GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Artemis/SPA Airguns => Topic started by: JungleShooter on May 14, 2019, 04:41:27 PM
-
I'm excited that "The Godfather of Airguns" himself (Tom Gaylord), has decided to do a multi-part review of the Artemis PP700! ;D
He just posted part 1 this morning at the Airgun Academy site, fresh off the press:
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/05/artemis-pp700s-a-pcp-pistol-part-1/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/05/artemis-pp700s-a-pcp-pistol-part-1/)
After reading much about the .177 model, I'm eager to hear his opinion and performance figures on the .22 ;D
-
It's on my bucket list. I think this will put all of my other other pistols in retirement.
-
I see where Tom put 250 bar in it, on my airtube of my Airmax PP700S-A it is marked 22MPa which is 220 bar rather than 250 bar.
-
I see where Tom put 250 bar in it, on my airtube of my Airmax PP700S-A it is marked 22MPa which is 220 bar rather than 250 bar.
Mine is also 22mpa on the gauge before it hits the red zone.
-
He's done it again. The Godfather. ;D
A close examination of the Artemis PP700 Part 2! ;)
Here:
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/06/artemis-pp700s-a-pcp-pistol-part-2/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/06/artemis-pp700s-a-pcp-pistol-part-2/)
-
I learned long ago to not pay much attention to anything BB Pelliter/Tom Gaylord, has to say. Especially when it comes to pcp's.
When he worked at AF airguns, he was a hack of the worst order.
guns sent in for repair were sent back with nothing what so ever done to them. When questioned about the poor performance, he stated they sounded fine. When ask what the Crono numbers were, Tom stated that he could tell what the velocity was by the sound. Further that Chronos were a waste of time. Really Tom?
And his back ground is springers, He knew nothing about pcp's what so ever. But was quick to admonish anyone who found improvement.
For years he would argue with himself about his findings. Posting as BB Pellatier on the one hand, and Gaylord on the other. Not letting the public know the arguments were with himself. LOL
That is how he straddled the fence and was on both sides of the arguments. Win Win for him. Loss Loss for readers. He blew himself out of the water on a regular basis.
I imagine you know more about PCPs That he ever will.
Knife
-
I learned long ago to not pay much attention to anything BB Pelliter/Tom Gaylord, has to say. Especially when it comes to pcp's.
When he worked at AF airguns, he was a hack of the worst order.
guns sent in for repair were sent back with nothing what so ever done to them. When questioned about the poor performance, he stated they sounded fine. When ask what the Crono numbers were, Tom stated that he could tell what the velocity was by the sound. Further that Chronos were a waste of time. Really Tom?
And his back ground is springers, He knew nothing about pcp's what so ever. But was quick to admonish anyone who found improvement.
For years he would argue with himself about his findings. Posting as BB Pellatier on the one hand, and Gaylord on the other. Not letting the public know the arguments were with himself. LOL
That is how he straddled the fence and was on both sides of the arguments. Win Win for him. Loss Loss for readers. He blew himself out of the water on a regular basis.
I imagine you know more about PCPs That he ever will.
Knife
I read the PA blog regularly, but always with a grain of salt. I had no idea about the history there, Knife.
I was really disappointed when he did a "big bore review" and never mentioned the AAA Slayer. When I asked him why the Slayer was not on the list of top big bores, he said he had never heard of them, and avoids - i forget the exact term he used - "temporary" airgun manufacturers. What?
His springer reviews - and teardown/tuning instructions seem pretty good, but I have seen him do questionable things with PCP. Especially in regards to "how many good shots".
-
I learned long ago to not pay much attention to anything BB Pelliter/Tom Gaylord, has to say. Especially when it comes to pcp's.
"The God Father of Airguns" is firmly entrenched in his position and doesn't appear to be unseated for sometime given he "knows everything" ;D
The times that I have chimed in to him on that blog he mostly came off as confrontational.
-
Let's see... the PP700 was practically a revolutionary design for a pistol offering more in a compact size for a lower price than any other PCP ever made. Adjustable hammer-strike, exposed tilt-breech loading, adjustable trigger, adjustable regulator, adjustable transfer port, all in a PCP running under $220 over 3 years ago and he's JUST NOW getting to it?
