GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Projectiles => Boolit and Pellet Casting => Topic started by: Insanity on July 14, 2019, 04:56:17 PM
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So no surprise I didnt have a good start i expected it. I casted 4 pellets in all of my efforts and only managed to lead up my mold. After all of that I made my muffin tin ingots into 1 pound ingots.
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WHAT????
In close to 50 years of casting I've never seen a mold look like that!!
I've seen a brass mold 'tin' and have problems but that is an aluminum mold.
Something is contaminated somewhere....
Is that dross / flux on the mold? Lead is just not going to do that. Could have been something on the surface of the mold, did you solvent clean or hot soapy water boil the blocks first?
I've learned that trying to use reclaimed pellets can be a problem as many are NOT pure lead and can ruin your alloy.
ESPECIALLY if you add lead free pellets to lead alloy, that could be it too.
That entire batch of lead may have to be dumped
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I cleaned them with soap and hot water. The lead is of question but I think it is pure lead. I did do a heat cycle on it and started with a hot mold. I did flux the lead prior to and it was sticking bad and only got worse so I tried to heat the mold in the lead to try and get it to melt off. That didnt help as you see. So I will clean it and try again.
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How did you get so much lead on the flat mating surfaces between the halves?
How did you heat the mold? Is it possible it was too hot?
Did you smoke the mold after you cleaned it?
How were you pouring?
I'm a novice myself but i just can't imagine a scenario that would cause that.
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Looks like zinc contamination to me. When you poured the molten metal did it look like oat meal consistency to you. Zinc will stick to anything and be flaky. You have some kind of contamination in your metal to do that. Did you melt wheel weights. A lot of them are now zinc instead of lead.
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That lead is no good and by the looks of it the mold isn't anymore either. I see plates from old car batteries lying on the ground in one of those photos. Never use anything like that for casting pellets. Pure lead only. I've never used anything to heat molds except placing the mold on top of the melter to warm it up some. It's obviously been contaminated with some mix of bad stuff.
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I tried to melt the car battery down and it is not in the lead just trash now. I think the lead I have is junk to begin with. I warmed it up on a hot plate used a temp probe on my multimeter to 400~ the melt started to stick immediately. I smoked the cavities and they are not contaminated, just every other part is...
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When I first got into casting I tried melting down a fishing weight, or something resembling one, it wasn’t my first time casting so I could tell something was wrong. It was a very time consuming process to separate all the dross from my good lead. I ended up discarding a few lbs worth of lead as a result.
Good luck getting all the lead off, if I found myself in desperate need of pure lead, or at least usable lead I would probably buy a bag of lead shot.
I once tried reclaiming lead from a car battery, I didn’t recover enough from it to even bother melting it. It was some kind of mesh, not much there.
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When I first got into casting I tried melting down a fishing weight, or something resembling one, it wasn’t my first time casting so I could tell something was wrong. It was a very time consuming process to separate all the dross from my good lead. I ended up discarding a few lbs worth of lead as a result.
Good luck getting all the lead off, if I found myself in desperate need of pure lead, or at least usable lead I would probably buy a bag of lead shot.
I once tried reclaiming lead from a car battery, I didn’t recover enough from it to even bother melting it. It was some kind of mesh, not much there.
Lead shot tends to be expensive though.
Anything over $100 at Rotometals is free shipping.
https://www.rotometals.com/pure-soft-lead-metal-99-9-5-pound-ingot/ (https://www.rotometals.com/pure-soft-lead-metal-99-9-5-pound-ingot/)
https://www.rotometals.com/1-to-40-bullet-alloy-ingot-5-pounds-97-5-lead-2-5-tin/ (https://www.rotometals.com/1-to-40-bullet-alloy-ingot-5-pounds-97-5-lead-2-5-tin/)
For BigBore I use 1:40 alloy but for .25 and down I use one ingot of pure and one of 1:40 blended together (gives about 1.25% tin for better fill out) [ 10lbs of lead casts about 2000 .25 pellets so buying it is not that bad for better than the mostly junk pellets sold today ]
Noticed it's on sale right now
Salvaged lead, wheel weights, etc are just too much of an unknown and always take a lot of extra effort to make 'right'. For me, just not worth it any more.
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I think I'll order 10 15 pounds of lead from roto metals and clean this mess up. I hope Wayne isn't right and the mold is junk.
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I see that right now Rotometals has the split pig ingot of 99.9% pure lead for $119 shipped.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1761/42255790505_15624c2ae1_b.jpg)
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Matt I hope the mold is still ok, bamboo picks would probably work if anything would to clean that mold up. Brake cleaner might help in the process but it looks like you've got your work cut out for you trying to clean it up.
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Remove the brackets and try hitting the mould in sessions with a portable propane torch while knocking off the excess. It should clean up with some effort. Close the halves together for a while if it gets too hot to maintain the shape, form and alignment while letting cool down some.
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It would appear you have Zinc contamination. GRRRR!
I Can't for the life of me understand how the blocks got all of that on the surfaces. Unless you heated the molds in the lead, and they opened. Allowing the Zinc to weld.
Never buy lead made from wheel weights. Too high a chance of getting Zink. And even if not, the antimony in it will cause the pellets to age harden. Not good. Not good at all.
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It would appear you have Zinc contamination. GRRRR!
I Can't for the life of me understand how the blocks got all of that on the surfaces. Unless you heated the molds in the lead, and they opened. Allowing the Zinc to weld.
Never buy lead made from wheel weights. Too high a chance of getting Zink. And even if not, the antimony in it will cause the pellets to age harden. Not good. Not good at all.
I had sticking issues that then kept the mold halfs open so I noobed it into the lead in Hope's it would melt off. Clearly that did not work out well for me.
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Crosman CPUM are on sale at Walmart for $5 and change.... :o
Just kidding, I know I don't have the patience for casting anything except a fishing pole.
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Back side of the ingots mind you I had to use my dipper 3 4 times to fill each section. The structure on the surface dose not look right to me.
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Holy smokes , there’s gold in there . :P
Hope you get that mold cleaned out.
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Good news with light scraping on the flats with a razor blade and picking with a toothpick in the cavitys it is slowly coming clean. Still some more work to do but going slow aught to help and not mar the more important surfaces.
