GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Guns And Related Accessories Review Gates => Air Gun Review Gate => Topic started by: UlteriorModem on July 24, 2019, 09:59:32 PM
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Well well! the ASP20 arrived today! .22 Caliber in the synthetic stock. I actually got a chance to shoot about 70 rounds or so through it before I ran out of daylight :)
In a word, excellent! It has a nice balance, crisp sharp action, a very good trigger, very accurate, and consistent. A real pleasure to shoot!
Details ;)
The gun shoulders nicely and is a little heavier than what I am used to. But not overly so. I like the balance point.
Cocking effort is quite reasonable and the low pivot point helps with that. A wierd quirk is that the barrel has what seems to be some slop when it is broken open. However it locks up very nicely and is solid as a rock. I understand this is by design. They keystone wedge really works a treat!
The trigger. I like the trigger right out of the box. A well defined short first stage, and the second stage while maybe a touch hard pull is crisp, clean, and extremly predictable. No need to change a thing for me!
Shot cycle is very fast and sharp. I can tell right now that the ASP20 can be a scope killer! The flip up dust cap on the rear of the scope popped off at one point and bounced off my glasses. Scared me good :) Whatever scope you put on the gun make darn sure it is springer rated. I like the welded on Weaver rail. Makes sure the scope will stay in place in spite of the sharp recoil.
Accuracy.. I think I said the word WoW more than once. Dime sized groups out at 30 yards! And it is not even broken in yet! I shot JSB Jumbo Exacts. No chrony numbers yet, it's still breaking in and dieseling just a bit. It only took a few minutes to get the scope zeroed in. Though it is still wandering just a tad due to not being broken in and the dieseling. I did find it is somewhat sensative to the shouldering pressure, but not nearly as much as some of the other springers.
Sound level. Yea it is a bit loud. I did not take any sound level readings yet but will get to it soon. I think some of the loudness is due to the fact it is still deiseling.
The only slight 'con' I have found so far is in seating the pellets. The pellet head drops right in but it is very VERY hard to seat the pellet. If you get this gun get a seating tool, your going to need one! I presume this will get better with break in. The lead is very nice and clean. I could not inspect the crown as the moderator is permanantly affixed and you just cant see it. But given the consistancy it is probably just fine.
First impressions my conclusion. Very impressed. The ASP20 is leaps and bounds superior to my Benji springers. After so much frustrationj with them it is nice to have springer that brings a smile to my face!
I will get more data soon as to some chrony numbers, trying different pellets, and sound levels.
Thanks for reading! If you have any questions or comments please feel free to add them!
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Nice mini review, Tom. Thanks for sharing. Are you able to compare the Sig to a Diana 34 or a Weihrauch HW 95? I'm sure there's no comparison to a Crosman. Any further questions I would have would involve disassembly. I'm curious about the internal construction. I like the European springers but it would be nice to see some American competition for quality and workmanship.
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No I am afraid not. If you want to send me one to compare I would be more than happy to do so :D
All I have is two Benji's A Titan NP and a Mayhem NP2. Both pretty good guns but dang hard to shoot!
Hope I don't have to open it up for a long time! There might be some tear down videos around but I haven't seen any!
I plan to continue to shoot it 'stock' for quite a while. I can say the machining is quite good. Clean finishes, good fits.
Have not seen a blemish anywhere. Then again I have only had it out for like an hour so far. But from what I can tell it is machined and assembled very well.
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Well well! the ASP20 arrived today! .22 Caliber in the synthetic stock. I actually got a chance to shoot about 70 rounds or so through it before I ran out of daylight :)
In a word, excellent! It has a nice balance, crisp sharp action, a very good trigger, very accurate, and consistent. A real pleasure to shoot!
Details ;)
The gun shoulders nicely and is a little heavier than what I am used to. But not overly so. I like the balance point.
Cocking effort is quite reasonable and the low pivot point helps with that. A wierd quirk is that the barrel has what seems to be some slop when it is broken open. However it locks up very nicely and is solid as a rock. I understand this is by design. They keystone wedge really works a treat!
The trigger. I like the trigger right out of the box. A well defined short first stage, and the second stage while maybe a touch hard pull is crisp, clean, and extremly predictable. No need to change a thing for me!
