GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: UlteriorModem on April 27, 2019, 08:35:07 PM
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I was shooting the Gauntlet some today at 33yards and it was doing great as always. But, I ran out of a tin of JSB Heavy. Not to fear I had a brand new tin!
Chambered a pellet from the new tin, took a shot, and "What the heck?" it was an inch to the left and about 1/2" high. Took another shot to be sure, pretty much same spot.
I went and grabbed the double bags just to make sure it was not just me, same results.
So I zeroed the scope (again) and it went back to shooting tight groups of 1 inch or better.
Same Pellet, just a different tin, heck even the bar codes are the same!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32774005497_07040b4dc9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RW8m1i)20190427_183024 (https://flic.kr/p/RW8m1i) by Tom Whit (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152306872@N04/), on Flickr
The 'new' tin is on the right.
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Possibly stamped out of a different die, on a different day, or after more wear on the same die. If you want to have really consistent shots you should try to get pellets in tins all created on the same die at about the same time. Crosman used to identify batches on their boxed pellets - maybe they still do. Unless you get into match grade pellets you are not likely to see that degree of care.
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That is all very true :) Thanks!
I was just surprised at how such a minor change in the pellet or lot can have such an big change.
Not complaining, a few clicks on the scope and it was all good.
Wish I had a few of the first tin to compare to the second tin, but, well there all in the pellet trap :P
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https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/what-jsb/ (https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/what-jsb/)
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I would invite you to compare the skirts (especially thickness) and share your findings.
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https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/what-jsb/ (https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/what-jsb/)
Interesting, though he complains of poor workmanship and grouping. I don't have issues with either. They group quite well actually.
I remembered I had a few of the previous batch that were set aside to try pellet lube (it did not work out) but I was able to compare the two lots.
They were quite similar both lots had the same head size of just over 5.5 around 5.51 to 5.52 (measured with a pellet gauge). The new batch was ever so slightly heavier weighing in at 18.1 to 18.4 grains, while the previous batch weighed 18.06 to 18.1 grains.
A side by side visual inspection I did not see any apparent differences. The only difference is that the older pellets have a slightly more apparent seam line on them. Skirts are identical.
So maybe it was not the pellets after all ::)
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Out of courosity what gun are you shooting?
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Out of courosity what gun are you shooting?
I was shooting the Gauntlet some today at 33yards
;D
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it looks like the importer for the usa region removes the details about sub-caliber for the pellets.
Normally in the EU when you buy 5.5 mm pellets you choose specific sub--caliber in the shop eg:
5.51 https://kolba.pl/product/2340,srut-diabolo-jsb-exact-jumbo-5-51-250 (https://kolba.pl/product/2340,srut-diabolo-jsb-exact-jumbo-5-51-250)
5.52 https://kolba.pl/product/2352,srut-diabolo-jsb-exact-jumbo-5-52-250 (https://kolba.pl/product/2352,srut-diabolo-jsb-exact-jumbo-5-52-250) etc
JSB puts the labels on the back so people knows which sub-cal they get http://i67.tinypic.com/qs625z.jpg (http://i67.tinypic.com/qs625z.jpg)
Some guys when they find best subcaliber for the barrel eg: 4.53 they test many different batches in that subcaliber to find the "holy grail" - the best batch with best accuracy and they call all shops around to get as much boxes of that specific pellets ;D
When the best batch is gone and you cant get it on the market people are looking for the new "holy grail" from new production because JSB changes slightly shapes and weight, thats why the labels on the back are so important
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I believe the white label with the bar code is placed over the batch # and sub caliber by resellers here in the states to allow for better inventory control/revenue purposes. It would be nice if they did not cover the manufactures labels. Try carefully pealing that bar code label off to see if the batch/caliber label is underneath it.
Mike
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I peeled the label off the back of a tin and there was nothing underneath.
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Well that is no good, so how do you know the true size of the pellets other than measuring which to me is a PITA for sure.
Mike
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there are 3 importers in the usa and one in canada, http://www.schulzdiabolo.cz/en/list-of-distributors//severniamerika/ (http://www.schulzdiabolo.cz/en/list-of-distributors//severniamerika/)
I have a feeling that the other importers doest remove the labeling, it might be worth to change the supplier
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I got the tins from Pyramid Air. Where they got them from who knows.
BTW aside from the POA change the 'new' tin is very consistant and groups very well. I dont think I have had a flyer out of it yet!
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it looks like the importer for the usa region removes the details about sub-caliber for the pellets.
Normally in the EU when you buy 5.5 mm pellets you choose specific sub--caliber in the shop eg:
5.51 https://kolba.pl/product/2340,srut-diabolo-jsb-exact-jumbo-5-51-250 (https://kolba.pl/product/2340,srut-diabolo-jsb-exact-jumbo-5-51-250)
5.52 https://kolba.pl/product/2352,srut-diabolo-jsb-exact-jumbo-5-52-250 (https://kolba.pl/product/2352,srut-diabolo-jsb-exact-jumbo-5-52-250) etc
JSB puts the labels on the back so people knows which sub-cal they get http://i67.tinypic.com/qs625z.jpg (http://i67.tinypic.com/qs625z.jpg)
Some guys when they find best subcaliber for the barrel eg: 4.53 they test many different batches in that subcaliber to find the "holy grail" - the best batch with best accuracy and they call all shops around to get as much boxes of that specific pellets ;D
When the best batch is gone and you cant get it on the market people are looking for the new "holy grail" from new production because JSB changes slightly shapes and weight, thats why the labels on the back are so important
I have no experience with JSB .22 cal pellets but with the .177 JSB Exacts the label on the tins had no resemblance to the pellet head sizes! Matter of fact, I had a tin of Exacts labeled 4.50 and it had pellets with heads larger than the tins labelled 4.52mm and visa versa..........
