GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: SwampHunter on June 13, 2019, 02:23:14 AM
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I saw they still have one for sale, but only in .177 think it would be good for small game hunting? Looks really fast, think it could push slugs, and if so would they be any good on game?
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I have the AT44 PA and the Tactical pistol in .177, the AT44 does well with the 13.xx gr JSB monsters, and the 15 gr NSA slugs. The pistol joes good with the 105 gr CPD and the 13.xx monsters though at a little less FPS.
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I have the AT44 PA and the Tactical pistol in .177, the AT44 does well with the 13.xx gr JSB monsters, and the 15 gr NSA slugs. The pistol joes good with the 105 gr CPD and the 13.xx monsters though at a little less FPS.
Thanks you, what kind of groups are you getting with the at44?
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I'd do it (have done it...continue to do it), so long as you are planning to hunt normal small game critters (tree squirrels/rabits,or whatever eating critter of about the same weight).
But I'd also get a selection of heavier weight .177 pellets (odd man out,but the speed/energy balance seems to favor the 13-16 grain pellets).
Kind of lost track of how long ago I got a Pneuma...which is the old single shot version of the AT 44 .177. Only real mechanical difference is the lower reciever and not a repeater (the guts and barrel seem the same to me).
Can't tell you want today's version would give in energy...although HAtsan AT44's are known to be timd.
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That will make a great gun for small game hunting! Nowadays, we have access to pellets up to 16 grains, and slugs up to 21 grains in .177. The AT44 isn't short on power, so it can handle most any of the options out there. It can also be modded(with very little cost) to make all the power you could possibly want in .177. I have a .22 capable of 70fpe and I have a .177 capable of 45fpe. I shoot the .177 the most for critters, and it is tuned to around 18fpe(which the AT44 can do easily). .177 is a great pesting caliber, with high shot count and low noise :)
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That will make a great gun for small game hunting! Nowadays, we have access to pellets up to 16 grains, and slugs up to 21 grains in .177. The AT44 isn't short on power, so it can handle most any of the options out there. It can also be modded(with very little cost) to make all the power you could possibly want in .177. I have a .22 capable of 70fpe and I have a .177 capable of 45fpe. I shoot the .177 the most for critters, and it is tuned to around 18fpe(which the AT44 can do easily). .177 is a great pesting caliber, with high shot count and low noise :)
Donny, what pellets do you use for critters? I've been using the 10 grain Crosman Domed and they do pretty well, but would like to try something a bit heavier that will still give consistent accuracy.
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I have a AT44 .177 with a Lane regulator tuned at 820 FPS. I'll shoot sub MOA groups all day long at 50 yard with 10gr JSB's. It has no problem with a ethical dispatch.
To keep it from wasting air, I had to use a 12lbs valve and open the port up to .168. The regulator is set at 105bar. Before the slowest I could get it was 940 FPS and it wasted air and made a lot of noise.
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Thank you all for your help but I ended up going for a Hastan flash .25 myself mostly because I would like to hunt Turkeys and it would be legal to do so with the .25 here. My friend is still thinking about going with this setup because he has the larger calibers. He really wants a .20 but it would be too much agravation to get. When he orders it I will let you guys know how it turns out, thank you again, it really helps out to be able to get advice from all the awesome people on here!
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Depending on what you are shooting, am not real sure heavy pellets/higher energy really makes that much difference on little critters(pest birds/rats/even small squirrels). Does put more energy out of the off side of the critter, but doesn't really deposit much more inside.
(can dig up an old post testing this. Basically a chrono. set up ahead of a small critter sized chunk of test media, and a chronograph on the other side to get the vel. which lets you figure the energy lost in the test media.)
So I normally don't push .177's that hard. unless I have a good reason to need deeper penetration. I do keep one (and old BAM 50) setup "hot",but mostly it'sbecasue it is what that rifles seems to like best (and occasionaly I'll shoot an opposum or racoonwith it).
IF I have need for a more immediate "splatter"effect (and if your rifle will shoot one of the good hollow points/poly mags) then push them fast enough to open on lite resistance(bird-bombs).
As for your friend's urge for a 5mm...really aren't a lot of 5mm PCP' offered. Not against the idea, esp. now that the JSB 15.9's are shipping. Even as a 5mm fan,cannot say it really does anything "better" than a .22 of the same make....but I rather like the old .20.
