GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Ozman on July 07, 2019, 10:25:23 PM
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Advice wanted. :)
Located in Australia, I need a regulated PCP airgun for rabbit control on 5 acres, but please, no FX recommendations*
Here are my requirements:
- Caliber .22 or .25 (preferably 22)
- Capable of 900-1000 fps
- Regulated pressure (consistent shooting)
- Accurate to 100-120m/yards
- As few O-rings as possible
- Rugged, durable design
- Reputation for reliability
- Reputation for barrel accuracy (Lothar Walther?)
- I do not need the ability to swap out barrels and change calibers
- I do not need a magazine, single shot acceptable. Magazine would be nice though.
- I do not need high shot capacity (i.e. a big air reservoir) Will be hand pumping.
Recommendations please!
* FX airguns seem to have little or no quality control ex factory. I've read hundreds of owner accounts of problems on various forums, and even seen two dealers (now 3, including AoA) refuse to sell them because of the the return rate. I just don't need or want the drama in my life.
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- Advice wanted. :)
Located in Australia, I need a regulated PCP airgun for rabbit control on 5 acres, but please, no FX recommendations*
Here are my requirements:
- Caliber .22 or .25 (preferably 22)
- Capable of 900-1000 fps
- Regulated pressure (consistent shooting)
- Accurate to 100-120m/yards
- As few O-rings as possible
- Rugged, durable design
- Reputation for reliability
- Reputation for barrel accuracy (Lothar Walther?)
- I do not need the ability to swap out barrels and change calibers
- I do not need a magazine, single shot acceptable. Magazine would be nice though.
- I do not need high shot capacity (i.e. a big air reservoir) Will be hand pumping.
Recommendations please!
* FX airguns seem to have little or no quality control ex factory. I've read hundreds of owner accounts of problems on various forums, and even seen two dealers (now 3, including AoA) refuse to sell them because of the the return rate. I just don't need or want the drama in my life.
Nova Freedom or Seneca Aspen in .177 or .22.
No need for regulator as the pump is built into the gun.
I own a Freedom in .177 and will buy another one.
Enough said...
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Nova Freedom or Seneca Aspen in .177 or .22.
Thanks. AFAIK those are not available in Australia.
I've just now spotted an interesting gun, the AirForce Condor. This seems to have everything I need except the regulator. Maybe I can live without a regulator? But I do need some replicability when I shoot so that impact point is predictable ....
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Nova Freedom or Seneca Aspen in .177 or .22.
Thanks. AFAIK those are not available in Australia.
I've just now spotted an interesting gun, the AirForce Condor. This seems to have everything I need except the regulator. Maybe I can live without a regulator? But I do need some replicability when I shoot so that impact point is predictable ....
American Tactical won't ship to Australia? Amazon won't ship to Australia? Pyramidair won't ship to Australia?
Really? I had no idea...
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Advice wanted. :)
Located in Australia, I need a regulated PCP airgun for rabbit control on 5 acres, but please, no FX recommendations*
Here are my requirements:
- Caliber .22 or .25 (preferably 22)
- Capable of 900-1000 fps
- Regulated pressure (consistent shooting)
- Accurate to 100-120m/yards
- As few O-rings as possible
- Rugged, durable design
- Reputation for reliability
- Reputation for barrel accuracy (Lothar Walther?)
- I do not need the ability to swap out barrels and change calibers
- I do not need a magazine, single shot acceptable. Magazine would be nice though.
- I do not need high shot capacity (i.e. a big air reservoir) Will be hand pumping.
Recommendations please!
* FX airguns seem to have little or no quality control ex factory. I've read hundreds of owner accounts of problems on various forums, and even seen two dealers (now 3, including AoA) refuse to sell them because of the the return rate. I just don't need or want the drama in my life.
Hey Mike,
Great post. Give everyone some time to think it over. I'm a springer shooter, so no input from me--especially at the 100-120+ range that you're looking for.
Head over to the hunting gate and watch some of the videos with long distance shooting. I'm amazed at guns + scopes that can kill pests (small and large) at 160+ yards.
Also, there are some great deals on used guns (if it's legal down under to buy that way). Some of the folks here are masters at maintaining their guns then upgrading to the newer stuff; or, they are retiring some of the herd and sharing the wealth at reasonable prices. Typically, anyone here with posts numbering into the 1,000s+ has vetted themselves within the community. A PM can get you started. Also, use a PM to ask a member about his/her experience with a gun that interests you.
Lastly, there are just as many right choices as wrong ones! Let your needs, wants, and preferences guide you. If you buy a gun that barely reaches 100 yards when you need 120-160+, then you've bought your first gun but not the last.
Here are some categories to consider, as you go forward:
Loudness. Is this a factor for people or for the prey? I've gotten second shots at squirrels simply because my .177 is only a medium loud gun.
Weight!!!! This matters a great deal to me; but you may not have off-hand challenges due to lower back problems. As as general rule, 7.5 lbs + a 1lb-ish scope is much easier to off-hand shoot than a
10-11 lb kit!!!!! AMHIKT
FPS. I don't know PCPs; but should the ballistics be similar...higher FPS will introduce breaking the sound barrier, generating destabilization of the pellet, and create a bit a havoc with heavier
calibers and heavier pellets. However, I'm not sure this applies to the PCP world as it does for the rest of us. No disrespect intended. So, don't choose higher FPS just cause you can!
Pellets. Maker, shape, grain weight, etc. really matter!!!! .177 and .22 have a much larger assortment of pellet choices; .20 and .25 have far fewer but the ones available are recommended here by
others as really good. (Got this stored away for my first .20 and .25 down the line (way down the line).
Quality. I believe that you get what you pay for, though some of it is merely cosmetic. The way I handle and clean my Weihrauchs is much more thorough than my Crosman. However, I can shoot
nearly as well with my lowly Crosman as with my Frauleins (only took me five months to say that)
Fill ups. No idea! Read and ask others taken by the Darkside.
Hope this helps (even if not from a PCP-er).
Keep us posted,
Archie
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Knowing what brands are available to you down under would go a ways towards recommending something that will fit your wants/needs.
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Is the Airforce airgun line available there?
While not regulated, they are consistent shooters.
They Have only 2 o rings in the gun and a 3rd one in The valve that is attached to the 500cc tank.
And it will still function with 2 of them missing (but at a lower velocity. )
They are accurate with Lothar Walther barrels.
They are called a utility airgun, by Airforce.
There is a reason many governmental agencies use them for pest control.
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Taipan Veteran, if they're available to you.
I've owned four PCPs (3 now). One is a very specific-use field target gun, but the Veteran does everything the other 3 can (did in the case of the one I sold) and then some.
Amazing triggers, amazing accuracy, very robustly built. I just load and shoot mine, no tinkering necessary (other than the hammer spring power adjust, which is yet another nice feature). I bought it around October last year and I've shot seven tins of pellets through it with absolutely zero problems. 100+ yard shots are not a problem. Mines in .22. Comes with two magazines and a single shot tray. It is my primary pest popper.
Owning an airgun named the Taipan and living where you do would be kinda fun too. You could tell people your Taipan killed it.
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If you tinker with your air rifles, you could try a Hatsan BT65. You can install a Huma or Lane reg in it and they definitely have the power you are looking for. Not very many O-rings, they usually don't have air leak issues, accuracy from all the ones I have has been very good with JSB and H&N pellets. They are sometimes a little rough when new but smooth out nicely after it's been cleaned and shot for awhile.
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American Tactical won't ship to Australia? Amazon won't ship to Australia? Pyramidair won't ship to Australia?
Really? I had no idea...
Unfortunately, pellet guns are considered fully fledged firearms here and cannot be imported by individuals. It has to come through a dealer.
