GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: arkslim45 on April 30, 2019, 09:51:14 AM
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I want to be able to eliminate large birds(crows) and small to medium pests. What measurement is used to determine this and how much is needed. I understand that without proper shot placement power is useless. Thanks
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The official method is to get the velocity via a chronograph and do the calculation with that and the pellet weight to find the energy. However, just knowing the velocity is often enough to go with (example below).
Lacking the chronograph, pieces of wood at the intended range seem to be a favorite inexpensive option, though I don't have any specs to share on that other than, for example, shooting through 3/4" plywood. Others shoot old phonebooks, magazine, wet newspaper, and so on.
As to how much power, there are charts for "how many foot-pounds to kill" whatever. With good placement, low power works on all small pests. My CFX had a broken spring for a while and still slayed squirrels at 20 yards with just about 7 or 8 ft-lbs at the muzzle with medium weight .177 wad cutters (around 650 FPS). For larger pests, it gets trickier. For example, one lady took out a bear with a 22 rifle. She was an awesome shot and knew what she was doing too. The bear skull is in a museum somewhere. I was just looking at a video of a guy that killed a coyote, "dead right there", with 14 ft-lb .177 shot. That kicked up some discussion of the ethics of even attempting the shot, but for all your birds and smallish rodents that wouldn't be a problem.
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The proper way to go about it would be to compute the energy your pellets are carrying at the range you intend to fire over. You should be looking for around 9 ft lbs minimum on target for crow and rabbits.
Here's a more practical test, fill one of those 3 lb metal coffee cans with water and place it at your chosen distance, marking a 1" diameter circle on it. If can you consistently land all your shots in that circle at your chosen range and the pellet has enough energy to go clean through the can when full of water, you should be good to go.
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To be honest the R7 in .177 is quite deadly and quiet.
It's only limitation is range and range is always something we can alter with a little walking or hiking or scouting. In this way I look at my R7 as a tiny but deadly gun. I know it can kill anything I'd have a reason to kill.
Then, on the other hand, I do know when I "feel better" about power in an air rifle of any type going after vermin. Here's where the HW50's come in to tell the R7, "We are leaving you home because we have your accuracy, your mechanics, and your craftsmanship with an added boost of power!".
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Google Air Guns of Arizona FPE calculator. Enter FPS and pellet weight and it'll give you FPE.
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The proper way to go about it would be to compute the energy your pellets are carrying at the range you intend to fire over. You should be looking for around 9 ft lbs minimum on target for crow and rabbits.
Here's a more practical test, fill one of those 3 lb metal coffee cans with water and place it at your chosen distance, marking a 1" diameter circle on it. If can you consistently land all your shots in that circle at your chosen range and the pellet has enough energy to go clean through the can when full of water, you should be good to go.
Rabbits need about 4.5 FPE to penetrate the skull. 6 FPE kills them instantly with an accurate head or heart shot. 9 FPE will absolute kill them deader than dead, and I err on the side of "overkill", so Jack's comments above are perfect guidelines.
Squirrels take 6 FPE at the skull, 8 in the body unless you score a clean heart shot. I only aim for squirrel heads.
Birds typically take less power than rodents. I have taken several birds with my P-17 putting out about 4.5 FPE. Larger birds such as crow are fairly durable and I concur with the 9 FPE range, though I'd be inclined to go with 12 FPE with any airgun minimum unless you know 100% you will hit your prey with precision in a lethal location. My 10FPE CZ-634 has claimed a number of squirrel in this manner, but again, it is above the 6 FPE range.
I'll add I've spent way too much time shooting dead carcasses to test penetration/power, as well as stripping the "meat" off squirrel bodies and testing penetration on their skulls. A domed pellet is my least favorite pellet for pesting in lower-power airguns. Hollow-points and wadcutters, as well as Polymag-style pellets all perform admirably. In fact, wadcutters get my vote the most at short range (25 yards or less) pesting in airguns at 12 FPE or less. Domes are the champ at longer ranges though, and with good placement are as lethal as anything else.