I've been waxing poetic on the virtues of these PCPs since 48 hours after I ordered mine from Krale several years ago- it took less than 48 to be delivered into my hands here in VA, about 10 minutes to check over, pump-up, load and start shooting, and about 10 shots to realize this little firecracker offered for more value for the monies than anything else, period.
EDIT: just glanced at the review... UGH. Everybody on the GTA knows what this airgun is. Much like a BMW 740IL or a Porsche 911, the SPA PP700 is perfectly fine with this "lack of a name". And I just tried Chrome browser on my Chromebook and the SPA website comes up fine. >sigh< Not bashing on the guy but c'mon....
-
I appreciate an honest exchange of ideas, and where there are people there will be differences.
And often there are two sides to an issue (or three, or four...). ;)
I just hope that this thread, a mere announcement thread, does not continue to turn into a Tom-Gaylord-bashing thread.
I'm sorry if your expectations have somehow been disappointed by Tom's actions or words. We all fail and need forgiveness (my kids and wife can attest to that all too well).
However, in my short yet intense journey into airgunning I have greatly profited from Tom's articles, clear explanations, and down-to-earth friendly manner.
I hope you all have a great weekend and get to shoot some. Or tweak the MAD Pipe* some more what a thrill, Knife! :D
In another hour I get to take out an airgun novice to the range, and he already told me it'll make his day. ;D
*MAD Pipe = Mike's Airgun Dampener Pipe, cool invention, here:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=157680 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=157680)
-
I learned long ago to not pay much attention to anything BB Pelliter/Tom Gaylord, has to say. Especially when it comes to pcp's.
When he worked at AF airguns, he was a hack of the worst order.
guns sent in for repair were sent back with nothing what so ever done to them. When questioned about the poor performance, he stated they sounded fine. When ask what the Crono numbers were, Tom stated that he could tell what the velocity was by the sound. Further that Chronos were a waste of time. Really Tom?
And his back ground is springers, He knew nothing about pcp's what so ever. But was quick to admonish anyone who found improvement.
For years he would argue with himself about his findings. Posting as BB Pellatier on the one hand, and Gaylord on the other. Not letting the public know the arguments were with himself. LOL
That is how he straddled the fence and was on both sides of the arguments. Win Win for him. Loss Loss for readers. He blew himself out of the water on a regular basis.
I imagine you know more about PCPs That he ever will.
Knife
Bingo... Not sure if anyone remembers his 'Ruining your Condor' article that gathered a lot of negative responses from the old TOG from way back when. I sent back my Condor twice and twice, he returned it to me saying nothing was wrong with it. He stated to me (and later in print) that he could hear it was shooting properly by the sound of the muzzle blast and had no need to chrony it. Of course when we all blasted back in the comments, they were all removed.
So yes... I read his stuff for entertainment value on occasion, but all of it is taken with a grain of salt.
-
Artemis PP700 Review Part 3! ;)
Right here:
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/07/artemis-pp700s-a-pcp-pistol-part-3/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/07/artemis-pp700s-a-pcp-pistol-part-3/)
-
I learned long ago to not pay much attention to anything BB Pelliter/Tom Gaylord, has to say. Especially when it comes to pcp's.
When he worked at AF airguns, he was a hack of the worst order.
guns sent in for repair were sent back with nothing what so ever done to them. When questioned about the poor performance, he stated they sounded fine. When ask what the Crono numbers were, Tom stated that he could tell what the velocity was by the sound. Further that Chronos were a waste of time. Really Tom?
And his back ground is springers, He knew nothing about pcp's what so ever. But was quick to admonish anyone who found improvement.
For years he would argue with himself about his findings. Posting as BB Pellatier on the one hand, and Gaylord on the other. Not letting the public know the arguments were with himself. LOL
That is how he straddled the fence and was on both sides of the arguments. Win Win for him. Loss Loss for readers. He blew himself out of the water on a regular basis.
I imagine you know more about PCPs That he ever will.