Head over to the hunting gate and watch some of the videos with long distance shooting. I'm amazed at guns + scopes that can kill pests (small and large) at 160+ yards.
Great suggestion, thanks!
Also, there are some great deals on used guns (if it's legal down under to buy that way).
I've decided not to go "used" on this. I'm treating myself to a new gun :)
Loudness. Is this a factor for people or for the prey? I've gotten second shots at squirrels simply because my .177 is only a medium loud gun.
Silencers are illegal here. I know, ridiculous! :(
Weight!!!! This matters a great deal to me; but you may not have off-hand challenges due to lower back problems.
Not for me. I can see the whole 5 acres from one spot, and won't be hauling it around much.
Knowing what brands are available to you down under would go a ways towards recommending something that will fit your wants/needs.
Hmm. That's a hard one. The way I check if something is available here is by Googling "[rifle brand name] site:.au" e.g. "Daisy site:.au" (lose the quotation marks)
That tells Google only to report Australian hits for that term.
(BTW, I am American who has moved here permanently, long story)
Is the Airforce airgun line available there?
While not regulated, they are consistent shooters.
They Have only 2 o rings in the gun and a 3rd one in The valve that is attached to the 500cc tank.
And it will still function with 2 of them missing (but at a lower velocity. )
They are accurate with Lothar Walther barrels.
They are called a utility airgun, by Airforce.
There is a reason many governmental agencies use them for pest control.
Yes they are available here, and that was some excellent information, thank you! :)
Taipan Veteran, if they're available to you.
Sadly not, although we do have the actual Taipan snake here, the most venomous in the world!
(https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/10792924-3x2-700x467.jpg)
If you tinker with your air rifles, you could try a Hatsan BT65. You can install a Huma or Lane reg in it and they definitely have the power you are looking for. Not very many O-rings, they usually don't have air leak issues, accuracy from all the ones I have has been very good with JSB and H&N pellets. They are sometimes a little rough when new but smooth out nicely after it's been cleaned and shot for awhile.
Thanks, Hatsans are available here. I will look into this :)
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How about a RAW or Daystate Redwolf? I mean depending on your budget which I never saw these would be a real treat!
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How about a RAW or Daystate Redwolf? I mean depending on your budget which I never saw these would be a real treat!
Yes, I have considered them. Very spendy, but if nothing else suits that's the way I'll go. Thanks for the recommendation :)
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+1 for Taipan Veteran Long or regular. Built like a tank and accurate out of the box.
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+1 for a taipan. It's my most reliable, most accurate, and easy to shoot gun!
Second suggestion would be a brocock bantam maybe!
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Having consistent accuracy at 100-120 yards, what would you shoot with your brand new rifle when the rabbits are done?
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Probably not gonna be easy to get, and is priced pretty high, but I think an American Air Arms Evol would be perfect. Barrels are threaded in, instead of using setscrews and orings. Still probably gona have oring on the bolt and in other areas required for sealing the gun, but it's pretty hard to beat a tensioned threaded barrel for rugged reliability. I don't understand why there are not more rifles available like that.
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Weird question, apologies if I missed it, but if longer ranges are your goal, why do you prefer a .22? A .25 would be better suited and retain more energy down range. Not saying one caliber or the other is wrong- just wondering about the .22 preference.
Condors are nice, highly adaptable guns... You can add a regulator down the road, but I've never shot a regulated one, and I'm not sure how adding said reg would/wouldn't affect LOP.
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How about a Weihrauch HW100?
Aceros De Hispania and Krale Schietsport carry them in different variations:
https://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/airguns-competition-pcp.asp?product=carabina-weihrauch-hw100-s-fsb (https://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/airguns-competition-pcp.asp?product=carabina-weihrauch-hw100-s-fsb)
https://www.krale.shop/en/weihrauch-hw100-s.html (https://www.krale.shop/en/weihrauch-hw100-s.html)
Thanks,
Taso
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Mike
The Hatsan BT65 comes to the UK as 12ft/lbs rifle they are designed as a 40 + ft/lbs rifle I don't know if you have a ft/lbs restriction in OZ but in .22 / .25 with a good scope they would suit you . Huma in Holland ship regs worldwide and no problem fitting them . I have a .22 with a FAC self tuned reg fitted and running 40ft/lb , anything you need to know shout out .
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100-200 yards... in the real world I think that is .257 100-150 fpe+ slug territory... jmho...
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I would go for an Airforce if available.
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Probably not gonna be easy to get, and is priced pretty high, but I think an American Air Arms Evol would be perfect. Barrels are threaded in, instead of using setscrews and orings. Still probably gona have oring on the bolt and in other areas required for sealing the gun, but it's pretty hard to beat a tensioned threaded barrel for rugged reliability. I don't understand why there are not more rifles available like that.
This is the range we have here in Australia for American Air Arms
gunroom.com.au/product-category/air-rifles/air-arms-air-rifles/
(sorry about the link format, I am not allowed to post proper links here yet because I'm a newbie)
Weird question, apologies if I missed it, but if longer ranges are your goal, why do you prefer a .22? A .25 would be better suited and retain more energy down range. Not saying one caliber or the other is wrong- just wondering about the .22 preference.
The .22 pellet ammo is much more available here, is the main reason. And cheaper. Longer ranges would be the exception; most shots 30-70m.
Condors are nice, highly adaptable guns... You can add a regulator down the road, but I've never shot a regulated one, and I'm not sure how adding said reg would/wouldn't affect LOP.
Thanks, I did not know you could add a regulator down the road. That's nice to know. I'm in contact wirh the Australian importer of this gun right now (spoke to him 10 minutes ago).
How about a Weihrauch HW100?
Taso, I did not think of that. It's now going to be in my top 2 or 3 choices, so thanks. They do sell them here:
gunroom.com.au/product-category/air-rifles/weihrauch-air-rifles/
The Hatsan BT65 comes to the UK as 12ft/lbs rifle they are designed as a 40 + ft/lbs rifle I don't know if you have a ft/lbs restriction in OZ but in .22 / .25 with a good scope they would suit you . Huma in Holland ship regs worldwide and no problem fitting them . I have a .22 with a FAC self tuned reg fitted and running 40ft/lb , anything you need to know shout out .
Les, thanks, I'll refer back to you if I have questions on this. I do have Hatsan on my list, and it is available here:
winchesteraustralia.com.au/categories/_Winchester/FI/FE/FE03?q=&per_page=12
100-200 yards... in the real world I think that is .257 100-150 fpe+ slug territory... jmho...
I agree, but I have sensitive neighbours (which is why I am using an airgun in the first place instead of a centerfire rifle), and also those 100+ yard shots will be the exception.
I would go for an Airforce if available.
Yes, that is my current #1 choice because of the simplicity of design and high fps attainable.
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If you're mainly shooting under 70 yards, why a PCP; especially if it's 30-70 yards?
Hope I'm not stirring the pot, here; but there are numerous spring rifles that will beautifully handle that range, plus some.
Ducking out now,
Archie
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If you're mainly shooting under 70 yards, why a PCP; especially if it's 30-70 yards?
Hope I'm not stirring the pot, here; but there are numerous spring rifles that will beautifully handle that range, plus some.
Yes Archie, good point. I owned a springer for many years as a boy, and I know their capabilities. I suppose I was focused on a PCP because
- quieter (neighbours!). Remember that suppressors are illegal here
- easier on scopes (no double recoil)
- more accurate at long distance (from what I've read)
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How about a Sam Yang / Seneca Sumatra 2500, it's not regulated but it's adjustable power and very powerful on high power, very consistent Fps, it's very dependable, open sights or scope, available in several calibers, price is good, will shoot many different pellet types and weights and it's not very pellet picky, I like mine, Rabbits would be easy targets for a Sumatra out to 100 + yards.
