GTA

Airguns by Make and Model => Vintage Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: unionrdr on June 07, 2019, 06:00:56 PM

Title: Crosman model 99
Post by: unionrdr on June 07, 2019, 06:00:56 PM
The odd Crosman I found on the auctions came in a lil while ago. A Hahn, as I've seen it called, from the company Pres of those days. A Crosman model 99 lever action repeater. Built from 1965 to 1970, it had a 14-round magazine and the hammer's half-cock position is low power, and full-cock is high power. How's that for different yet cool? I tried to dry fire it, having noticed a Co2 cartridge installed. No go. Then the lever hung loose and the plate in front of the magazine's opening never moved. Needs a clean, polish and lube with new seals at least. Should be a fun plinker and pester?
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/320x240q90/922/nefR0u.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmnefR0uj)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/320x240q90/924/HRGyS7.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poHRGyS7j)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/320x240q90/922/kPxoNi.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmkPxoNij)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/320x240q90/924/vVHbMu.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/povVHbMuj)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/320x240q90/923/y9LPb3.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pny9LPb3j)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/320x240q90/924/BjuVd6.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poBjuVd6j)
  And, after a Rem-Oil bath & rubdown-
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/tHdLxC.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmtHdLxCj)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/921/tcLDnF.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pltcLDnFj)
  And since it seems this one cocks easier than the Daisy 1894's, I might be able to whirl this one?!
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: OTmachine on June 07, 2019, 06:42:59 PM
Then we will have to start calling you Lucas. ;)
BTW,  REALLY COOL FIND!
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: Glasstomb on June 07, 2019, 08:16:23 PM
Here's a post on the 99 from back in April. Made as a replica of the Savage 99 center fire. The repeater mechanism tends to jam but they are really fun shooters.  There's two power levels. Cycling the lever cocks the hammer to 1st position for low. Pull the hammer back to second position for full. 

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=157667.msg155746336;topicseen#msg155746336 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=157667.msg155746336;topicseen#msg155746336)
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: RBQChicken on June 07, 2019, 10:19:32 PM
Very cool looking gun. Reminds me of the H&R shotguns (or Handi rifles) the way the end of the receiver is kind of narrow and then the butt stock swells outwards from it. 
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: BrushPopper on June 08, 2019, 04:16:15 PM
Congrats on a good find!
That loading gate not moving might be a prob.

Inside, there’s a long, twisted cast metal rod that actuates it when the lever is cycled.

These are known to break and don’t look to be weldable/braze able, looks like zinc alloy.

Take pics when you dismantle it, it’s kinda’ challenging to work on (like most repeaters).

I think I have an exploded view on it, if you need to ID parts.
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: unionrdr on June 08, 2019, 05:05:57 PM
I have the factory parts diagram. I have an idea or two for parts. I'm not the Airgun Tinker for nothin'! My dad and grandpa were whiz kids at that sort of thing. So we'll see. I posted the new video in this forum too. So have a look at that.
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: Glasstomb on June 08, 2019, 07:28:46 PM
My 99 leaked when I got it so I dissembled it  It's a bear to work on. Not quite as bad as the 622 but close. I had to sent the valve out to get it resealed.

Without Nick's write up on Another Airgun Blog I probably would not have attempted it.

https://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/crosman-model-99-reassembly-part-1.html (https://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/crosman-model-99-reassembly-part-1.html)