Knife
Bingo... Not sure if anyone remembers his 'Ruining your Condor' article that gathered a lot of negative responses from the old TOG from way back when. I sent back my Condor twice and twice, he returned it to me saying nothing was wrong with it. He stated to me (and later in print) that he could hear it was shooting properly by the sound of the muzzle blast and had no need to chrony it. Of course when we all blasted back in the comments, they were all removed.
So yes... I read his stuff for entertainment value on occasion, but all of it is taken with a grain of salt.
I remember well Tom. It was a HUGE fiasco of Gaylords own making. ::)
Yes I agree there are tow sides to ever argument, and as the poster stated, sometimes 4. LOL, Gaylord was fantastic in taking all sides at once. Lol
I've leaned as you have to Never Trust a thing the man has to say regarding PCP's. ven if he occasionally gets something right in spite of himself.
Yes he has an easy, friendly style in print. In person, arrogant, and willfully ignorant. Proudly so.
-
Michael Tom G probably knows a heck of a lot about the history of airguns but there's many PCPer's on this forum I'm sure that have much more knowledge (hands on) than Tom probably every will about pcp airguns.
-
True that Wayne.
I saw severa odd things in the report. One, the slow reg. When that is the case, there is too much grease in the reg. A simple cleaning and re-lubed wtih silicone oil will cure the slow fill rate. Mine is faster than I can load it. I ahve not gone in to re lube it yet.
The low power. They are mostly set below the UK limit when shipped. Mine came from Wes Bob In Canada, and he told me it would ship below the Canadian required power point. Simply going in and upping the hammer strike energy resulted in an increase in fpe from that as shipped 6 fpe to 18 fpe. Quite the increase. ;)
Once the fpe was upped, it printed dead on in the vertical plain. Very accurate, even with those lackluster .22 Crosman hp's that shoot terrible in every other .22 ag I own. they are stellar in the SA 700. Woo-Hoo, as the are dead cheap. Can't cast for than little.
it does indeed have the dovetail rail all the way back to just shy fo the rear sight. No problem installing another sight, or scope what so ever.
The rear sight is dovetailed into the receiver. So again, no issue installing an adjustable rear sight.
I have been shooting it with both open sights and with the Halo offering that Wes Bob sent with the pistol. Man, this thing shoots! At 18 yards, with the Halo and crosman hp's it is one holing. Can't ask for more than that! 8)
There are two trigger adjustments. One in the trigger guard, and one under the grip. Easy adjustment. I have polished all contact surfaces and applied a mix of Molly and Lithium. Man, this trigger is SWEET! both crisp and smooth. Very predictable. Right at 1 lb now. (Man, I need a trigger pull scale).
Well, time to go. It's 2:50 AM, Time to go kill some Scorpions. ;D
Knife/Mike
-
I bought my PP700SA .22 from Mike @ Mrodair when it was still on the slow boat. Mike was the first to have this gun for sale here in North America (importers brand). Out of the box the hammer was turned up too high and the regulator was set too low. After I made those adjustments it was and still is a 16-17fpe(depending on pellet) pistol and very accurate. I really need to start using it more often because it's a very nice gun and I've pretty much used it for hunting only. The way the regulator is in these it's ideal for the .22's that are tuned like mine is, they work really good for being used like that. I have a cheapo pistol scope on mine but it works and holds good. I only had it out 1 time last year and did get a nice red squirrel with it that day on the state land.
From what I've seen the regulator is worthless if you're after targets with a .177 and wanting a good shot count from the gun. There's a lot of people that have cured that problem with modifications but to be honest I've never even had mine apart.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4392/36611375781_50aa69bb20_b.jpg)
-
Wayne, what ldc is that, and did it require an adapter. I think I'm making a little too much noise for early morning here.
-
Who else besides Canada Shooting Supply carries the PP700S in the .22 version. Everywhere I look they're out of stock or only have the .177.
Also, has anyone gotten the carbine stock for theirs? I would also like to get an LDC if/when I buy one.
-
Not to start an argument, but I've found Tom's blog articles to be very helpful even on blogs about guns I have no interest in. I met Tom several times, even sold him a Crosman 600 and received some helpful information when I asked him questions. On one airgun I offered to sell him, he told me my asking price was too low and advised me to ask a certain amount more. I then sold the HW35 for his suggested price and sold the gun to another person.