Sumatra is on the top...... ( the other is my browning Citori)
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If you're mainly shooting under 70 yards, why a PCP; especially if it's 30-70 yards?
Hope I'm not stirring the pot, here; but there are numerous spring rifles that will beautifully handle that range, plus some.
Ducking out now,
Archie
Sorry but you out of your mind :) :) :)
I love springers for shooting experience and maintaining technique,...I like to shoot a springer before I take mi PCPs hunting to get tuned up, but.....
PCPs are way more powerful, way more precise and most likely multi shot capability.
My 20 FPE .22 PCP get over 160 shots per fill, has a 10 shots magazine, is way more quiet and light then my springers,.....even if you handpump the effort per shot is probably less that breaking a springer and surely more pleasureful,
once charged I can just shoot and no need cocking and fumble with placing a pellet in the barrel for every shot.
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How about a Sam Yang / Seneca Sumatra 2500, it's not regulated but it's adjustable power and very powerful on high power, very consistent Fps, it's very dependable, open sights or scope, available in several calibers, price is good, will shoot many different pellet types and weights and it's not very pellet picky, I like mine, Rabbits would be easy targets for a Sumatra out to 100 + yards
Thanks for that, Kevin (I also lived in Vista CA, BTW, in Alta Vista Drive, do you know it?).
My wife has now piped up that I probably would get by with a springer, as Archie suggested, which would leave me with lots of money left over for a Stoeger 12ga dbl barreled shotgun for home defence. She has a point. I'm vacillating now, a bit undecided. It's true that once the few pest animals are killed, I won't have a lot of use for the air rifle, maybe once a year get it out to remove any new pests, and to tie up $2K (in Australian dollars, about US$1.4K) in gun, pump, scope and range finder when I can simply get a AU$400 springer with iron sights and still end up with the same result is a bit silly on my part.
:-\
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Still, shooting a springer out to further distances takes a lot of practise. I'd choose a PCP since its free of any recoil. Accuracy is especially important for hunting purposes. The Diana Stormrider for example is an inexpensive, lightweight PCP, no recoil, magazine fed and handpump friendly. You can get them for less than 300 I believe. Ideal little pester a beginner. Comes with open sights aswell.
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If you're mainly shooting under 70 yards, why a PCP; especially if it's 30-70 yards?
Hope I'm not stirring the pot, here; but there are numerous spring rifles that will beautifully handle that range, plus some.
Ducking out now,
Archie
Sorry but you out of your mind :) :) :)
I love springers for shooting experience and maintaining technique,...I like to shoot a springer before I take mi PCPs hunting to get tuned up, but.....
PCPs are way more powerful, way more precise and most likely multi shot capability.
My 20 FPE .22 PCP get over 160 shots per fill, has a 10 shots magazine, is way more quiet and light then my springers,.....even if you handpump the effort per shot is probably less that breaking a springer and surely more pleasureful,
once charged I can just shoot and no need cocking and fumble with placing a pellet in the barrel for every shot.
Obviously, I asked because it's the platform that I shoot.....
But, also, ... because quality springers can be quite accurate, especially below 50 yards, and are capable of longer distances. Most importantly, quality springers are cheaper than many options in the PCP platform. Also, they don't require the added PCP expenses of tanks and pumps/compressors. There is little doubt that platforms capable of shooting heavier pellets and slugs have superior fpe results, and the PCPs are excellent for doing just that. But again, shot placement is just as critical as fpe, if not more so--especially shooting .177, which I wouldn't recommend in this context.
I assumed that shots in excess of 100 yards was what was needed; hence the requirement for a PCP. Lower that range to under 100 yards, and then PCPs are no longer the only option.
Now, I completely plan on buying a PCP but only when I change jobs, retire (head back to the farm), or buy some land locally (for long distance plinking and hunting). So, I'm very interested in what is being discussed here. Also, I'd like to own a magic gun that makes me shoot like a sniper at all distances. ::) :o ;D Nonetheless, I believe that there's a lot of FT shooters in over the years that can attest to the capability of some springers at 75 yards or under. You are correct, however, that I'm out of my league.... 8)
Archie
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Mike first off tell the wife the springer is hold sensitive so a pcp is the way forwards , a Hill pump is good for fitness no gym membership required . In the day Air arm's did some good springers but if you need to have a all purpose out to your limit rifle a pcp is the business .
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Hmmm, killing critters, need accuracy, and likely be shooting at various distances...
Sumatra and a Chinese handpump. These guns are known to be accurate, have adjustable power (and thus adjustable loudness), aren't pellet picky, and... They look nice! At this point, I'll put my $45 Chinese handpump against any other handpump made and save a bundle to use on pellets and optics.
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Thanks for that, Kevin (I also lived in Vista CA, BTW, in Alta Vista Drive, do you know it?).
Alta Vista Dr, Yes I know it, long winding road from Crecent dr to Brengle terrace park, I'm west off Olive ave near Emerald,
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Thank you, everyone, for all the kind and smart advice. I'm going to ponder all the points raised and post again when I have made a decision and/or bought the gun. 8)
Alta Vista Dr, Yes I know it, long winding road from Crecent dr to Brengle terrace park, I'm west off Olive ave near Emerald,
I know it well. For many years my wife and I would take our hour-long evening walks through Brengle Terrace Park. Good times!
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If you're mainly shooting under 70 yards, why a PCP; especially if it's 30-70 yards?
Hope I'm not stirring the pot, here; but there are numerous spring rifles that will beautifully handle that range, plus some.
Ducking out now,
Archie
Sorry but you out of your mind :) :) :)
I love springers for shooting experience and maintaining technique,...I like to shoot a springer before I take mi PCPs hunting to get tuned up, but.....
PCPs are way more powerful, way more precise and most likely multi shot capability.
My 20 FPE .22 PCP get over 160 shots per fill, has a 10 shots magazine, is way more quiet and light then my springers,.....even if you handpump the effort per shot is probably less that breaking a springer and surely more pleasureful,
once charged I can just shoot and no need cocking and fumble with placing a pellet in the barrel for every shot.
Obviously, I asked because it's the platform that I shoot.....
But, also, ... because quality springers can be quite accurate, especially below 50 yards, and are capable of longer distances. Most importantly, quality springers are cheaper than many options in the PCP platform. Also, they don't require the added PCP expenses of tanks and pumps/compressors. There is little doubt that platforms capable of shooting heavier pellets and slugs have superior fpe results, and the PCPs are excellent for doing just that. But again, shot placement is just as critical as fpe, if not more so--especially shooting .177, which I wouldn't recommend in this context.
I assumed that shots in excess of 100 yards was what was needed; hence the requirement for a PCP. Lower that range to under 100 yards, and then PCPs are no longer the only option.
Now, I completely plan on buying a PCP but only when I change jobs, retire (head back to the farm), or buy some land locally (for long distance plinking and hunting). So, I'm very interested in what is being discussed here. Also, I'd like to own a magic gun that makes me shoot like a sniper at all distances. ::) :o ;D Nonetheless, I believe that there's a lot of FT shooters in over the years that can attest to the capability of some springers at 75 yards or under. You are correct, however, that I'm out of my league.... 8)
Archie
Again,...sorry but you out of your mind :) :)
Maybe, maybe a 700 bucks springer can match precision with a 200 bucks PCP and a 50 bucks pump ( at short ranges ) , and if that happens is because the guy shooting the 700 bucks springer is one crack shot,
put those guns in the hands of average every day shooters and they will always do better with the PCP, at any range.
As you said shot placement is paramount so you are going against your own argument.