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Never did any casting. How expensive are these mold?
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This one was 103 from NOE I think it was 118 shipped then the other bits and bobs 158 now for lead I'll have a few more into pure lead.
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Current state of the mold. It seems that this half I tried to heat up and then use a soldering iron and solder wick only made it harder to remove. That method did not work because the aluminum was pulling heat away way too quickly for it to even melt the surface. Even with my soldering station set to 900°f.
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Normally lead does not stick to aluminum.... so I'm guessing your "lead" was contaminated with some other metal.... I have no idea how to clean that mould….
Bob
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Normally lead does not stick to aluminum.... so I'm guessing your "lead" was contaminated with some other metal.... I have no idea how to clean that mould….
Bob
So far manually I dont think anymore heat will help maybe dip it in a pot of pure lead and hope it amalgams.
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You run the risk of warping a block if you heat it too much. Keeping two blocks pressed together as you heat mostly prevents this but you can't because of the trash on the faces.
Risky, but you might try heating, with caution, slowly increasing temp, with a propane torch to try to get enough heat to melt the crud without heating the aluminum too much. A soldering iron is just not going to put out enough heat as you're finding out.
For future reference, I do dip the front lower corners of both blocks where they are held together by the handle into the melt about a 1/4" for about 20 seconds to get to casting temp but am careful not to overheat AND to not let a gap happen as I hold them there.
Your problem is mostly from a really bad alloy.
We live and learn, don't give up, casting really is worth it once you get over the learning curve.
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Light electrolysis is probably the way that I would go but I've used electrolysis extensively and you have to be really careful when doing it because too much on aluminum destroys it, brass, copper, silver all clean up pretty good but aluminum you have to do just a little at a time or it will start eating up the aluminum. Zinc is the worst and will contaminate the electrolyte that you're using like right now. Pure gold (24K) it won't even phase it but anything that's stuck to it will disappear.
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I am reluctant to add any heat at all and I am not sure placing the mold halves in the melt is a good idea but it was a thought nonetheless. I lean by doing so now I know. I would really like to get good at casting because it will help save money on not buying expensive tins of pellets.
Wayne I have no experience in electrolysis but have researched it in the past. It never crossed my mind and I wont do it for two reasons 1 being I dont have the equipment and 2 I dont have the experience. Sure I have a battery charger but that is nothing like a properly controlled unit.
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I finally went to the inlaws and picked up my thermometer its a unbranded RCBS sold by rotometals. I also cleaned out my pellet trap not because I wanted to smelt that mess down but because I shot the lip of the lid to snot and it was leaking rubber mulch with every shot. So I have 5 or so pounds to smelt and try to learn with mostly JSB and crosman I know not the best mix but should work. I still need to clean the mold a little more, I thought about the last stubborn bit to waste some lead and see it it will amalgam its way out. The gungho excitement has went and I am more at the stage of well I expected failure at first so now its time to learn.
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Matt,
Wayne has a good idea with Electrolysis.
Some testing may be required, but a bath in pure chilled H2SO4 could be aggressive to many things while passivating the aluminum, minimizing its loss from the surface.
Passivation should also be possible with HNO3, and would remove the lead, until it starts to oxidize to PbO2 at the anode.
In a week or so I may be able to do some passivation testing on aluminum wet with Pb-Zn alloy in HNO3. I don’t have a coolant system for H2SO4, a fresh salt ice water bath may work.
But with non-oxidizing, basic solutions, pitting is a likely outcome.
Another possible method may ultrasonication under low temperatures, where the material is brought below the ductile to brittle transition temperature. I don’t know the particular alloy, so I’m not sure how low this temperature may be.
If the aluminum is anodized, you can remove the anodization smoothly with a NaOH solution in a matter of seconds without causing visible pitting.
Hope you are able to clean your mold up, Matt.
Best,
Jane.
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Today I got off work at a decent time so I got my hair cut. Took a past due truck payment to my step dad. I had the cash but forgot to take it over and kept forgetting... Once I got home I had a beer or 2 and forgot how itchy I was. I dried out my pellet hord and smelted them then was like well why not I tossed one pin in the good cavity heated it up and got to it. Well I not so good but the mold seems to be just fine except some stubborn deposits. So after a few drops I put the other pin in and was hoping the schmutz would amalgum out it didnt. However I didnt let that stop me. I kept going just to practis i made quite a few junk pellets but i made pellets. I did a quick
visual pick of the 10 best. Less than 1gn variance and a average of 23.2gn lightest was 22.7 and heaviest was 23.6.
This to me is tremendous progress sure they not so good and wont shoot well but I am happy with the results.
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Fantastic Matt it's a great start keep up the enthusiasm.
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Thanks I'll keep plugging away at it seems that mix is doing well mostly pure with some antimony from the crosman pellets.
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This is tonight's casting adventure. I got the rest of the mold cleaned out it took a few toothpicks and a pick I had ground to clean splines on polaris slingshot axles and pulley. I got up to temp and was dropping what I beleave is good for my skill level pellets, I went to get Dinner with a friend then casted some more. I can say no less than 50 are straight junk and maybe another 50 or so more wont pass visuail. I have to have at least 1000 pellets in total good and bad. I poured between 650 and 800 but tried to keep it at 700 just as a baise line. Im no Wayne52 but I am ok with the results tonight.
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Be patient, they are looking better, it will take time to get the junk out of everything but when it does come out the pellets will be well formed and clean looking. Keep practicing, it will get better as time goes on.
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Thank you everyone for the words of encouragement it helped a lot more than you think. I got to talk to Wayne52 on the phone tonight and that was very nice his encouragement and guidance really helped a lot. So 1600 good at least to me half 23.2 and 22.8gn 160 &^^& for a good first time run I am happy.
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I have some shooting results all at 10y with all of my guns and all groups are 10 shots.
In red ruger impact max np. This gun has never grouped all that well so this is par for the course.
In green gamo urban at 2000psi maxed out hammer spring. This is also par for the course with about everything I feed it. Higher PSI and longer range testing planed.
In purple benjamin trail np2. This probably a little better than other heavy pellets I shot out of it I would typically have 6-8 in a tight group then the rest would open up more.