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I have never owned a .20 personaly but he remembers them as a kid and has never had so he wants to try it, if nothing else it will be a lesson earned! Thank you for your input about it, hopefully he gets the AT44, I would like to shoot a hot .177. I have always been a .22 n up fan myself
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It's mostly because it is a 5mm...and anyone who lusted after a Sheridan "C" as a kid has likely got a (somewhat suppressed) like for the caliber....so mark it up to the old Beeman Hype and the urge for a taste of yester-year in a today's-year style rifle.
(As a kid,the "rich kids" got sheridans, and their parents paid for the rifle and the pellets. Peashants (Like me) had to work for it, and did keep an eye on pellet costs as we had to buy those too.)
With so few options...and none of them really inexpensive....it's just not going to be an option for most folks who research the availibity of rifles AND the selection of pellets (considering every PCP has a favorite...the fewer pelklets, the less chance of that "magic" pellet.)
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I have the AT44 PA and the Tactical pistol in .177, the AT44 does well with the 13.xx gr JSB monsters, and the 15 gr NSA slugs. The pistol joes good with the 105 gr CPD and the 13.xx monsters though at a little less FPS.
Thanks you, what kind of groups are you getting with the at44?
Well I did shoot it at 200 yards by mistake thinking I was @ the 100 yd berm, and I found my group 18 " below my shoot n see, in the webbing of the plastic snow fence, if i squared off the missing holes where there was no fence, I would say 4 " @ 200yds. ???
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I saw they still have one for sale, but only in .177 think it would be good for small game hunting? Looks really fast, think it could push slugs, and if so would they be any good on game?
I saw this ad for this gun, and its a great price. It is a possibility I get it, but I have more research to do on it. if I could get a good solid bell curve with 177 cal 13.4gr Monsters I may get it. Shooting 825-850fps for 30+shots it would be worth it. !
wll
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Possible...may not get there easy (not by just fiddling around with adjustment screws) but possible with 180cc tube (the short one) and enough fiddling around with striker spring tension/fill pressure/valve exit ports.
I left the old single shot Pneuma at this point (40-41 shots at 16 foot pounds)...which is like 650 foot pounds of energy per fill...so I can see where that could be able to convert to 30-32 shots at 20 foot pounds in the4 same velocity range.
Boxed in are thr 3% shots....but I normally coult the 4% shots:
(https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/ribbonstone/pneuma/545d2c99-7e22-4e36-933a-12f8b4b70fe1.jpg) (https://s157.photobucket.com/user/ribbonstone/media/pneuma/545d2c99-7e22-4e36-933a-12f8b4b70fe1.jpg.html)
PAst experince with regulated PCP's would see something like twice the shots, but also something like twice the air use...so it's pretty much a Vegas "push bet".
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I have the AT44 PA and the Tactical pistol in .177, the AT44 does well with the 13.xx gr JSB monsters, and the 15 gr NSA slugs. The pistol joes good with the 105 gr CPD and the 13.xx monsters though at a little less FPS.
Thanks you, what kind of groups are you getting with the at44?
Well I did shoot it at 200 yards by mistake thinking I was @ the 100 yd berm, and I found my group 18 " below my shoot n see, in the webbing of the plastic snow fence, if i squared off the missing holes where there was no fence, I would say 4 " @ 200yds. ???
That's pretty good for 200!!
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PAst experince with regulated PCP's would see something like twice the shots, but also something like twice the air use...so it's pretty much a Vegas "push bet".
I don't always catch on so fast, could you explain what you mean please?
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OK...really don't want to convert this to a regulated vs.non-regulated discussion.
I like regulated rifles, and find thy do their best in comparsion to tuned non-regulated rifles when you do not try to push them to the same power levels you can get from non regulated rifles.
Vast majority of my posts have been in support of less power/more uniformity...which is what regulation is made to do.
With an eye to my past post's shot count. Can get 35 really good non-regulated shots (hanging around3%)for about 600psi of air use. Happens around 2800-2200psi, which is only 500psi out of the 180cc's of volume.
Regulate it to run from 3000-1800 (about a 125BAr regulator output),which would use 1200psi of a 180cc volume.....I'd have to expect 2X the number of good shots (70) at the same energy level to be even in air use. (the "push bet" is a kind of an old term for even).