I had and still have a German quality springer, I can't even get close to my PCP groups at 30 yards, further out you go and the gap just explodes
and that is after repeating shooting, warm up and so on, ....the 1st cold shot is almost never even to be considered valuable
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If you're mainly shooting under 70 yards, why a PCP; especially if it's 30-70 yards?
Hope I'm not stirring the pot, here; but there are numerous spring rifles that will beautifully handle that range, plus some.
Ducking out now,
Archie
Sorry but you out of your mind :) :) :)
I love springers for shooting experience and maintaining technique,...I like to shoot a springer before I take mi PCPs hunting to get tuned up, but.....
PCPs are way more powerful, way more precise and most likely multi shot capability.
My 20 FPE .22 PCP get over 160 shots per fill, has a 10 shots magazine, is way more quiet and light then my springers,.....even if you handpump the effort per shot is probably less that breaking a springer and surely more pleasureful,
once charged I can just shoot and no need cocking and fumble with placing a pellet in the barrel for every shot.
Obviously, I asked because it's the platform that I shoot.....
But, also, ... because quality springers can be quite accurate, especially below 50 yards, and are capable of longer distances. Most importantly, quality springers are cheaper than many options in the PCP platform. Also, they don't require the added PCP expenses of tanks and pumps/compressors. There is little doubt that platforms capable of shooting heavier pellets and slugs have superior fpe results, and the PCPs are excellent for doing just that. But again, shot placement is just as critical as fpe, if not more so--especially shooting .177, which I wouldn't recommend in this context.
I assumed that shots in excess of 100 yards was what was needed; hence the requirement for a PCP. Lower that range to under 100 yards, and then PCPs are no longer the only option.
Now, I completely plan on buying a PCP but only when I change jobs, retire (head back to the farm), or buy some land locally (for long distance plinking and hunting). So, I'm very interested in what is being discussed here. Also, I'd like to own a magic gun that makes me shoot like a sniper at all distances. ::) :o ;D Nonetheless, I believe that there's a lot of FT shooters in over the years that can attest to the capability of some springers at 75 yards or under. You are correct, however, that I'm out of my league.... 8)
Archie
Again,...sorry but you out of your mind :) :)
Maybe, maybe a 700 bucks springer can match precision with a 200 bucks PCP and a 50 bucks pump ( at short ranges ) , and if that happens is because the guy shooting the 700 bucks springer is one crack shot,
put those guns in the hands of average every day shooters and they will always do better with the PCP, at any range.
As you said shot placement is paramount so you are going against your own argument.
No argument from me about your articulated premise for a $200 PCP and a $50 hand pump compared to a $700 quality European made springer.
In fact, no argument from me over the superior shooting capabilities of PCPs over 50 yards.
When it's a $1,500-3,000 PCP + a $1,300 compressor + portable tank for shots in the anticipated 30-70 yard range, my personal ethic would be to spend more time practicing rather than spending more money on a platform that is recognized as unmatched at over 100 yds and plain boring at 30. So your ad hominem aside, what Mike is asking for could be done with a quality springer (I don't believe that C02 can shoot reliability up to 75 yards, but ...) but doing so would definitely take more effort.
Again, I didn't intend to raise the ire of the PCP community (of which I've not yet bought into). You folks shoot the holy grails of airguns. One day, I'll hopefully be the proud owner of a top-notch PCP that will allow me to hit what I aim at, over a 100 yards. The hunting videos here are awesome.
Until then, I'm eradicating the pests in my yard, at short (8 yards) to almost 30 yards with my three active pellet rifles--2 springers and 1 gas ram.
Respectfully, but having fun,
Archie
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Weird question, apologies if I missed it, but if longer ranges are your goal, why do you prefer a .22? A .25 would be better suited and retain more energy down range. Not saying one caliber or the other is wrong- just wondering about the .22 preference.
Condors are nice, highly adaptable guns... You can add a regulator down the road, but I've never shot a regulated one, and I'm not sure how adding said reg would/wouldn't affect LOP.
When the AF gun is dropped in a Mad Dog Stock the bottle length is taken out of the LOP equation.
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Ofc it is possible to shoot 50+ yards with a springer accurately but it takes a lot of practise. And it looks like he wants a gun he can shoot straight away without having to practise. In a hunting situation you have to be flexible and shoot at various angles and distances, sometimes prone, standing unsuported, off of sticks etc. For someone who is not used to springers that can be quite a challenge. POI shifts can always happen.
Diana Stormrider with a cheap pump or some similar setup would be perfect like Hatsan At-44, Vantage 3-9, handpump and a tin of .22 pellets.
Airforce guns are quite expensive aswell.
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I’ll add my 2 cents worth...I love my Gauntlet and it’s very accurate, even out to 100 yards. However, it’s not quite as accurate as my Taipan and you have to be very careful how you handle it as the unbanded barrel is subject to POI changes. These issues are fixable as is the trigger, but the Taipan is ready to go out of the box, it’s quieter, has more power, and you don’t hear of anyone having problems with them (a major selling point) on the forums. If you don’t want to spend $1250 on a gun though, I would seriously consider an Urban. Although I don’t have one, it gets good reviews here on GTA, it’s cheap, it’s light, and if you’re a decent shot, you may be able to stretch it out to 75 yards. If I were in your shoes, that’s probably what I would go with for my first PCP. If you enjoy the sport, then you can move up to a Taipan or something equivalent. JMO. Best wishes!
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+1 for the urban
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Heres a perfect option for your needs https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=160142.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=160142.0)
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Huben K1 .22 semi auto. I've had mine now about a month and absolutely really enjoying it. Fully external adjustable power wheel and regulator. Mine is setup shooting the 25gr. JSB @ 905fps and is a laser, hard hitting, and bucks the wind. 19 shots before reloading. It's starting to take over my air gun fever.
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I know Ozman said he's signing off for a while BUT really he needed to present a list of available brands then ask for a rec. I imagine the UK would be his best source. It's probably easier just buying a .22 rimfire, though I don't know how the gun laws are, but it sounds like it's almost parody, airguns vs firearms. Rabbits are a huge issue there, he can't be the only one battling the menacing "wasklely wabbits."
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Heres a perfect option for your needs https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=160142.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=160142.0)
Now that is a deal to seriously consider. 8)
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Ian,
Now that I know how few orings the airforce guns have, that will likely be my next PCP.
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Guys, thanks to all again, really a wealth of useful information here and lots of leads.
This thread made me look into the Umarex Gauntlet, and it just so happens that my local airgun dealer has a shipment of these in 22 caliber trying to clear Customs as we speak. From what I have read (and seen on YouTube), the Chinese made gun is very good value for the money and a good "gateway to airguns", so I am very interested.
Will update again shortly .....
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Heres a perfect option for your needs https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=160142.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=160142.0)
I would highly consider this.... and Travis can get it to you, I'm sure.
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Hi guys, just popping back in for a quick question: it occurred to me that I could optionally choose to buy a .22LR rifle rather than the .22 airgun. Hear me out. They are roughly the same price here in Australia (I'm comparing a CZ 455 stainless to a Umarex Gauntlet).
(https://dpr5ie4jiu1sc.cloudfront.net/ts1553480631/attachments/Product/8092/CZ455SS22WOOD.tag.0.png)
(https://media.mwstatic.com/product-images/880x660/Primary/243/243262.jpg)
Advantages of a CZ .22LR:
- No pumping, no air tank, no compressor
- Can be as silent as the unsuppressed airgun (here in Australia airguns are NOT suppressed by law) but only IF you use .22 Short ammo (slow moving at ~750fps)
- Stainless steel parts (an advantage in my humid climate)
- No O-rings
- More penetration, higher ballistic coefficient
- More accurate over distance
- Gun is lighter in weight (5-6lbs vs 8.5lbs for Gauntlet)
- Barrel can be interchanged with .17 HMR barrel, giving you a much more powerful round
Advantages of Airgun:
- Cheaper ammunition (approx 6c per pellet here in Australia vs 15c per .22 bullet)
What am I missing, guys? Help me make this decision..... :-\
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Guys, thanks to all again, really a wealth of useful information here and lots of leads.