Shot cycle is very fast and sharp. I can tell right now that the ASP20 can be a scope killer! The flip up dust cap on the rear of the scope popped off at one point and bounced off my glasses. Scared me good :) Whatever scope you put on the gun make darn sure it is springer rated. I like the welded on Weaver rail. Makes sure the scope will stay in place in spite of the sharp recoil.
Accuracy.. I think I said the word WoW more than once. Dime sized groups out at 30 yards! And it is not even broken in yet! I shot JSB Jumbo Exacts. No chrony numbers yet, it's still breaking in and dieseling just a bit. It only took a few minutes to get the scope zeroed in. Though it is still wandering just a tad due to not being broken in and the dieseling. I did find it is somewhat sensative to the shouldering pressure, but not nearly as much as some of the other springers.
Sound level. Yea it is a bit loud. I did not take any sound level readings yet but will get to it soon. I think some of the loudness is due to the fact it is still deiseling.
The only slight 'con' I have found so far is in seating the pellets. The pellet head drops right in but it is very VERY hard to seat the pellet. If you get this gun get a seating tool, your going to need one! I presume this will get better with break in. The lead is very nice and clean. I could not inspect the crown as the moderator is permanantly affixed and you just cant see it. But given the consistancy it is probably just fine.
First impressions my conclusion. Very impressed. The ASP20 is leaps and bounds superior to my Benji springers. After so much frustrationj with them it is nice to have springer that brings a smile to my face!
I will get more data soon as to some chrony numbers, trying different pellets, and sound levels.
Thanks for reading! If you have any questions or comments please feel free to add them!
Really appreciate this review. This sounds very good the AG community.
Archie
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Nice mini review, Tom. Thanks for sharing. Are you able to compare the Sig to a Diana 34 or a Weihrauch HW 95? I'm sure there's no comparison to a Crosman. Any further questions I would have would involve disassembly. I'm curious about the internal construction. I like the European springers but it would be nice to see some American competition for quality and workmanship.
It is build quality wise as good an RWS or Weihrauch. They are a smoother shot cycle than any RWS I've shot. The finish is not as pretty as the polished blueing on Weihrachs, but is more durable for a hunting gun. Accuracy is as good as my HW97 (12 ft lb Motorhead tuned), but a little more hold sensitive, probably just the power difference.
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Cliff, is yours as hard to 'load' a pellet as my .22 is?
The head of the pellet drops right in partway but then it takes considerable force to seat it. It is as if the lead is choked or something?
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Tom, you say it is a very good trigger. What rifles, besides the 2 Chinese ones you mentioned owning, have you shot to compare it to? Have you shot a T06 trigger? T05? Rekord? Tuna trigger? How does it compare to those? How did you load the pellets to maintain a consistent seating depth?
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Tom, you say it is a very good trigger. What rifles, besides the 2 Chinese ones you mentioned owning, have you shot to compare it to? Have you shot a T06 trigger? T05? Rekord? Tuna trigger? How does it compare to those? How did you load the pellets to maintain a consistent seating depth?
The Benji Titan (Trail)l has a GRTIII installed, and the Mayhem has a CBR in it. I like the CDT triggers but find them a bit 'mushy' there not as consistent as the one in the ASP20. But there a far sight better than the ones that come with those guns. No problems with trigger jerking or misfires as you know precisely where it will let go.
To seat the pellets. I use a pellet pen with an adjustable setting tool on the other end. Very handy little gizmos. Frankly I dont think I could seat a pellet fully into the ASP20 without one! Even if I could it would not be long before I had very sore fingers.
Make sure you get the MKII version as the original did not have the adjustable seating tool. I have mine adjusted so it just barely seats the skrt into the lead. Like a mm or less. If you change pellets you will have to re-adjust iit, but that is very easy with a 1/8" flat blade screw driver.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/pellet-pen-with-pellet-seater-loads-seats-22-cal-pellets?a=4870 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/pellet-pen-with-pellet-seater-loads-seats-22-cal-pellets?a=4870)
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Tom, you say it is a very good trigger. What rifles, besides the 2 Chinese ones you mentioned owning, have you shot to compare it to? Have you shot a T06 trigger? T05? Rekord? Tuna trigger? How does it compare to those? How did you load the pellets to maintain a consistent seating depth?
