GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: Gman414 on May 19, 2019, 01:35:50 PM
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Hi all the Springer airgunners,
This design and/or idea is probably an engineering and harmonics question which may be answered easily. I looked five pages deep in this forum and did a search with no results. I am not an engineer!! So here goes.
!.) For hunting purposes a small compact package is preferable. I think most of us would enjoy a light sub 40" rifle!
2.) A fixed quality barrel is going to be more accurate than a break barrel.
3.) A semi bull-pup design is the most compact design stock which is truly ambidextrous and comfortable!
Why has no airgun company designed a semi-pup, underlever cocking, rear firing gas piston rifle with the transfer port pellet chamber near the rear bolt?
With an ambidextrous bolt design at the rear of the barrel and the marauder sized breech just in front of the bolt, the barrel length could be 18 - 24" to increase power and accuracy. It would use an underlever cocking design. Since the gas ram fires toward the stock a transfer port would be used. Past the transfer port location under the bolt area a spring or chamber as needed for ram deceleration. This may give the gun a firearm style kick. This area could extend into the stock to minimize recoil. As seen in most underlever rifles the pellet chamber sits down lower from the top of the gun to allow for a ten shot magazine to sit almost flush with the top. This allows for flush mount sights or optics which is preferable! With the Umarex Synergis style magazine cocking design could this not all be done?
Does this work and would it sell? Bob or any other engineers?
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It's not a very good gun but a QB89(I've got one, broke right now) fit you criteria except it's a side lever. Spring compresses from rear to front, transfer pot and swing out loading port are at the rear and the stock extends about 3-4".
I've seen on line designs for bullpup stocks for Diana 54. How about a side lever compression chamber on top of an underlever compression chamber with a common tranfer port at the rear to one barrel.
Google springer bull pups. Most have a forwar tigger with a rod running back to the actual trigger in the rear like the QB57 or B6Z.
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I have no personal interest in Bullpups, as they are illegal in Canada.... I think putting this in the Airgun Gate may get you more traffic.... I can move it if you wish....
Bob
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Gentleman,
Thanks for the replies. Bob, sorry did not know Canada outlawed bull pup too. Even though I was referring to SEMI bull pups like the stocks on the Brocock Bantam or Compotto. If you feel the thread is better on the Airgun Gate then please move it.
Thanks
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Our Canadian inspectors seem to pick and choose which they will allow into Canada . We do have some 223 and 308 powder burners in full bullpup trim ( not with removable stocks ) that are allowed . We did have the QB57 and barista here but only in sub 500fps versions .
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They would not allow the AAA Slayer into Canada because it is a Bullpup....
Bob
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I have played with a bullpup springer a little. It was fun making it but it was no better than a conventional springer, maybe not quite as good. The draw back was that all the noise from spring and piston is brought right back to the shooters ear. That killed it for me.
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When I decided to get back in to shooting airguns last year, my primary interest was to get a bull pup springer. I wanted something that handled like my 1377 with a stock attached. Alas, I didn't find anything that suited me. I wanted something that was powerful enough and accurate enough to be used for small game hunting. A side lever would be nice. A break barrel where the barrel broke to the side rather than downwardly would be even better.
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Gamo's Goliath 88 is the only break barrel bullpup I've seen. Google it for ideas. QB57 is an example of a side lever bullpup. B5-1 is not a bull pup but pretty short.
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By far would rather have a side Cocker then an under lover. With a side lever I can stay in a prone shooting position and still cock and load the rifle.
Barrel length is good though has nothing to do with accuracy, just power.
I think one of the reasons nobody's come up with one is the unpopularity of Bullpup. While some people very much enjoy them quite a few people don't.
The other issue is with the popularity of pcp's.
People are losing interest in Springer's simply because of power. They're okay with buying the extra compressors and cylinders connections. Personally, I don't care for them. When I shoot I want to take my air gun and a tin of pellets ... not any extra necessary gear. And they're just more people wanting pcps then springers.
I think there's definitely a market, just not a large one
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HI All
Thanks for the additional comments. I understand and agree the "full Bull pup" design is not the most popular or versatile platform. Being left handed and left eye dominate the bull pup design is uncomfortable and not practical for lefties. Add on the side lever cocking and now it really is a non starter. This is why I stated Semi bull pup as the Brocock designed rifles have as shown in the attached photo. This design is considerable shorter than a standard rifle and with under lever cocking the design is practical for everyone.
The PCP market is definitely very popular. With 90-95% of the PCP rifles available easily costing, more than $500+ to $650+ with air source accessories, I would hope the gas ram/springer still has room for innovation and growth at the under $400 price point. For hunters a light weight short rifle (under 40") will always be preferred as long as accuracy and multi shot are equally important.
I hope the discussion of a better hunting springer/gas ram air rifle continues and maybe the manufacturers are listening and push forward with innovation new products. Do any of you think the Semi pup, (pictured below) rear firing, gas ram, ten shot mag, with a 18" baffelled rifle is a better tool for hunting than the current gas rams rifle we currently have? :(
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Have had a QB57 and a B5.
You are going to lose a lot of energy making a springers air charge do a 180.
My QB57 (.22) did 12fpe on the nose. Enough power to hunt with and mine was actually really accurate. I do not like high sight line over bore guns.
I really liked my 2 B5s. I got them super short and accurate, then gave them away to a coworker.
If you are looking for a compact springer to hunt with, or transport easily and discreetly, a folding stock conventional layout is a better gun.
If you want a real gun with an actual purpose, get a XS5 or put a chopped B3 in an SKS folding stock.
Another member here put a QB57 in a B3 stock.
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I dunno why those Brococks are considered semi-bullpups. It's a carbine, IE: a short rifle. I recall some of the review videos claiming it to be a "semi-bullpup" and it seems the name stuck.
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I think when the action is behind the trigger, they seem to lump that into semi-bullpup. I dunno, my 2260 has the action "just" behind the action, maybe it's a semi too ? :)
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We just talked about springer bullpups on another thread, here's the link with pics:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=160470.msg155785227#msg155785227 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=160470.msg155785227#msg155785227)
Yes, I would be interested in a (high quality) springer bullpup. ;D
15 to 25FPE. The shorter the gun the better, under 30" please. Even just a conversion kit would be great. Preferrably for a Diana 54 with low recoil. 8)
Matthias