This thread made me look into the Umarex Gauntlet, and it just so happens that my local airgun dealer has a shipment of these in 22 caliber trying to clear Customs as we speak. From what I have read (and seen on YouTube), the Chinese made gun is very good value for the money and a good "gateway to airguns", so I am very interested.
Will update again shortly .....
I dont want to scare you or anything.. i got my umarex gauntlet .22 and it came with the 0 psi.. the cylinder is loose.. i hand tight it.. now the fill port is touching the botton part of the barrel shroud cover.. i have to remove the cover or cut it.. still waiting for my hand pump..
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I dont want to scare you or anything.. i got my umarex gauntlet .22 and it came with the 0 psi.. the cylinder is loose.. i hand tight it.. now the fill port is touching the botton part of the barrel shroud cover.. i have to remove the cover or cut it.. still waiting for my hand pump..
Oh-oh! Maybe I should also mention that the CZ brand is renowned as high quality, unlike the Umarex (Chinese). You can get high quality airguns, of course, but you pay many buck$.
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Gauntlet .22 .. u can see fill port is touching the cover.. I think I might have to remove every time I pump or cut the cover.
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I dont want to scare you or anything.. i got my umarex gauntlet .22 and it came with the 0 psi.. the cylinder is loose.. i hand tight it.. now the fill port is touching the botton part of the barrel shroud cover.. i have to remove the cover or cut it.. still waiting for my hand pump..
Oh-oh! Maybe I should also mention that the CZ brand is renowned as high quality, unlike the Umarex (Chinese). You can get high quality airguns, of course, but you pay many buck$.
At the same price, go with the CZ. As long as ammo is not a problem, you will not regret it.
I shoot air guns where I live because I can make them SUPER quiet! If I lived where I could shoot .22LR/WMR instead, that IS what I would be shooting.
YMMV and good luck!
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I've just watched a video where it was pointed out that you can take shots at birds in trees with an airgun, but not with a 22LR due to safety issues. So there is that.
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If hatsans are available the Flash QE or even Vectis are cheap but great value, I just got a Flash QE with the new wood stock that looks alot better then the synthetic version.
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I've just watched a video where it was pointed out that you can take shots at birds in trees with an airgun, but not with a 22LR due to safety issues. So there is that.
And even airguns have "pass through", and that is even if you don't miss.
Know your target background. Whether AG or PB, be sure your miss, pass through or ricochet will not endangers others.
I never shoot UP. That opens up a whole other can of worms.
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I recently started a thread that has been moved to the first page of the General Airgun Gate entitled “What caused you to get into airguns?” and you may find some answers to the rimfire/airgun question there. As has already been mentioned, safety, economy, and quietness are just a few reasons noted. Incidentally, I have a Gauntlet and there’s no way a .22 short is as quiet. In our area, .22 shorts are more expensive than the .22 lr. The airgun/rimfire are two entirely different animals. IF you can shoot a .22 SAFELY and are sure you are not interested in the hobby end of the sport, go rimfire. In the long run, it’s cheaper (unless you shoot a lot) and easier. I shoot my airguns almost every day. I find it relaxing and fun.
The other evening, we had a raccoon that was behaving strangely, even aggressively. I have airguns, rimfires, and a shotgun handy. I chose the airgun.
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I have four CZ 452s. If I had to choose between one of them and a PCP, CZ would win every time.
My 452 Ultra Lux, with it's 28" barrel and CCI subsonic, is about as quiet as my Marauder.
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Hi guys, just popping back in for a quick question: it occurred to me that I could optionally choose to buy a .22LR rifle rather than the .22 airgun. Hear me out. They are roughly the same price here in Australia (I'm comparing a CZ 455 stainless to a Umarex Gauntlet).
(https://dpr5ie4jiu1sc.cloudfront.net/ts1553480631/attachments/Product/8092/CZ455SS22WOOD.tag.0.png)
(https://media.mwstatic.com/product-images/880x660/Primary/243/243262.jpg)
Advantages of a CZ .22LR:
- No pumping, no air tank, no compressor
- Can be as silent as the unsuppressed airgun (here in Australia airguns are NOT suppressed by law) but only IF you use .22 Short ammo (slow moving at ~750fps)
- Stainless steel parts (an advantage in my humid climate)
- No O-rings
- More penetration, higher ballistic coefficient
- More accurate over distance
- Gun is lighter in weight (5-6lbs vs 8.5lbs for Gauntlet)
- Barrel can be interchanged with .17 HMR barrel, giving you a much more powerful round
Advantages of Airgun:
- Cheaper ammunition (approx 6c per pellet here in Australia vs 15c per .22 bullet)
What am I missing, guys? Help me make this decision..... :-\
You're thinking of shooting a .22 rimfire on 5 acres? I'm glad I'm not your neighbor. You're better off using an air gun
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You're thinking of shooting a .22 rimfire on 5 acres? I'm glad I'm not your neighbor. You're better off using an air gun
Er.. my block is in a valley and surrounded by 30 yard high trees. But I agree that otherwise the 22LR would be dangerous.
I have four CZ 452s. If I had to choose between one of them and a PCP, CZ would win every time. My 452 Ultra Lux, with it's 28" barrel and CCI subsonic, is about as quiet as my Marauder.
I've been pondering this for a while. It appears that "quiet" (~700fps) 22LR rounds burn all their gasses about 16-18" into the barrel, at the most (actually that's for standard 22LR, so the quiet rounds will stop burning gas even sooner). After that there is some acceleration, but at about 22" and onwards the extended muzzle just acts as a brake on the round, so the super quiet rounds coming out of a super long (24-28") barrel will have slowed down to around 600fps and maybe less, making it a poor choice for shooting to 75-100 yards (lots of droop at that distance). And I want to shoot to that distance.
You can see some basic 22LR ballistics here, and you can see what happens once the barrel gets beyond 22":
ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html (I'm not allowed to post links yet, so just copy and paste that URL into your browser)
IF you can shoot a .22 SAFELY and are sure you are not interested in the hobby end of the sport, go rimfire.
It's not so much a safety issue as a noise issue. Australians are big complainers when they hear rifle shots. I'm frankly very worried about causing a complaint and the ramifications that would cause. This is the one big thing pushing me towards a PCP and not a 22LR.
Turns out if I want a really quiet 22LR, I will have to buy a CZ 455 Lux II (25" barrel), which is more expensive than the stainless CZ I referenced above. It's also not stainless. It's also not equipped with interchangeable barrels. So many of the attractions of the rimfire option disappear. And then I also have to use "quiet" (slow) ammunition, which is useless much beyond 50 yards. And yet it's dangerous for much further than pellets. So I'm not so keen anymore. :-\ :(
I'm edging back to the PCP option, but worried to see the Gauntlet's poor quality control.
Here's a guy testing the sound of a PCP against a CZ 22LR: youtu.be/uZnhuFqfZxQ
(I'm not allowed to post links yet, so just copy and paste that URL into your browser)
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I've only read part of this thread. What I get from it is you have 5 acres and want to shoot.
.22LR or .22 Air rifle.
In Texas, they require you have a minimum of 10 acres to be able to discharge firearms on your property. I live on 3 acres and my brother-in-law lives on 5. Sometimes, depending on the direction I feel wary about shooting the air rifle, let alone a .22 LR.