In blue crosman 2240 carbine. This is a very impressive group for this gun as it was doing the same as 14g CPHP with a slight poi difference and this one was the only off hand seated peep sights.
Final thought for at least my attic range I don't think I will be purchasing pellets for that use any more. I am very satisfied with the results I will do some crony work with all the guns later. The urban dose the best with 18g up to 50y I was smacking paintball size targets at 48 50y at Jeffs house so I suspect the same results with these 23g just a slight adjustment with the scope.
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So against my better judgment I went ahead and melted some of the lead that I tined the snot out of my mold with. Well it seems that these pellets are ok for a unknown mix. The few pellets i weighed all weighed 22.8 to 23.2gn. The skirts crushed easy with my thumb nail.
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Have 150 good pellets to see how it goes. It really makes me wonder if my prior failure was me not knowing enough having the lead too hot or too cold and the mold not up to temp etc.
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The pellets look good!
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Casted a lot more up and they look great. Anyone who guesses how many I will send you 150 from this batch. Ill let it go for 2 weeks so end is 14th of August. Send your guess by PM please. The grouping is nice too top 3 are 2240 carbine bottom 2 are benjamin np2.
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Last night I smelted up 11 pounds of reclaimed pellet lead that the guys at Baker airguns gave me.
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Last night I smelted up 11 pounds of reclaimed pellet lead that the guys at Baker airguns gave me.
Oh Yeah! Free lead!
Can't beat that with a stick. 8)
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Last night I smelted up 11 pounds of reclaimed pellet lead that the guys at Baker airguns gave me.
Oh yeah, that will last you for a while. You will have an endless supply of lead and casted pellets. ;)
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Last night I smelted up 11 pounds of reclaimed pellet lead that the guys at Baker airguns gave me.
That should last you at least a week :)
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That's good for 5000+ pellets, depending on the pellet weight you cast............. ;) ;D
Start slinging lead............
How about 1399 in that pile?
Don
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How about 1399 in that pile?
Don
We will see come the 14th lol
I am casting 23gn so about 3300 pellets. It should get me by for a little while lol. I think they go through a lot of pellets testing guns there so unless others are taking it I may have a good supply system.
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I have the tally I didnt count but weighed them so there is a bit of a tolerance here.
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2500
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I have another pot ready to be used right now, just smelted it a little while ago, right now my F10 is playing catch up cause I've been shooting both my main pcp's quite a bit recently and I've been dragging along my tank out to the state land with me for some plinking with the .25 DAR. It's the first time I've had that SCBA all the way down to 3K for probably a year at least.
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Wyane I know one day I will kinda match you're skills I am eyeballing a 250-41-fn bk2 mold it in HP may be a good hunting slug for the mrod. If anything it will be cheaper to cast and plink with.
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By weight I came up with 1400 pellets. Nverloader guessed the closest..
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Just because I could buy the mold on sale for around $65 but not expecting much, I bought the http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=554_555&products_id=5323 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=554_555&products_id=5323) which I sized from .255 to .251 and it is suprisingly accurate in an 80 FPE chokeless Marauder and my WAR 16" barreled WARP at 50 to 85 yards (haven't tried it at longer ranges).
Just goes to show that accuracy comes in supprising places. Casts very easy too, I was just popping them out of the mold and had a batch in no time.
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Just because I could buy the mold on sale for around $65 but not expecting much, I bought the http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=554_555&products_id=5323 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=554_555&products_id=5323) which I sized from .255 to .251 and it is suprisingly accurate in an 80 FPE chokeless Marauder and my WAR 16" barreled WARP at 50 to 85 yards (haven't tried it at longer ranges).
Just goes to show that accuracy comes in supprising places. Casts very easy too, I was just popping them out of the mold and had a batch in no time.
Any pixs of your resizing setup and info of the equipment? I've looked at that bullet and always thought it might make a good replacement for my 6 ring slugs for my . 25 Talon setup. Never got into reloading for my PB so not a clue what was involved.
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Just because I could buy the mold on sale for around $65 but not expecting much, I bought the http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=554_555&products_id=5323 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=554_555&products_id=5323) which I sized from .255 to .251 and it is suprisingly accurate in an 80 FPE chokeless Marauder and my WAR 16" barreled WARP at 50 to 85 yards (haven't tried it at longer ranges).
Just goes to show that accuracy comes in supprising places. Casts very easy too, I was just popping them out of the mold and had a batch in no time.
I think 53gn may be on the heavy side for my current setup but I'll keep them in mind.
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I use the nice NOE sizer system
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=104 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=104)
And mount it in a cheap Lee Precision press mounted upside down on the underside of my workbench (shop/search around, the really sell for $29, not the full price)
https://leeprecision.com/reloader-press.html (https://leeprecision.com/reloader-press.html)
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Here's my most recent cast for the 217-20-RF and they were all between 19.6 and 19.8 grains with most of them being right around 19.68 grains.
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Wayne
Rifle or pistol?
Looking good.................
Tia,
Don
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Don that was in doors @15ft with my Crosman 150. I was headed for the woods soon after using the same pellet in my ATI Freedom, these pellets are extremely accurate through that rifle. I'm shooting them at about 900fps for several shots before having to pump it up. I prefer to be right at about 2800psi on the gauge though, that's where I have the scope sighted in the best. I did five consecutive shots in a coke can off the hood of my truck @55yds and they all hit home. The coke can was stuck on pine branch spike so it was on it's side so to speak.
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Here's my most recent cast for the 217-20-RF and they were all between 19.6 and 19.8 grains with most of them being right around 19.68 grains.
NICE! I'm still waiting for this mold to be available and I have been checking daily.
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I use the nice NOE sizer system
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=104 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=104)
And mount it in a cheap Lee Precision press mounted upside down on the underside of my workbench (shop/search around, the really sell for $29, not the full price)
https://leeprecision.com/reloader-press.html (https://leeprecision.com/reloader-press.html)
Thanks for sharing Carl.
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A 250-22-WC-CD1 was delevered thanks Mike.
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A 250-22-WC-CD1 was delevered thanks Mike.
Lol Enjoy!
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The heavy ones shot worse than the light ones today, really bad.
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The heavy ones shot worse than the light ones today, really bad.
