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All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Projectiles => Boolit and Pellet Casting => Topic started by: Lani52 on April 17, 2019, 07:48:47 PM
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I just got off the phone with them. I told them I had to order pure lead because I could not find 40-1 nuggets, I saw pure lead nuggets, I ordered 1 lb bars as they were cheaper, but no 40-1 except those larger bars.
The gal on the phone said they are discontinuing the nuggets, I told her that was bad news as us ballet casters loved them.
She stated the machine kept breaking down, so no more nuggets of any kind after their stock runs out.
I understand how that machine broke down after years of beating those dang bars into meltable chunks with a single bladed axe and sledge hammer.
Roachcreek
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I never tried their nuggets. I can understand the appeal. The 5lb 40:1 still works. I ordered 35 lbs to meet the minimum for free shipping.
I wished I had a video recorder going to capture the USPS delivery. I sure am glad my mailbox held up. It was a small package, but 35 lbs.
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Shame, I've mostly ordered the nuggets too.
So nice to top off the pot with.
I have bought the bars before when they were on sale but then using a hand sledge and hatchet to cut them in parts is a pain.
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I never tried their nuggets. I can understand the appeal. The 5lb 40:1 still works. I ordered 35 lbs to meet the minimum for free shipping.
I wished I had a video recorder going to capture the USPS delivery. I sure am glad my mailbox held up. It was a small package, but 35 lbs.
My postmaster lets me come behind the counter to pick up my lead purchases anywhere from 25lbs to 45lbs. I had ordered tractor parts a while back and the girl dragged the parts box across the floor then it took 2 of them to pick it up and put it on the counter. I just grabbed it up like it was nothing, it weighed about 38lbs. It was an odd sized package to start with. They just open the door now and let me pick up whatever I have ordered that is to heavy for them, instead of them getting hernias trying pick up my packages.
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Too bad about the nuggets.... was a GREAT idea, especially for topping up the pot....
Bob
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Are these the nuggets? This was on their website.
https://www.rotometals.com/pure-lead-nuggets-99-9-approximately-1-pound/ (https://www.rotometals.com/pure-lead-nuggets-99-9-approximately-1-pound/)
(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-cra054/images/stencil/350x350/products/916/2438/Bulk_Nuggets__20106.1512490942.PNG)
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They do still have some pure lead nuggets, but they are .39 a pound more than the pure lead bars.
But I was told when they are gone that’s it.
I ordered the 1 lb pure lead bars because at least I don’t have to beat on they and can add a little tin to them when I need to.
Roachcreek
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Anyway that was what the sales gal told me, their machine that cuts the nuggets kept breaking down.
Roachcreek
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I've had my split pig ingot for about a year now and just started on the second half of it.
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I'll just melt the big bars down in my smelting pot and pour them into my Lee ingot mold. Extra step but you do what you have to do.
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I am hoping I misheard the gal on the phone, when I asked her about the 40-1 nuggets she definitely said no more as it broke the machine down. Whether that was the wire extruded making the wire or the devise chopping it. My hope is that she did not mean, or misspoke about pure lead nuggets, but for now the pure lead bars and popcorn flakes of tin will have to do.
When I had my 1100 yard range on my old mountain place, I used a lot of alloy for my Borschartv1878 and Shilo Sharps rifles, those big bars were not a problem. I had a plumbers propane fired furnace and a pot that held 55 lbs of alloy, I would melt the lead and then add tin, then make the ingots. My shop , in town, was big enough to park a semi with 40 trailer in and plumbed for propane. However it was desert country and the heat of 55 lbs of alloy and pouring it into my ingot molds was physically draining.
The plus side was I had a constant supply of alloy the way I wanted it.
Roachcreek
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I put two of the 5lb ingots in my Lee pot initially, which melted down just fine. I add other 5lb ingots as needed. I drained the pot into muffin pans to swap to pure lead. Now I have smaller ingots to add when needed in addition to rejects being recycled. The nuggets would be handy for topping off the pot for sure, but I go for the cheapest way out, which is the bigger bars.
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RC I just ordered a pound of tin flakes from there myself, I see the split pig ingots of pure lead are cheaper now that what I paid about a year ago.
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Now if you don’t wash rhat muffin tin before you make muffins you can save on whiskey, but your children will have two heads when born. :D
Roachcreek
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I just ordered 15 lb of pure nuggets, so they still have some . For awhile anyway
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Now if you don’t wash rhat muffin tin before you make muffins you can save on whiskey, but your children will have two heads when born. :D
Roachcreek
Only lead muffins for that pan going forward. It was an old pan that I scarfed from the kitchen ,with wife's approval, this time lol.
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I used some solid copper shot glasses that I had found soon after I joined this forum with my metal detector and I used them for the first time the other day to get the lead out of my pot that was in there.
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Is the popcorn similar in price too the nuggets? I've only bought 5 lb. bars from them.
Mike
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I got lucky and fund a huge crated full of PD range scrap from steel bullet traps. It was all .9mm and .40 cal Speer gold dot. Man, dead soft, and the plated jackets skim so easy. Wish I could have afforded more than the 200 lbs at the time.
I just bought a second otters trap. Makes recovering my pellets and slugs so easy. No picking thru like the rubber mulch was.
It has the added benefit of the cardbore for the stick on dots gets into the traps in fine little pieces of scrap cardboard. Makes for a free beginning flux for the cleaning. Normally I use cedar shavings.
Mike.