Having only 5 acres, I would stick to getting an air rifle and have that piece of mind that you are not shooting a projectile that will continue for several hundred yards if nothing stopped it.
maybe I skipped over it, but what is your budget?
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Having only 5 acres, I would stick to getting an air rifle and have that piece of mind that you are not shooting a projectile that will continue for several hundred yards if nothing stopped it.
I'm surrounded by tall trees, so that is not as much an issue as sound. Good sound suppression in a 22LR without a silencer means using slow ammo that is not much use beyond 50 yards, yet cannot be fired upwards into trees due to its ballistic coefficient downrange (some would argue not to shoot pellets upwards either, but the BC is much, much lower so mishaps at several hundred yards are highly unlikely).
So yes, I agree with you, and I'm back on track to getting a PCP.
maybe I skipped over it, but what is your budget?
I'm in Australia where prices are insanely high, so it wouldn't mean much to you. But I'd like to get a (relatively) cheap Chinese (eg Umarex) or Turkish (eg Kral) PCP to start with.
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Between a stainless steel CZ455 and an Umarex Gauntlet, or any .22 airgun for that matter, the CZ455 wins in every category by a wide margin except sound and price of ammo. Might ruffle some feathers but it is what it is. If you are using it to hunt or kill pest moreso than target practice the cost of .22 lr is pretty negligible to me.
What you are getting with the air rifle is that it is quiet and can be shot in the neighborhood, has limited range so more safe around pens and around a lot of animals etc. And if you shoot targets every day... I have burned through more than one 500 ct tin of pellets in a day with just a breakbarrel springer.
If you can't have both, and you don't own a rimfire, then go with the CZ .22 LR.
Got a rimfire and other firearms already? A nice PCP airgun would complement them nicely.
If it is all about price and value for money, I think you could argue that you get more gun than the CZ in a nice European springer for about the same price. Less power and etc. but build quality is there, real nice trigger, nice wood, etc.
Good luck with it.
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In Texas, they require you have a minimum of 10 acres to be able to discharge firearms on your property.
In Texas This is ONLY true in some subdivisions / locations and not on most unincorporated land where the only rule is a projectile must not cross a property line!
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It's not so much a safety issue as a noise issue. Australians are big complainers when they hear rifle shots. I'm frankly very worried about causing a complaint and the ramifications that would cause. This is the one big thing pushing me towards a PCP and not a 22LR.
Turns out if I want a really quiet 22LR, I will have to buy a CZ 455 Lux II (25" barrel), which is more expensive than the stainless CZ I referenced above. It's also not stainless. It's also not equipped with interchangeable barrels. So many of the attractions of the rimfire option disappear. And then I also have to use "quiet" (slow) ammunition, which is useless much beyond 50 yards. And yet it's dangerous for much further than pellets. So I'm not so keen anymore. :-\ :(
I bought my CZ 452 Ultra Lux specifically to shoot/hunt where although legal, people in the area will sometimes call the Sheriff if they hear gunfire close by.
CCI "Quiet-22" is not known for its accuracy. Had horrible vertical stringing out of the few long-barreled rifles I tried it in. However, CCI "Standard Velocity" (~950 fps at the muzzle out of my 28" barrel) is very accurate out to 100 yds yet still very quiet. Subsonic, so there is no sonic crack that you get with HV .22 lr. The report (outdoors) sounds about like a solid hand clap. I had a buddy shoot some while I was standing ~100 yds away and I think most would assume it's an airgun at that distance.
Also, if you want (maybe you don't?) a .22 air rifle that will deliver close to .22 lr energy + accuracy out to 100 yds, you're going to have to spend significant money on one that will shoot slugs at similar velocity. And in many cases it's still going to make some noise. You may have to invest in something to quiet it down if you require significantly less noise than the rimfire rifle/ammo combination described above.
Regardless, everyone should have a .22 lr rifle. And a .22 PCP rifle. ;)
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CCI "Quiet-22" is not known for its accuracy. Had horrible vertical stringing out of the few long-barreled rifles I tried it in. However, CCI "Standard Velocity" (~950 fps at the muzzle out of my 28" barrel) is very accurate out to 100 yds yet still very quiet. Subsonic, so there is no sonic crack that you get with HV .22 lr. The report (outdoors) sounds about like a solid hand clap. I had a buddy shoot some while I was standing ~100 yds away and I think most would assume it's an airgun at that distance.
That's a very interesting comment, Vee3! It contrasts with something someone else told me, who also has the gun you mention and uses that same ammo. I quote:
The super quiet "CCI Quiet 40gr lrn" ammo that I use in it makes the CZ extremely quiet to use. Great for hunting/plinking on small acreage when you don't wanna bother the neighbors. The cci quiet only runs about 670fps and is too under powered and inconsistent for anything past about 30 to 40m, it's much much slower, quieter and less consistent then normal subsonic 22lr.
So I asked:
Have you tried the normal subsonic stuff through the CZ? I'm wondering how much noisier it would be ....
He replied:
Yeah it's noticeably louder. More accurate,consistent and handles the wind pretty well but also much much louder
BTW, more problems with the one truly quiet round for the 22LR, the CCI "quiet" round:
- It has a 5"-6.5" drop at 50 yards and a 2-3.5" group with that drop. So not a long range option. Meant for 10-30 yards max.
- Many sources report that the first shot of the day with the CCI Quiet would be 30fps slower and 2" lower at 25 yards than the next rounds. This makes the ammo pretty useless for pest control where your first shot might well be your only shot
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If you like hunting, you may enjoy the challenge to get closer to the rabbits; including the option to find a good spot to leave a blind 'ready to go'. In both cases, you would have a lot of cheaper options for an air rifle.
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I shoot almost nothing but CCI Quiet because my daughter is sensitive to noise. Never saw any of those problems.
Traiectory at 50 yards... come on my man.
2" cold bore outliers? If you are comparing it to pellets, a light gust of wind will blow most .22 pellets a couple inches at 50 yards.
It's a 25 -30 yard load (CCI Quiet) and same for .22 pellets unless it's a calm day or you are a pro at judging and conpensating for wind.
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Almost forgot, my RWS 34 is louder than CCI Quiet in my daughter's 16" barrel on her cricket.
Also 20 yards CCI Quiet and CCI Stingers are interchangeable in that rifle. Talk about versatility.
Not quite as accurate as a good air rifle though.
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In Texas, they require you have a minimum of 10 acres to be able to discharge firearms on your property.
In Texas This is ONLY true in some subdivisions / locations and not on most unincorporated land where the only rule is a projectile must not cross a property line!
I was about to say, somebody better tell my neighbors. We're all going to jail.
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In Texas, they require you have a minimum of 10 acres to be able to discharge firearms on your property.
In Texas This is ONLY true in some subdivisions / locations and not on most unincorporated land where the only rule is a projectile must not cross a property line!
I was about to say, somebody better tell my neighbors. We're all going to jail. "10 acre rule" hahaha
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I shoot almost nothing but CCI Quiet because my daughter is sensitive to noise. Never saw any of those problems. Trajectory at 50 yards... come on my man.
My apologies, I have no experience with the CCI Quiet, I am merely reporting the evidence shown by others using the ammunition on YouTube. So whom do I believe, you or my lying eyes? ;)
2" cold bore outliers? If you are comparing it to pellets, a light gust of wind will blow most .22 pellets a couple inches at 50 yards.
The cold bore outliers make pesting impossible. I've seen them happen on at least 2 videos, different channels, both times commented upon by the channel author. It does happen. With pellets, you can avoid wind drift most of the time (allow windage, or wait for calm).