Oooopssie! That's to bad.
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I planned on casting a few hundred in the light to dile in then around 100 of each just to test with. But probably after hunting seasion is over as it starts tomorrow.
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I could make a longer winded post but here is my new used .25 WC mold making some pellets. Also last pic I tossed in some 20 mule team borax to clean my lead before casting is that normal?
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Yep, that's normal for borax, I use it all the time. Wad cutters looking good, ya gettin better at it. ;)
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Thanks in a short time too.
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Casted a few hundred more tonight I did some pin depth adjustment in an attempt to get rid of some flashing. It kinda worked... What ended up happening is there is still some slight flashing but I drew in my weights between the cavities to a average of .2gn difference. My catch tray weighs just a scosche over 3 pounds now so approximately 700 pellets in it id say 600 that will pass visuial and I will weigh them to see how they are doing. But like my .22 once i know I am good on looks and consistent i probably wont weight each one but do a QC check ever 50 or so.
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So out of the two casting sessions I ended with 14 rejects and aproxamatly 630 good ones of the .25 cal wad Cutters. I dropped no less than 50 on the floor they went back into the pot and not counted.
I will be sending some out to see how they do. So time to wait and see as I find the head bearing surface to be slightly deformed.
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Thanks again Miksatx for sending some 217-20 pellets then selling me this the very next day. I was expecting aluminum but shocked to see brass. This is the second mold I purchaed from him. I will have to wait till next week to get some lead in it.
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So plans to work on my friends dirtbike were postponed because of my self induces hangover, it was my niece's wedding after all, I don't normally drink that much. Also my friend had some family stuff to do so I would have been rushed to change oil, reseal a fork, and put a heavier spring on the rear shock in the 4 hours I would have been there.
So I fired up the pot and got the 217-20 brass mold Miksatx sent me set in my mold handles. Right away I seen what was causing the issues he was having after a few drops. So I tossed them in the pot and filed the damage down that was leaving strings on the pellets at the seam. Now thats all fine and dandy but the damages done probably by the guy Miksatx bought it from is keeping one pellet in the mold from freely dropping out. I need to get my hands on a large magnifying glass to find and remove what I assume to be a burr holding that one pellet in the mold.
I still casted up about 12 15 pellets before I decided I need to figure out how to repair this mold so it is in perfect working order. I then shot them out of my benjamin trail and well I can say they performed as well as a 18gn jsb out of that gun so I am happy with that. They also slip in nice with just enough resistance they dont fall out and are not a PITA to seat.
Also in my no apparent reason to hurry I spilled about 4 pounds of lead on the floor... I am very lucky none got on me. I dont know why I decided to move my setup with still molten lead because I always wait until it is solid even if it is still hot.
Ok enough rambling here are some pics.
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Matt it's great that you were able to get some good pellets on the first run, bummer about spilling lead. Molten lead is best to be left stationary until it's solidified again.
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Matt it's great that you were able to get some good pellets on the first run, bummer about spilling lead. Molten lead is best to be left stationary until it's solidified again.
Yup it was bonehead move and I wont be doing that again... Now to figure out how to get that one pellet to drop without causing damage to the mold and they did look very nice the ones that did drop. It looked like that the pins were forced up into the cavity deforming the base of the skirt.
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I used to be real big into RCs. One of the things I used to do was to solder on Deans connectors to my ESCs and lipo batts as well as putting bigger sized bullet plugs for the motor and ESC.
I remember getting hit with some flux once. Thankfully it wasn't the lead...just the flux. Sweet child of mine that thing burned like the sulfur of the devil's toilet tissue.
I can't imagine taking a hit from 4lbs of molten lead. :o
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I used to be real big into RCs. One of the things I used to do was to solder on Deans connectors to my ESCs and lipo batts as well as putting bigger sized bullet plugs for the motor and ESC.
I remember getting hit with some flux once. Thankfully it wasn't the lead...just the flux. Sweet child of mine that thing burned like the sulfur of the devil's toilet tissue.
I can't imagine taking a hit from 4lbs of molten lead. :o
I still have most of my RC collection not very interested in it but cant make my self part with it.
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Oooh! How nice! I sold most of mine, unfortunately. And they were the ones that I put the most work into. I converted 1/8 truggies and buggies and even a 1/12 CRT.5.
I'd regularly rip the foam in the tires to shreds.
My favorite was taking unbranded Chinese knockoffs and building them up to insane levels. Like my little 1/18 Chinese buggy that I converted from brushed to brushless. Didn't take too much, but all the other guys with their 400 dollar Nova Rossi engines weren't thrilled that a little cockroach was smoking them in the straights and the corners. ;D
Sorry for the diversion, Insanity.
To get things back on topic, I will mention that I need to get more involved with this casting thing. I want to start looking into a mold for a .357; but I have no clue what to look for on NOE. I ordered some cast bullets on Ebay, and unfortunately they didn't work out too well in the Winchester. :(
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I still have a soft spot for RC but lately not so much I have a revo 3.3 that I converted to brushless...
I dunno for 357 I dont own one but would love to but I think anything in the actual 357 may be the second start first start is to give info on your gun and ask whats best.
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Nice...so you did an E-Revo conversion before they even came out. 8)
As for the casting info, yeah...I tried it out in the Big Bore Gate, but I didn't get much info. The Winchester is new to me, so I'm a little apprehensive about taking it apart and measuring lands, bore and twist.
I suppose I could just mic a JSB, since those are super accurate. But it feels like getting into casting is the same as getting into another hobby. With all the expenditures and learning curves. :(
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Oooh! How nice! I sold most of mine, unfortunately. And they were the ones that I put the most work into. I converted 1/8 truggies and buggies and even a 1/12 CRT.5.
I'd regularly rip the foam in the tires to shreds.
My favorite was taking unbranded Chinese knockoffs and building them up to insane levels. Like my little 1/18 Chinese buggy that I converted from brushed to brushless. Didn't take too much, but all the other guys with their 400 dollar Nova Rossi engines weren't thrilled that a little cockroach was smoking them in the straights and the corners. ;D
Sorry for the diversion, Insanity.