My dealings with Tom have been different than some of those above. To each his own opinion. I'm not bashing anyone for having his own opinion.
-
If looking for one https://airgunarcheryfun.ca/
WesBob is a member here also and gets nothing but good reviews , including myself buying scopes to pistols and just about everything in between.
-
Who else besides Canada Shooting Supply carries the PP700S in the .22 version. Everywhere I look they're out of stock or only have the .177.
Also, has anyone gotten the carbine stock for theirs? I would also like to get an LDC if/when I buy one.
Check out Krale... thats where I got my pistol and folding stock. It is a dandy little rig for me as a mini carbine.
-
Thanks Denis & Luis, but both Airgun Archery & Krale are out of the .22 version. Those were the first places I checked.
Also, is there a difference between the Canadian version vs the ones sold in the States & Krale?
-
Wayne, what ldc is that, and did it require an adapter. I think I'm making a little too much noise for early morning here.
Michael that is a good LDC but I've got an even newer nicer one on it now that's got a carbon fiber tube on it, I'll be posting a picture of it soon because I just got done doing a chrony test and close target test because I'm definitely going to try shooting this more than I did in 2018, it's still doing about the same power now as it was over 2 years ago averaging 17.5pfe on regulated shots.
-
Here's an up to date picture and a little testing of my PP700SA.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48256732041_f4b13163a3_b.jpg)
First time I've put my 19.6 grainers through this gun too, I'm happy but I'll re sight it in at 20 yards for these now.
-
Is there any difference between the Canadian version vs USA version? 🇺🇸
-
Here's an up to date picture and a little testing of my PP700SA.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48256732041_f4b13163a3_b.jpg)
First time I've put my 19.6 grainers through this gun too, I'm happy but I'll re sight it in at 20 yards for these now.
Wayne, I'm beginning to suspect that you, sir, are an excellent marksman!
Going outside to practice some more; but no use posting my results any time soon! ;D
Archie
-
Here's an up to date picture and a little testing of my PP700SA.
First time I've put my 19.6 grainers through this gun too, I'm happy but I'll re sight it in at 20 yards for these now.
Wayne, I'm beginning to suspect that you, sir, are an excellent marksman!
Going outside to practice some more; but no use posting my results any time soon! ;D
Archie
I did qualify as an expert in the Army for the M16 but that was a very long time ago, heck when I was a kid my younger brother and I use to light the Ohio Blue Tip match's for fun with our airguns but I sure that heck ain't as steady now as I was back then. I was resting to do the five shots wanting to find out how the accuracy of the pellets was going to be, it's definitely not an off hand shot by no means. . . . I wish it was ;)
-
We have a few "experts" here on the GTA that also struggle to make heads or tails of the Condors. I guess you have to have a filter to extract to actual knowledge and filter the fluff. Knowing what the AirForce guns are capable of, and knowing what the PP700 is capable of, I guess anybody selling them short hasn't done the leg work to know for sure. These guys are out there to sell product (often the competitors product) so I prefer to take it ALL with a grain of salt. The PP700 is a gem for the price, those that own them will surely agree.
-
Artemis PP700 Review Part 4! :)
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/09/artemis-pp700s-a-pcp-pistol-part-4/
(https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/09/artemis-pp700s-a-pcp-pistol-part-4/)
-
I see they're still saying it's a 250bar fill gun and it's not, it's a 220bar fill gun.
-
Oddly enough Wayne, the 18 gr. JSB's are the only pellet I have that doesn't shoot well our of it. Now that's different!
The Cast NOE pellets, and the .223 bullets sized to .216 are both excellent in it.
I've posted these before, but it shoots too nice to not do it again.
Bullets at 20 yards, Green target, 30 cardboard target, and 80 yards on white steel ram. Two touching and one just below with the NOE slugs using an ADE Reflex Green Dot sight. The 30 yard target is two shots, sight adjust, and 5 more on target. Dead on! Rested of course. I'm old ya know. LOL
Man, this thing is a shooter! Love the ADE Reflex sight. Scorpion count is over 1,6oo now. 8) I've backed off on them for now. Walked up one too many Texas Diamondbacks.