The AT44 is pretty easy to regulate. With interchangeable air tubes that also have the whole valve assembly, coiuld easily make one a regulated tube and leave the other tube non-regulated.
Regaurdless of caliber wouldexpect to be able to get a short run of nice hihger power shots from the non-regulated tube over a short pressure range (pretty much what I'd want for hunting).....and a really long string of lower power regulated shots over a wide pressure range (pretty much what I'd want for playing).
Do find it esp. attractive in .177....which is my choice in playing around calibers, and where lower energy/long shot counts are a big plus.
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OK...really don't want to convert this to a regulated vs.non-regulated discussion.
I like regulated rifles, and find thy do their best in comparsion to tuned non-regulated rifles when you do not try to push them to the same power levels you can get from non regulated rifles.
Vast majority of my posts have been in support of less power/more uniformity...which is what regulation is made to do.
With an eye to my past post's shot count. Can get 35 really good non-regulated shots (hanging around3%)for about 600psi of air use. Happens around 2800-2200psi, which is only 500psi out of the 180cc's of volume.
Regulate it to run from 3000-1800 (about a 125BAr regulator output),which would use 1200psi of a 180cc volume.....I'd have to expect 2X the number of good shots (70) at the same energy level to be even in air use. (the "push bet" is a kind of an old term for even).
The AT44 is pretty easy to regulate. With interchangeable air tubes that also have the whole valve assembly, coiuld easily make one a regulated tube and leave the other tube non-regulated.
Regaurdless of caliber wouldexpect to be able to get a short run of nice hihger power shots from the non-regulated tube over a short pressure range (pretty much what I'd want for hunting).....and a really long string of lower power regulated shots over a wide pressure range (pretty much what I'd want for playing).
Do find it esp. attractive in .177....which is my choice in playing around calibers, and where lower energy/long shot counts are a big plus.
Thank you for clearing that up, I understand what your meaning now lol. Kinda slow sometimes!
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Dropped a digit on the non-reg numbers...should be 600 rather than 500.
But the idea here is that it's all about energy in vs. energy out. Regulation uses a wider range of pressure for more shots than non-regulated's narrow range of pressure.
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Dropped a digit on the non-reg numbers...should be 600 rather than 500.
But the idea here is that it's all about energy in vs. energy out. Regulation uses a wider range of pressure for more shots than non-regulated's narrow range of pressure.
I understand the concept but am just about to receive my first chronograph so hopefully I can get my guns to shoot better than they do currently. So trying to soak up as much knowledge as I can about it! I understand I'm kinda derailing my own thread lol but I will start a new one about the flash and hopefully you and the other fine members here can help me fumble my way through the learning process.
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I like the rifle....it's nothing fancy,not really pretty, but it's been a solid performer for the last 10 years (and the newer ones are a bit nicer finished that the old ones).
I just settled on a lot of shots (non-reged) at a moderate .177 power (about 16 foot pounds) as best suited to my use. You might find more power/fewer shots more suited to your uses....or less power, more shots.
The single shot versions aren't much different in performance...are a bit more complicated internally as there is a ratching system for the simple magazines (rather than clock-spring wound plastic mags) but the basic "guts" of the AT44's remains the same.
For a guy who likes to adjusts things,,,even when they don't really need adjusting...it's a good system.
The pressurized air tube and valve are a seperate detachable unit. IF you unscrew the air tube, the dangerous part is removed WITHOUT needing to dump the gaswhen you want to dissassemble it to adjust something like the striker, striker spring tension, transfer port, etc. If you need to do something to the dangerous part (the pressurized tube and valve) thenyou do need to de-gas, but the rest of the rifle can rest safe and sound away from the work bench and just deal with the tube/valve.
Don't know what version you are looking at as being a good buy/low price.If it's one of the orgtinal short tube,NON QE versions....then it's 180cc'sand no factory LDC. I rather like those,even though I will have to buy an LDC for populated area uses,,,,it gives the easy option of LDC or bare barrel. If it is the QE version, then pretty well consider the LDC as an "always there" part. If it is the longer/larger volume air tube version,then can pretty well count on getting more shots at whatever level of power than the short tube version.
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The one I was looking at is the AT44 long, non-qe version
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For most folks, the long tube would be a plus...it's kind of like a bigger gas tank in a car...won't make it go faster, just go a bit longer on a fill up.