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Michael you probably go by weight when you add tin to a mix by weight don't you? like 1 gram to a 100 grams for 1% tin ???
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Michael you probably go by weight when you add tin to a mix by weight don't you? like 1 gram to a 100 grams for 1% tin ???
No Wayne, I mix 1/2 lb of tin to 20 lbs of lead tin. I mix it by the pot.
I am completely out of pure lead, and have been for well over a year. Guess it is time to get a couple hundred lbs. ;D
However, as I recover most of my lead on my range, I just remelt and cast.
Mike
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Michael I think what I'll do when I mix mine is ad the flakes to a full pot of pure lead then, I'll try doing approximately 1% tin to begin with to see how they turn out.
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Michael I think what I'll do when I mix mine is ad the flakes to a full pot of pure lead then, I'll try doing approximately 1% tin to begin with to see how they turn out.
I have been using 1.5% Tin for all of my cast bullets and now pellets with the exception of BP round balls which was 100% lead. A good source of Tin was Thrift Shop Pewter (95% tin + 5% junk) and 50/50 solder which I had a large roll of. I would use 30 ounces of Lead with 1 ounces of solder(.5 OZ of Tin). I have never casted with 40:1 (2.5%) because 1.5% worked for me.
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Wayne, nice, I have heard of lead shot but I've never seen it.
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Michael I think what I'll do when I mix mine is ad the flakes to a full pot of pure lead then, I'll try doing approximately 1% tin to begin with to see how they turn out.
I have been using 1.5% Tin for all of my cast bullets and now pellets with the exception of BP round balls which was 100% lead. A good source of Tin was Thrift Shop Pewter (95% tin + 5% junk) and 50/50 solder which I had a large roll of. I would use 30 ounces of Lead with 1 ounces of solder(.5 OZ of Tin). I have never casted with 40:1 (2.5%) because 1.5% worked for me.
Wait a minute here, 30 ox to 1 ox is 30-1 which is higher tin than 40-1. Not lower.
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Hunter, the lead shot that Roto is showing is what "They" call lead nuggets. this is not shot. Not what caster call lead shot.
Real lead shot, or what is used by casters and has been for well over a century is real lead shot. As in Lead shot for shot guns. Usually sold in 25 lb bags, but has become ridiculously expensive in recent years.
Many casters to add hardness would add # 7 1/2 chill shot to the pot. works well. ;)
When a shotshell reloader orders a bag of shot, it is the 25 lb to 50 lb bags of the shot size they want. You sure would not want to use what Roto is selling for actual shot. Talk about a wild flight pattern. LOL
Their nuggets are cut sections. where as actual shot is dropped melted, from a good height called a shot tower, into a cooling tank and forms the shot spheres.
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Thanks Michael.
30 to 1, but the 1 is 50% lead, 50% tin.
That's 30.5 to .5. So it's like 1.6% tin.
Those shots were big !
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I used a 22 gram chunk of tin to about 3lbs of lead, I figure it was probably a tad over 1%. The pellets came out wrinkle free and about the same weight, I still got more rejects than I should have, I haven't gone for a round two with the tin. I shot a red squirrel and a chipmunk today with them and I'd say the accuracy is about the same . . . . excellent !!!! They sure look prettier with the tin though ;D
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I'll bet the pure lead disipates heat in the mold slower than the tin mix.
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Wayne from what I have read the tin starts losing it's ability to help fill out once temp start getting over about 750*f...
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I need to get me a pot that I can adjust cause mine is single heat. Ebay has good deals on them.
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I'm sure that you already know this, but The tin lowers the melting point of the mixture.
The melting point of tin is
449.5°F 231.9°C.
The melting point of lead is
621.4°F 327.5°C.
The lowest melting point of tin / lead is 361F, that is 63% tin / 37% lead.
The wierd part is that the melting point of tin/lead ( solder ) is lower than either of the two metals it's made from.
Just 2% tin lowers the melting point 10 to 20 degrees Fahrenheit.
I did find a chart at:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.technic.com/sites/default/files/resources/Solder%2520Alloy%2520Melting%2520Temperature.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjT2b-y7OThAhUwgK0KHcNjBoEQFjAbegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3FsjWvmQIup7xIyMPsHoyN (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.technic.com/sites/default/files/resources/Solder%2520Alloy%2520Melting%2520Temperature.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjT2b-y7OThAhUwgK0KHcNjBoEQFjAbegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3FsjWvmQIup7xIyMPsHoyN)
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A lot of the temperature we use has more to do with keeping the molds hot enough than the melting point of the alloy.
Is the mold cast iron, brass, aluminium?
How big/thick a block is it for it's heat sink?
How many cavities so filling vs cooling duration on filled n empty cavities.
How big are the cavities/calibur so how much molten lead volume is there to add heat.
Casting rate
Local environment of a hot room or day vs a cold room or day.
Those variables mean you have to use a different pot temp to match the conditions.
A little tin still helps fill out at 850 (you have to cap the melt to keep all the oxygen away so the tin will not be removed by oxidization at that temp) vs pure lead
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The oxygen is a real issue. When using tin, at higher heat, I put borax or Frankford Arsenal powder on top, and don't stir it in as it forms a tight cap on it.
A fellow over on Cast Boolits makes a run of lids for out pots from time to time. I finally got one a few months ago. Makes a huge difference. A side benefit is the lack of air cooling. With pure lead, I can get another 125 F in the melt using the lid.
Knife