The picatinny rail on the bottom of the airtube is for the black light for the scorpion hunting. JB Weld is holding it on just fine for months now. ;D
Sure wish they would sell us some of these barrels. One of the most accurate barrels, shooting a larger selection of both pellets and slugs that I have ever tested.
MIke
-
Very nice shooting Michael!
Now, can anyone tell me where can you buy one of these .22 pistols? Seems everyone is out of them.
-
Gentlemen
I'd like to buy a PP700S-A in 22 caliber.
So far the only vendors I can find with the 22 in stock are in Canada & Spain.
Both will ship to the US and cost with shipping is comparable
I know Canada has FPS (and FT/Lb?) limits and believe Europe does also
Does it make a difference where I buy from?
Can the pistol be easily modified to bring it back up to its full potential?
Are Canadian & Euro guns manufactured/altered in such a way that mods are locked out?
Ed
-
Krale has the PP700S-A in stock and they come full power already. Also Canada Shooting Supply sells just the 22cal barrel. (KnifeMaker)
-
Don't hesitate to order from Aceros or Mundilar.
I've been extolling the virtues of these for 3 years- including just how darn not-pellet-picky. I know when I break mine out, shortly thereafter there's a dearth of squirrels. Mine's "only" a .177 but it has taken squirrel at 40+ yards now using CP Domes (brown-box). I wouldn't focus on just .22- Athis is a small, lightweight, regulated PCP. I'm not saying it can't shine as a .22, but I feel the greatest virtues are more profound in .177.
This pistol is just like the UK 12 FPE springers- you find any of the right pellets (only 14 are excellent in mine), get the right scope, and you can connect from a good little ways out.
-
(only 14 are excellent in mine)
;D
I regret selling my PP700SA. I had mine in .177 shooting at about 12 FPE and it was the most fun I have had in awhile. It shoot well with everything I put in it. I am also on the prowl for another.
-
Don't hesitate to order from Aceros or Mundilar.
I've been extolling the virtues of these for 3 years- including just how darn not-pellet-picky. I know when I break mine out, shortly thereafter there's a dearth of squirrels. Mine's "only" a .177 but it has taken squirrel at 40+ yards now using CP Domes (brown-box). I wouldn't focus on just .22- Athis is a small, lightweight, regulated PCP. I'm not saying it can't shine as a .22, but I feel the greatest virtues are more profound in .177.
This pistol is just like the UK 12 FPE springers- you find any of the right pellets (only 14 are excellent in mine), get the right scope, and you can connect from a good little ways out.
Krale has the PP700S-A in stock and they come full power already. Also Canada Shooting Supply sells just the 22cal barrel. (KnifeMaker)
Thanks, anti-squirrel for the Aceros recommendation.
I had already been to their website so your words reinforce the prospect.
They sell the ONIX version
Thanks too, Backyard Shootr.
Krale does indeed also have the pistol
They sell the Artemis version,
Do either of you (or other readers) know what differences there are be between Kral's Artemis PP700S-A and the ONIX from Aceros?
Ed
-
Don't hesitate to order from Aceros or Mundilar.
I've been extolling the virtues of these for 3 years- including just how darn not-pellet-picky. I know when I break mine out, shortly thereafter there's a dearth of squirrels. Mine's "only" a .177 but it has taken squirrel at 40+ yards now using CP Domes (brown-box). I wouldn't focus on just .22- Athis is a small, lightweight, regulated PCP. I'm not saying it can't shine as a .22, but I feel the greatest virtues are more profound in .177.
This pistol is just like the UK 12 FPE springers- you find any of the right pellets (only 14 are excellent in mine), get the right scope, and you can connect from a good little ways out.
Krale has the PP700S-A in stock and they come full power already. Also Canada Shooting Supply sells just the 22cal barrel. (KnifeMaker)
Thanks, anti-squirrel for the Aceros recommendation.
I had already been to their website so your words reinforce the prospect.
They sell the ONIX version
Thanks too, Backyard Shootr.
