GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: Lefusil on May 01, 2019, 10:15:21 PM
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I bought a tin of JSB 15.89 grain pellets from a non-airgun knowledgeable source. They didn't tape the canister shut, just put it in a plastic bag, then a box. Of course during shipping the tin opened and all the pellets had a good chance to bang into each other. A bunch have dented skirts. Needless to say I have learned my lesson and won't buy pellets from them again.
Is it possible to reform dented pellet skirts? What's the method?
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You could try something conical like a sharpened wooden pencil. The angle is probably too sharp to allow it into the pellet. Cut off the end until you can just fit it into the tapered end of the pellet. It might work. Next time buy pellets from Pyramyd - you get four tins for the price of three. Honestly, you would probably have done better even at Walmart.
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Try a golf tee. You'll have to change the angle of the pin, but it's been done before.
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I fixed a bunch with an old beeman pell seat tool [apparently long discontinued] I bought a while back , but remember reading somewhere about using instead those old/retro hard plastic round top 'stir sticks' used to mix drinks or iced tea. apparently they are still sold in sets but maybe someone you know may have one laying around. 8)
edit: remember I had a pic.
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You could try something conical like a sharpened wooden pencil. The angle is probably too sharp to allow it into the pellet. Cut off the end until you can just fit it into the tapered end of the pellet. It might work. Next time buy pellets from Pyramyd - you get four tins for the price of three. Honestly, you would probably have done better even at Walmart.
Nope on ordering pellets from Walmart. I ordered three tins from Walmart last week: Vortex Supreme, H&N Field Target Trophy, and H&N Crow Magnums. I figured they would ship them together tightly bundled with bubble wrap. Nope...they shipped them separately. First to come the tin of CMs (damaged) I emailed them they said to keep them they would send another tin no charge. Next to arrive the FTT, (damaged) but I only found a few with dented skirts so I didn't complain, Finally the VS came. (Damaged is not a strong enough word to describe how they arrived) partly due to poor packaging but mainly FedEx must accidentally dropped my package a couple of thousand times. I emailed them, they sent a label and I returned them. I emailed them that I was sorry I ever even considered using Walmart.
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It's not perfect, but if I'm just plinking with one of my springers, especially with JSB's because they are rather soft, and I come across one with dented skirt I just reform it over the dome of another pellet. You don't hurt the second pellet and it usually does a pretty good job.
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Why not just a light tap with the proper size ball bearing?
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This question comes up from time to time so I saved the picture.
I use this gizmo.
You probably have one laying around.
But....it probably doesn’t matter.
Just shoot them..
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So, how would one repair the exterior of a pellet skirt? Or does pushing the pellet into the breech kinda sorta does that well enough anyway?
I've long been concerned about knicks on the exterior rim of pellet skirts particularly with the larger calibers I shoot such as .25cal.
Or perhaps its a non issue?
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Here ya go .... https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146632.msg1491748#msg1491748 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146632.msg1491748#msg1491748)
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Here ya go .... https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146632.msg1491748#msg1491748 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=146632.msg1491748#msg1491748)
This thread makes me wish I had a lathe and still had the skill to use it. I know a guy with a 3D printer though, might be able to make me a tool for this.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
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RAW makes these pellet seat tool less than 20 bucks. I use the ball end to reshape bent skirts.
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I've used one of these and it works great. I usually save up pellets with dented skirts until I get about half a tin and work on them while watching tv
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Hello Rico, are this the 3.5 or the 6.35 mm earphoneplugs?
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Next time buy pellets from Pyramyd - you get four tins for the price of three. Honestly, you would probably have done better even at Walmart.
I actually ordered three tins from them yesterday, and noticed in the shipping notification they're sending me a fourth no charge. 8)
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jnjhess, it's the latter. Quarter inch. I use a different kind of audio plug that's maybe a hair bigger and has a ball end, like in ranchibi's picture. I do all my .22 pellets with it, even if they don't particularly look damaged (and it will probably be a good size for .25 also, when I get a .25 AG).
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A fid works well.
(I'm ex-Navy, so that explains the terminology).
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Allright, thanks for clearing that up, 1/4 inch, that's about 6.35 mm, so its the big one. Do you think that will fit too for .177 cal pellets. Just want to clear that up, or would it be better to get 3.5 mm or 1/8 inch earphone-microphone-audio plug for the .177.
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How many pellets is a man willing to check skirts with?
This is why damaged pellets should be thrown away and Not Shot in your gun as the manufacturer usually says in all the warnings.
Secondly, if it is an enjoyable pass time for someone to spend time to check skirts that person should be paid!