The Benji Titan (Trail)l has a GRTIII installed, and the Mayhem has a CBR in it. I like the CDT triggers but find them a bit 'mushy' there not as consistent as the one in the ASP20. But there a far sight better than the ones that come with those guns. No problems with trigger jerking or misfires as you know precisely where it will let go.
To seat the pellets. I use a pellet pen with an adjustable setting tool on the other end. Very handy little gizmos. Frankly I dont think I could seat a pellet fully into the ASP20 without one! Even if I could it would not be long before I had very sore fingers.
Make sure you get the MKII version as the original did not have the adjustable seating tool. I have mine adjusted so it just barely seats the skrt into the lead. Like a mm or less. If you change pellets you will have to re-adjust iit, but that is very easy with a 1/8" flat blade screw driver.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/pellet-pen-with-pellet-seater-loads-seats-22-cal-pellets?a=4870 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/pellet-pen-with-pellet-seater-loads-seats-22-cal-pellets?a=4870)
Thank you for the quick reply. I'm waiting until PA gets the .22 synthetic in stock, if I don't like it, their return policy is excellent.
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Just came in from putting a few more pellets down the pipe. Did a little target practice.
This is by no means an outstanding score, but it is a lot better than I have been shooting springers lately, the gun is still breaking in, I am still getting used to the gun and what hold it likes best. Also I kind of create a vacuum when shooting springers :D
All the shots that were way high were due to too much shoulder pressure!
ASP20 .22 cal at 30 yards with JSB Exact Jumbo 15.89gr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48375606896_712bbcf29f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gGMCxS)ASP20 7-25-19 (https://flic.kr/p/2gGMCxS) by Tom Whit (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152306872@N04/), on Flickr
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Cliff, is yours as hard to 'load' a pellet as my .22 is?
The head of the pellet drops right in partway but then it takes considerable force to seat it. It is as if the lead is choked or something?
Mine loads okay. They don't just fall in like my R7 (they also fall out if you aren't careful closing that one). Mine is .177 and likes H+N Barracudas. I've only ever shot the Baracudas and Crosman 10.5's out of it.
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Mine loads jsb pellets and they just barely go I with firm finger pressure.
None of my h&n or other testing pellets load so easily.
It shoots the jsb 15.89 really really well for me so I just stick with those.
I do have an hw95 to compare it to, and have done so on other similar threads.
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Yea I haven't really gotten down to pellet testing yet. I actually started with some H&N FTT but found them hard to seat so switched to JSB Jumbo Exacts which were also hard to shoot but they did quite well and have stuck with them so far. Will probably try some different brands and types over the weekend. Seen a few reviews where the gun tends to like the heavier pellets so I will check that out.
Found a slightly loose stock screw (rear screw) after I shot the score I posted above. So maybe things will tighten up (forgive the pun). :)
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Got around to doing some pellet testing this afternoon. Although it was a bit breezy, and I strived to be consistent, I think the results are fairly good and relevant.
The first group bottom left had more shots making sure the scope was "zerod" I had taken it off to put new rings on and found out I ordered the wrong size rings. ::)
Once I had the scope zeroed with the JSB pellets I did not change zero for any of the other groups. I was somewhat surprised that the POI did not change all that much in spite of the different pellets and weights.
Shot at 30 yards in .22 calibre. Off a bench front bag rested. Not even artillary hold ;)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48381992256_9f5391a6ee_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gHmmGh)Pellet test 07-26-19 (https://flic.kr/p/2gHmmGh) by Tom Whit (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152306872@N04/), on Flickr
In case you cant read them...
Bottom Left: JSB Jumbo Exacts 15.89gr
Bottom Right: H&N FTT 14.66 gr
Center: Crosman CPDUMs 14.3 gr
Top Left : JSB Jumbo HEAVY 18.13gr
Top Right : H&N Sniper Magnums 17.9gr
Observations.
The winner was the H&N FTT in spite of them being one of the hardest to seat.
The loser was the CPDUM's no real surprise there.
Runner up was the JSB Jumbo Exacts.
Interestingly the JSB Jumbo Heavy's turned out to be the easiest to seat! :o
Hope you may find this useful info :D and thanks for reading.