Krale does indeed also have the pistol
They sell the Artemis version,
Do either of you (or other readers) know what differences there are be between Kral's Artemis PP700S-A and the ONIX from Aceros?
Ed
Don't hesitate to order from Aceros or Mundilar.
I've been extolling the virtues of these for 3 years- including just how darn not-pellet-picky. I know when I break mine out, shortly thereafter there's a dearth of squirrels. Mine's "only" a .177 but it has taken squirrel at 40+ yards now using CP Domes (brown-box). I wouldn't focus on just .22- Athis is a small, lightweight, regulated PCP. I'm not saying it can't shine as a .22, but I feel the greatest virtues are more profound in .177.
This pistol is just like the UK 12 FPE springers- you find any of the right pellets (only 14 are excellent in mine), get the right scope, and you can connect from a good little ways out.
Krale has the PP700S-A in stock and they come full power already. Also Canada Shooting Supply sells just the 22cal barrel. (KnifeMaker)
Thanks, anti-squirrel for the Aceros recommendation.
I had already been to their website so your words reinforce the prospect.
They sell the ONIX version
Thanks too, Backyard Shootr.
Krale does indeed also have the pistol
They sell the Artemis version,
Do either of you (or other readers) know what differences there are be between Kral's Artemis PP700S-A and the ONIX from Aceros?
Ed
There both the same gun just different names.
-
Kind of wish you didn't pick "godfather"...feels like if I disagree, I'll "sleep with the fishes".
-
Not needing another bbl for the 00, but would like to have a few spare barrels here to play with full length. (Rifle). But SPA will not sell barrels to the US. Not even to customers with bad barrels from them.
-
The Stormrider (PR900W / CR600W) barrels are available through Pyramyd Air for $35.
-
Here is the final piece of the Artemis PP700S-A review. 😄
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/10/artemis-pp700s-a-pcp-pistol-part-5/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2019/10/artemis-pp700s-a-pcp-pistol-part-5/)
-
Tom may know his stuff to some extent, but we have a thread nearly 90 pages long with mostly praise for this pistol
Dunno, but after seeing how bad his groups are, I think either he's been doing intravenous caffeine or he's shooting using just his feet. I can shoot nickel-sized groups or better with literally every pellet I own in .177 except Piranhas and Destroyers. Four pellets are single-hole, 14 are dime-sized groups.
>sigh<
Maybe he got a bad example?
-
I can shoot nickel-sized groups or better with literally every pellet I own in .177 except Piranhas and Destroyers.Four pellets are single-hole, 14 are dime-sized groups.Maybe he got a bad example?
Peter,
I was a bit surprised, too. 🤔
What would you say is the range at which to expect the nickel- and dime-sized groups? (that's rested, with scope, right?)
Matthias
-
I'm not saying it can't shine as a .22, but I feel the greatest virtues are more profound in .177.
Peter,
your comments are often very helpful.
Maybe you can enlighten me about the caliber.
My pistol came in .22, but I was able to secure a couple of barrels from WesBob, .177 and .22, as they were so dang cheap.
So, I'm kind of at the crossroads. What are the advantages of .177 over .22 for the PP700?
How do I do the conversion from .22 to .177?
🔶 My shooting would be pesting, anything from 5 to 40y, usually with some support/rest.
Scope 3-12x44Foldable stock (when I get to it)DonnyFL Sumo
Matthias
-
Tom may know his stuff to some extent,
funny.
-
Does Tom Gaylord post on any AG forums similar to GTA?
-
Not for long!
I have no idea why .177 would trump the .22 in the pp700. Mine will print one hole at 30 yards even with the lowly Crosman wally world .22's.
Check out these targets. 1,000 scorpions killed for last summer all night hunting with black light attached to the pistol. Only had it for part of the summer. Rest were shot with a Smith & Wesson 79 co2 pistol.
I will include a long range target here. The Ram is Between 75 and 80 yards. two touching, one to the left. Shot using a reflex site with huge holdover.
It shoots cast slugs at 29 gr, .216 dia. just as well.
-
Matthias, I've stuck only with my stock/factory .177 barrel. It shoots like Knife's.