(https://i.imgur.com/5vGMBDxl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/udeSRarl.jpg)
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Yea I found that the sizes stated on JSB tins are not close to what's actually inside the tin, very poor QC in recent times. I have found that air arms are more consistent and closer to indicated sizes than JSB. I have switched to H&N pellets mostly now as they still seem to be sized as indicated on tins much better hence better QC at this time.
Just my .2 cents.
Mike
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JSB has definitely changed something. I've shot tens of thousands of their 15.89gr round head pellets through my D34 without much problems until the last order of tins (500ct). The heads on these are larger than all I've had in the past. The older pellets just dropped right into my breech requiring a light finger press to get the skirt flush. The new ones, the head sticks right away and must be forced into the barrel. This has caused a 20fps drop in velocity and makes it difficult to use a pellet pen as I always have used. I've got 6 tins that I don't even want to use. I still have 3 tins of 250ct that are fine. Pondering whether to try another order or switch to another manufacturer.
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Yea I found that the sizes stated on JSB tins are not close to what's actually inside the tin, very poor QC in recent times. I have found that air arms are more consistent and closer to indicated sizes than JSB. I have switched to H&N pellets mostly now as they still seem to be sized as indicated on tins much better hence better QC at this time.
Just my .2 cents.
Mike
I also found the 4.52mm Air arms domes considerably closer to listed size and more consistent than 4.52mm JSB Exacts. The last 4 tins of 4.52mm AA dome pellet heads measured 4.51mm on my digital caliper (probably simply a matter of caliper round off). Just for grins I ran the 4 tins of 4.52mm AA domes through my home made pellet head sizer that reduces my CPL pellet heads to 4.50mm and all but a few were actually sized a bit. I did have one dented tin which included a few pellets with "squished skirts" but most all other pellets were good........
(https://i.imgur.com/pYH35msl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/5HDvh8Wl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/OiGAzMnl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/dhnR9zOl.jpg)
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"I have found that air arms are more consistent and closer to indicated sizes than JSB."
As far as I know JSB also produces pellets for the AA.
The most consistent pellets are sold to the UK and the rest is sold in JSB tins.
"I've got 6 tins that I don't even want to use."
sell them on ebay, just mention that they are slightly tighter and people with loose barrels would be happy to buy them.
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That is all very true :) Thanks!
I was just surprised at how such a minor change in the pellet or lot can have such an big change.
Frankly, I am more than surprised. I have NEVER seen such with any of my guns or with any pellet.
I don't usually een get that much of a poi shift with a different brand and weight pellet altogether.
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Yea I found that the sizes stated on JSB tins are not close to what's actually inside the tin, very poor QC in recent times. I have found that air arms are more consistent and closer to indicated sizes than JSB. I have switched to H&N pellets mostly now as they still seem to be sized as indicated on tins much better hence better QC at this time.
Just my .2 cents.
Mike
I am glad to know it's not just me then! I thought I was noticing a difference with JSB and my FWB124 (not a huge, but at least noticeable) in accuracy with a newer tin, but thought my shooting was just off from my usual.
That's the only pellet I've used in her since I bought her about 7 years ago, and had noticed what seemed like a change in shooting, but it should not be anywhere NEAR time for a tune.
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Well this has turned out to be an enlightening thread after all :D
Yea I found that the sizes stated on JSB tins are not close to what's actually inside the tin, very poor QC in recent times. I have found that air arms are more consistent and closer to indicated sizes than JSB. I have switched to H&N pellets mostly now as they still seem to be sized as indicated on tins much better hence better QC at this time.
Just my .2 cents.
Mike
I also found the 4.52mm Air arms domes considerably closer to listed size and more consistent than 4.52mm JSB Exacts. The last 4 tins of 4.52mm AA dome pellet heads measured 4.51mm on my digital caliper (probably simply a matter of caliper round off). Just for grins I ran the 4 tins of 4.52mm AA domes through my home made pellet head sizer that reduces my CPL pellet heads to 4.50mm and all but a few were actually sized a bit. I did have one dented tin which included a few pellets with "squished skirts" but most all other pellets were good........
(https://i.imgur.com/pYH35msl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/5HDvh8Wl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/OiGAzMnl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/dhnR9zOl.jpg)
My Gauntlet loves the AA field diabolo heavys, but there in short supply at the moment for whatever reason.
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Its at the point with me that if AA makes the same pellet I use as JSB I will only buy the AA brand even though they are made at the JSB factory they are from dies owned by AA and seem to have better QC.
My 124 must have a tight barrel as it shoots the JSB/AA 8.44s equally as well so at least its not pellet picky at all, even like the 10.34s quite well. I have it tuned to 11.8 fpe at this time with a clean out of grease and relubed with STP after seeing the results of it in my TX tuned with one of Tony Leach's 22mm skirtless piston kits. Its very slippery and clings to all surfaces very nicely. It will be my go springer lube from now on, AKA the racer edge.
Mike