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Just my thoughts on this, I have over the yrs dispatched hundreds of Crows and Pigeons and small pests squirrels {etc} with various air guns and calibers, it all depends on distance, if u want a good all around 50 to 60yd and less rifle for the task a good .22cal rifle in the 12 to 14ftlb range has plenty of power for that, even a good .177cal with heavier pellets for longer shots, most of the Crows and Pigeons I have taken were with an HW95 in .22cal that shot CPHP's @ 639fps it was good out to 60yds, I also used a BSA Lightning U.K. made gun, that shot the same pellets @665fps and my Cometa Fenix 400 compact that aved 739fps with the Corsman 14.3gn HP's, my Cometa was capable of easy 75 to 80yds shots on Pigeons and would drop them right off their perch! all of these rifle I have mentioned were .22cal and very affective for taking pest birds and small game, if u want a smallish rifle in the 12lb range a HW50 in .22cal would be a good choice, mine shoots 11.9ftlbs with 14.66 H&N FTT's, I would have no problem using this rifle on said usage out to 60yds, because I do! and its just as effective as a more powerful AG @ this distance, just my thoughts on power ;)
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Appreciate all the reply's but I got into the wrong forum I have a 1377 but the information should apply THANKs AGAIN
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A stock 1377 wont be good for much except maybe a very close, excellently placed shot on very small game, mice, maybe a small squirrel.
Still the chances of wounding rather than killing them outright are pretty high.
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A stock 1377 wont be good for much except maybe a very close, excellently placed shot on very small game, mice, maybe a small squirrel.
Still the chances of wounding rather than killing them outright are pretty high.
Tom
I have used my stock 1377 to hunt small game with at close range. ;D
This is not my only posting in the hunting gate with a stock 1377. ;)
This is a 1337 hunting posting of mine from the Hunting Gate > https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=132523.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=132523.0)
Best Wishes - Tom
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Like I said, at close range with a well placed shot.
Personally I do not have enough confidence in my skill set to even try it :D
Now put the Bandit in my hand and that's another story ;)
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Like I said, at close range with a well placed shot.
Personally I do not have enough confidence in my skill set to even try it :D
Now put the Bandit in my hand and that's another story ;)
Tom
I had never hunted with an air pistol before I got the one in the posting. :-\
That was my first squirrel with an air pistol...ever. ;D
I now have 2 1377 pistols that I practice and hunt with. :D
From 0 to 15 yards the pistols are good to go and so am I..now. :)
Mostly I hunt with my rifles though. ;)
Best Wishes - Tom
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A stock 1377 wont be good for much except maybe a very close, excellently placed shot on very small game, mice, maybe a small squirrel.
Still the chances of wounding rather than killing them outright are pretty high.
A bonestock-innards 1377 with a barrel 14.1 inches or longer will flat-out kill any squirrel, rabbit, pideon, or crow at distances up to 30 yards with fusebox/headshots. It can take rabbits and pigeons out a good bit further at 10 pumps. My brother in law used my 1337 with a stock barrel and the stock sites to rid himself of a rabbit and HOSP problem- open sights to 40 yards, upwards of a thousand sparrows and in the neighborhood of seventy rabbits.
Pellet choice matters in these regards. I'm not a good-enough shot with my 1377 in stock form. Currently it is graced with a steel breech, a Simmons 4x, Maximus barrel and the 1399 carbine stock, though, and all those extra inches of barrel really help. I stick to JSB Heavies for squirrels in the 1377 now, for birds I use wadcutters (RWS Meisterkugeln).
Tommy- nice to see you playing with those pumpers. I recommend a longer barrel and the carbine stock/steel breech to really explore what these little pumpers are capable of. I modified a MK4-177 pumper barrel for use on my 1377 (barrel cut to 12") and it was eye-opening how accurate it could be despite being a featherweight pumper. Now it's on 1740 pistol with an aluminum breech, and it too loves RWS wadcutters.
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I too have done a few squirrels and chipmunks with a stock 1377. The limiting factor has usually been range: the peep sight it harder to use accurately past about 10 yards. I thought about modding it, but realized by the time I bought a new barrel and what not I could just get the 2100 instead.
But speaking of low power, I was recently resealing the .22 Daisy multipump that I borrowed when I first started after the squirrels. My first 50 or so squirrels were taken with this and it didn't take long back then to figure out it was limited. I tested a body shot on a fresh dead squirrel: the pellet bounced of the back of the abdomen. That makes sense--that is thicker hide back there. But neck, head and even some chest shots were another story. I usually got my squirrel if it was 20 yards or less. Past that you could probably blame the newbie shooter and his crummy 4x scope (and it was crummy!!). Or the fact that this rifle had nothing done to it--not even the tape mod!
Anyway, how low was the power? After fixing the seals, I ran some pellets over the chrony: about 440 FPS or less at 10 pumps! That works out to about 5.5 to 6 ft-lbs, depending on the pellet.
These days it sports a better scope and I'm interested to see what it can do now that the seals are done.