. One you get used to it, it’s second nature. It’s just my take on it. I will say I think the lgr is 368% better looking than the 600 series and that’s saying something because I LOVE the FWB 600 series rifles. But dang they are a pain to scope. Hopefully some other lgr shooters will chime in with opinion.
Higgs
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I’ve decided on either a FWB 300S or 602. Now the challenge is finding one from my reputable seller. Any suggestions? Thanks, Tom
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There is a 601 on American Airguns classified now being sold by Jim E
http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/show_ad.php?adNum=180692&adSort=&StartingAd=0&NumberOfPages=4 (http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/show_ad.php?adNum=180692&adSort=&StartingAd=0&NumberOfPages=4)
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I’ve decided on either a FWB 300S or 602. Now the challenge is finding one from my reputable seller. Any suggestions? Thanks, Tom
Start hunting the classifieds or, hit an airgun show (my preference).
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I've had the Fwb300s and still have it. Great accuate shooter. Had the FWB601 another 600 series great shooter but do not expect the power of the FWB300S. Hard parts for the 300are getting hard to find.
FWB 601 very well fitted gun to the hand. Just the gate shutting gets to be a pain. I had no problems mounting a scope on that gun. I did make bushings to just the butt pad back later own. I did on the scope mounting have to cut the gate .
D75, Another wild Giss gun. I've had 3 of them and another lower powered 10m gun but accuate.
Walther LGR, 2 of them. Another fine shooter.
Too many great old warbirds out there. I have build all the above. The D75 is another hard to find hard parts for. I have had no problems on all the many I have built but 1. It came to me in a non working gun. It had really never been torn down but had have a part fall off. Someone had tried to put the part back in but jacked up some other settings.
Again with hard parts to find one can easily make a parts gun out of a good D75 if you do not know what your doing. Really one that knows the insides of that gun can still damage a main part.
All the above guns will at some time need rebuilt. The SSP guns are as PCP guns with seals and o rings. Not fun to rebuild.
A good built FWB300/300S should last a long time. You have many choices of the most accurate old warbirds 10m guns to choose from. As mentioned they will all out shoot you. Many under estimate a 6 fpe gun. Shot placement is no different that any gun on prey. JMHO and JME💀
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I have two 300S's and a 601. I much prefer to shoot the 300's but the 601 is worth 3-5 points on average in a benchrest match for me. BTW 300's are easy to work on and if taken care of will last generations.
I too bought a rifle from Jim E that had a broken spring. He told me that if I took it apart it was mine, but if I wanted I could send it back for a refund. My thoughts were that springs were cheaper than return shipping would cost more than springs, plus the gun was in a LH stock. So I kept it and put new springs in it. He did send me $20.
My 601 Came from Carel, great guy to deal with, ships fast and is usually cheaper on better quality rifles. I will do business with him again.
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I’d be interested and would appreciate hearings from others regarding theirs experiences purchasing from Jim E. and Carel. Send me a personal message, if you would prefer. Thanks very much, Tom
PM sent.
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Both great guys. You can blame JE on u taking it apart. I have no ideal what your dealing with him really was. But nothing but good out of him. The $20 refund was fair but I would have thought the return would have been in him till he saw the issue. But that's nine of my business.
Now Carel, Great guy‼️ I have dealt with Carel for years. Spoken over the telephone many times and emails.
I have bought guns from him and yes he is straight up.
He also has guns shipped to me for repair in a situation as yours for me to fix or damaged in shipping. He pays me the labor and shipping. And I'm sure the buyer gets his shipping back but that I'm not for sure. He and I have even swapped my labor for gun projects he has. All ended up great.
Bottom line there are many great people selling and working guns in this hobby.
If the truth is to be known there is little profit in repairs when one takes great efforts to do a clean true repair.
I allow the owner to supply the parts. Direct shipped to me. I make no money off parts unless I have them on the shelf. Even custom made items end up with more material cost and time than the selling price at times. Tooling cost money. Yes your tooling may last a long time but some times they do not. Then the replacement cost of the replacement us on the rebuilder.