It's a 25 -30 yard load (CCI Quiet) and same for .22 pellets unless it's a calm day or you are a pro at judging and compensating for wind.
I've seen pellets make tight groups out to 100 yards, unlike CCI Quiet.
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Just for my own reference, "first shot flyers" are usually called CBFs or "cold barrel flyers", and the best explanation is that a cold bore has no moisture in it. After a shot, the bore will always have condensation in it (a by-product from the combustion process). The way in which that water changes the friction on the bullet (with or without a layer of lube) with successive shots can account for high and low outliers.
One guy cured CBFs with PAM spray!
rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414352
Another note about the so-called CCI Quiet rounds: I have now seen 2 reports of people who had them "stick" in the barrel after firing. This could be very bad news of you don't check the barrel. Yet another reason to stay with pellets?
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Always spit on your first pellet, we used to keep a few spares in our mouth for fast follow ups on multiple targets. ;D
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Always spit on your first pellet, we used to keep a few spares in our mouth for fast follow ups on multiple targets. ;D
I wasn't talking about pellets, I was talking about .22LR Quiet bullets.
Please don't tell me you are putting lead pellets in your mouth! :o
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I shoot almost nothing but CCI Quiet because my daughter is sensitive to noise. Never saw any of those problems. Trajectory at 50 yards... come on my man.
My apologies, I have no experience with the CCI Quiet, I am merely reporting the evidence shown by others using the ammunition on YouTube. So whom do I believe, you or my lying eyes? ;)
2" cold bore outliers? If you are comparing it to pellets, a light gust of wind will blow most .22 pellets a couple inches at 50 yards.
The cold bore outliers make pesting impossible. I've seen them happen on at least 2 videos, different channels, both times commented upon by the channel author. It does happen. With pellets, you can avoid wind drift most of the time (allow windage, or wait for calm).
It's a 25 -30 yard load (CCI Quiet) and same for .22 pellets unless it's a calm day or you are a pro at judging and compensating for wind.
I've seen pellets make tight groups out to 100 yards, unlike CCI Quiet.
Well then why don't you try it out for yourself. Try some CCI Quiet.
Also try shooting at 100 with an air rifle. Get ready to be disappointed.
2" outliers on a clean cold bore i promise you is not the norm with CCI Quiet.
But I digress.
Don't feed the troll guys.
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So I asked:
Have you tried the normal subsonic stuff through the CZ? I'm wondering how much noisier it would be ....
He replied:
Yeah it's noticeably louder. More accurate,consistent and handles the wind pretty well but also much much louder
Yup, a hand clap is much much louder than a fart.
As noted, maybe it's time for you to go out and get some real-world, 1st hand experience.
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OK a couple of things guys... This thread has been reported by other members.
#1 There is too much talk about rimfire which is against the rules. Discussions should be about airguns, period.
#2 Do not create conflict and call someone names, like a "troll". This also violates the rules and you will get a 14-day vacation if you do it twice. If you think someone is trolling or violating any of the Forum's rules you can click on the "Report to Moderator" button on a specific post, and explain what you think the issue is. Do not characterize others on the open forum or insult them. It only creates conflict and the thread will go south fast. Let the staff handle it and take action if thhey feel it's justified.
You need to get back on topic with this thread and quit talking about powder burners or the thread will be locked. Also you are all adults here. Play nice, make recommendations, and treat others with respect.
Harry
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Thanks for the comment, moderator. Much appreciated. I'm done with powder burners, but it was an interesting exercise for me to have considered them. I'm glad I did, and some of the feedback was very informative. I suspect that many newbies go through the same thinking. (I'm not a newbie to airguns, having owned a Daisy when a boy 50 years ago, and also owned over 20 handguns, shotguns and centerfire weapons in my life).
I'm pretty much back on track and focused on getting my PCP shortly. Probably a Gauntlet, but maybe a Kral Puncher.
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I think you can get better repeatable accuracy with an air rifle. One of my 10 shot chronographed groups with the above mentioned rimfire ammo had spread of 123fps.
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I think you can get better repeatable accuracy with an air rifle. One of my 10 shot chronographed groups with the above mentioned rimfire ammo had spread of 123fps.
Yup, air rifles it is! I just needed to clarify that in my own mind, although I seem to have upset some of the locals in so doing.
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I’m not sure if it was mentioned or not but a regulated Marauder might just fit the bill. I should warn you , if you look at just about everyone’s signature , no one owns just one PCP . It’s a rabbit hole .
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The Marauder is an excellent choice for a first PCP tons of aftermarket parts and lots of available information on tuning and modding right here. A second option is the Evanix Rainstorm II fit DRT out to 50 yards either will fill the bill nicely and for a little more thump both are available in .25. Both can be easily upgraded to an aftermarket regulator for better shot to shot consistancy.
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I personally agree with the OP's/Mike's choice of the Gauntlet, and not because I own one - I own both Marauder and Gauntlet and other PCP's. Here are my reasons why:
1. The OP mentioned he will only shoot some pests and once he eliminates the problem he will put the airgun away, and use it only if the pests return. Why spend twice as much for the Marauder if it's for limited use?
2. The Gauntlet comes Regulated from the factory (and shrouded). No need for mods or additional expenses. My .22 Gauntlet gets 61-62 shots at 22.7 FPE and it's very consistent averaging 805fps at the muzzle with JSB 15.89gr. Extreme spread was 6fps and standard deviation 1fps. ~23fpe is plenty of energy to humanely kill any small game animal inside 40 yards with good shot placement (head shots).
3. It's a multi-shot just like the Marauder and it is HALF the price, gets >2x the number of shots. Mine cost $221 shipped to my door from Sportsman's Guide with a $25 coupon, and they had free shipping.
4. The Gauntlet is accurate to 30 yards and by that I mean smaller than 1/2 inch groups. Sometimes I get 0.35" if I do my part. 30 yards is the max. I shoot/pest on my property these days no matter what PCP I use. Some Marauder .22 's might be slightly more accurate, but some may not. For the most part they are very comparable in accuracy, but sometimes you can get .22 Mrod's that just can't group and need to be returned or have a barrel swap. Now my Marauder .25 is more accurate than the Gauntlet .22, but it comes with a Green Mountain target barrel, stock. The Mrod .22 does not, so you cannot compare the Gauntlet .22 to an Mrod .25. I am comparing .22's.
Edit: The Mrod has a better trigger so that makes it a really good air rifle. Is that worth almost twice as much $$ ? For some yes, for some no. The regulator and low price is the Gauntlet's strongest selling points.
Harry
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Sorry, I disagree with both of you....
For the OP's intended purpose I'll take an Urban.
If I'm not mistaken he'll be hand pumping. The smaller air capacity will take less effort.
Shot count and the expensive spare mags are a non issue for pesting. As a matter of fact, in a pesting situation you probably wouldn't even need a repeater.. unless you are being invaded by an army of zombie pests.
Both the Gauntlet and MRod are larger, heavier guns. The Urban with it's thumbhole stock is very manageable.
The ugly pickle actually works.
From what I've read, the Gauntlet is hit or miss. When I see someone like Hajimoto do videos on guns doing this mod and that fix it makes me wonder why it needs all these mods to begin with? "This is how you fix the trigger" "This is how you stop the leaks" "This is how you do that and that is how you do this".
The MRod.... There are so many mods and upgrades for that gun that owning one leaves you wanting to buy all of them so you can be all you can be.... like the rest of the guys.
I bought my Urban for $220.... opened the box and did this.... and I've been doing it ever since...
10 shots at 30yds..
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I’m not sure if it was mentioned or not but a regulated Marauder might just fit the bill. I should warn you , if you look at just about everyone’s signature , no one owns just one PCP . It’s a rabbit hole .