To get things back on topic, I will mention that I need to get more involved with this casting thing. I want to start looking into a mold for a .357; but I have no clue what to look for on NOE. I ordered some cast bullets on Ebay, and unfortunately they didn't work out too well in the Winchester. :(
I have had really good results with the lee 125gr mold. They drop at .358 and are easily sized down. Not expensive either.
https://www.amazon.com/LEE-PRECISION-358-125-Rf-Double-Cavity/dp/B001OPUDCK (https://www.amazon.com/LEE-PRECISION-358-125-Rf-Double-Cavity/dp/B001OPUDCK)
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To get things back on topic, I will mention that I need to get more involved with this casting thing. I want to start looking into a mold for a .357; but I have no clue what to look for on NOE. I ordered some cast bullets on Ebay, and unfortunately they didn't work out too well in the Winchester. :(
For a win 70-35, I would be looking for a weight around 85gr to keep the velocity up around 850 FPS or better. That probably means a .357 pellet mould. I do see one pellet mould on the NOE site that would match that weight, but it's only in .356, so I wouldn't gamble with the cost on that one without some input from experienced shooters with it and a Win 70-35.
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=35_586&osCsid=o946od8olgnvgu1b5sbq787gm0 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=35_586&osCsid=o946od8olgnvgu1b5sbq787gm0)
NOE also has a BT that weighs 136gr in pure lead. You could add in some tin to lighten it some.
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=35_527&products_id=4743&osCsid=o946od8olgnvgu1b5sbq787gm0 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=35_527&products_id=4743&osCsid=o946od8olgnvgu1b5sbq787gm0)
PA has a JSB pellet in that diameter and weight. That would be something I would try at least. https://www.pyramydair.com/product/jsb-match-diabolo-exact-35-cal-81-02-grains-domed-100ct?p=1087 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/jsb-match-diabolo-exact-35-cal-81-02-grains-domed-100ct?p=1087)
I do feel your pain with trying to find a mould to cast your own. I've had one dud in .25 cal with really no other moulds available to try either. I have had good success with .357 moulds, but these are 150gr. The Win 70-35 just wouldn't push those fast enough, IMO.
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Oooh! How nice! I sold most of mine, unfortunately. And they were the ones that I put the most work into. I converted 1/8 truggies and buggies and even a 1/12 CRT.5.
I'd regularly rip the foam in the tires to shreds.
My favorite was taking unbranded Chinese knockoffs and building them up to insane levels. Like my little 1/18 Chinese buggy that I converted from brushed to brushless. Didn't take too much, but all the other guys with their 400 dollar Nova Rossi engines weren't thrilled that a little cockroach was smoking them in the straights and the corners. ;D
Sorry for the diversion, Insanity.
To get things back on topic, I will mention that I need to get more involved with this casting thing. I want to start looking into a mold for a .357; but I have no clue what to look for on NOE. I ordered some cast bullets on Ebay, and unfortunately they didn't work out too well in the Winchester. :(
I have had really good results with the lee 125gr mold. They drop at .358 and are easily sized down. Not expensive either.
https://www.amazon.com/LEE-PRECISION-358-125-Rf-Double-Cavity/dp/B001OPUDCK (https://www.amazon.com/LEE-PRECISION-358-125-Rf-Double-Cavity/dp/B001OPUDCK)
Thanks, ShakySarge. I'd really like to keep the weight in the 80-90gr range. Right now it's shooting the 81gr JSBs at a max of 884FPS, and she's bone stock. I feel if I go up too high on weight, FPS will drop too low.
I wonder if anyone has a BT HP mold .358 sized in 80-90gr. I'll bet those would be magic!
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To get things back on topic, I will mention that I need to get more involved with this casting thing. I want to start looking into a mold for a .357; but I have no clue what to look for on NOE. I ordered some cast bullets on Ebay, and unfortunately they didn't work out too well in the Winchester. :(
For a win 70-35, I would be looking for a weight around 85gr to keep the velocity up around 850 FPS or better. That probably means a .357 pellet mould. I do see one pellet mould on the NOE site that would match that weight, but it's only in .356, so I wouldn't gamble with the cost on that one without some input from experienced shooters with it and a Win 70-35.
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=35_586&osCsid=o946od8olgnvgu1b5sbq787gm0 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=35_586&osCsid=o946od8olgnvgu1b5sbq787gm0)
NOE also has a BT that weighs 136gr in pure lead. You could add in some tin to lighten it some.
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=35_527&products_id=4743&osCsid=o946od8olgnvgu1b5sbq787gm0 (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=35_527&products_id=4743&osCsid=o946od8olgnvgu1b5sbq787gm0)
PA has a JSB pellet in that diameter and weight. That would be something I would try at least. https://www.pyramydair.com/product/jsb-match-diabolo-exact-35-cal-81-02-grains-domed-100ct?p=1087 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/jsb-match-diabolo-exact-35-cal-81-02-grains-domed-100ct?p=1087)
I do feel your pain with trying to find a mould to cast your own. I've had one dud in .25 cal with really no other moulds available to try either. I have had good success with .357 moulds, but these are 150gr. The Win 70-35 just wouldn't push those fast enough, IMO.
Thanks, triggertreat. Yeah, it's kind of a precipitous ledge to be on. I want to try a bunch of molds, but I worry about them not shooting well. I have some expendable income, but it wouldn't be enough to cover several molds that would not work out.
I'm glad that Insanity's venture is more or less paying off. Knowing my luck, I'd have to go through several molds. :(
Right now the JSBs are working out great...but I would like to try some HP slugs. I got super lucky with the ones from Rick on Ebay for my Sumatra Long in .25. I didn't do so well with the 82gr HPs. :(
At least I didn't buy the mold for that one. :o
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Matt after my last casting using the 217-17-WC I've found that the sprue plate hole is very small in comparison to all my other molds and the nozzle of the ladle (in my case) had to be super clean before each pour. So far it's been my experience that before each pour I'll first let a little bit of lead flow through before pouring the pellet, my reject rate dropped considerably this way. I don't recommend opening up the sprue plate hole at all because I think it might create more problems. I came to the conclusion that it'll just take a little longer to pour good WC's in .217 for good results.
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That is interesting Wayne I can see why you would need to do that makes it a bit more tedious it sounds.