I've not got a bucket of tar and snake oils I use. Nor a brake hone. Lol 💀
Like I said both guys are straight in the FANGS book. 💀 There's more to a rebuild than parts and lubes done right.
I'd buy from either one with confidence 👍JMO
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I bought my 601 from Carel, I would not hesitate to order again from him. Have bought a small item from Jim E. it too, was pleasant transaction.
BobH.
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I will toss Joe Rhea's name into the hat.
He knows his 300's and many others.
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Jim E buys guns from halfway around the world that he knows nothing about and flips them here for a profit. If you ask him in detail about the gun, he can't answer it. He's not the original owner. What does he own them for, 3-5 days? It's not like you're buying a gun from someone who has owned it for years and can tell you what was done to it. If you think he rips down each gun he gets to inspect it, I got a bridge for sale. Everything here I said is true. Not one gun is from a private collection.
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I have two 300S's and a 601. I much prefer to shoot the 300's but the 601 is worth 3-5 points on average in a benchrest match for me. BTW 300's are easy to work on and if taken care of will last generations.
I too bought a rifle from Jim E that had a broken spring. He told me that if I took it apart it was mine, but if I wanted I could send it back for a refund. My thoughts were that springs were cheaper than return shipping would cost more than springs, plus the gun was in a LH stock. So I kept it and put new springs in it. He did send me $20.
My 601 Came from Carel, great guy to deal with, ships fast and is usually cheaper on better quality rifles. I will do business with him again.
Right! That's my point! You sell FWB's on a daily basis for $500-$600 a clip and don't pass them over a $68 Chrony? He buys guns halfway around the world that he knows nothing about and flips them here to us.
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Higgs,
I also love my 603 Feinverkbaugh. My previous 10 meter was PCP Anshutz 2002. I prefer the SSP 603. I like the mechanics on single stroke over PCP. It just feels like a close relationship to the incredible mechanics of the product. When I test it at 10 meters sand bagges, I average 10.6 groups with H and N Final match. This equals the accuracy of my previous Anshutz.
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Still new to this and trying to figure the site out. Just purchased a FWB 602, shoots great. However I seem to have a slight issue with the charging handle, it will rise up about an inch and won't release to be cocked. If I put it back to the starting position a couple of times I am able to cock it then. Anyone ever experience tthe or is it an easy fix. I appreciate any input.
Thanks in advance
Len.........
FWB 300S
FWB 602
FWB 90S
HW 95
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Check your pm's!
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I bought my 601 from Carel, I would not hesitate to order again from him. Have bought a small item from Jim E. it too, was pleasant transaction.
BobH.
Both those guys seem to be the go to guys for those type of airguns. I suggest contacting both.
Also, keep you eye open and continue to look at various classified adds. Figure out exactly what you want and how much you want to spend, then wait it it is available.
-Y
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There is a FWB 300s looks new in the box on American airgun classifieds
Not cheap but I bet it sells
Dennis
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There's a 300S Universal on AA right now, too; and it's a bit less expensive. Type 1 stock, both cheek risers, flared and straight grip caps, sights. Nice looking rifle.
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All of the rifles you mention are perfect for 10m shooting of course.
They are all Olympic champions.
They are also suited for short-range, pistol distance, silhouette shooting.
At air rifle distances the ram is at 45 yards.
Your intended rifles, unless modified with higher power springs will run out of gas before reaching the target.
There are exceptions but most silly wet shooters shoot around 20fpe for the rifle ranges.
I bought mine from JimE.