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I would retest those JSB heavys again. Looks like you may have had wind problems with that group.
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I would retest those JSB heavys again. Looks like you may have had wind problems with that group.
Or a loose nut behind the trigger :D
Thanks yea I will give them another run. The H&N require a considerable force to seat.
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Just wanted to check back in and report that indeed it does seem to like the JSB Heavy's! Thanks Cliff!
The more I shoot this gun the more I like it. Starting to get a hang of how it likes to be held and the trigger pull now.
One quirk I have found is that the rear stock screw (its the screw in the front of the trigger guard) tends to work loose. I checked it yesterday and found it a little loose. Checked it again today and once again it was a little loose. That's after somewhere around 100 rounds.
I am going to try to put some blue Loctite on it. Hope that doesn't void the warranty :D
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Just a FYI , never adjust any other nut or screw on a gun, when the nut beehind the trigger has been lubricated with alcohol ;D 8) ;) :o ??? ::) :-[
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Heh... good advishe! ;D I have been known to do that.
A quick update. The rear stock screw continued to loosen up after 60 or so rounds. The screws on the side of the stock are good and tight and havent moved. Decided to pull out the rear screw and put some blue Loctite on it.
It is the screw at the front of the trigger guard. It came out quite easly and appeard to have some sort of thread locking stuff on it. It was a light brown / tan color. Evidently it did not work very well.
Cleaned that stuff off with a knife blade and a brass brush. Applied the blue locktite and fastened it in snugly and let it sit overnight. Hope to put several rounds through it today and then check the screw again. But I think it will work.
Just a reminder to check the dog gone screws! :D
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You might have a look and see which head size FTT's you have and maybe try one size smaller.
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You might have a look and see which head size FTT's you have and maybe try one size smaller.
It seems that all pellets with the exception of the Jumbo Heavys are hard to seat. Even CPDUMs. I will have to check the head sizes.
But like I said the actuall heads go in easly till about the small part of the skirt. Then they have to be 'forced' in to be fully seated.
Here is a picture of the Lead. Note how the rifling does not start until a few millimeters into the breech!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48397091457_ac7e28767d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gJFKak)20190728_130029 (https://flic.kr/p/2gJFKak) by Tom Whit (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152306872@N04/), on Flickr
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I wonder if it's the head hitting the rifling or the skirt passing the breech that is the source of the resistance when pushing a pellet in.
I'm not allowed to pick mine up right now (just had back surgery) but I'll have to check mine for where the rifling starts when I can. You sure got a nice picture of your breech and leade there.
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Thanks the Galaxy S8 does an outstanding job with Macro shots.
You can also click the picture then click it again for a really close up view :D It is a little disappointing at that level of magnification though ::)
Pretty sure it is the head of the pellet being pressed into the rifling as the resistance starts before the skirt is in the lead.
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How you still liking it? I got one coming tomorrow and am pretty excited for it!
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How you still liking it? I got one coming tomorrow and am pretty excited for it!
I still like it. Probably over a thousand rounds through it without a hiccup. It is hard hitting and quite consistant given you can get a repeatable hold. It is very finicky about shoulder pressure. But then again so are most magnum springers.
defiantly prefers the heavier pellets. But as I pointed out you will probably want some sort of pellet seating tool. Maybe mine was just tight but for some pellets I could not seat them without some sort of tool.
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Good deal! Yeah I figured being a magnum it'll take more concentration to shoot very consistent which I'm looking forward to as my PCPs have spoiled me. I heard there leade can be tighter but I have JSBs and AA pellets that I plan on shooting through it so hopefully shouldn't be too bad.
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I highly recommend one of these ;)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/pellet-pen-with-pellet-seater-loads-seats-22-cal-pellets?a=4870 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/pellet-pen-with-pellet-seater-loads-seats-22-cal-pellets?a=4870)
Make sure you get the one that has an adjustable pellet seater.
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Thanks for that!
I got it and was able to shoot one pellet through it right before I left back to work and I used a Hades and it seated very nicely. Can't say it took anymore pressure than any other springer I've shot. So maybe yours is alittle more snug? Or maybe the leade isn't long enough? Regardless first impressions was a super smooth cocking gun and not difficult at all for me. The trigger surprised me with how light it felt compared to what I was expecting from other reviews. Very crisp break also. And the shot cycle of the gun felt great! I'm really excited to get it scoped up and start shooting it more.