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How many pellets is a man willing to check skirts with?
I give them all the same treatment with the helicopter headset plug as I load them. It's quick. I don't really check them, since I figure there could be something not so visible that could keep any given pellet from being as accurate as it could be; I just press each one onto the plug and give it a little turn, and load it. If it wasn't round before, well, it is now.
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Are you reforming pellets that fit in the gun?
I had some that were damaged at the skirt but still able to be loaded. I loaded them up and shot them and they were accurate. It may matter what velocity you are shooting and the composition of the lead but they may just obturate to the bore the same as using your 1/4 headphone cord, 8 track tape or other obsoleted device that some people won't ID for fear of ridicule (I laugh at wireless ear buds because I'd lose them). I still use headphones with earphones bigger than dougnuts and coiled cords that don't break. I digress.
Think about the pressure at the pellet and there is probably more force than forming with your guitar connector.
Maybe someone needs to sell a smooth bore 22 that you can normalize damaged pellets by shooting them in water or a big roll of cotton. That would at least be fun.
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Are you reforming pellets that fit in the gun?
I had some that were damaged at the skirt but still able to be loaded. I loaded them up and shot them and they were accurate. It may matter what velocity you are shooting and the composition of the lead but they may just obturate to the bore the same as using your 1/4 headphone cord, 8 track tape or other obsoleted device that some people won't ID for fear of ridicule (I laugh at wireless ear buds because I'd lose them). I still use headphones with earphones bigger than dougnuts and coiled cords that don't break. I digress.
Think about the pressure at the pellet and there is probably more force than forming with your guitar connector.
Maybe someone needs to sell a smooth bore 22 that you can normalize damaged pellets by shooting them in water or a big roll of cotton. That would at least be fun.
So I guess the question becomes how deformed a skirt can the gun’s puff of air correct? Some of the dinged ones I have are pretty bad.
oh BTW apparently headphones with big earphones are now called “cans” and they are cool again. Wait long enough and everything comes back in style. ;)
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This warning is for the birds literally and figuratively.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/MGalleryItem.php?id=6380)
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Big Bird those are my pellets and medication too!
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You guys are funny! ;D
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Big Bird those are my pellets and medication too!
You guys are funny! ;D
No, that's actually true.
Welcome to our world.... the GTA!! :o
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I wouldn’t bother unless you were so strapped for cash or pellets. I’d chuck the really bad ones and use the mediocre ones and let the air blow up and out the skirts. Use them for plinking. Time value of money says you are prolly better off just tossing the bad ones.
If you must, some tools of the trade:
Old car phone charger
1/4 inch headphone jack
Uses pen refill
Or the rare Pell Seat
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If you REALLY want to go all in. Bust out the pellet sizing dies
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If you REALLY want to go all in. Bust out the pellet sizing dies
Yeah, next time I get a flyer, I will be thinking "should have gotten that sizing die".
You all are shameless enablers ;)
I did root around my junk drawer and found some 1/4" stereo jacks. Going to see if it's the pellets or me causing the occasional flyer (likely it's me).
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Hello Rico, are this the 3.5 or the 6.35 mm earphoneplugs?
I use the 1/4"
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If I were better at CAD I would have designed and 3D printed skirt repair dies. But I'm not that good at that stuff... I just have a 3D printer and can do some basic stuff or if you send me a file I can print it for you at a reasonable cost.
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I made a 12-second video of pressing the plug into the back of the pellets, to attach here, but the forum software said the file size was too great, so I'll just put in a still picture. Basically it was taking me three seconds to treat each pellet. And again, I don't "inspect" them to decide whether to give them the treatment. I just do it to all of them. If three seconds is too long for ya, then so is loading the gun.
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I made a 12-second video of pressing the plug into the back of the pellets, to attach here, but the forum software said the file size was too great, so I'll just put in a still picture. Basically it was taking me three seconds to treat each pellet. And again, I don't "inspect" them to decide whether to give them the treatment. I just do it to all of them. If three seconds is too long for ya, then so is loading the gun.
Yeah I'm going to try the stereo jack at some point. It will be interesting to see if repaired vs. dented makes a noticeable improvement in group size.
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I made a 12-second video of pressing the plug into the back of the pellets, to attach here, but the forum software said the file size was too great, so I'll just put in a still picture. Basically it was taking me three seconds to treat each pellet. And again, I don't "inspect" them to decide whether to give them the treatment. I just do it to all of them. If three seconds is too long for ya, then so is loading the gun.
Yeah I'm going to try the stereo jack at some point. It will be interesting to see if repaired vs. dented makes a noticeable improvement in group size.