I usually had a cheap 3-9x32 Optima scope, but have tried some better glass, too. No matter how good the glass was, gun kept up with the glass and outshot my ability. The groups were very consistent and SMALL. Beeman Silver Arrows are amazingly the most accurate pellet in mine. Baffling since they're pointed. I've taken shots at tree-rats at just shy of 40 yards- 1 dot holdover at 9x @ ~ 14 FPE and put the pellet directly where I aimed- the eyesocket. Mine also shoot exemplary with a bunch of other pelts, but like all SPA guns, it really fovors heavier pellets. JSB Ultra Shocks, Skenco Ultrashocks, Skenco Newboys, Coal Fenix domes, CPUP of course, JSB Exact Heavies. Sniper Mags are especially good and I suspect th most accurate once I go past 40 yards, just never shot my PP700 over that except 5 shots with the Sniper Mags at measured 45 yards- at a tennis ball. Every shot a hit. At 30 yards I expect a good pistol shooter to shoot nickel-sized groups. Quarter at most. I can shoot dime-sized groups with 3 pellets at 30 consistently (Sniper Mags, JSB Exact Heavies and Beeman Silver Arrows- the Ultra Shocks destabilize sadly. Maybe slow 'em down?) but I've stuffed A LOT of pellets into the breech. Over 18k. And I built up some arm muscle from all this handpumping :)
SPA cuts good rifling. As long as the crown and last inch or so of the barrel are damage-free, I guarantee those barrels will likely shoot as good as you're capable of. Incidentally, I ordered the PP750 repeater in .22. Hopefully it has a similar barrel- though I may try to tune for heavyweight wadcutters- in particular the H&Ns.
Advantages of .177 versus .22 in this tiny platform? More speed. I suspect the .22 is more efficient; tends to be that way and that's fine. Main reason I opted for .177 when I bought mine over 3 years ago? Krale was out of .22 and I just so happened to have 18 different .177 pellets on hand. It was almost comical while testing- several pellets shot such tight groups I thought I was missing the 8x8 target entirely. Personally, I prefer .22 because they are physically easier to handle. Um, otherwise? You usually get more pellets for the same money in .177 versus .22. That combination you describe should be potent for vermin (rats and mice, bunnies). For squirrel-sized critters I'd crank up the reg and HST but you'll lose some accuracy on some pellets. Prolly gain it on others, though :) Sniper Mags seem to like moving about 800-880 FPS. I get good accuracy at a sedate 640 but I know they can do better moving faster.
-
Where can you buy these in the United States?
-
Peter and Knife, thanks for all your input!! 😊
🔶Wow, lot's of pellet choices
I just need to find some kind of machine shop that will put a screw into my barrel so it won't be turning when I screw/unscrew the silencer.... Otherwise my POI changes by 4" at 10y.... :o Catastrophic!
🔶Thanks for your very helpful explanation on .177 vs. .22 I think I will stay with .22.
🔶I'll also look at wadcutters and hollow points.
Unfortunately, there are very few light HP's, and there are hardly any wadcutters in .22 (it's just not the 10m target caliber...).
🔶Question: For pigeon heart/lung shots, out to what range would you recommend wadcutters and what range for head shots?
Jim,
to buy the PP700 people have been ordering it from:
(1) Canada, fromWesBob, a really great guy, here on GTA, athttps://airgunarcheryfun.ca/
He might even have a replacement barrel or two, even for a caliber swap. 😊 Email him!
(2) Krale (Holland). They do international shipping at a jawdropping speed.
However, if you can hold on to your horses, the PP750 is coming out in a couple of months multishot!, with integrated telescoping stock. Might be worth the wait, I hear it isn't that much more expensive than the PP700. 😊
Wes is the guy to fix you up with one get on his order list asap.
Matthias
-
Mine in .22 has killed many, many rats. On my home range I can consistently hit cans out to 70 yards. It is a dandy, mine is shooting 14.3 Crosman Premiers at an average of 670 FPS for 14 FPE. Im going to attempt to slow it down to 500 FPS for about 8 FPE. So that I can use it for roosting sparrows.
-
Where can you buy these in the United States?
[/quote
Aceros