QE system has the blessing of being factory original and not easily transferred to some other rifle...if anyone has a problem with being quiet, they can take it up with the maker.
Can think of a lot of lower cost PCP's that would be much worse choices as a first PCP. Not a whole lot of surprises, well documented fixes if you get into trouble, and have been good serving rifles long term (like 10 years).
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Actually, I wanted a shorter rifle for hauling around the woods in my pickup. And the ones on clearance are the old models without the qe system. Eventually I will get an at44 at some point, I may not like it but I want to try one. I like the crosman guns, nothing wrong with them just want something different. The flash that I ordered isn't my favorite looking gun by a long shot , but it is supposed to be light and powerful in .25 with decent accuracy. Also my two shooting buddies have a marauder and an Armada, I have a disco and my son has a Maximus so I wanted something new lol.
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I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with that Flash ;)
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I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with that Flash ;)
Mr. RallyShark! Randy told me last night that I should read your posts and get with you about any questions, that you were the man to talk to about the flash.
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Being a Hatsan fan there is no doubt one of theses days I will get "Flashed" 8)
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Being a Hatsan fan there is no doubt one of theses days I will get "Flashed" 8)
I couldn't pass up the .25 refurbished for $205 shipped
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I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with that Flash ;)
Mr. RallyShark! Randy told me last night that I should read your posts and get with you about any questions, that you were the man to talk to about the flash.
There are few folks on here that have gone down the Flash tuning rabbit hole :D Those little guns have so much tuning potential for sure. You'll be hard pressed to find another gun that is that light weight, and capable of so much power. You'll find that Flash in .25 to be quite the little thumper, haha.
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OK..that's a change from .177's...but if hunting is on your mind, likely a good change.
Don't have a Flash....do have the same basic "guts" in a different stock (pup),so do know how they work and what to expect from the normal stocked version.
A lot more energy. Pretty typically,will like heavier .22 pellet better than standard weight pellets, put out something between 30 and 38 foot pounds per shot,but not so many good shots as it's only a 165cc's air tube.
Several video reviews out there...some are pretty even handed, some are pretty bias (I swear...some folks would only say good things even if an airgun maker accidently shipped them a cow-pie).
All in all, seems that the owners generally like them, shoot well.
3 main complaints have been:
1. stock is ugly. Well...DUH....did you order one without seeing a picture of it? On the plus side, you'll not be worried about taking it out hard-hunting and collecting scratches.
2.Mag. doesn't rest solidly immobile when in placce. MIne will rotate a bit,but it's rotating on center to the broew and it makes no difference I can detect (and I forced that rotation in testing). Some have some front to back shake...my two don't. Belive that's what the 0-ring built into the mag's clear rear face is for (it's a slack-reducer)
3. It doesn't get a lot of shots. If you are draining +30 foot pounds of energy out of an unregulated 165cc tank, long counts of good shots just are not going to happen.
All in all,for more hunting and less plinking, think it's a really good choice.
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OK..that's a change from .177's...but if hunting is on your mind, likely a good change.
Don't have a Flash....do have the same basic "guts" in a different stock (pup),so do know how they work and what to expect from the normal stocked version.
A lot more energy. Pretty typically,will like heavier .22 pellet better than standard weight pellets, put out something between 30 and 38 foot pounds per shot,but not so many good shots as it's only a 165cc's air tube.
Several video reviews out there...some are pretty even handed, some are pretty bias (I swear...some folks would only say good things even if an airgun maker accidently shipped them a cow-pie).
All in all, seems that the owners generally like them, shoot well.
3 main complaints have been:
1. stock is ugly. Well...DUH....did you order one without seeing a picture of it? On the plus side, you'll not be worried about taking it out hard-hunting and collecting scratches.
2.Mag. doesn't rest solidly immobile when in placce. MIne will rotate a bit,but it's rotating on center to the broew and it makes no difference I can detect (and I forced that rotation in testing). Some have some front to back shake...my two don't. Belive that's what the 0-ring built into the mag's clear rear face is for (it's a slack-reducer)
3. It doesn't get a lot of shots. If you are draining +30 foot pounds of energy out of an unregulated 165cc tank, long counts of good shots just are not going to happen.
All in all,for more hunting and less plinking, think it's a really good choice.
OK..that's a change from .177's...but if hunting is on your mind, likely a good change.