Part 3 shows the pellet cam rod and the shuttle
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: unionrdr on June 10, 2019, 06:03:13 PM
Good write up. I like those from him. Looks like another one of Crosman's hold-everything-together-while bolting-the-receiver-halves-down rifles like the 760's. Looks like fun. I wonder if the 38 valve, being virtually the same, would show any improvement.*!*- And while I'm thinking about it, has anyone figured out how to date these things?
  And I've found that this one looks nothing like the Savage 99F! More like a cross between a Marlin 39A from 1952 and a Winchester 1871 to me?
  1952 Marlin 39A
 (https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/kA1216.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnkA1216j)
  1871 Winchester saddle gun
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/apWBZO.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmapWBZOj)
  And the Savage 99F
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/m14FHr.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnm14FHrj)
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: avator on June 10, 2019, 06:16:05 PM
Good write up. I like those from him. Looks like another one of Crosman's hold-everything-together-while bolting-the-receiver-halves-down rifles like the 760's. Looks like fun. I wonder if the 38 valve, being virtually the same, would show any improvement.*!*- And while I'm thinking about it, has anyone figured out how to date these things?
Did you try flowers, dinner and a nice bottle of wine?
... just mashin' yer taters.
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: unionrdr on June 10, 2019, 06:20:08 PM
Lol. I've been married so long, I guess I forgot how?  ;)
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: avator on June 10, 2019, 06:27:20 PM
Well, you might want to bone up on that... it just might result in another airgun or two per month...  ;)
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: Glasstomb on June 10, 2019, 09:11:48 PM
Well, you might want to bone up on that... it just might result in another airgun or two per month...  ;)

Blue pills?
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: unionrdr on June 11, 2019, 12:39:54 PM
Well, places said to have parts don't. I got one commercial site left. This is gonna be tough. Gotta get it apart and take stock of what's broken or just seized or stripped.
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: avator on June 11, 2019, 04:00:27 PM
Well, places said to have parts don't. I got one commercial site left. This is gonna be tough. Gotta get it apart and take stock of what's broken or just seized or stripped.
Or maybe go on the hunt for a parts gun.
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: SteveP-52 on June 11, 2019, 11:31:17 PM
At the rate he's buying/winning guns, he's gonna need an addition to the house before much longer
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: unionrdr on June 13, 2019, 10:39:05 AM
I need a bigger room now. To much stuff on top of stuff. That's the biggest problem right now. I found a guy that says he has the parts. Said parts aren't a problem. Just gotta take it apart and see what's needed.
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: unionrdr on June 14, 2019, 03:08:30 PM
I just ordered the seal kit from bakerairguns.com this morning. With tax & pony express, it came just shy of 50 bucks. Clearing off the 2' x 4' table next to my desk to make working on the rifle(s) easier.
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: dcorvino on June 14, 2019, 03:45:46 PM
Great find !!
Thank you for posting and pictures.
Really enjoyed the history lesson on the rifle.
Would be nice if some of these vintage airguns were reproduced.
Thanks again for the great post

Dave
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: unionrdr on June 15, 2019, 11:21:28 AM
Thanks! And yeah, I thought of modding one of these model 99's to take a removeable rotary clip for the .22 pellets where that breech plate knuckles outward. Try to simplify and beef it up internally.
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: Wayne52 on June 15, 2019, 11:31:08 AM
Leonard that's a beautiful old lever gun for sure, I probably would have bid on that one if I had seen it, very cool 8)
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: unionrdr on June 16, 2019, 12:03:31 PM
Oh yeah! Very cool, but even the fella at mac1 talked at length on the phone about what a pita they are internally. I've heard they shoot hard? Like the 700 Pell Master, I hope. Both vintage Co2 .22's.
  Model 99 Co2 .22;
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/y9LPb3.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pny9LPb3j)
  Model 700 Pell Master Co2 .22;
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/921/JN7p3A.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plJN7p3Aj)
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: Glasstomb on June 16, 2019, 04:01:43 PM
Oh yeah! Very cool, but even the fella at mac1 talked at length on the phone about what a pita they are internally. I've heard they shoot hard? Like the 700 Pell Master, I hope. Both vintage Co2 .22's.

Leonard -

Definitely a pita. The valve is like nothing I'd seen before. Many parts to it. Which is why I sent it out to be resealed.

Here's what I learned from the guy that did the reseal:
The 99 valve assembly has 3 o-ring seals, 1 exhaust valve stem, valve stem spring, co2 cartridge seal , that all need to be replaced. The valve body needs to have the old factory plastic transfer seal replaced with a o ring instead. This plastic piece can be a bear to remove as it is deep inside the body of the valve assembly.