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Casted up some more 217-20 pellets today and boy do they sure look great. averaging right now .6gr difference and each cavity is holding .05 to .1 variance. A great big thanks to everyone who has guided me especially Wyane52 with our phone conversations, and here is the results of that.
I wont get to shoot them in my range for a few days my monster is sick ear infection in BOTH ears.
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Wow those look nice!
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Looking good Matt !!!
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Very nice, no swirls or flashing to mess them up, those should do well in your gun.
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Minor resurrection- I'm further intrigued by those .25 wadcutters.
Reading through this thread has given me a lot of information- experiencing the failures and eventual successes as the learning curves flattens out is enlightening, but having a member like Matt who is willing to share the experiences is even better.
and yeah, the final results are gorgeous.
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Yesterday I did fire up the pot and smelted some more free pellet lead. I casted about 20 or so pellets so i could see how it did and they came out nice and shiny.
Peter I may do a fresh run on a few wadcutters just so you can see the difference in the old lead and methods to my new.
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Yesterday I did fire up the pot and smelted some more free pellet lead. I casted about 20 or so pellets so i could see how it did and they came out nice and shiny.
Peter I may do a fresh run on a few wadcutters just so you can see the difference in the old lead and methods to my new.
:)
I'm on the edge of ordering a Leshiy and torn between .22 and .25- Dillon was getting some good results with the .22 and NSAs slugs, but a quarter-bore wadcutter in a Leshiy would be simply exciting! (hooray that replacement barrels for the Leshiy aren't unobtanium- never mind the gun is tunable!)
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Peter the wad cutters really need to be slowed down to 700fps or less, they're really not a long range pellet at all. I do shoot a lot of the .217 wad cutters from my Crosman 150 and they really work well in that.
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Have a update here... So today I set up to cast at least 1000 pellets out of my 217-20 mold. I was getting about a 75% failure rate I thought because it was cold I was not getting a good fill. I tried everything from keeping the mold hotter than normal and heating my lead up to 850°f nothing was working. So I was filling my ladle and just letting it flow back into the pot, I do that to mix the lead for temp, I was not getting a good flow it was solid then turned into droplets. Turns out it was around 60% blocked... I took a drill bit and by hand knocked the rust and slag out of it and wouldn't you know it I started to get good pellets again. Most of you are thinking well derr you walnut if you just read some more posts on the other casting forum you would know that. Well I only truly learn from experience and all I tend to try to research just enough to get started, the rest its trial by fire for me. Which if you read this from the beginning that is evident.
This makes me want to season my ladle. I am thinking about hitting it with a wire brush in my dremel then heating it nice and hot and dunking it into some used motor oil. Then once it has be established I can maintain it so as to keep rust and build up at bay. I also know better to clean off the oil residue you know because fire and contamination and such.
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Thanks to Matt's kindness, I have been able to sample his .25 wadcutters. the old ones are all I taken shots with- IE: his earlier attempt work very well in my Hatsan 95QE. 3 shots, 3 hits on my 19 yard spinner. No sighting in, just loaded and pulled the trigger. The 95QE is currently sighted in for 25.4 grain AA domes.... and Matt's .25 Murder Wads :) I'll try the newer ones later or perhaps tomorrow.
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Looking forward to see how well they do on paper. Also how the .22s do for you. I know with Jeff's dar 25 after 30y they start to come off point.
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Looking forward to see how well they do on paper. Also how the .22s do for you. I know with Jeff's dar 25 after 30y they start to come off point.
Getting too dark today.
Tomorrow if it ain't nasty I'll try the .22 domed Murder Missiles :) I like the length of the .22s. MEATY!
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They smack pretty hard at 27fpe out of my urban.
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Matt I was over at my brothers about a week ago doing some 15 yard shooting with the wadcutters out of my Crosman 150 and I was getting some super nice off hand groups with it, the .22 wadcutters work well in a .22 pistol, they would probably work really good in all the Crosman .22 co2 pistols.
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I do keep eying the .22 WC mold for my 2240 carbine.
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I'm wanting to take the plunge. Gonna have to wait a few months, but that's fine. I'm dying to try some cast Murder Missiles in the 2400KT and tomorrow (today?) is warm enough for CO2. Those .22 wadcutter molds have my attention. Actually all the wadcutter molds do. 😁
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Just do it 80 bucks for a layman big dipper kit, say 120 for a brass mold, 40~ for a good thermometer I recommend the RSCB or the rebadged one, 20~ for some mold handles, last some lead from rotometals if you don't have at least 5-10 pounds of reclaimed pallet lead. Get some paraffin wax and some 20 mule team borax a spoon to dross with and you are set. Sure that's a few hundred to start with but if you are dedicated to it it is worth it.
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(https://i.imgur.com/euA7wyr.jpg)The .22 WC mold would be very nice to have for anyone interested in a wad cutter for their vintage Benjamin and Crosmans, especially the older pneumatics. The ones that I've been casting come out to 16.5 grain, I wish that I had been using them in my Crosman 150 last summer when I was out shooting chippers with it. It makes a nice carry gun in off season when the only thing you can shoot are red squirrels and chipmunks.
Awesome for plinking too :D They are just like a flying frypan !!!
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Wayne and Matt- no doubt I'll be getting the brass 4-pellet wadcutter molds in .22 and .25. Just gotta wait until I get the payout from the company. I may see if NOA can fabricate me a .30 wadcutter since at that point, money isn't really going to be an issue.
My entire realm of shooting endeavors has been shifting to wadcutters- they simply work best for my needs. I still want some Hades, and I bought a sampler of NSAs in .22 but those are reserved for my Leshiy (if it ever gets here!). And I love big meaty heavy pellets moving at slower speeds. Gamo and H&N have the heaviest .22 wadcutters right now. Those NOEs fall in between the Gamo and H&N in mass, and based on appearance, look longer so a slow-twist barrel should be able to squeeze out longer distance for accuracy as long as whatever is shooting them isn't running too hot.
I have a goal of a 50 yard wadcutter- just gotta figure out what it takes.
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After a move across town and striking a deal with the guy who lives downstairs I now have an area to cast again. So I fired it up and got to casting 000 buck... Not at all airgun related but thought I would let yous guys know I ought to be getting back into casting some pellets some time soon. I suppose you could shoot them out of an AG at .36/9.14mm which I know of none that can its a scosche larger than .357.