Don't have a Flash....do have the same basic "guts" in a different stock (pup),so do know how they work and what to expect from the normal stocked version.
A lot more energy. Pretty typically,will like heavier .22 pellet better than standard weight pellets, put out something between 30 and 38 foot pounds per shot,but not so many good shots as it's only a 165cc's air tube.
Several video reviews out there...some are pretty even handed, some are pretty bias (I swear...some folks would only say good things even if an airgun maker accidently shipped them a cow-pie).
All in all, seems that the owners generally like them, shoot well.
3 main complaints have been:
1. stock is ugly. Well...DUH....did you order one without seeing a picture of it? On the plus side, you'll not be worried about taking it out hard-hunting and collecting scratches.
2.Mag. doesn't rest solidly immobile when in placce. MIne will rotate a bit,but it's rotating on center to the broew and it makes no difference I can detect (and I forced that rotation in testing). Some have some front to back shake...my two don't. Belive that's what the 0-ring built into the mag's clear rear face is for (it's a slack-reducer)
3. It doesn't get a lot of shots. If you are draining +30 foot pounds of energy out of an unregulated 165cc tank, long counts of good shots just are not going to happen.
All in all,for more hunting and less plinking, think it's a really good choice.
I thought that the .25 may be better suited to what I am looking for at the moment as hunting season will be here soon again, after talking with you though I am going to have to have one of those AT44 eventually!
Glad to hear you like your pup, I agree with you 100% on the reviewers, honestly I don't trust any of them! Yes it is an ugly rifle, I'm probably gonna spray some camo on it so it's harder to see how ugly it is lol. From the members here though I have heard alot of good things about them and they are one of the lightest .25s that has decent power, that I have seen anyway. I figure if it's ugly enough to scratch up, accurate enough to hit that cambells soup gold badge at 50y, has decent power and is reliable...it should be a great little hunting rifle!
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Considered the .25. Don't find myself reaching for the .25's as often as I though I would but my uses aren't the same as yours.
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Considered the .25. Don't find myself reaching for the .25's as often as I though I would but my uses aren't the same as yours.
I do have a disco still for close range stuff, it just isn't very accurate at the speed it is currently shooting. I'm hoping to get that straightened out too but haven't had a chronograph. I should have one in a few days though, along with the flash sometimes this week. When I get it all I will start a new thread because I'm sure I will need help lol
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There are few folks on here that have gone down the Flash tuning rabbit hole :D Those little guns have so much tuning potential for sure. You'll be hard pressed to find another gun that is that light weight, and capable of so much power. You'll find that Flash in .25 to be quite the little thumper, haha.
i agree !!
i have the .25 flash and its a powerful night hunter with sightmark photon xt NV
doing flower bed and garden critter extermination.
it likes the 28gr ben domes better than the jsb 25's......
armadillo's fold with the ben domes 8)
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Funny you said you were going to camo it, I just did this today! I will do the scope later, and I'm not sure if I'm going to do the stock or not. I used the Mossy Oak Obsession camo shotgun wrap on it :D You can remove the wrap if you want, and it doesn't look that bad if you take your time.
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looks good !
now you need to hydro the stock ;)
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That looks awesome!!
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i see that hatsanusa is offering a wood stock version of the flash now.....
wonder if next will be a camo syn ??
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looks good !
now you need to hydro the stock ;)
I may wrap the stock, buy I don't think I'll spend the $$ on hydro dipping it. I mean, it is a Flash after all. That wrap does pretty well, especially if you use a heat gun. It conforms to curves without too much trouble. I use that gun for hunting only, which is the reason I decided to do a little camo on it. That camo blends VERY well. I set it on the ground earlier, and it just looked like an empty stock sitting there,lol!
That looks awesome!!
Thanks!
i see that hatsanusa is offering a wood stock version of the flash now.....
wonder if next will be a camo syn ??
I kinda doubt they'll offer a camo stock. It seems they only offer that kind of stuff to the European market usually for some odd reason?
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my son owns a custom cabinet shop and he is very good with detail finishing (painting) stuff.
he took his .25 flashpup and painted it all desert tan after several steps of preparing the wood & metal surfaces. it looks very nice and if you set it down and walked away from it in the woods, you might not find it...it blends perfectly.
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Nice!
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Sweet looking camo job on the flash!