Marauder is AU$1350 in Australia (equivalent to US$950 or CA$1242)
http://ausarms.com.au/links/product.php?id=10304 (http://ausarms.com.au/links/product.php?id=10304)
Thanks for the suggestion
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Holy smokes , and I thought is Canadians were getting the short end of the stick . That’s wayyyyyy too much for a marauder . Maybe check something me classifieds to see what f something comes up . I’ve never seen an Urban so I can’t comment . If it’s indeed accurate then why not .
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Marauder is AU$1350 in Australia (equivalent to US$950 or CA$1242)
Thanks for the suggestion
Wow, that's nuts. Almost cheaper for a return flight to the US and buy this one!
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=160362.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=160362.0)
Or... make a vacation of it and pick up a big powerful Raptor .30
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=159829.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=159829.0)
(... not being serious btw... importing any firearm-rated airguns would likely be painful...)
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Locked for admin review.
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Thanks to everyone who made useful responses in this thread. I've finally made a decision, and it was not an easy one. I've decided to put an airgun purchase on hold for a while, and get a 22LR rimfire instead. I took a lot of things into consideration, some of which only apply to me, some to the country where I live (Australia).
I know it's against the rules to discuss rimfire here, so I won't list all the reasons, and maybe soon I'll be back when I have the dough to buy an airgun as well.
Thanks again! 8)
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I'm sure it was a tough decision Mike.
We'll be right here when you are ready.
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I saw a Sumatra 22 carbine on the au site you posted. Good accurate powerful.
I know it might be a little late and I have not read this whole thread but for an all around pcp pesting rifle it can’t be beat.
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Advice wanted. :)
Located in Australia, I need a regulated PCP airgun for rabbit control on 5 acres, but please, no FX recommendations*
Here are my requirements:
- Caliber .22 or .25 (preferably 22)
- Capable of 900-1000 fps
- Regulated pressure (consistent shooting)
- Accurate to 100-120m/yards
- As few O-rings as possible
- Rugged, durable design
- Reputation for reliability
- Reputation for barrel accuracy (Lothar Walther?)
- I do not need the ability to swap out barrels and change calibers
- I do not need a magazine, single shot acceptable. Magazine would be nice though.
- I do not need high shot capacity (i.e. a big air reservoir) Will be hand pumping.
Recommendations please!
* FX airguns seem to have little or no quality control ex factory. I've read hundreds of owner accounts of problems on various forums, and even seen two dealers (now 3, including AoA) refuse to sell them because of the the return rate. I just don't need or want the drama in my life.
In this case my choice is .22 the Sam Yang Snipe 500cc double tank and in .25 the Sam Yang Sparrow 500cc double tank:
- both single shot, easy to load and easy to uncock
- at maximum power .22 130 Joule and .25 160J with 'heavy' slugs
- shoots very accurate with the Sam Yang/ Eujin Spitsers
- easy to maintain and handle
- these are almost exacly the same build like the Recluse, Light hunter and Dragon Claw
- a lot of air in the 500cc airtanks: no nead for a internal regulator for the first 5 shots at maximum power
- a good value for the money
I have not found a lot of information on the internet about them.
https://pellet-guns.com/precharged-pneumatic-pcp/60-snipe-big-bore-calibre-55mm.html
I am very happy with mine. If there was a .177 singel shot Sam Yang, I would buy one. (Don't tell my wife ;D )
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- Advice wanted. :)
Located in Australia, I need a regulated PCP airgun for rabbit control on 5 acres, but please, no FX recommendations*
Here are my requirements:
- Caliber .22 or .25 (preferably 22)
- Capable of 900-1000 fps
- Regulated pressure (consistent shooting)
- Accurate to 100-120m/yards
- As few O-rings as possible
- Rugged, durable design
- Reputation for reliability
- Reputation for barrel accuracy (Lothar Walther?)
- I do not need the ability to swap out barrels and change calibers
- I do not need a magazine, single shot acceptable. Magazine would be nice though.
- I do not need high shot capacity (i.e. a big air reservoir) Will be hand pumping.
Recommendations please!
* FX airguns seem to have little or no quality control ex factory. I've read hundreds of owner accounts of problems on various forums, and even seen two dealers (now 3, including AoA) refuse to sell them because of the the return rate. I just don't need or want the drama in my life.
In this case my choice is .22 the Sam Yang Snipe 500cc double tank and in .25 the Sam Yang Sparrow 500cc double tank:
- both single shot, easy to load and easy to uncock
- at maximum power .22 130 Joule and .25 160J with 'heavy' slugs
- shoots very accurate with the Sam Yang/ Eujin Spitsers
- easy to maintain and handle
- these are almost exacly the same build like the Recluse, Light hunter and Dragon Claw
- a lot of air in the 500cc airtanks: no nead for a internal regulator for the first 5 shots at maximum power
- a good value for the money
I have not found a lot of information on the internet about them.
https://pellet-guns.com/precharged-pneumatic-pcp/60-snipe-big-bore-calibre-55mm.html (https://pellet-guns.com/precharged-pneumatic-pcp/60-snipe-big-bore-calibre-55mm.html)
I am very happy with mine. If there was a .177 singel shot Sam Yang, I would buy one. (Don't tell my wife ;D )
WOW! 130 Joules is 95.88 FPE out of a .22? What weight pellet and how fast is the muzzle velocity?
Oops... that might only be 73.75 FPE, (maybe I did not use the first online converter correctly), but still out of a .22 air rifle?
Again, what pellet weight and what muzzle velocity? :o
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My Air Force Escape UL .22 is tuned and set up to give me 90 FPE with a 50 gr. slug.
Not too many production guns can do that easily as Air Force.
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My Air Force Escape UL .22 is tuned and set up to give me 90 FPE with a 50 gr. slug.
Not too many production guns can do that easily as Air Force.
I could use Chairgun to try and figure out your muzzle velocity, but could you just post it instead?
Thanks!
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905 FPS ;)
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905 FPS ;)
Thanks! Verified in Chairgun.
I knew it wasn't a pellet. (chuckle/grin/smile)
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WOW! 130 Joules is 95.88 FPE out of a .22? What weight pellet and how fast is the muzzle velocity?
Oops... that might only be 73.75 FPE, (maybe I did not use the first online converter correctly), but still out of a .22 air rifle?
Again, what pellet weight and what muzzle velocity? :o
Sam Yang Snipe 5,5mm at maximum power and air pressure 200 bar:
48 grains slug: v=262m/s: 130 Joule
46 grains slug: v=281m/s: 118 Joule
(Use a 54 grains slug in .224 for more accuracy. No shotstring made also not for a 35 grains slug. All these slugs were casted.)
Pellets:
Sam Yang Spitser 33 grain : v=321m/s: 110 Joule
Sam Yang domed 28 grain : v=338m/s: 105 Joule
Straton Jumbo Monster 25(,39) gr.: v=367m/s: 91 Joule
The Snipe is very good to tune for more power. Something for Will P?
About 315m/s for the .224 54 grains slug would be nice :D
BTW a .22 HMR-Snipe would also be a interesting project.
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Thanks to everyone who made useful responses in this thread. I've finally made a decision, and it was not an easy one. I've decided to put an airgun purchase on hold for a while, and get a 22LR rimfire instead. I took a lot of things into consideration, some of which only apply to me, some to the country where I live (Australia).
I know it's against the rules to discuss rimfire here, so I won't list all the reasons, and maybe soon I'll be back when I have the dough to buy an airgun as well.
Thanks again! 8)
I think you made the right decision.
My guess is you'll be shopping for a quality springer to fill a different niche around the house :)