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Lets go ahead and resurrect this dead thread...
I had bought a few molds and stuffs since 2 years ago and tonight got around to it and casted up some 357, 25, and these odd 25 wads.
I really like the NOE mold handles and may have to buy more. How many mold handles is too many? One more than the amount of mold you own.
I never thought a map torch would be so useful for casting its not required but it helps, it helps.
I have some inspecting and sorting to do later.
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Warming up the pins sure helps with getting good results right off. An old caster taught me that and it has come in handy for sure.
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Today I didn't really need to as the 25 and these odd wadcutters fell off. But yes good hot pins make a world of difference. The 357 pellets didnt want to drop right away ,maybe they needed hotter pins?, but a tap with my mold mallet (miss my lead hammer) and they came off. Maybe a polish? But I was having other issues also so I need to learn that mold. Its a brass 4 cavity and its heavy and with all the moving parts and did not want to shut right every time. That made me tap it here and there to get the gap on ither end to close.
The 25 pellets man all I did was get it hot and run it when I opened it and they fell right out no taps. The 25 wads the same.
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Today I didn't really need to as the 25 and these odd wadcutters fell off. But yes good hot pins make a world of difference. The 357 pellets didnt want to drop right away ,maybe they needed hotter pins?, but a tap with my mold mallet (miss my lead hammer) and they came off. Maybe a polish? But I was having other issues also so I need to learn that mold. Its a brass 4 cavity and its heavy and with all the moving parts and did not want to shut right every time. That made me tap it here and there to get the gap on ither end to close.
The 25 pellets man all I did was get it hot and run it when I opened it and they fell right out no taps. The 25 wads the same.
Another option is coloring the pins with a graphite pencil. It works for awhile but has to be redone. Polishing should definitely help too.
I have a couple of brass molds, but I prefer aluminum. That brass gets heavy in a hurry and I'm not exactly a weakling.
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I've found that when a mold doesn't close properly it's out of adjustment or the steel locating bushing in the mold have lead in them.
Most of the time in my case it's the bushings have lead in them not allowing the locating pins to enter the bushing freely.
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I've found that when a mold doesn't close properly it's out of adjustment or the steel locating bushing in the mold have lead in them.
Most of the time in my case it's the bushings have lead in them not allowing the locating pins to enter the bushing freely.
That makes sense but brand new unused mold it was the base pins not jiving well. If I got them to settle it closed perfect.
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Today I didn't really need to as the 25 and these odd wadcutters fell off. But yes good hot pins make a world of difference. The 357 pellets didnt want to drop right away ,maybe they needed hotter pins?, but a tap with my mold mallet (miss my lead hammer) and they came off. Maybe a polish? But I was having other issues also so I need to learn that mold. Its a brass 4 cavity and its heavy and with all the moving parts and did not want to shut right every time. That made me tap it here and there to get the gap on ither end to close.
The 25 pellets man all I did was get it hot and run it when I opened it and they fell right out no taps. The 25 wads the same.
Another option is coloring the pins with a graphite pencil. It works for awhile but has to be redone. Polishing should definitely help too.
I have a couple of brass molds, but I prefer aluminum. That brass gets heavy in a hurry and I'm not exactly a weakling.
I will try some easy tricks before I polish the pins. It was less of an issue than it sounds. But it was not how I expected it to run.
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I'm wanting to take the plunge. Gonna have to wait a few months, but that's fine. I'm dying to try some cast Murder Missiles in the 2400KT and tomorrow (today?) is warm enough for CO2. Those .22 wadcutter molds have my attention. Actually all the wadcutter molds do. 😁
I was up in the attic yesterday shooting those wad cutters out of my new Xisico XS60C and they shoot beautiful out of that gun, I almost think they might shoot better than the 19.6 grain hunters but I won't really
know for sure until I put a scope on it and really zero it in. I was just using the open sights right out of the box with bad focus on the sights to boot.
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My trick with sticking pins is to lay a thin sut layer with a candle or lighter.
I would love to try the .22 wadcutters but NOE ignores us....
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Brewbear when I heard they were going to make them I watched closely until they had them and jump on a brass 2 cavity, I've probably cast more of those .22 wad cutters than any other pellet.
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Kept all 200 of the 25 pellets, 135 of the 150 357 pellets, and 82 of 100 of the wads.
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Went to Jeffs house to do some shooting.
I made an update of that WC mold in its own thread.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=200003.new#new (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=200003.new#new)
I got the 357 on paper at 10 and 50 yards and was satisfied with that as a start.
Moved to the 25 nova and proceeded to shoot only my cast pellets and I am quite pleased for my wants needs and desires with the light weight mold. They preformed as well as I can shoot them compared to out of the tin JSBs.
I cant say I'll only shoot them from now on because I may not have the time to cast enough for every time I want to shoot. It is nice to know that I have an acceptable alternative for when I have some time to play with licquid lead. I think if I can squirt out 200 at a time that should pretty well keep me shooting with out buying any. I took 200 to Jeffs we shot the snot out of them and still have some left over. Great plinking pellet for me.
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Cast up some trash cans, pellets and some slugs all in .25 today.
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Brewbear when I heard they were going to make them I watched closely until they had them and jump on a brass 2 cavity, I've probably cast more of those .22 wad cutters than any other pellet.
The .22 wadcutter moulds were more than likely available before I pursued my interest in air guns so I am SOL for now.... I live with the hope they will become available at some point in the near future.
Matt, nice to see you're getting the hang of casting, I find it relaxing...
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Matt casts some pretty good pellets! I've shot them.
Not quite JSB quality but for the stuff He and I shoot at? Good enough!
I've hit Beer cans at 80 and 110 yards with the .25's he cast.
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Brewbear when I heard they were going to make them I watched closely until they had them and jump on a brass 2 cavity, I've probably cast more of those .22 wad cutters than any other pellet.
The .22 wadcutter moulds were more than likely available before I pursued my interest in air guns so I am SOL for now.... I live with the hope they will become available at some point in the near future.
Matt, nice to see you're getting the hang of casting, I find it relaxing...