Interested... so you are going to do some testing and give us some hard and fast data?
As a suggestion Lefusil, so as not to hijack this thread, the scientist in me thinks we all need to do this as an experiment.
Damaged/unfixed vs damaged/fixed vs control (undamaged/non-normalized)?
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Interested... so you are going to do some testing and give us some hard and fast data?
As a suggestion Lefusil, so as not to hijack this thread, the scientist in me thinks we all need to do this as an experiment.
Damaged/unfixed vs damaged/fixed vs control (undamaged/non-normalized)?
Good idea! I will try it out at 35 yards (and maybe 50 too). Do you think 10 shots each is enough? Or would three groups of five shots work better?
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In all seriousness, if you read the post from the link posted on the '"custom tool" that TRUES the skirt and does not flair it, you may have caught the verbiage on how a pellets skirt collapses when forced into a barrel ???
UNIFORMITY / CONCENTRICITY so pellet yields to the smaller bore becomes very important for ultimate accuracy.
As too does it make a difference question ? .... 6 time AAFTA Rifle / Pistol, Nationals & Gran Prix Championships ALL WERE WON USING PELLETS prepped and corrected with a fitted skirt tool as shown. ( Every pellet shot in competition gets trued )
Cleaning up damaged plinking pellets, tin damage etc ... a phono jack works as well as any. Wish to get a bit more serious about accuracy 8)
For the record ... YES it makes a difference !
Scott S
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I take it you know the champion :P
Sorry Scott, looking for quantifiable results and I didn't find them searching the forum... wild hair up there...
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I take it you know the champion :P
Sorry Scott, looking for quantifiable results and I didn't find them searching the forum... wild hair up there...
LOL ... it's all good. I start head shaking when a post that has great potential for folks to learn something kind of gets sideways. Or perhaps I'm too anal in not just letting it go ???
last statement being ... seldom do pellets get delivered as round & true at the skirt as they come out of the swage die during there manufacture ... all i got.
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eBay buy.
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2zqv637.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/8wgohu.jpg)
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I like the pellet sizer. Going to keep an eye peeled for one of those.
Ran out of time this evening to shoot anything, but here are some pics of the pellets. All are JSB 15.89 grain.
The damaged ones are a random sampling. The repaired were done with a stereo jack, which seems to work reasonably well if they're not too far gone. The ones labeled "ok" were shipped from Pyramyd Air.
Hopefully I can get some time this week to do a shooting comparison.
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Ok. Here's some quantitative data on repairing pellets. Five shot groups, from a Hatsan AT44-10 (magazine fed).
The first table below is precision. It is the average radial distance of all the impacts from the POI. Analogous to group size (but a little more work to obtain). The POI is the average impact point of all the shots.
The second table is accuracy or how close the average POI is to the POA. This is think is mostly me and how well the scope is zeroed, and how well I'm holding on target.
My thoughts on this:
1. Need more data - I don't think five shots is not really enough to be sure of the average POI.
2. looks like "repairing" the skirts did improve the performance of the damaged pellets
3. Seems "repairing" the skirts might degrade an already ok pellet.
4. I should use the good tin, as is.
EDIT: Forgot to mention the range is 35 yards, and the pellets we're all 0.22 cal, 16 grain JSB.
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Saw this on ebay,
https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Original-TTS-Pellet-Sizers-for-all-air-rifle-pellets-/132043609188?redirect=mobile (https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Original-TTS-Pellet-Sizers-for-all-air-rifle-pellets-/132043609188?redirect=mobile)
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Casting my own if I dent a skirt it goes back in the pot to cast another :D I won't be buying any .22's or bigger anymore because I enjoy casting my own. If I had a .177 mold I'd be doing the same thing but there's none available that are worth a darned.
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Nope on ordering pellets from Walmart. I ordered three tins from Walmart last week: Vortex Supreme, H&N Field Target Trophy, and H&N Crow Magnums. I figured they would ship them together tightly bundled with bubble wrap. Nope...they shipped them separately. First to come the tin of CMs (damaged) I emailed them they said to keep them they would send another tin no charge. Next to arrive the FTT, (damaged) but I only found a few with dented skirts so I didn't complain, Finally the VS came. (Damaged is not a strong enough word to describe how they arrived) partly due to poor packaging but mainly FedEx must accidentally dropped my package a couple of thousand times. I emailed them, they sent a label and I returned them. I emailed them that I was sorry I ever even considered using Walmart.
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I've ordered pellets from Wal Mart only to notice they were actually shipped by Pyramid Air.