There's also a star shaped part that I asked him about:
I'm just curious as to the other valve parts, When I look into the piercing chamber part of the valve, there's a star-type thing (washer?) deep inside. It's part #86 on the schematic below. There's an o-ring behind it. Is that the part you’re referring as hard to remove? Is there a special tool to remove it?

His reply:
No. The star shaped retainer you are referring to is not the seal I was talking about. The seal I was talking about is under the co2 seal assembly after its removed. Don't pull that star retainer out!

Your 99 may not need all the parts he had to replace in mine but mine now holds forever and hits hard from second notch. Good luck w/reseal.
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: unionrdr on June 18, 2019, 08:51:24 PM
Yeah man, I was looking at the schematic and it surprised me how many parts are in that valve! I have the seal kit coming from bakerairguns.com. I also have to keep a wary eye out for broken parts. I have a source but need the exact part numbers to get them. I wanna do this one as right as possible the first time. If it shoots as hard as the 700 Pell Master, or better, I'll be happy. I like how it looks much like an old Marlin. What wad cutters have you gotten to work in it safely? I wanna try the Beeman silver bear 12.65gr.
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: Glasstomb on June 19, 2019, 07:36:05 AM
I know this is the opposite of what should feed but I've had better luck with Crosman hollow points than wadcutters. Although I did have some success with JSB jumbo match wadcutters.  Still tends to jam.  I think the issue is with the magazine spring.  Sometimes the head of the next pellet pushes into the shuttle and jams it. Thinking that the mag spring might be too strong. From second notch mine hits as hard if not harder than the 700.
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: BrushPopper on June 20, 2019, 02:06:13 AM
A 700 I used to have shot mid 400s w/medium weight pells.

My M99 will do around 515 @ full cock, but will yield way less shots (gas hog)

Half-cock gets abt 35 shots/ctg at around 430 fps (RWS domes cycle flawlessly in this one)
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: unionrdr on June 20, 2019, 02:55:09 PM
I wonder if the RWS Superdomes are the same height as the Gamo Hunter domed .22's?
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/2USqDp.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pm2USqDpj)
  Or maybe the RWS Superpoint Extra would fit?
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/924/FpBfbC.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poFpBfbCj)
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: Glasstomb on June 21, 2019, 04:44:43 PM
Been watching episodes of Chuck Connors the "Rifleman"  If we can get the 99's to feed reliably maybe mod the the lever to trip the trigger!
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: unionrdr on June 22, 2019, 03:24:02 PM
That'd be cool. Or whirl it like Rooster Cogburn!
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/921/tcLDnF.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pltcLDnFj)
  " Fill your hands, you sonofa*****"!
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/921/WhVigu.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/plWhViguj)
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: unionrdr on June 27, 2019, 11:07:25 AM
Well, after ordering some needle oilers and a tin of H&N Excite hollow points (silver bears), I got out a vintage tin of .22cal Super Pells to compare the two. The silver Bears look a hair shorter than the Super Pells, So they should cycle through?
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/HuTm7V.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmHuTm7Vj)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/924/qgreTJ.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poqgreTJj)
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: BrushPopper on June 27, 2019, 12:25:27 PM
Length of the pellet is part of the equation, but head-shape is pretty important.

The head of the pellet needs to slide easily past the skirt of the one ahead, the one being cycled inline with the bore by the swinging loading plate...

I believe that’s why round-nose designs seem to work best for me.

Points would be a poor choice, as the head will sit deep into the skirt of the pell ahead of it.

I figure that’s how the cam-rods get broken on these; by strong arming the lever to try to clear a jam.
Title: Re: Crosman model 99
Post by: unionrdr on June 28, 2019, 11:41:06 AM
I think the silver bear having a rounded head & a bit shorter will clear a bit more easily.