I'm sure that there's probably a thread on NOE forum that's requesting the .22 wad cutters (NOE 217-17-WC). I cleaned out most of the red squirrels that I could in my back yard with the
Crsoman C362 during the spring/summer with wad cutters@5 pumps. Got most of them in the mulberry tree.
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There is one with 10 on it interested.
Yep they are good enough for the fun we have.
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I don't know Matt. I'm thinking a resizer would really improve the pellets. And they are pretty derned good as is!
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I don't know Matt. I'm thinking a resizer would really improve the pellets. And they are pretty derned good as is!
No one makes one for pellets that don't size the skirt also. Also that is way more work just to plink than I want to do.
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Brewbear when I heard they were going to make them I watched closely until they had them and jump on a brass 2 cavity, I've probably cast more of those .22 wad cutters than any other pellet.
The .22 wadcutter moulds were more than likely available before I pursued my interest in air guns so I am SOL for now.... I live with the hope they will become available at some point in the near future.
Matt, nice to see you're getting the hang of casting, I find it relaxing...
I'm sure that there's probably a thread on NOE forum that's requesting the .22 wad cutters (NOE 217-17-WC). I cleaned out most of the red squirrels that I could in my back yard with the
Crsoman C362 during the spring/summer with wad cutters@5 pumps. Got most of them in the mulberry tree.
You are right Wayne, there is a thread you started and some of us here jumped in. The problem is things got muddled and the same people wanting the wadcutter .22 also added their names to the list for the redesigned .22 slug from RSterne (Bob). NOE/Al believed we didn't want the wadcutter .22 anymore or some such. I hope that we can clear up the confusion and maybe (fingers crossed) we will get another run of the .22 wadcutter mold.
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I don't know Matt. I'm thinking a resizer would really improve the pellets. And they are pretty derned good as is!
No one makes one for pellets that don't size the skirt also. Also that is way more work just to plink than I want to do.
Sizing is definitely a conundrum when it comes to cast pellets. I came from the solid bullet, slug side of things before I encountered pellet molds, and that skewed my process for sure. I believe I had a conversation with Subscriber and Nvreloader, awhile back. I think both were working on dies that head size only. I need to do some digging and see if I find it again.
It may not be feasible from a financial perspective, but another path to success is simply finding the right barrel for each mold.
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I have sized .30 cal pellets. If the skirts are thin enough and made of pure lead and the tune is high enough the skirts will spread back out. This is trial and error territory though.
What I do after sizing them using the NOE bushing is use a jig which spreads the skirts back out. I have much better and more consistent results than with not resizing the skirts. This all takes a little more effort, but I get the same results as I do with the JSBs which are very accurate in my Impact. I enjoy the sizing as much as I do the casting and shooting so this works for me. I like being able to add a little more or less to the skirt size as well.
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I decided I did not like the mold mallet NOE makes. Its not it its me it dose not fit my hand well, have the heft I desire and this is the most important it dose not fit in my left arm pit comfortably. So I dug out my hand made lead hammer mold. Its a copper plumbing T that I cut in half and rigged up using an old screw driver handle.
Well since I had the lead hot I decided to cast up a little over 100 34gn .25 pellets.
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I have been wanting to build a PID for a while and seeing I have a brand new Lee Pro 4-20. I seen this DIY PID (https://www.instructables.com/Arduino-PID-Controlled-Lee-4-20-Metal-Melting-Pot/) where all the guts are built into the pot its self I like that its all in one and dont have to have a second piece of equipment cluttering up my small casting table.
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I have been wanting to build a PID for a while and seeing I have a brand new Lee Pro 4-20. I seen this DIY PID (https://www.instructables.com/Arduino-PID-Controlled-Lee-4-20-Metal-Melting-Pot/) where all the guts are built into the pot its self I like that its all in one and dont have to have a second piece of equipment cluttering up my small casting table.
That looks like an interesting PID build for the Pro 4-20 but does look quite involved. I like the one I built that is a separate build as I can use it on other projects and if the pot goes toes up, I still have a working PID. It also was not too hard to build.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=158723.msg155780761#msg155780761 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=158723.msg155780761#msg155780761)
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I seen that one and considered building it l but not now after seeing I can stuff most of it in the pot it's self. And if it goes bad parts can be replaced or moved to a new pot...
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Does is not spelled D O S E.
Dose it what I do on the couch after a good meal.
;D
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Does is not spelled D O S E.
Dose it what I do on the couch after a good meal.
;D
Lead poisoning is real yo.
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would these work?
aliexpress.com/item/4001271247635.html
aliexpress.com/item/32970267872.html
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This one will not support the temperature ranges needed.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832783953120.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832783953120.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US)
This one will support the temperature ranges needed.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255801084932883.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255801084932883.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US)
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My much awated .22 wadcutter mold has finally made it to my door. Also think I'm up to 1 lee and 5 NOE mold handles.
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I think you'll be happy with them Matt, sure they're on the heavy side for a wad cutter but they definitely get the job done.
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I got mine today too. I hope I get a chance to use it this weekend.
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Eddie the .22 wad cutters shoot excellent in all my lower powered 22's, not really sure what the max speed should be with these but they work really good in pumpers, when my attic warms up some I'll be testing them in my Xisico XS60, I still need to do a Chrony test with the wad cutters yet.
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Eddie the .22 wad cutters shoot excellent in all my lower powered 22's, not really sure what the max speed should be with these but they work really good in pumpers, when my attic warms up some I'll be testing them in my Xisico XS60, I still need to do a Chrony test with the wad cutters yet.
I'm hoping my Prod likes them.
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Eddie the .22 wad cutters shoot excellent in all my lower powered 22's, not really sure what the max speed should be with these but they work really good in pumpers, when my attic warms up some I'll be testing them in my Xisico XS60, I still need to do a Chrony test with the wad cutters yet.
I'm hoping my Prod likes them.
I should put my Prod back to stock again, maybe I'll put the original valve back in it, it has a bigger exhaust port but I'll just match the other ports to it and adjust it with the hammer spring.
I'm sure I could get a nice long string with that gun using those wad cutters in it, it would be a perfect back yard gun because I've got an excellent LDC for it that David made for me.