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I think that these Sig Saeur ASP20 rifles with a synthetic stock.... is the absolute bomb ! (A dream come true in a really hard core hunting rifle)
Best Wishes - Tom
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You might have a look and see which head size FTT's you have and maybe try one size smaller.
It seems that all pellets with the exception of the Jumbo Heavys are hard to seat. Even CPDUMs. I will have to check the head sizes.
But like I said the actuall heads go in easly till about the small part of the skirt. Then they have to be 'forced' in to be fully seated.
Here is a picture of the Lead. Note how the rifling does not start until a few millimeters into the breech!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48397091457_ac7e28767d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gJFKak)20190728_130029 (https://flic.kr/p/2gJFKak) by Tom Whit (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152306872@N04/), on Flickr
I recently bought the ASP20 from Dairyboy. Have been following reviews like many others here. After reading your pellet experience, I thought I would try something else, and gave those second-rate Crossman domed pellets from Wally World. What did I have to lose, plus....they are softer lead. Well....they seated great. After dialing in my scope at 28yds, I ran three 5-shot groups at some two-inch targets. The pattern was not at all what I was expecting from the lowest grade pellets you can buy. I can cover all three sets with my shirt button !! Shot three more sets. There isn't one in the bunch that a dime won't cover. This gun rivals all of my higher end shooters. I'd say I'm staying with the cheapies for now. Still shaking my head.......
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Resurrecting a dead ish post. Does any one have chronic numbers from the asp20 .22?
I am going to be running the jsb 15.89 and the hades. I don't have a chronograph and need a base line for chairgun.
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Resurrecting a dead ish post. Does any one have chronic numbers from the asp20 .22?
I am going to be running the jsb 15.89 and the hades. I don't have a chronograph and need a base line for chairgun.
I had some but cant put my finger on them right now. If I get a chance today I will run a string. Not sure I have any of the 15.89's but will look.
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Resurrecting a dead ish post. Does any one have chronic numbers from the asp20 .22?
I am going to be running the jsb 15.89 and the hades. I don't have a chronograph and need a base line for chairgun.
Don't know if your still interested in this or not but here are a few strings for you :)
I know it says ASP29 but that was a typo that got replicated.
Created: 07-28-2019 02:51:27 PM
Description: ASP29 JSB jumbo heavy
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 2.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 18.130
Altitude (FT): 200.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
10 759 23.20 13.76
9 752 22.77 13.63
8 757 23.07 13.72
7 749 22.59 13.58
6 748 22.53 13.56
5 755 22.95 13.69
4 749 22.59 13.58
3 759 23.20 13.76
2 752 22.77 13.63
1 746 22.41 13.52
Average: 752.60
StdDev: 4.70
Min: 746
Max: 759
Spread: 13
True MV: 752.77
Shots/sec: 0.03
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Created: 07-28-2019 03:05:22 PM
Description: ASP29 H&N FTT 14.66gr
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 2.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 14.660
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
10 855 23.80 12.53
9 861 24.14 12.62
8 854 23.74 12.52
7 865 24.36 12.68
6 861 24.14 12.62
5 866 24.42 12.70
4 856 23.86 12.55
3 857 23.91 12.56
2 857 23.91 12.56
1 857 23.91 12.56
Average: 858.90
StdDev: 4.15
Min: 854
Max: 866
Spread: 12
True MV: 859.09
Shots/sec: 0.03
Group Size (IN): 0.00
Created: 07-28-2019 03:12:27 PM
Description: ASP29 H&N FTT 14.66gr
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 2.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 14.660
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
10 856 23.86 12.55
9 850 23.52 12.46
8 853 23.69 12.50
7 846 23.30 12.40
6 857 23.91 12.56
5 857 23.91 12.56
4 851 23.58 12.48
3 857 23.91 12.56
2 857 23.91 12.56
1 855 23.80 12.53
Average: 853.90
StdDev: 3.81
Min: 846
Max: 857
Spread: 11
True MV: 854.09
Shots/sec: 0.02
Group Size (IN): 0.00
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Thanks. I really need to get a chronograph.