I had to clean it up bit but, it shoots fine:
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I have the FWB 300S, Beeman 400 [Diana 75], and the FWB 602. I initially scoped the FWB 300S and the Beeman 400; I did not scope the FWB 602, mainly because of difficulty in getting a new loading gate to modify. So I shoot the FWB 602 with the OEM sights and decided I liked that so much I put the OEM sights back on the other 2. I currently have a Gehman adjustable aperture with a 1.5X diopter and 6 colors on order that I will use on each rifle. I am almost 70. I like the FWB 300S the best, but find it and and the Beeman to be a bit heavy, for me, for true 10M shooting. The FWB 602 is a tad lighter and I tend to pick it up and use it more simply because of that. All were competition rifles. I had a custom soft adjustable comb made for the FWB 300S by my trap stock guy.
As noted by everyone, all of these rifles will shoot very, very well at 10M. I wouldn't sell any of them, but if I could only keep one it would be the FWB 300S hands down, every day.
Have fun. I do suggest an adjustable aperture if not shooting a scope.
Mike
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Well late to the party here, but that never stopped me from spouting off before, LOL.
I've never owned one of the FWB SSPs, so can't comment very much on those. Their chief advantage is not greater physical accuracy, but being easier to shoot well. They have reduced "shot time," superior ergonomics, and a greater degree of adjustability than older spring-piston designs.
I did have a Diana 75 for a while (AKA "Beeman 400"). The double-piston recoilless system in those is quite amazing, but to me the downside was it made for a very long and heavy action, with the weight bias toward the rear. I found other guns easier to shoot well offhand.
I own four of the FWB 300/300S series, and they are fantastic guns. The physical design is under-stressed and over-engineered to say the least, LOL. The only perishable parts are the breech seal and piston bumper, and - after a LOT of shooting - the springs. If you have one with new-ish springs and seals, you probably won't have to mess with it for years. And as mentioned, they usually do shoot harder than the SSP guns, a healthy 300S will move light pellets over 650 fps.
Most 300S's have a full-length barrel with an epoxied-on weight sleeve, and they are quite heavy (note - the fat part at the end of the barrel is NOT a separate weight; it's part of the sleeve). As noted above, a gun without the sleeve, or a "Mini" (shorter barrel with no sleeve), can be a much more pleasant vehicle for less formal shooting.
Here is my current baby - a Mini action in a full-size 300SL stock (the "L" was a limited-production model; the stock is similar to the later Universals, but without the changeable comb height). I usually shoot with aperture sights, but currently have a cheap 2.5x Tasco Bantam shotgun scope on it as a lark. Yesterday I shot some 20-yard groups with JSB Exact 7.9's you can cover with a dime...not too shabby for a half-blind old guy, LOL.
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I have the FWB 300S, Beeman 400 [Diana 75], and the FWB 602. I initially scoped the FWB 300S and the Beeman 400; I did not scope the FWB 602, mainly because of difficulty in getting a new loading gate to modify. So I shoot the FWB 602 with the OEM sights and decided I liked that so much I put the OEM sights back on the other 2. I currently have a Gehman adjustable aperture with a 1.5X diopter and 6 colors on order that I will use on each rifle. I am almost 70. I like the FWB 300S the best, but find it and and the Beeman to be a bit heavy, for me, for true 10M shooting. The FWB 602 is a tad lighter and I tend to pick it up and use it more simply because of that. All were competition rifles. I had a custom soft adjustable comb made for the FWB 300S by my trap stock guy.
As noted by everyone, all of these rifles will shoot very, very well at 10M. I wouldn't sell any of them, but if I could only keep one it would be the FWB 300S hands down, every day.
Mike,
I also like adjustable rear aperatue. I also bought then for Williams peep sights. I still gotta try colored filters.
Have fun. I do suggest an adjustable aperture if not shooting a scope.
Mike
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Mike,
I also like adjustable rear aperatue. I also bought then for Williams peep sights. I still gotta try colored filters.
Have fun. I do suggest an adjustable aperture if not shooting a scope.
Mike
The Heinz Reinkemeier animations on adjustable irises and etc are very informative.
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Ctfish, that is a great site. The adjustable front iris is new to me, but looks interesting.
Thanks.
Mike